Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 6

[fantastica]

wow, there are "teen idols" who grow up and become real actors because they have the acting chops. think about Leo DeCaprio. he plays big fat middle aged men now. but who cares. he's getting great roles.

[MoviesAreLife]

LOL! I'd hardly call him fat or middle aged! But yes, he is one teen idol who grew up to impress the hell out of people. He is taken seriously.

[fantastica]

^ oh yeah my big fat mouth likes to exagerate. you know what i mean.

[brisallie]

I'm agree that through the years Leo Dicaprio has gotten slightly fat, but not all of his characters are middle age fat men. And yep, he's a good example of someone who made the transition from teen idol to an adult actor.

[glimmerle]

Honestly, as I rewatch the season two episodes, I actually think that Darren has regressed as an actor. (...) I also get the impression that Darren is far more interested in the fame than he is in his work.

That's the impression he gives me as well. I never thought he was a good actor to begin with, but now it seems like he stopped even trying and just works on his fame instead of his skills. Which is an unfortunate decision, because I agree with others who said that he's very much a teen idol and needs something else going on for him to ensure the longevity of his career.

It makes you wonder what these teen idols do once they get fat and old? That must suck for them.

Starring in reality TV-shows? Writing bitter tell-alls? Living off royalties if they are lucky?

[Glorfindel]

I know Darren lacks of abilities on those three skills, but aren't things he could improve? Probably he won't be the best, because I still think if a mixture between natural talent and hard-working, but at least he will be able to do a decent work. Umm well currently I think he can do a decent work, but usually it depends on who's next to him.

But Darren has a degree in acting! He should have learned by now, but I agree with Karen that he seems to be degressing in his acting on Glee.
Though I have to admit that his singing improved somewhat while he has been on Glee, but mostly in the recorded songs, not his live performances.

With Darren I have the idea that he is just a bit sloppy and lazy (just look at his belly: he doesn't work out), and doesn't exercise his skills enough, especially his singing.

chris has improved a great deal on his singing. i don't think he would be able to sing the last 2 bway songs he sang this season if he's still 18 now. marie can confirm (or deny) this.

Yup. As much as I love 'Defying Gravity' and 'Rose's Turn': the difference between those 2 Broadway songs and 'Being Alive' and 'Bring Him Home' is immens.
Chris could have sung those latest songs back in the day, but they would have missed the needed depth and control.

Other actors on Glee who have improved their singing skills a lot on Glee since the pilot are Cory, Heather (although Heather not that much) and surprisingly Dianna. Cory's season 4 songs are all very well sung, and Dianna's voice has become a lot stronger too.

[Buenos]

Marie what do you think of Naya's singing voice?

[arina]

I would really love to hear Chris singing Roses Turn nowadays again to see the difference. I really loved the season 1 version so I would be excited to hear it from Chris with even more experiences in singing. :-)

[Buenos]

The irony is that now that his voice has improved and grown, Chris sings the least since season one.

The reality is that Chris has never sang a lot on the show, but his best output was probably Season Two, where he had 5 solos ( IWTHYH, Jazz hot, Blackbird, AIWNSG, Some People) and 5 duets (Happy days, DCFMA, BICO, Animal, Candles).

This year after 16 episodes he will have had 1 solo, and 4 duets (White Christmas, BHH, CGE, CMW ). CWM like White Christmas will probably be a duet in name only, with most of it sang by Darren.

It's not just the split narrative, the show is just not invested in Chris singing.

[Divalicious]

Kurt usually seems to get songs when he has story, where a lot of other characters just seem to spontaneously burst into song. He hasn't had a huge narrative, so even less songs were given. Trio w/Isabelle and Rachel, duet w/Blaine, and his audition songs. Pretty pathetic when some get to sing at the drop of a hat. I am hoping now he has Adam, and if it does go somewhere, we actually get to have a few more Kurt songs. Like season 1 where he had almost nothing, and then he had the great Madonna episode, where he really got to shine in more than one instance.

Kurt is like the good china, you only bring it out on special occasions. Too bad the rest of the time we get a lot of take out with plastic forks, sigh.

[Glorfindel]

^Kurt often doesn't even get songs when he has a storyline, which is what is so strange, because all te other characters usually do. Sometimes those same others who sing a lot even get songs in Kurt's storyline, instead of himself. Blaine of course, but also Santana, Brittany and Mercedes. This is just weird.
Are they so taken aback by the mixed reactions online about Kurt's voice?
On the one hand they seem to cherish his voice and let it shine in some specific songs, OTOH it looks like they think that Kurt cannot sing 'normal' in 'normal' songs, pop songs and group numbers. They have put Kurt's voice in a little special box, and they cannot think outside of that box. Luckily Chris can (and I also think the Anders brother can when allowed by RIB) and he knows his voice is more than the limitations they want to put on him, or we wouldn't have had some of his best songs.

