Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 16

[Ranwing]

Frankly, the show made a mistake when they didn't let Rachel have ANY roles in community theatre that she auditioned for. With a voice like hers, there would have to be something VERY wanting in her or her behavior that would keep her from getting cast in amateur theatre in Lima, Ohio. I cannot but take that into account when people gush about how brilliant she is. The pre-teens and teens in my city of 100,000 who got roles in the local Lort-D theatre were quite average.

The show made multiple mistakes with Rachel's characterizations (like insisting that Rachel can dance when Lea is lucky to be able to walk across a flat surface without tripping), but I'm not sure this is one of them. We saw how unbearable she was back in the early days of ND when the group looked like they were ready to murder her on more than a few occasions and tolerated her presence only because they were convinced that they needed her for the choir to survive. Obnoxious was not too strong a word and the one thing I've learned in my theater experience is that it doesn't matter how talented you are - if you are a total pill and make everyone around you miserable, you don't get cast. I can easily see Rachel having gotten a toxic reputation with her over-enthusiastic bull in a china shop behavior and getting blacklisted from the local theaters in Lima. Talented people don't get cast for parts all the time and one of my friends who has directed community theater always said that if he had to chose between a brilliant performer that could potentially derail a production with their behavior and a slightly less brilliant performer who could be counted on, the less exciting cadidate always got the part. For me, I have absolutely no trouble seeing Rachel's behavior being the element that held her back as a child/teen.

Let's not forget that with the Glee "Funny Girl" plot, the talk of doing a real Broadway Funny Girl revival with Lea has come back. There is a producer talking about mounting a production FOR her. It's again in Lea's interest to blur the lines between Lea and Rachel.

I keep in mind what happened the last time Lea was campaigning for that particular part. Whether or not this production ever happens is anyone's guess, but manipulating a show that you are currently on in order for better your prospects for a possible future gig is not exactly something I respect. Especially when it 1) impacts my enjoyment of the show and 2) impacts actors that I prefer to watch in a negative manner.

[Lottie2303]

Even if you take into account that being successful on Broadway takes an enormous amount of hard work (and I don't doubt that Lea worked very hard to get where she is), she still had a relatively easy trip and was able to make that jump from child to adult actor (something that most performers never manage). And she worked very steadily so Lea had the good fortune to be both talented and lucky. Lea's story, however, is not typical and I'm tired of so much actor bleed coloring the show.

Rachel might be modeled somewhat on Lea (as Kurt is on Chris) but she is a very different creature. She didn't grow up on stage - she grew up taking lessons. Lots of lessons, but very little real practical experience performing (per canon). She never acted as a child or a teen, never got any of the community theater roles she auditioned for and outside of school performances (both recitals and her work with ND and in WSS) had no real stage experience. She's taking a very, very different path than Lea took and how her journey progresses needs to reflect that she's far further back in her career than Lea was by the same age. And working hard doesn't necessarily translate into success as the theater world is filled with actors who work brutally hard, hit every audition possible and do whatever they can to achieve their goals, but never get that big break in their career. To say that Lea's perspective on what makes sense for Rachel's journey is not realistic would be a vast understatement.

What Lea might want is likely to be interesting to her because she naturally only wants to see good things for Rachel, but it would make very boring television. Unlike Chris, Lea is not a storyteller and doesn't see the show through the eye of a writer. She is caught up in the fantasy that they turned Rachel's storyline into. We are not the only ones who've been critical of how easily Rachel achieves all of her goals, or how events must be warped and twisted so that Rachel can get her wins. For Rachel to get this huge role now, with no real experience and not even a year out of high school is really stretching the bounds of believability.

Exactly! Lea sees Rachel's SL through her own experience and totally misses the reality. She grew up on BW but her story is by no means typical. Rachel grew up in Ohio and has zero experience. They have to acknowledge that. By giving Rachel all those wins, they only hurt her character.

