Re: 4x21 "Wonder-ful" Watch & Discussion thread

[Glorfindel]

^Yes, they managed to get at least something right and realistic. I bet they asked Glee's vocal coach for a good ~teaching moment.

Kurt begins the episode nervously counting down the days until Burt’s final cancer treatment appointment. I’ve been opposed to this story line since its inception, simply because I don’t believe that it’s necessary to insert capital-D drama into Kurt and Burt’s relationship. Their interactions have always had high emotional stakes simply because of the chemistry between the actors who play them; while the cancer is maybe a means to, say, Kurt and Blaine holding hands again for the first time (after Blaine tells Kurt he looks “dirty-cute”), I’m not convinced that prostate cancer was the best way to get them there. After the school “shooting” episode, I’m hypersensitive to Glee’s cavalier emotional manipulation.


Don’t get me wrong, I’m thrilled that Burt’s not going to die, and I’ll never turn down a Burt/Kurt/Carole scene, but it’s clear that Ryan Murphy never intended to kill Burt off in the first place. Couldn’t Kurt and Burt (and Blaine) have hit some of the exact same emotional notes simply because they love each other and because they’ve missed each other while Kurt is away from home for the very first time? Kurt celebrates his father’s remission by singing “You Are the Sunshine of My Life,” and while I’ll reiterate that there are other ways to build in a tribute to the love these two share, it’s important to give a massive shout-out to Chis Colfer’s vocal range, and it’s great to have another Kurt solo. There have been, like, two this season, and that’s a crime.

Vulture

[Kurt Hummel]

I really liked the episode. One of my favorite parts was definitely Kurt's solo.

[fantastica]

marie, i am looking forward to your assignment now that kurt has sung again. you need to deliver the song review in 45.6 hours.

is this the lowest song he's ever sung? thought he hit the lowest note(s) here. not counting the Funk song because it wasn't really singing.

[Ireth]

While I was watching the episode, I enjoyed it, but was still very wary. Now that I know nothing upsetting really occurs, I am looking back on it even more fondly.

I think YATSOML contains his lowest notes after Give Up The Funk? How about Pink Houses?

[Glorfindel]

^YATSOML is lower than 'Pink Houses', which lowest note was an Fsharp3, whereas the lowest note of YATSOML is a Dsharp3, 2 notes lower.


Help me out, gals. I've been reading (on other boards) that Kurt was "flirty" during this episode, "leading Blaine on", "giving him mixed signals" and "Kurt was hoping Blaine would propose". But I didn't see any of this?

- In the hallway scene Kurt was looking at Blaine and admitting he still had feelings for him, but at the same time he also said they were not hooking up this time, and that it was less weird seeing Blaine again than it was before and he didn't know if that was making him sad or not. That doesn't sound like Kurt being in a mindset to flirt with Blaine, does it?
- At the Lima Bean Blaine made a tacky sexy compliment at Kurt, but Kurt's face was like: "Pleez, really?". He was a heartbeat away from rolling his eyes. Then when their relationship was brought up he angrily shut everyone down because he was worried about his father and "this doesn't matter". Yes, Kurt allowed Blaine to hold his hand, but that was after Mercedes was already holding his other hand. I saw friends being supportive, not Klaine "eye-fucking" (ugh).
- During YATSOML Kurt was only looking at Burt, he did not give any glance at Blaine, nor during all the other choir room scenes. During the final song (in the auditorium) Kurt even danced away from Blaine!
- When Blaine wanted to ask Kurt a question Kurt was kind and even called Blaine cute, but I saw no romantic vibes at all. Kurt leaned in closer, wide-eyed, when Blaine was hesitating, but I didn't see that as Kurt being excited about a possible proposal or suggestion to get back together. I saw it as Kurt urging/edging Blaine to go on, to stop stalling, like you do with a child or someone who's taking a (too) long time to get to the point. And Kurt didn't react excited because he could spend more time with Blaine: he had already talked to Mercedes about it and was already planning to stay for Regionals. The arm hold while they were walking away was friendly (familiar), but nothing more.