Marie what do you think of Naya's singing voice?

Naya has a very specific voice, with a special timbre that I personally find very appealing. Her vocal techniques are okay, not spectacular, but with the right songs her singing is absolutely great.
And there's the rub when it comes to Santana, imo: she is not that versatile. As said: on the right songs she is perfect, but when the song is not right for her she falls flat easily. The wrong songs almost sound lifeless, spiritless imo. I usually like her badass songs, but her ballads are boring to me.

Her Tina Turner songs (River Deep Mountain High and Nutbush) are some of her best, imo, and also e.g. 'Bad Romance' and some others (I don't have access to the songs so I can't give other titles right now). But some other songs I don't like, or better said: they just don't register for me, I forget them because they don't have any impact on me. That's why I said spiritless.
And when you look at her musical theatre songs: I loved her WSS songs 'A Boy Like That' and 'America', which are spicy songs , but I didn't like her 'There Are Worse Things I Could Do' in Grease, which is more a ballad.

That's maybe more personal preference then vocal techniques, I think, although these aspects of singing of course are also part of the song experience and are things that, up to a certain degree, can be learned or told to give attention to (by a director or producer) while recording.
It's almost as if Naya's vocal techniques lose energy when she sings 'softer' and slower. This is a problem/flaw that I see a lot while teaching: the singer thinks she doesn't need a lot of energy/focus for the singing because the song is slow and languid, not too high or low, and/or the song's emotions are more placid. But besides the difficulty level and emotional aspect of the song being more tranquil the singer also 'connects' that state of mind to the vocal techniques, and loses energy and focus where her technical abilities are concerned: and this should never happen.
No matter how easy a song, the vocal techniques should always be "on". Most singers have enough basis instinctive (natural born with and usually trained so often that the muscle memory takes over automatically) to sing on a decent enough level even when they do not put their vocal technique on "on". With Naya I sometimes think that she loses too much power when she isn't "on", and that's usually in her ballads.
Same goes for Darren, btw.

Did that make any sense?

[Buenos]

Naya has a very specific voice, with a special timbre that I personally find very appealing. Her vocal techniques are okay, not spectacular, but with the right songs her singing is absolutely great.
And there's the rub when it comes to Santana, imo: she is not that versatile. As said: on the right songs she is perfect, but when the song is not right for her she falls flat easily. The wrong songs almost sound lifeless, spiritless imo. I usually like her badass songs, but her ballads are boring to me.

Yes, because personally I love her so much on her best songs, but they used her last year several times when I thought it did not suit her voice. "Valerie" in season two I really liked. I thought "Never can say goobye" in SNG was an example of a Naya song that just did not work (while it was a song I think Jenna would have killed)

Someone like Jenna/Tina has what I think is a stronger voice but it doesn't stand out, whereas Naya's voice may be more "limited" but it's distinct and appealing within it's range.

On the one hand they seem to cherish his voice and let it shine in some specific songs, OTOH it looks like they think that Kurt cannot sing 'normal' in 'normal' songs, pop songs and group numbers. They have put Kurt's voice in a little special box, and they cannot think outside of that box. Luckily Chris can (and I also think the Anders brother can when allowed by RIB) and he knows his voice is more than the limitations they want to put on him, or we wouldn't have had some of his best songs.

I think they don't think of his voice as "pop" or "accessible". I think it's a bleeding of how they view his character as also "special". It's funny because the Kurt of "Four Minutes" of the Madonna episode and the 20 seconds of Kurt in "Black and White" sounds more than fine in the uptempo pop numbers.
I think what's frustrating is that it's proven he can sing uptempo pop but the show doesn't care to utilize him that way because they have upteen singers who they use for the pop songs.

[Ranwing]

With Darren I have the idea that he is just a bit sloppy and lazy (just look at his belly: he doesn't work out), and doesn't exercise his skills enough, especially his singing.

Lazy is definately the term I would use. One thing that has really frustrated me about Blaine's characterization that I can lay directly at Darren's feet is the complete lack of nuance in his portrayal. Darren performs what is in the script and nothing more, so it's no surprise that Blaine comes across as having no true core. Unlike Chris, who very determidably took Chris away from being a cluster of basic gay tv tropes and add a depth that just was never in how the writers had imagined Kurt to be. It was based on his talent as an actor, and his unwillingness to just let Kurt be a disposable background figure that was elevated to a first tier character and a fan favorite.