I love your analogy with the storyteller. I also have the impression Lea only wants success, success, success for Rachel and doesn't look at the big picture. She doesn't see acting opportunities to show her talent. Just as example. Chris wrote and acted in SBL in which he portrayed a completely different character then Kurt. The movie was from the very beginning not a productions solely based on major profit and/or recognition. It was a indie project with a very big possibility of failure, But he pushed himself and has shown to the audience he can act and be different characters. Lea joined a large ensemble for NYE and basically was just the same character which resembled herself. She didn't prove anything to anyone and the movie was from the get-go a predicted failure. One can assume she wanted the big HW production and not an interesting character to expand her acting skills. All those decisions about Rachel's SL, her songs, how they are sung and how NYC is entirely built around her, with Kurt/Santana being supporting characters, will only hurt her character in the long run.

I already said  a few times: a TV show where the audience doesn't want the main character to succeed, is very obviously doing a big mistake. Furthermore, the very same is happening with Blaine. Blaine and Rachel have many similarities. The difference is only, that Rachel is portrayed by a talented actor.

[Buenos]

I love your analogy with the storyteller. I also have the impression Lea only wants success, success, success for Rachel and doesn't look at the big picture. She doesn't see acting opportunities to show her talent. Just as example. Chris wrote and acted in SBL in which he portrayed a completely different character then Kurt. The movie was from the very beginning not a productions solely based on major profit and/or recognition. It was a indie project with a very big possibility of failure, But he pushed himself and has shown to the audience he can act and be different characters. Lea joined a large ensemble for NYE and basically was just the same character which resembled herself. She didn't prove anything to anyone and the movie was from the get-go a predicted failure. One can assume she wanted the big HW production and not an interesting character to expand her acting skills. All those decisions about Rachel's SL, her songs, how they are sung and how NYC is entirely built around her, with Kurt/Santana being supporting characters, will only hurt her character in the long run.

That is your assumption, but I disagree.   We don't know what roles are offered Lea, and what time constraints and logistics limit what she can pick due to Glee. I would think an ensemble cast with an outstanding pedigree of actors and a respected director for NYE it had a shot of being a success (and btw commercial it was a success)  that  it boggles my mind that they all went in expecting or anticipating  "a predicted failure".  Sorry hindsight is always 20/20  but that to me is just projecting a whole of lot negative assumptions as if we have access to Lea's brain.  

Chris "Struck by Lightning" is something he wrote, so of course it was very personal to him, so comparing that to being hired by someone to act in a film is apples and oranges.  Alot of actors who care about acting skills are not writers , nor does anyone expect them to be.

[AnneNeville]

I love your analogy with the storyteller. I also have the impression Lea only wants success, success, success for Rachel and doesn't look at the big picture. She doesn't see acting opportunities to show her talent. Just as example. Chris wrote and acted in SBL in which he portrayed a completely different character then Kurt. The movie was from the very beginning not a productions solely based on major profit and/or recognition. It was a indie project with a very big possibility of failure, But he pushed himself and has shown to the audience he can act and be different characters. Lea joined a large ensemble for NYE and basically was just the same character which resembled herself. She didn't prove anything to anyone and the movie was from the get-go a predicted failure. One can assume she wanted the big HW production and not an interesting character to expand her acting skills. All those decisions about Rachel's SL, her songs, how they are sung and how NYC is entirely built around her, with Kurt/Santana being supporting characters, will only hurt her character in the long run.

That is your assumption, but I disagree.   We don't know what roles are offered Lea, and what time constraints and logistics limit what she can pick. I would think an ensemble cast with an outstanding pedigree of actors and a respected director for NYE it had a shot of being a success (and btw commerially it was a success)  that  it boggles my mind that they all went int expecting or anticipating  "a predicted failure".  Sorry hindsights is 20/20  but that to me is just projecting a whole of lot negative assumption as if we have access to Lea's brain.  

Chris "Struck by Lightning" is something he wrote, so comparing that to being hired by someone to act in a film is apples and oranges.  Alot of actors who care about acting skills are not writers , nor does anyone expect them to be.  

I expect that Lea had limited time and saw NYE and the singing in it as a way to reach a wider audience than she can get on Glee. I can understand that choice, and the desire to lead with your strong suit. It may not be as brave as Struck By Lightning, but it was also a much bigger affair and probably seemed like a safer and more-likely-to-lead-to-more-roles choice.