What I saw in 4x21 was Kurt clearly friendzoning Blaine, and certainly not flirting. But that's what I'm reading (by Klainers of course).
And I'm willing to bet that if it turns out that Kurt still is dating Adam in 4x22, the Klainers will accuse Kurt of being dishonest and 'cheating', aka being a ruthless flirt and OMG such a bad, bad bf to both Adam and Blaine?

[arina]

I read very different and completely opposite interpretations too (similar to the "I do" episode). (Of course some people also criticized Chris's acting choices in the episode because he did not played Kurt excited enough. I personally saw it very simalarly to you, Marie, but what we were really supposed to take from it or if it it was supposed to be ambiguous who knows... but I am definitely ready for Kurt's hate next week.

[valkeakuulas]

Firstly what I saw was a very tired and stressed Kurt, not any way connected to anyone. Not even to Mercedes at some level.

I know how Kurt's monologue at the hallway may be confusing for someone who desperately wants Klaine back together. Blaine was shown in a single shot by himself after Kurt had mentioned him specifically, had there been other ND members present maybe the effect wouldn't have been so big. The voice over was telling me that Blaine was mentioned because he had more important role in Kurt's life out all the kids in McKinley and that he was free to think about Blaine as more than that of an ex, ie. very good friend.

Lima Bean scene for me wasn't even close to flirting or leading anyone on. Kurt didn't even look at Blaine before he took his hand, which I tend to also do if someone grabs my hand. Blaine complimenting Kurt "sexually" just, unfortunately, ment for me that Blaine was perhaps out for a repraisal from the wedding hook-up. I am strongly on the camp that Blaine will go for physical intimacy when ever there is a chance and I'm again saying this without trying to make Blaine look bad. Some guys compliment girls/boys to get into their pants, Blaine just did it at the wrong time because he's a tool.

Which is one of the reasons I don't understand this proposal, my Blaine head canon would say that he'd be more than willing to get to know this new Kurt he met at the wedding who perhaps is ready for a intimate liason without the relationship...unless Blaine is seriously considering Kurt as his property. (I could go on about that forever, but it's more S&B)

Funnily for me during Supersticious and the last number I saw Kurt backing away from Blaine as well. Unless it's a sign of some sort of "play": come and get me! it wasn't flirty at all.

I've also seen the interpritations where they say Kurt was ready to be asked out in the hallway scene and that is just a matter of what you wished for. There is no way to say what was Kurt thinking besides the fact that he was relatively happy about staying in Lima, not because of Blaine but because he had just had the good news about his dad and getting to see the group he had a part in training, perform. Kurt was sort of flowting on air and happy about everything. I do believe he still has some sort of dating status with Adam in NY so I didn't see him waiting for Blaine to ask anything personal. Although I was worried Blaine was going to blurt out some sort of hint about the ring stuff, but that has nothing to do with Kurt at the moment.

[AnneNeville]

Which is one of the reasons I don't understand this proposal, my Blaine head canon would say that he'd be more than willing to get to know this new Kurt he met at the wedding who perhaps is ready for a intimate liason without the relationship...unless Blaine is seriously considering Kurt as his property. (I could go on about that forever, but it's more S&B)

about Kurt as Blaine's property.

I've also seen the interpritations where they say Kurt was ready to be asked out in the hallway scene and that is just a matter of what you wished for. There is no way to say what was Kurt thinking besides the fact that he was relatively happy about staying in Lima, not because of Blaine but because he had just had the good news about his dad and getting to see the group he had a part in training, perform. Kurt was sort of flowting on air and happy about everything. I do believe he still has some sort of dating status with Adam in NY so I didn't see him waiting for Blaine to ask anything personal. Although I was worried Blaine was going to blurt out some sort of hint about the ring stuff, but that has nothing to do with Kurt at the moment.

I've seen a number of people saying he was expecting Blaine to propose in that moment and was disappointed that he *didn't*. Which confuses me. Because we know Blaine's idea, Kurt doesn't.

