Re: Glee season 6 discussion and spoiler thread--Part 2

[Buenos]

The problem I have with Beistie "transitioning" is that I have no faith in the writers dealing with the subject in a sensitive manner.  Remember these are the same writers who handled the Beistie/Cooter domestic violence SL, who had Will give  Beistie her first kiss, and had her have a crush on Will.  

First of all, I hate that the notion that a tough, "masculine" seeming woman could still be all woman is torn to shreds.   So the stereotype that all butch looking women are really "men" gets reinforced.  Beistie broke convention in showing she was a woman without the frilly , uber feminine appearance but that that was OK.   It's sort of like how they had to have Blaine have a crush on Sam, ie the stereotype that the  gay man  is going to be sexually attracted to his straight male friend .

Also, until now it seems Beistie has been attracted to men.   She showed attraction to her husband Cooter, to Will himself, and even to Blaine in "I am Unicorn" per her "girl" parts.  If she is now said to be transgender, does that make her a gay male, ie attracted to men?   Or are they now saying she is man who is attracted to women, which refuted the first few years of Glee where they clearly show her having heterosexual attraction to the opposite sex.

Once again, I'm sure Dot will nail it, but I DO NOT TRUST THESE WRITERS.

Of course the usual impressionable teenage fans are already babbling how "brave" and "groundbreaking" and to be commended Glee/Ryan is for going with his storyline...  The same fans who thought the shooting in school story was so "important" and done well conveniently overlooking that it's 0 % of school shootings are committed by down syndrome kids innocently bringing guns to school that accidentally go off.

[ColferInspired]

The problem I have with Beistie "transitioning" is that I have no faith in the writers dealing with the subject in a sensitive manner.  Remember these are the same writers who handled the Beistie/Cooter domestic violence SL, who had Will give  Beistie her first kiss, and had her have a crush on Will.  

First of all, I hate that the notion that a tough, "masculine" seeming woman could still be all woman is torn to shreds.   So the stereotype that all butch looking women are really "men" gets reinforced.  Beistie broke convention in showing she was a woman without the frilly , uber feminine appearance but that that was OK.   It's sort of like how they had to have Blaine have a crush on Sam, ie the stereotype that the  gay man  is going to be sexually attracted to his straight male friend .

Also, until now it seems Beistie has been attracted to men.   She showed attraction to her husband Cooter, to Will himself, and even to Blaine in "I am Unicorn" per her "girl" parts.  If she is now said to be transgender, does that make her a gay male, ie attracted to men?   Or are they now saying she is man who is attracted to women, which refuted the first few years of Glee where they clearly show her having heterosexual attraction to the opposite sex.

Once again, I'm sure Dot will nail it, but I DO NOT TRUST THESE WRITERS.

I am so hoping they do not change her sexuality.

As this is just wrong.

Things are a bit mixed between spoilers, so I don't know if the transgender is in two episodes or not or just one.

But this story arc of Besties comes to ahead in episode 7 where the episode is called Transitioning.

[ColferInspired]

Gathering up the spoilers amid the speculation that is false, episode 7 seems to be Beiste's exit, which is what some of the guest cast meant by finale, as it is Beiste's finale.

"Hairy" as in Unique singing a song from Hairspray.

[Glorfindel]

Interesting if it's true, but it doesn't seem to fit Beistie's storylines until now.  

I agree sounds interesting, but for me is something I didn't see coming. I knew there were some jokes that Beiste was tough for a woman, but then it was showed she wasn't her image...so I don't know what to expect.

In season 2 there was this whole episode (Never Been Kissed) of Beiste wanting to be appreciated as a woman, despite her masculine looks.
Now would a transgender person who even makes the decision to transit(!) 3 years later really have been so upset with not being seen as a woman, when she must have at least thought about wanting to be a man at that time already? Don't think so. Oh Glee.

And yes, Beiste so far has been attracted to males, even protested heavily when people (Artie?, Will?) assumed she was gay. If Beiste transits then she therefore will become a gay transgender male.

But of course, with their excellent trackrecord so far, I have no doubt that Glee will handle this with the utmost care and subtlety, and RIB will do a great job to faithfully write for someone from the LGBTQIA+ community. 

Humbug, this is just Ryan Murphy's ego again, trying to hop on the popular PSA train of the moment. A rating's grab at best, but by (mis)using of the just established positive attention(by other shows, and role models like Laverne Cox) for transsexual/transgender issues.
Glee majorly dropped and squandered Unique's story (of whom we still don't know if she's transgender or a drag queen), but now the topic is hot again, so they just looked around in their Glee pool of characters which one they could squeeze into that (ill-fitting) storyline, as per usual 'writing' methods of RIB.
And of course they went for the most stereotyped candidate of all: the already very masculine Beiste.

