Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 6

[Glorfindel]

^ *snort* I always seem to type Bline.

On Glee, it isn't those who can't, teach, it is more that those who can't act, sing. So of course, with that logic, their best actor barely sings at all. So, we finally understand why Chris rarely gets to sing, it all makes sense now. That, and gay boys can't be leading men in our patriarchal Hollywood decision making. They say women direct most of television watching. Women love Chris/Kurt, therefore the idiot heads should realize they should set aside their own discomforts, and go with what women want. Smart, sexy gay boys having an interesting life, with some drama and comedy on the side. The good acting is just icing on top. You can throw in the Cheerios or Brittney dancing in a short leather skirt for Men's Night. I think the show caters too much to straight men who don't watch, or teenyboppers who are simply vocal in what they do watch. Too bad they just can't go back to providing inspirational (for real) characters, explore their flaws, celebrate their successes (because they aren't handed on silver platters) and have some big numbers to dance about in.

As for the bolded: as a teacher who is also an artist, I protest against this saying. It's more: "those who can't (perform), start to teach to make a living, but they suck at that too and usually end up doing something else entirely."
For some reason performers who do not become successful (because they lack the talent and/or charisma) are forced to become teachers, so they still have some repayment from their music studies. But you can't just be a teacher, you need talent for that too. The result is that many music teachers suck at teaching, because it's not really what they want to do and they don't have the skills for it, and they give up or don't get enough students because of the bad quality of their lessons, ruining voices and talented students along the way before they stop teaching.
While in the mean time the real (music) teachers get the stigma of being failed artists, when they deliberately chose to teach (even when a lot of them could be successful as artists if they wanted too), out of love for both crafts: music and teaching.

(Sorry, needed to vent that: touchy subject for me.)


I agree with you that women are the most powerful and frequent viewers of tv and movies (and buyers!), but the industry is dominated by men, and that's why what we want is not what we get on Glee.

[Ranwing]

I also think that because Chris (and Kurt) is gay, they refuse to give him the clear male lead position on the show, including the songs that a male lead would sing.

He's not just gay. He's the wrong kind of gay. That has been hammered home over and over and over again that women are not supposed to find a somewhat effemine gay many attractive. Of course, only only has to dip your toe into the on-line fandom to find that Kurt's (and Chris's fans) are at least as numerous as Blarren's, no less passionate (although far better mannered), somewhat more mature in both age and temperment, and don't feel the need to resort to stunts to show just how much we love Chris.".

Throughout the show, Kurt has always been shoved aside for less talented, but "acceptable" options. First Finn. Then Blaine. Now finally, Kurt is in a setting where he's not bound by those limitations. If anything, he's far less flamboyant that many of the other gay students at NYADA (like Rachel's former followers) and compared them, it's not hard to imagine that he would be an easy contender for lead roles. And these would be roles cast by professionals, not a fellow student and two teachers with no theater experience who couldn't get past their image of Kurt as the "gay kid. This isn't a huge surprise since the show was created by a gay man who had his own clear preference about what kind of man he finds attractive, hence the shoving of first Finn and then Blaine down our throats as proper leads instead of the vastly more interesting and talented performer that he doesn't find sexually attractive.

[brisallie]

...

I agree with you that women are the most powerful and frequent viewers of tv and movies (and buyers!), but the industry is dominated by men, and that's why what we want is not what we get on Glee.

This reminds how women are portrayed on Glee, and usually they need a man to tell them how amazing they're. Personally I think they can figure out that by themselves. In addition, it seems that Ryan is making his dreams came true, at throwing on TV young boys who are there to fulfill teen fantasies. I'm sorry, but currently I think Glee is targeted to teens girls.

And you also were saying that Bram is the IT couple at McKenley? I thought it was Jarley, because lately they're pushing them so much, singing every almost every week. As a consequence of that, I read a comment somewhere that it says "I kinda miss Finchel".


P.S Though I'm not a teacher of music, I understad that you need talent to be a teacher. Because those children and teens need a tool to the future, so they can't have a wrongly base.

I also think that because Chris (and Kurt) is gay, they refuse to give him the clear male lead position on the show, including the songs that a male lead would sing.

You know, I've been wondering if because Chris is gay in RL, it affects how some teenagers perceive him. I mean, he won't fulfill his fantasies.

[Ranwing]

^He also said that he never has to put much effort in Blaine because the script does all that for him and he just follows it. That's not a good acting tactic when it comes to Glee's writing.

Yeah, that's about as brilliant as when he explained the differences in his and DanRad's portrayal of How To Succeed's Finch with the different colors of their bow-ties... I'm well aware that this remark was supposed to be funny, but considering his general approach on acting it somehow wasn't.

This really shows exactly what I said earlier. Darren puts absolutely no thought or effort into developing Blaine beyond what appears on the page. You will never see Darren go to the writers and point out that they've having Blaine do something that's not in character or look to infuse the scene with anything more than is specifically spelled out in the script. That just shows me not only laziness as an actor, but just a lack of initative in being part of the creative process. And given that he has experience in creating a show, this is something that I find inexcusable. I had always thought that Chris's background and interest in writing allowed him to take the active role he had in shaping Kurt's character, but Darren also has written and put on that stupid Harry Potter show. He writes music. He should be expected to do more to shape Blaine as a real character rather than just following whatever schitk the writers come up with on a given week. And this is why Blaine is barely a character because he just follows whatever gimmick the writers have for that week. One week, he's bro material, the next he's flaming and divaing it up with the girls. There's no core to Blaine. And that can only be blamed on Darren. Kurt was pushed into a wide variety of situations, but we never lost the essential core of who Kurt is as a character because Chris never allowed it. He never got lost in the gimmick of the week.