[Glorfindel]

Thanks for your input on the matter.
I personally think Chris played Kurt's emotions/feelings very clearly, not ambigious at all, but I guess people (esp. shippers) see what they want to see. Plus Glee has a tendency to muddle the waters and put unclear signals in the script. IMO Chris deliberately acted it as Kurt clearly friendzoning Blaine (with keeping his eyes constantly downwards and averted from Blaine unless being prompted directly by Blaine), but who knows?

I still can't believe that some people think that 'Come What May' was purely romantic, when it was so obvious that Kurt was hurting in that scene.

[AnneNeville]

Thanks for your input on the matter.
I personally think Chris played Kurt's emotions/feelings very clearly, not ambigious at all, but I guess people (esp. shippers) see what they want to see. Plus Glee has a tendency to muddle the waters and put unclear signals in the script. IMO Chris deliberately acted it as Kurt clearly friendzoning Blaine (with keeping his eyes constantly downwards and averted from Blaine unless being prompted directly by Blaine), but who knows?

I still can't believe that some people think that 'Come What May' was purely romantic, when it was so obvious that Kurt was hurting in that scene.

The do. I made an epic meta post about the hand-holding (and only that part) yesterday that has been making the rounds on Tumblr. Between that and the gifs I started showing Kurt's "so done with it look" when Blaine called him "dirty cute," I turned off anonymous asks to avoid abuse. I got two good questions, but they show how Klaine fans justify things, even when they are somewhat persuaded by the argument:

Q:I saw your opinion about klaine holding hands. I recognized the differences as well. But I am trying to offer another reason why kurt somehow rejecting blaine's holding hand. What if- kurt don't want to hold blaine's hand because kurt don't like blaine showing sexual attraction to him when he is worrying about his father? When someone is occupied by some serious or important stuff, one don't like being annoyed by stuff like sign of sex. Could it explain Kurt's rejection? - knightly-ing

A: It is possible. However, it is also possible for someone who is attracted to another person to show affection without making it sexual.

Even if Kurt’s discomfort is based on Blaine being inappropriately sexual when Kurt is in a bad place emotionally, it still doesn’t reflect well on Blaine’s ability (or willingness) to read and respect Kurt’s wishes.

----

Q:Hello, about the hand holding, it's just Darren being Darren It kept happening you know. Darren is kind of rough toward everyone and that's that, it's he's acting choice. First time it happened in 2.06 I thought well that's weird and it happened all the time especially toward Chris and my first thought was that he and Chris didn't get along quite well. Oh and why you just meta the Lima Bean scene, why not the last hallway scene as well? - myklaineisperfect

A: Thank you for the ask.

Though I understand what you are saying, Darren being Darren doesn’t change the fact that his actions on camera take on meaning—and in this case, the roughness carried (for me) a negative connotation. I know others will read the scene differently.

The reason I focused on this little moment (and contrasted it with the gif of Adam and Kurt holding hands) is because the two gifs and three images of hand-holding offered a clear contrast. The post ended up being longer than intended. I had planned to have it be a quick bit of meta. Then, replies I received with other gifs meant I had to add more. It turned into a monster.

Perhaps I will analyze other scenes as well. It will depend on my level of energy vs. other things I ought to be attending to. I know not everyone will take to “It’s Not that [He Doesn’t] Understand …” but every once in a while it’s important (imho) to point out things that are problematic in a relationship.

As I said to knightly-ing in the ask below: Even if Kurt’s negative reaction in this one scene is only negative because Blaine is behaving inappropriately sexually when Kurt is upset, that in and of itself does not speak well of Blaine’s sensitivity, awareness, or respect for Kurt’s needs. He’s more focused on his own right then.
-----

So, basically, even if they are somewhat convinced by my argument, there are "outs" (one of which that they can even prove with pictures and gifs from earlier episodes--that Darren/Blaine often is awkward/grabs Chris/Kurt's hand in that way--even by the thumb, pointer, and middle finger).