-ETA-
This also puts Beiste's comment on Kurt for WSS ("Hummel's too much of a lady") in an even worse light.
Jeez.

[quietbelle]

This is confusing. Glee has 13 episodes only where are all these things we hear as spoilers going to fit. Are the episodes going to be 2 hours long?

The transitioning storyline fits Unique more as a character. But it is Glee so. Oh well.

Klues . Pbthhh! lol,

[Ranwing]

I cannot begin to express just how disgusted I am with this storyline, or how disrespectful it is to Dot and the character she's played for several years. Beiste was a wonderful, vulnerable, flawed woman who was deeply hurt by the fact that how she appeared on the outside didn't respect the sweet, very girly woman she was within. To now have her suddenly be transgendered throws all of that wonderful character development right into the trash, and for nothing more than shock value and trying to ride on the positive PR train that very brave people like Lauren Cox and Chaz Bono started to further understanding of transgender issues. I cannot imagine how Dot must feel that this is the way her character is exiting the show. And it's not as if the show didn't have ample chance to explore all these issues when Unique was a regular. They had some good moments (like showing her parents being supportive of her, yet terrified of the difficulties she faced in the world), but otherwise wasted her on that idiotic catfishing storyline that went absolutely nowhere. There was no need to destroy Beiste this way.

Glee, for all that it has been heralded for being so gay positive has been absolutely awful in how people who don't fit into neat, stereotypical gender norms are treated. How many times have we heard Kurt so blithely called "Lady Hummel" by people who are supposed to be his friends and supporters? Or seen him ignored or discounted in favor of his boyfriend who was more typically masculine (whether it came to being featured in performances or even just being accepted as "one of the guys"). There was that lovely moment when they were doing Rocky Horror when Schu just assumed that Kurt would be happy to play Frankenfurter just because he was gay (and then mocked by Santana about the corset being "last season" when he refused). They even had that awful moment where Sue was willing to put Kurt in a dress for a competition performance (sickeningly the only time he was really offered a lead with ND and it would have required him to humiliate himself). This pathetic storyline is just the latest example of how hypocritical Glee is.

[Divalicious]

Glee is going full scorched Earth here, obviously. Beiste has never once expressed the desire to be a man. She made sure she wore bright red lipstick in her first season to express that although she isn't pretty and petite, she is still a woman. She has never been interested in women, only dated, and married a man. So even if she is transgendered, apparently she is gay, because she still should be interested in men. The thing that is the most insulting is that it feels more like she can't score with straight guys, so she needs to become male to get action with the gay guys. That she becomes a bear?! What the hell??!

Makes the males in the Gleeverse look even worse, that they can't see beyond her form, to see a valuable mate. I see 400 pound, ill-kempt, kind of smelly people of both genders still be married at the hospital. If you want to be married, or in a relationship, there is someone out there for you. Glee is perpetuating the myth that you have to look a certain way to be acceptable. Something they were totally not about in the beginning.

I should look at this in a positive manner. There are few absolutes in the world. The sun rises from the same direction each day. If you drop something it falls. Glee continues to do things that are incomprehensible, and wonder what our problem is with that.

The 13 episodes will go even faster, I guess, each episode will take only about 7 minutes to watch.

[Ranwing]

Just for clarification - there are a good number of transgendered people who are sexually attracted to the same gender that they identify with. A female to male transgendered person may be sexually attracted to men (and vice versa).

What angers me is that there is absolutely nothing in Beiste's character that would indicate that she was all struggling with her gender identity. She has always been very much a woman. Outspokenly so. And one of the most gentle, surprisingly vulnerable women on the show (rivaling Emma in many ways) despite her outward appearance. And that she wanted to be seen as attractive as a woman by men (and anguished that she wasn't). The only way that I can see her suddenly doing a 180 like this is that maybe she thinks that her life will be easier if she does it as a man (since gay men would likely be more attracted to a butch looking guy than straight men to a butch looking woman). Either way, it cheapens the whole issue of gender identity struggles. Or the fact that most people who are transgendered recognized that they didn't fit the bodies they were born into at an extremely young age (around the time when children start recognizing that there is a difference between boys and girls).

This is going to be such an awful mess. Why the hell couldn't FOX have found their balls and just canceled Glee outright because it's obvious that no character is going to emerge intact.

[tanita_mors]

i'm sorry, did i miss a "groundbreaking" episode where beiste expressed the desire or showed ANY, and i mean ANY, sign that she wants to be a he.

[Buenos]

http://www.eonline.com/news/597867/glee-bosses-drop-scoop-on-kurt-and-blaine-s-ending?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin&dlvrit=51396

The weeks-long panic attack can come to an end, Glee fans.

Though the news that Max Adler (Dave Karofsky) would be "romantically entangled with" Blaine (Darren Criss) in the final season rattled quite a few diehard Blaine and Kurt (Chris Colfer) fans, co-creators Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuk are here to ease your trouble minds.