[Lottie2303]

^ Of course it is my opinion and I can be totally wrong, but I stand by it  . NYE was released after Valentines Day, which also didn't really fare well. I also don't think it is wrong to assume that Lea wants a Hollywood career and is striving to be a successful movie actress one day. Nothing wrong with that, as I love ambition, but I do believe the to her the size of production is more important than the final product.

I know that won't entirely be a factor once when it comes to Lea's career, but she is so not liked outside of the Glee fandom. This is not bias speaking but what I read and heart long before I started to watch Glee. She really, really is not an actress the majority likes and wants to see. To be fair, Chris is relatively unknown. I didn't hear anything from him before I started to watch Glee. So he also needs to work on certain aspect for his future career and recognition.

Chris took a major risk wit SBL, as it was his entire responsibility. I really admire that and believe in general it is something that separates him from a lot of other actors in HW. Not just Lea.

[Ranwing]

I think Glee has to be "realistic" or "believable" within it's own universe, and there is where it has always struggled with inconsistencies and narrative WTF twists.   Rachel's triumph in "Dont rain on my parade" back in S1 would work only if the audience believe this HS kid had star power.    It's not so much that Rachel succeeding in Broadway is believable or not, it's making that an interesting SL is the question.   Potentially it could be, but the bigger problem is that Glee writers have a hard time writing any SL's with a satisfying conclusion. I'd rather have Rachel triumphing on Broadway a SL than yet another catfishing  story or eating disorder SL's  back in McKinley with colorless, boring Noobs who have little charisma and charm and star wattage, if we have to pick the lesser of our evils.

I totally agree with this. I have absolutely no issue with Rachel succeeding on Broadway and becoming the star that she wants to be. Eventually. What I'm tired of is seeing them setting Rachel up with interesting storylines and real challenges that give her story some suspence (like having her choke at her NYADA audition which could potentially derail all of her plans) and then stuffing the bullet back into the gun after pulling the trigger so that Rachel can succeed. She no longer actually fails at anything outside of her personal realtionships. Up until season 3, her wins were all believable within the Glee universe. And when she failed at something, the failure stuck and didn't just get errased.

This past season they started off strong, with Rachel being the small fish in a big pond of exceptionally talented students trying to find her way. They gave her a teacher who didn't think that sunshine shone out of her ass and that she didn't have the talent to change her mind. There was potential here for a really facinating story and they turned it into another Rachel Wins At Everything season. The problem is that without some real chance of signifigant failure in Rachel achieving her goals, I've lost my interest in seeing her journey. Why should I care that she's not getting something immediately when I know for certain that in the end, she'll get everything. It just becomes boring.

[Buenos]

^ Of course it is my opinion and I can be totally wrong, but I stand by it  . NYE was released after Valentines Day, which also didn't really fare well.

I admit that both NYE and Valentines day did not do well critically, however commercially they were both successes.  Valentines Day worldwide grossed over 200 million dollars which for a rom/com is exceptional.

BTW, I have a soft spot in my heart for the director of those films, Gary Marshall. I've seen plays in his small theatre in Burbank, The Falcone and he is so proud of his theatre it is so obviously a labor of love for him.

I know that won't entirely be a factor once when it comes to Lea's career, but she is so not liked outside of the Glee fandom. This is not bias speaking but what I read and heart long before I started to watch Glee. She really, really is not an actress the majority likes and wants to see.

I have no problem with your opinion not liking Lea so please don't misconstrue.  However it is an opinion and there is no way of knowing for now if she is an actress that those in the industry or the GA don't want to like or see in any other projects.  My opinion is that she's popular among the GA and well known "name" as a celebrity and has some clout in the industry and will have some opportunities come her way post/Glee. Of course that is just my opinion and I don't pretend it's anything else.  

After Glee ends, we will see how her career goes (and Chris and every other glee actor for that matter) but until then all any of us are dong is harmless speculation with our opinions.  