[brisallie]

This time my perception of Kurt was that he was fine with Blaine, I think they get along well as when they were friends. But it didn't give me the vibe there's a hope they're going to be together, though eventually they probably gonna be endgame, but in this moment I think Kurt is focus on his own personal things. And if he was in town was only because his dad, and if he's seeing everybody else is because he needs some distraction and support too, but only that. However, in the hallway scene, I'm unsure how to interpret that. Because when Blaine was hesitating what he had to ask, Kurt's looking was hopeful, it was like he was expecting that Blaine was gonna ask him something more relevant than he actually asked him. Probably I'm wrong and he just tried to be nice, but is the only moment I felt confused.

[Lottie2303]

I wanted to add my opinion for a while but my brain is fried.

Basically: Yeah Kurt! Yeah Burt! Longer thought about Blaine and his storyline I'd love to elaborate and maybe one day will do. Really, really obvious Kurt friendzoned Blaine, so the second one is panicking and wants to propose. Actually sounds reasonable if it wouldn't be for various reasons. There is so no different reading of those scenes. Kurt is not romantically responding. Yeah Artie, Mercedes and Mike.

ETA. I'll be very, very inactive for a while. Keep posting all your great comments and I'll keep reading. But I have not abandoned Chris at all

[Lottie2303]

ETA: 'Dirty good' felt like RIB responding to the Adam hype when they realized 'oh shit, Blaine never complimented Kurt and now people love Adam for supporting Kurt. We have to change that NOW!".

[AnneNeville]

ETA: 'Dirty good' felt like RIB responding to the Adam hype when they realized 'oh shit, Blaine never complimented Kurt and now people love Adam for supporting Kurt. We have to change that NOW!".

Yeah, but somehow they managed to make the compliment come out insulting in two ways rather than one. Dirty=not pure. Cute=not HOT.

[brisallie]

We know that Blaine tells Kurt how cute he's all the time. But as you pointed ,since Adam started to tell him more flirty words, it seems they want to do the same with Blaine, but is not working so well. I mean, what's being "dirty cute"? For me are two words that I wouldn't have thought to put them together, probably I'd have used "dirty hot".

[Glorfindel]

I've always had a special place in my withered Grinch heart for Burt Hummel, (---) His role in "Wonder-ful" was no exception, even if his cancer storyline was one of the most pointless examples of melodrama-for-the-sake-of-melodrama to hit TV lately. Right up there with Rachel's preggo scare. Right up there.

Here is a detailed timeline of Burt's battle with the big C:

December: Burt has cancer. Because it's the Christmas episode. CRY, MINIONS. CRY.

*crickets*

May: REMISSION! LET US CELEBRATE WITH SONG!

Insightful stuff. Really.

tv.com

[fantastica]

well, what do we expect from a juvenile song and dance show?

crickets...

[Lottie2303]

So, I really need to add some more additional thoughts about the episode, while my brain is actually functioning.

Overall, I am really happy about all the Kurt focus. I loved he was allowed to show different emotions (desperate, anxious, angry, happy) and he could interact with different people. I also loved that the interjected for his friends to stop talking about non-sense as his mind was occupied by Burt. Of course it was an added bonus that it involved Blaine, but in general I was really glad Kurt was allowed to have an outburst.

I thought the OCC was a tad too much but I can handle that. The Burt/Carole/Kurt scene was amazing. It is a shame Finn couldn’t be there, as he was the last missing link. I must say the performance and cerography YATSOML was too odd. The girls looked like crazy chickens and I wasn’t fan of Kurt’s dancing. But the concept and idea of dedicating it too his father was great. I also loved it was all about Burt and it wasn’t disturbed by any crazy Blaine.