"It's Glee," Falchuk says with a smile. "Be happy. It's going to be OK."

NEWS: Max Adler returning to Glee

"You have to have obstacles to have a happy ending," Murphy explains. "I've spent a year learning what they want. We have a list in the writers' room that says, ‘What do the fans want to end that show?' And our endings are all very uplifting, and I think by the end of it, people will be ecstatic and really thrilled by how things turn out. I am."

Glee is slated to return for its final run of 13 episodes in 2015, and Adler will return for at least four of those episodes. Also slated to reappear as guest stars: Heather Morris, Naya Rivera, Dianna Agron and Mark Salling, among others.

PHOTOS: All the Glee casting shake-ups over the years

As for the outcry over Karofsky returning, Falchuk admits, "I have a lot of angry tweets. But look, it's a new season and we're exploring some stuff. We love Kurt. We love Blaine. We love them together. We love them apart. We love them all kids of ways. And I think that their relationship is a really great place to explore some more complicated stories. Really, it's going to be OK."

Falchuk also reveals that the writers have come up with what the very last scene for Glee will be. (The original idea involved Cory Monteith's Finn and Lea Michele's Rachel.)

"Yeah, I think we've got it."

[valkeakuulas]

Just like many of you guys have said: it would be quite a streach to write Beiste wanting to change her gender. I also never saw that in her behaviour at all. Woman all the way, and a proud one as well. Sure she was insecure at times, but that doesn't equal to gender confusion.

I guess they must now just find all the outrageous storylines hilarious (and not the feel-good-outrageous ones) , and see them worth taking a shot at.

This now makes me seriously worried for any Kurt storyline, because even if they only have 13 eps...it's plenty of time to throw his character down the drain. Make him so camp, silly and stupid that even Chris cannot correct the memory many are left with this last season.

I so wish no one doing major casting is watching Glee in its last season if they do decide to go with a flash and burn. There are few in the cast that I still wish to get good acting jobs after this shitfest.

[valkeakuulas]

Oh, they just love everything don't they. Even Kurt! *shocked* Brad! You love even Kurt!  

And btw, a writer that uses so many stupid, singular emotion adjectives like Murphy does (if he really said those comments and not some silly intern)...no wonder he can  no longer sustain any coherent strain of thought.

[ChrisColferFan1]

The more I read/hear about the spoilers  for the  last season  the less chance I will watch  the final season at all.

[ChrisColferFan1]

They should know Ryan ,Brand ect should know not every Glee fan is a Klainer  I was never much of a Klainer ,but did not really dislike it until the car scene  in the 1st time. In fact up until then I kind of like Blaine. I really wish Kurt would have ended things with Blaine after that scene.If I wrote owned Glee he would have.

[Buenos]

I think this is from one of the transgender extras last night.

[Glorfindel]

Lo and behold!!! All men rejoice!!! The Glee Gods have spoken:

"IT'S GOING TO BE OKAY".

They love Blaine (wow, quelle surprise), they love Kurt, they love Klaine, they love everybody!
Praise Ryan and Brad!   


Klaine's endgame love is in such a great place that they can even take the "complicated story" of one of them jumping from his soulmate relationship into living together with his soulmate's old bully for months, and then happily go on with the wedding mere weeks after Blainofsky break up.

GLAAD: roll out your red carpet and polish your awards: Glee is so revolutionary for the LGBTQIA+ community they will be collecting them by the dozen next year.



But lol: Glee felt the need to send out Ryan and Brad personally to placate the Klainers this time, the only Glee fangroup RIB believe are still even watching the show (and to be fair: with the way season 6 is going to be by the looks of the spoilers they're probably right).

[Ranwing]

Let's be honest... did anyone really think that they would allow the show to end without Kurt permanently welded to Blaine's side? Even if there isn't a kledding on air, they're going to end the show with the two of them back together. It's an absolute given, so I refuse to get myself worked up over it.

I'm standing by my decision to treat absolutely everything following the season 4 finale (with the sole exception of Elliot and One Tree Hill) as a bad AU. None of this is really happening. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Buenos]

Glee showrunners/writers explain all...

"You have to have obstacles to have a happy ending," Murphy explains. "I’ve spent a year learning what they want. We have a list in the writers’ room that says, ‘What do the fans want to end that show?’ And our endings are all very uplifting, and I think by the end of it, people will be ecstatic and really thrilled by how things turn out. I am."

**********************************

See this is my problem with the Glee show runners.

While I might disagree with, say,  the “vision” they would have had with the characters and the show, IF  it was a coherent and narratively consistent vision, OK, I would give it to them that it’s their baby and that how it rolled.  In other words, they had something planned out and stuck to it.