Getting back to Chris and Kurt, I wonder if the hiatus of Glee filming ends this week and the actors start production of Episode 4 on Monday for sure.

[Lottie2303]

Obviously we have different perspectives and we are both right for our own mind. Please also don't assume I don't respect fans of hers or you. I understand, acknowledge and certainly respect the fact that Lea has a very dedicated fan base.

But the second point really comes from an unbiased POV. I started watching Glee during S4 and I am not part of this fandom for even a year. I'd say I have a unique perspective, as I see certain things from a different light. The actors of Glee are frankly put nobodies to those who do not watch the show. That includes Chris, as much as it pains me to admit. Lea is a different story. One can definitely argue that she left an impression as I knew about her. But the dislike towards her is staggering.

Just as much as I can confirm that Kurtsies really were mad as even I knew about NYADA-gate at the end of S3. And believe me, I really had no idea about anything Glee related, but even I couldn't miss that outrage pouring out of the fandom

[AnneNeville]

Lea is very, very talented, but it is true that she has a bad reputation in the industry, at least in the Broadway community. However, during her time on Glee she has been showing herself to be professional and a money maker in her particular demographic, which may help her in the long run. It is possible that by the time Glee ends, the things people disliked will no longer be issues.

And she is very talented. I hope that she doesn't hurt her voice for the long term, because I'd like to see her remain a star.

[sheny]

Last season’s finale of Glee ended with Blaine (Darren Criss) contemplating proposing to soul mate Kurt (Chris Colfer). Well, we don’t know if he goes through with it or not, but based on this exclusive photo from the Sept. 26 premiere, the pair are getting along just fine.
But, Criss says, this is not Kurt accepting Blaine’s hand in marriage; he’s merely agreeing to date the former Warbler again. Blaine still pulls out all the stops for the wooing with a marching band accompanying him on The Beatles’ “Got to Get You Into My Life” (the two-part premiere is a tribute to the iconic British band). “Well, Glee never skimps,” Criss says of the elaborate number. “A simple question is not going to escape an elaborate gesture on Glee, that’s for sure.” What can Criss say about a potential Klaine engagement? Not much. Teases the actor: “There’s definitely going to be an answer to what Blaine is going to do within the first two episodes.”
(Source)

They probably get back together after “Got to Get You Into My Life”.

[AnneNeville]

tirpse:

Last season’s finale of Glee ended with Blaine (Darren Criss) contemplating proposing to soul mate Kurt (Chris Colfer). Well, we don’t know if he goes through with it or not, but based on this exclusive photo from the Sept. 26 premiere, the pair are getting along just fine.
But, Criss says, this is not Kurt accepting Blaine’s hand in marriage; he’s merely agreeing to date the former Warbler again. Blaine still pulls out all the stops for the wooing with a marching band accompanying him on The Beatles’ “Got to Get You Into My Life” (the two-part premiere is a tribute to the iconic British band). “Well, Glee never skimps,” Criss says of the elaborate number. “A simple question is not going to escape an elaborate gesture on Glee, that’s for sure.” What can Criss say about a potential Klaine engagement? Not much. Teases the actor: “There’s definitely going to be an answer to what Blaine is going to do within the first two episodes.”
(Source)

In which Darren manages to be extremely spoilery and vague at the same time. I think that the line "There's definitely going to be an answer to what Blaine is giong to do within the first two episodes" gets a prize for vagueness and obviousness.

[valkeakuulas]

Kurt dating Blaine again? So Adam is gone then? Too many questions with stupid obvious answers.

[Buenos]

r. But the dislike towards her is staggering.

Just as much as I can confirm that Kurtsies really were mad as even I knew about NYADA-gate at the end of S3. And believe me, I really had no idea about anything Glee related, but even I couldn't miss that outrage pouring out of the fandom

I do agree that fandom anger can be interesting.  

I'm talking more industry cred/recognition and viable opportunities outside of Glee. Love or hate Lea, she is the only actor outside of Jane Lynch to get national commercial endorsements, (though Naya did get that well received Super bowl Ad), has been on the cover of many well known magazines (at least here in the States) and is mentioned as a celebrity in the cultural buzz. I would assume she's less well know in Europe outside of England.