I must say, if this wasn’t Glee and Blaine wouldn’t have been in the spotlight the entire season, I’d actually like his plot now. He is getting desperate, anxious and most likely realizes that Kurt is truly friendzoning him. He is in process of accepting the relationship is over for good so he wants to do something stupid and win Kurt back. I’d like that, as long as it was very clearly implied that Klaine is over. Also I want more Kurt! But because it is Glee, Kurts POV severely got dismissed, Blaine hogging the spotlight, Darrens really decreasing acting skills (he gets worse with each episode), I do not like the idea. But at least Burt talked some very common sense, which seemed o have been a shoutout to the Klainers as well that they are ludicrous of accepting a proposal.

As I already mentioned, RIB were most likely totally shocked when people responded to Adam and they had to realize how Blaine never complimented Blaine. So obviously they had to add a scene. Funny how they listen to fan reaction when it comes to propping up Blaine… But why couldn’t he have said ‘hot’,. ‘sexy’ or ‘great’ instead of ‘dirty cute’??! WTF does that even mean? It is like a hidden insult. I loved Kurts reaction as we was clearly uncomfortable.

Overall, Kurt was so friendzoning Blaine and NOT flirting. Yes, it was left a bit ambiguous but still the intent was very clear. Also the interactions with Mercedes and Co were very clearly mirroring Blaine’s reaction. AnneNeville, I loved your analysis of the hands. It was really well written, constructed and I agree with every word.

Terrified of the next episode and just hope some ‘spoilers’ are true. At least Kurt FINALLY got some focus and nice scenes with his father and friends. Those were severely missed.

WTF with Rachel? No words for that. This special snowflake needs to stop, it is only destroying the character. It shouldn’t be the case that I am rooting against the main character. That is just very bad and stupid writing. Being in the final 3… Ugh! I hate this storyline!

[arina]

Because I've had my experience with OCD (I hope I'll never "fall" into the worse stage again, all these things "I had to" do really made my life much harder) and know people who started to have so many different rituals after something similar to Kurt's situation happened to them so I found it believable.

I agree about YATSOML, I liked the concept, but I was not big fan of Kurt's dancing or the performance either. But I personally really got used to that song and love Chris's singing on it so I am at least able to enjoy the song itself even though at first I found it really boring.

[Ireth]

^YATSOML is lower than 'Pink Houses', which lowest note was an Fsharp3, whereas the lowest note of YATSOML is a Dsharp3, 2 notes lower.


Help me out, gals. I've been reading (on other boards) that Kurt was "flirty" during this episode, "leading Blaine on", "giving him mixed signals" and "Kurt was hoping Blaine would propose". But I didn't see any of this?

- In the hallway scene Kurt was looking at Blaine and admitting he still had feelings for him, but at the same time he also said they were not hooking up this time, and that it was less weird seeing Blaine again than it was before and he didn't know if that was making him sad or not. That doesn't sound like Kurt being in a mindset to flirt with Blaine, does it?
- At the Lima Bean Blaine made a tacky sexy compliment at Kurt, but Kurt's face was like: "Pleez, really?". He was a heartbeat away from rolling his eyes. Then when their relationship was brought up he angrily shut everyone down because he was worried about his father and "this doesn't matter". Yes, Kurt allowed Blaine to hold his hand, but that was after Mercedes was already holding his other hand. I saw friends being supportive, not Klaine "eye-fucking" (ugh).
- During YATSOML Kurt was only looking at Burt, he did not give any glance at Blaine, nor during all the other choir room scenes. During the final song (in the auditorium) Kurt even danced away from Blaine!
- When Blaine wanted to ask Kurt a question Kurt was kind and even called Blaine cute, but I saw no romantic vibes at all. Kurt leaned in closer, wide-eyed, when Blaine was hesitating, but I didn't see that as Kurt being excited about a possible proposal or suggestion to get back together. I saw it as Kurt urging/edging Blaine to go on, to stop stalling, like you do with a child or someone who's taking a (too) long time to get to the point. And Kurt didn't react excited because he could spend more time with Blaine: he had already talked to Mercedes about it and was already planning to stay for Regionals. The arm hold while they were walking away was friendly (familiar), but nothing more.