However they do this mealy mouthed “what the fans want” double speak when it’s clear from day one that there was never any monolithic Glee fandon that had any kind of consensus with what they want.  Glee fandom is notoriously divisive and split into different factions.

So good show runner/writers would be most preoccupied with telling a good story for the characters, letting the cards fall where they may,  realizing that their ending would please some fans and inevitably displease others.  It seems that what Brad and Ryan are saying is they will cater to some subgroup of fans that have a specific agenda.

It’s the sheer desingenuousness that is so glaring in what they say about this season.

Like Ranwing, I really can't get all  that worked up about it, but the BS/dishonesty involved is amusing.

As to Klaine being endgame, I'm amazed by fans who haven't accepted that by now. That has always been telegraphed on the show, so I'm puzzled by some of the outrage on Tumblr, sorry but it makes no sense to me.

Not liking it is one thing, but thinking the writers would change their ending IMO was never an option.

[Glorfindel]

What I'm seeing on tumblr are quite some Klainers not being happy with Ryan and Brad's words at all. They feel that Klaine has been messed with too much by RIB to still be considered "okay" in the end, especially with the Blainofsky crap.

Granted, Klainers are never happy and always have something to whine about, so this isn't saying much, but still..... at least this time they actually agree with us, lol. 

[Buenos]

Granted, Klainers are never happy and always have something to whine about, so this isn't saying much, but still.....

TBH, I think that sums up most Glee fans...LOL

[mindschemez]

What I'm seeing on tumblr are quite some Klainers not being happy with Ryan and Brad's words at all. They feel that Klaine has been messed with too much by RIB to still be considered "okay" in the end, especially with the Blainofsky crap.

Granted, Klainers are never happy and always have something to whine about, so this isn't saying much, but still..... at least this time they actually agree with us, lol. 

I was just going to post seeing this reaction from Klainers, as well, much to my surprise.

Regardless of ending, you can't deny the journey. And that journey has been far too tainted to make any "happily ever after" satisfying or meaningful.

This is similar to Rachel's ultimate ending on Glee, and this is coming form a huge Rachel fan. Her story has been too damaged.

As a once hardcore Glee fan, as I reflect on the past and watching these characters throughout the years...it is really disappointing.

[Buenos]

And that journey has been far too tainted to make any "happily ever after" satisfying or meaningful.

What's funny is that Santana has been neglected as a character and yet the writers/showrunners think just pairing her off with Brittany in the sunset will satisfy fans who wanted individual development for her character.  Oh well.  Too late now.

[fantastica]

i know this is late but the Bieste plot line is just offensively offensive! imagine they turned kurt into a woman because he's fem and he's got a high voice - he must be comfortable as a woman right? yuck! didn't Bieste wear MAKEUP all the time? she is not cindarella pretty but she is as much a woman as Rachel or quinn. just because she is big and strong with a deep voice doesn't mean she is a "he". from what i read all the people who wanted transition wanted to be the opposite sex since their childhood. it doesn't come out of the woods all of a sudden, late in the adulthood, unless they suppress their feelings deeply, usually growing up in a very traditional or religious family or something. I mean, Bieaste has always been portrayed as a woman. she may sound/look different, but she is just like any other girls. now they are going to tear her apart. so offensive! poor Dot. i remember she said she didn't want to play a lesbian character because she doesn't want to give the wrong impression that butch woman equals lesbian. but now great. they are going to let her play a gay man! it's like reinforce this prejudice against people whose voice is too high (for a guy) or too low (for a gal) that he/she must be a trans!

ok i will stop this ranting. this show is sick! it used to be lame but it's getting increasingly sick!

[ChrisColferFan1]

After thinking about it I decided I am not going to watch season six at least live. Will never watch a Klaine wedding episode, if there is one. Which I am 99.9 % sure there will be. I am going to pretend Kurt never gotten back with Blaine,and he is now with someone better like Adam Crawford or Elliott Gilbert.And what happened will happen on scene is a very awful A/U

[quietbelle]

The trajectory of the storyline for all the characters, if the spoilers are to be believed, is unfortunate. It is as fundamental as a writer deciding that the law of gravity does not exist and being surprised when his characters as a consequence float away into oblivion. What is sad in the midst of it is that as talented as the cast maybe, it is hard to act in a way that honours the current premise while completely disregarding the canon upon which the character was built in the first place.

Perhaps Glee can function only as an illustration of how NOT to write or approach the presentation of a show. I don't think you actively pursue lightning in a bottle. That is what the Glee writers did and thus the storylines were erratic and irrational. Rather, if you do good work in the first place, when the spark of spectacular happens it will be that much better.

I want to watch season 6 for closure for my favorite characters like Kurt, Rachel and Santana. Even if I groan audibly and spend the hour shaking my head and thinking , oh dear.

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