On a personal note, we don't know any of these actors, so I take any buzz on their negative behavior with a grain of salt unless I'm shown some kind of evidence other than heresay and innuendo.

Anyways we are going around in circles and boring everyone else.  

What is your best guess for what will be the story of Kurt in S4 post the Tribute to Finn?

[AnneNeville]

Kurt dating Blaine again? So Adam is gone then? Too many questions with stupid obvious answers.

Um, if Kurt does agree to date Blaine again, I hope that he at least calls or emails Adam to break up.

[Jellyrolls]

[img(499.79999999999995px,309.79999999999995px)]http://25.media.tumblr.com/4753fc9551195b8de06f037dfcaa33e3/tumblr_mta8ph3GXu1qbqtkso1_500.jpg[/img]

Last season’s finale of Glee ended with Blaine (Darren Criss) contemplating proposing to soul mate Kurt (Chris Colfer). Well, we don’t know if he goes through with it or not, but based on this exclusive photo from the Sept. 26 premiere, the pair are getting along just fine.
But, Criss says, this is not Kurt accepting Blaine’s hand in marriage; he’s merely agreeing to date the former Warbler again. Blaine still pulls out all the stops for the wooing with a marching band accompanying him on The Beatles’ “Got to Get You Into My Life” (the two-part premiere is a tribute to the iconic British band). “Well, Glee never skimps,” Criss says of the elaborate number. “A simple question is not going to escape an elaborate gesture on Glee, that’s for sure.” What can Criss say about a potential Klaine engagement? Not much. Teases the actor: “There’s definitely going to be an answer to what Blaine is going to do within the first two episodes.”
(Source)

They probably get back together after “Got to Get You Into My Life”.

Looking at that picture, this is the most unromantic kiss ever.

Poor Kurt. The Kurt we know and love wouldn't take that lying cheating bastard back. If only Kurt knew that the bastard spent the six months Kurt was upset crushing on a straight guy.

It still pisses me off that they are making them get back together when it seemed like Kurt had finally healed from the pain Blaine caused him.

[AnneNeville]

r. But the dislike towards her is staggering.

Just as much as I can confirm that Kurtsies really were mad as even I knew about NYADA-gate at the end of S3. And believe me, I really had no idea about anything Glee related, but even I couldn't miss that outrage pouring out of the fandom

I do agree that fandom anger can be interesting.  

I'm talking more industry cred/recognition and viable opportunities outside of Glee. Love or hate Lea, she is the only actor outside of Jane Lynch to get national commercial endorsements,  (though Naya did get that well received Super bowl Ad), has been on the cover of many well known magazines (at least here in the States) and is mentioned as a celebrity in the cultural buzz.  I would assume she's less well know in Europe outside of England.  

On a personal note, we don't know any of these actors, so I take any buzz on their negative behavior with a grain of salt unless I'm shown some kind of evidence other than heresay and innuendo.  

Anyways we are going around in circles and boring everyone else.   

What is your best guess for what will be the story of Kurt in S4 post the Tribute to Finn?

I agree with you--Lea is the most prominent current cast member. I'm not sure how many guys get invited to do covers and ad/endorsements compared to women, though. I think there is a lot more demand for women's faces and bodies in those kinds of things. :-)

I didn't post what I posted as heresay, at least not in terms of "stuff I heard online." I work in the industry in NYC. Just so you know. Again, as I said above, by the time she finishes with Glee, her reputation may have improved. We'll see.

As for Kurt's story: Oi, I don't know. I'm going to guess that the pain of losing Finn will drive him into Blaine's arms, and his relationships with Rachel and Santana will be deepened.

Alternatively, maybe he will go into a spiral of grief, take leave from NYADA, and start to work in a drag club, where he will meet Adam Lambert and finally lose a bit of his "good boy" polish (before Blaine swoops in and saves him and convinces him to go back to NYADA).