I also believe strongly that all the Blaine solos are a crutch to make up for the fact that as an actor, Darren just doesn't have the chops to carry major storylines. His attempts at drama have been pretty laughable, so the solos are used to make up for the deficiet. When Chris can express volumes with a shift in his facial expressions, Darren needs the songs to express a tiny fraction of that real emotion.

And I also noticed that belly. Whereas Chris is getting increasingly stunning, Darren's looks are begining to show signs of deteriorations. He can't control the bald patch, but the gut? No wonder the MHS calendar photoes of him had to be airbrushed to the point of unreconizability.

Kurt is like the good china, you only bring it out on special occasions. Too bad the rest of the time we get a lot of take out with plastic forks, sigh.

Each minute tht is devote to the McKinley storyline (dominated by those "titans" Blaine, Sam and Brittany) is like being force-fed the cheapest junk food after enjoying a diet of prime steak.

[Glorfindel]

^Junk food on paper plates and eaten with a plastic knife and fork (which is a big turn-off for me: I'd rather not eat food at all if it's presented on paper or plastic).

I think they don't think of his voice as "pop" or "accessible". I think it's a bleeding of how they view his character as also "special". It's funny because the Kurt of "Four Minutes" of the Madonna episode and the 20 seconds of Kurt in "Black and White" sounds more than fine in the uptempo pop numbers.
I think what's frustrating is that it's proven he can sing uptempo pop but the show doesn't care to utilize him that way because they have upteen singers who they use for the pop songs.

I don't get this either.
Chris has killed the few snipbits he was allowed to sing in pop songs. His 1 line in 'The Scientist' stands out because it's so good. And I remember getting an almost physical eargasm (lol) when he started singing in 'Black And White': I was like "Whoah, Chris!"

Ah well, at least he gets the Broadway songs, as I love them so much: they are so special, with each their own 'character'/atmosphere.
It's a bit ironic that Kurt has sung the most Broadway songs on the show besides Rachel, but he never sang in the McKinley school musicals.

[brisallie]

But Darren has a degree in acting! He should have learned by now, but I agree with Karen that he seems to be degressing in his acting on Glee.
Though I have to admit that his singing improved somewhat while he has been on Glee, but mostly in the recorded songs, not his live performances.

With Darren I have the idea that he is just a bit sloppy and lazy (just look at his belly: he doesn't work out), and doesn't exercise his skills enough, especially his singing.

I know. And it makes me wonder if he already forgotten all what he learned back then in College, or is just as you have pointed that he's more focused on his fame, instead to be better in what he does. And, that belly comment is so funny, because it reminds me when people said Klaine were gonna be the preggers lol.

And going back to Chris and his lacks of solos, he's someone who has improved so much the last years and in addition he puts so much emotion in his songs, so still I'm wondering what's the reason behind? If you tell me that is because his song choices are not the most heard by everyone, because he tends to sing a lot of Broadway or old classical songs, I could understand it. But, his latest solos were well accepted by people, because as I mentioned before, he puts emotion into a song and I think that's appreciated by others. So what the hell it is?

[Glorfindel]

I really think that they want to promote and push as many actors on Glee as possible, to make them successful, especially the ones they want to break out and carry the Lima part, like Darren and the newbies.
Chris has already gotten so many accolades for his acting: everyone talks about how good an actor he is. He already is very successful in that department (and more: his writing). So he doesn't need the singing accolades/focus too, whereas some of the other cast members really do, to stay relevant.

I think that's also why Lea is singing less and Heather more: RIB wanted Bram to be the power couple at McKinley this season, so Brittany and Sam got many songs.
It is no accident that most songs go to the Lima side, as on that side the acting is not good, and they need the songs to hide that. Lea and Chris don't need that many songs as their scenes and storylines are always interesting anyway because of their stellar acting. Same goes for Cory, btw.
Not that I agree with this policy, but here you go.

-ETA-
I also think that because Chris (and Kurt) is gay, they refuse to give him the clear male lead position on the show, including the songs that a male lead would sing.

[fantastica]

i thought jarley is the power couple in HS. they got so many songs. it's getting really boring.

[glimmerle]

And it makes me wonder if he already forgotten all what he learned back then in College, or is just as you have pointed that he's more focused on his fame, instead to be better in what he does.

I remember him saying in an interview, that he spent most of his time at college partying, so that might be an explaination...