What I saw in 4x21 was Kurt clearly friendzoning Blaine, and certainly not flirting. But that's what I'm reading (by Klainers of course).
And I'm willing to bet that if it turns out that Kurt still is dating Adam in 4x22, the Klainers will accuse Kurt of being dishonest and 'cheating', aka being a ruthless flirt and OMG such a bad, bad bf to both Adam and Blaine?

Thanks for the answer .

I agree with everything you said about Kurt's behaviour. Kurt may have some residual feelings for Blaine, which I think may never go away, but they can very easily be ignored or buried in daily life (which he did)...like fond memories of a first love. Kurt did say in "Thanksgiving" that Blaine was his best friend, and that's why he was happy to meet Blaine again. He didn't want to be anything more than friends with Blaine, but Blaine as the one trying to flirt with Kurt. I also think the writers intended "dirty cute" to be a creative compliment...Kurt certainly didn't appreciate it though.

By the way, I have OCD, albeit a milder form which I can keep in check myself. But when I'm stressed out, I tend to display more OCD traits, and some of them are very similar to what Kurt did. I find Kurt's "temporary OCD-ness" at this time believeable, especially as he ordinarily does seem like he could be on the perfectionist side, and a stickler for details, somewhat similar to how I am. I'm not saying he has OCD, although he very well could, but that I think he does have the tendency to develop such behaviour when under stress.

[Glorfindel]

x

[Glorfindel]

x

[brisallie]

I've always had a special place in my withered Grinch heart for Burt Hummel, (---) His role in "Wonder-ful" was no exception, even if his cancer storyline was one of the most pointless examples of melodrama-for-the-sake-of-melodrama to hit TV lately. Right up there with Rachel's preggo scare. Right up there.

Here is a detailed timeline of Burt's battle with the big C:

December: Burt has cancer. Because it's the Christmas episode. CRY, MINIONS. CRY.

*crickets*

May: REMISSION! LET US CELEBRATE WITH SONG!

Insightful stuff. Really.

tv.com

Can I be honest? For me Burt's cancer was a cheap plot that had the intention to make us feel sad, because they know perfectly well how loved is Burt, and in addition, it seems Kurt can be happy without suffereing first. But it didn't work as they wanted. And I think the reason is lack of development, in one episode they introduce the topic and tell us that Burt has cancer, but then isn't addressed until 4x21 and suddenly that cancer isn't there anymore. Why Glee like to do this?

x

Kurtcedes feelings Is so clear in those gifs what a good friendship they have.

[fantastica]

don't forget burt was a congressman. that takes about 1 scene and 2 extra lines of mention in other episodes and that was it.

[Jellyrolls]

I watched the episode when I got home from Canada this evening, and here are some of my thoughts:

The dirty cute compliment bugged me for a couple of reasons. Darren's delivery of the line sucked. There was no passion or flirtation in the line. There was nothing in the delivery that made me think Blaine finds Kurt appealing.

Also out of all the compliments the could have used, the went with dirty cute? Not hot or sexy? Why is Kurt only allowed to be cute?

YATSOML was fun and Chris was adorable in it. I loved the backstory of Burt singing it to Kurt, it solidified their relationship and showed Burt as sharing a love for music with his kid.

I am glad that Burt wasn't destroyed in the Burt and Blaine scene. I wish he didn't say the part about them being in love at the end. Up until that point, Burt had given Blaine some good advice, and he treated Blaine with the right balance of "you're crazy" and sensitivity.

Blaine was further destroyed in the scene. He really comes across as an immature petulant little brat now. Kurt can do so much better.

Darren seems to be getting worse as an actor. He was horrible in the Burt Blaine scene. His reactions were off and he really comes of as insane

The woo indication of Cassandra is silly. It seems odd that she is all of the sudden Rachel's biggest fan.

The pandering and teasing of klainers is ridiculous. Teasing with the ring box to burt and the " this is going to be difficult to ask" thing is really just playing at the klainers, as are the things in next week's previews.

That is all for now. I am too sleepy to write more

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