[Buenos]

I don't think anyone is surprised that by Episode 1 they are going to resume dating again, that is Kurt and  Blaine.   So Darren's spoiler is hardly shocking.  If push comes to shove, I'm actually surprised they kept Kurt/Blaine apart as long as they did for a whole season so to speak.  

The AYNIL is not going to be a wedding proposal , that is my story and I'm sticking to it.    I think that Kurt is willing to date Blaine again, but I wonder if he's still gunshy to commit to an exclusive committed relationship , especially a LDR with him back in NY and Blaine there in Lima.   I wonder if Blaine is trying to convince Kurt that this time it will be different, personally I don't see how, but that's Glee!  

[AnneNeville]

Looking at that picture, this is the most unromantic kiss ever.  

Poor Kurt.  The Kurt we know and love wouldn't take that lying cheating bastard back.  If only Kurt knew that the bastard spent the six months Kurt was upset crushing on a straight guy.  

It still pisses me off that they are making them get back together when it seemed like Kurt had finally healed from the pain Blaine caused him.

Yeah. It was a mistake to be so fixated on having Kurt and Blaine put the sunglasses on in sync at the end of GTGYIML that they are holding their glasses and not able to fully embrace. However, there's a good chance that the real shot (the one that the film camera was focused on) is a closeup, and the awkward position of their bodies will not be evident when they edit the episode.

[Buenos]

"The loss of Monteith means that Finn will never fulfill his certain destiny of marrying his love Rachel - a heartbreaking fact in its own right - but also that fans will never get to see the outcome of Finn’s uncertain professional future. Would he have stayed in college? Would he have become a teacher? Monteith’s life was cut tragically short and now Finn’s story has been cut tragically cut short as well."

— TV Guide

 

[Buenos]

It still pisses me off that they are making them get back together when it seemed like Kurt had finally healed from the pain Blaine caused him.

LOL...I think part of the problem in the SL last year is that Chris is such a good actor, he conveyed the devastation of Kurt with very little dialogue. When he tells Finn something to the effect of " It feels like I'm dying" in the The Breakup it's heart wrenching.

Did I mention he's a good actor?

So as an audience we feel his pain and are pissed off he isn't treated better. The Glee writers are so sadistic when it come to Kurt, they strip him of everything sooner or later but it's hard to complain when Chris delivers so well in his acting of these scenes... 

[Buenos]

Rachel (Lea Michele) adjusts to a new job as she and Santana work at a Broadway diner to make ends meet in the “Tina in The Sky With Diamonds”

[Buenos]

GLEE: New Directions perform in the “Tina in The Sky With Diamonds” episode of GLEE airing Thursday, Oct. 3 (9:00 -10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. ©2013 Fox Broadcasting Co. Cr: Mike Yarish/FOX

[Buenos]

GLEE: Kitty (Becca Tobin, L) talks to Artie (Kevin McHale, R) about running for prom queen in the “Tina in The Sky With Diamonds” episode of GLEE airing Thursday, Oct. 3 (9:00 -10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. Pictured L-R: Kevin McHale, Darren Criss, Jenna Ushkowitz, Blake Jenner and NAME. ©2013 Fox Broadcasting Co. Cr: Mike Yarish/FOX. [UHQ]

[Jellyrolls]

A couple of thoughts about the ND performing pictures:

1. I really wish that they would stop putting Alex in wigs that make him look like Mercedes. I always think it's Mercedes, and it makes me smile, but when I remember it's Alex, it's a huge let down.

2. It looks like Blaine picked out the costumes for the boys. Flood pants, and shoes with no socks. That has Blaine written all over it and feeds into Trollphy's ankle fetish.

3. They really need to do something about Chord's hair. yuck.

4. Seeing these pictures and listening to the clips makes me really said they didn't do the Beatles tribute in season 1 or 2 when they had a cast who could do the songs and the performances justice.

[Buenos]

GLEE: Tina (Jenna Ushkowitz) performs in the “Tina in The Sky With Diamonds” episode of GLEE airing Thursday, Oct. 3 (9:00 -10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. ©2013 Fox Broadcasting Co. Cr: Mike Yarish/FOX

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