[Glorfindel]

^He also said that he never has to put much effort in Blaine because the script does all that for him and he just follows it. That's not a good acting tactic when it comes to Glee's writing.

i thought jarley is the power couple in HS. they got so many songs. it's getting really boring.

Yes, that's what they want us to believe. But it is quite telling that I forgot all about them when writing that Bram was the power couple.

I think they are banking both on Jarley for the noobs, and Bram for the seniors.

[tanita_mors]

a degree in acting means shit, if you have little natural talent and don't work hard. you know what people say, success is 10 % talent and 90 % hard work (in everything). i think that the problem with blaine is twofold - it's both the mistake of incredibly messy writing and a sub-par acting talent involved. darren isn't the worst actor in the world, but he won't be winning any awards, unless he starts taking his method acting more seriously.

he is very unconvincing as a teenager, from the start to me, particularly if i am to swallow that he is actually suppose to be younger then chris on the show.

as for exposure, glee has run it's course. the show as a whole and it's stars are more or less out of the spotlight, compered to last year or even more so to two years ago.

[Divalicious]

The power couple believed in the Mayan Apocalypse and think eating off the floor at a high school is a good idea. They are really raising the bar for providing role models. Blows my mind, because never once when watching them did I think, yes, this is the new Power Couple on Glee. I didn't think that with Jarley either. There isn't anything that stands out about any of them. They are all varying degrees of niceness/talent/good looks. We don't have any nuances, they are just there. To me the only real power couple on Glee is Hummelberry, because separate or together, the scenes are interesting. To me, that is power.

I agree, that trying to prop up the people with less acting skills they have them sing or dance or both to distract us from what they do lack. While Kurt could make looking at cookbooks fascinating, the others don't have those chops.

On Glee, it isn't those who can't, teach, it is more that those who can't act, sing. So of course, with that logic, their best actor barely sings at all. So, we finally understand why Chris rarely gets to sing, it all makes sense now. That, and gay boys can't be leading men in our patriarchal Hollywood decision making. They say women direct most of television watching. Women love Chris/Kurt, therefore the idiot heads should realize they should set aside their own discomforts, and go with what women want. Smart, sexy gay boys having an interesting life, with some drama and comedy on the side. The good acting is just icing on top. You can throw in the Cheerios or Brittney dancing in a short leather skirt for Men's Night. I think the show caters too much to straight men who don't watch, or teenyboppers who are simply vocal in what they do watch. Too bad they just can't go back to providing inspirational (for real) characters, explore their flaws, celebrate their successes (because they aren't handed on silver platters) and have some big numbers to dance about in.

[tanita_mors]

^He also said that he never has to put much effort in Blaine because the script does all that for him and he just follows it. That's not a good acting tactic when it comes to Glee's writing.

i thought jarley is the power couple in HS. they got so many songs. it's getting really boring.

Yes, that's what they want us to believe. But it is quite telling that I forgot all about them when writing that Bram was the power couple.

I think they are banking both on Jarley for the noobs, and Bram for the seniors.

That isn't a good tactic with any show. Most scripts are very low on descriptives and basic motivation for the characters. You either get it from the writers/director or think your own head cannon and how you will portray that particular moment. most actors write thought and ideas on their scripts, read them over and over until the matter becomes second nature.

[glimmerle]

^He also said that he never has to put much effort in Blaine because the script does all that for him and he just follows it. That's not a good acting tactic when it comes to Glee's writing.

Yeah, that's about as brilliant as when he explained the differences in his and DanRad's portrayal of How To Succeed's Finch with the different colors of their bow-ties... I'm well aware that this remark was supposed to be funny, but considering his general approach on acting it somehow wasn't.

[tanita_mors]

i actually read opinions on his performance compered to dan rad from actual broadway lovers, and not his stans. basically, his finch was blaine. a happy go lucky guy, to whom everything just sort of happened, like a stroke of luck or something. and it's my understanding, that the character is suppose to be a very good manipulator who uses people and situations to his advantage. also, most of his jokes landed very flat and his voice was weak and thin. as we say in serbia (i'm paraphrasing)- when your (dancing) is the thing that impresses most people (in a broadway play and you are an actor), you know what time it is.


also, i fucking hate the name BLAINE. i keep misspelling it as Bliane . what kind of sissy (excuse the connotation) name is that for any guy.

[bayth]

i fucking hate the name BLAINE. i keep misspelling it as Bliane . what kind of sissy (excuse the connotation) name is that for any guy.

That's why, most of the time, I use the name Bland. It works...

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