[Glorfindel]

You know, I've been wondering if because Chris is gay in RL, it affects how some teenagers perceive him. I mean, he won't fulfill his fantasies.

And that's why the crazy CrissColfers keep repeating that Darren has "a fluent sexuality" and he refuses to "put labels on someone's sexuality".
For CrissColfer to be together in real life it means that Darren has to be either gay or bi, but that's not what they want: they want to fantasize about 2 hot boys making out, but they still want Darren to be straight, so they can delude themselves still having a chance with Darren (as they are girls themselves). Since Chris is really, really, really gay they can't do that with him.

It's some warped psychology they have going on there.

But in a way that's also how the big Fox bosses think: Chris can't be the show's male lead because he is not appealing to the female audience. And that's where they are wrong, because most of Chris' fans are (young) females, and he is very, very popular, and also Kurt. Plus the effeminate character Kurt is the most used character in all the fanfics, including the NC-17 ones.
Some things take a lot of time to change, I guess.

[bayth]

Maybe they may know now - given that Chris won a frickin' Peoples' Choice Award! (You would think they'd get a clue...)

[Divalicious]

Just to clarify, Glorfindel, I was using an American Idiom, whom I said those who can't do, teach. It isn't anything I particularly believe. It was just a phrase to use to segue into my line about why Kurt/Chris is excluded so much.

I don't think TIIC who make decisions on how things are marketed, or how the stories should be focused, really understand that Kurt's fans aren't just the teenyboppers, it includes parents who found the Kurt/Burt relationship inspirational. It includes older ladies like myself, who clearly know Kurt and Chris would never be interested in him, but that doesn't matter to me. It includes very young people I am sure, those who are pondering their sexuality to begin with. While I think most of the other characters appeal to a more specific group, I think Kurt's appeal is much more broad. Unfortunately, for those in society who believe all people should fit into a box, and only a couple of available boxes at that, Kurt is also the most controversial.

The problem is, even after all this time, and positive press, the show doesn't say screw the haters, and just really run with Kurt's character. We've had endless newbies and tons of Blaine, even Rachel has gotten quite a bit going on, Finn and Santana are catching up. The ratings are going down. We need to spark an interest, not continue to dull interest. Maybe now is the time for controversy, going with what everyone in fandom wants (Blaine songs, angst etc) didn't work, perhaps it is time to try a little writing. Writing for an interesting character who may not garner a lot of fandom votes (Blarrenstans are extremely vocal) but will garner interest from the critics, the interviewers, and some news writers who aren't just fangirls themselves.

"If you keep doing what you've always done, you will get what you always got." We repeat a lot of things on this show, some things Glee gets extremely right, and you go Yes!! This is why I still watch it, but catering solely to some vocal, unhappy and mean bullies isn't working for Glee in the bigger picture.

[brisallie]

And that's why the crazy CrissColfers keep repeating that Darren has "a fluent sexuality" and he refuses to "put labels on someone's sexuality".
For CrissColfer to be together in real life it means that Darren has to be either gay or bi, but that's not what they want: they want to fantasize about 2 hot boys making out, but they still want Darren to be straight, so they can delude themselves still having a chance with Darren (as they are girls themselves). Since Chris is really, really, really gay they can't do that with him.

It's some warped psychology they have going on there.

But in a way that's also how the big Fox bosses think: Chris can't be the show's male lead because he is not appealing to the female audience. And that's where they are wrong, because most of Chris' fans are (young) females, and he is very, very popular, and also Kurt. Plus the effeminate character Kurt is the most used character in all the fanfics, including the NC-17 ones.
Some things take a lot of time to change, I guess.

So let me try to understand their twisted mind. Crisscolfers still want Darren to be straight, but at the same time they think (or want) he's dating secretly Chris, so is like he's still labeled as straight but Chris is his "exception". Umm is something like that? I'm sorry but that would be accepted if he's a closeted gay and came out at forty's like Ricky Martin, or bi. Well once I read the term pansexual. Ok this's so weird.

Hahaha, I'm sorry to laugh at the statement that "Chris doesn't appeal to female audiences", because it seems to me that's otherwise. But Fox bosses are men who have no idea how female brain works, and also how generations have changed. Even Chris has been surprised by it.

[Ranwing]

Maybe they may know now - given that Chris won a frickin' Peoples' Choice Award! (You would think they'd get a clue...)

And Darren didn't even make it to the final round. Yeah... that should tell them a great deal over who the majority of Glee fans (and not just the whiny contingent) are pulling for. And given that Darren's Itunes sales have been in pretty steep decline for awhile now, I think that the writing is on the wall that we've hit Darren saturation-overload.

As far as Chris (and by extention Kurt) appealing to a female audience, I'm speaking as a woman who has eyes and likes both pretty boys, rugged men and everything in between. I adore Chris Meloni (and droll over his pecs), but wen I saw Orlando Bloom, I made with the grabby hands. When I saw Chris for the first time, I just wanted to pinch his cheeks because he was so absolutely adorable. I wanted to keep him in my pocket. And then they tossed him into a Cheerio's uniform and I realized just what was hiding under his outlandish clothes. And in the past three and a half years, I've watched him grow form an adorable boy into an absolutely stunning young man that I do find very attractive, thank you very much. I don't need to fantasize about sleeping with someone in order to be deeply physically attratacte to him. And his mind is probably the most gorgeous thing about him. And his voice...

I get that Darren is more "commerical" than Chris, but commerical items tend to have pretty short shelf lives. And so far, he hasn't shown me that I'm going to want to follow him to whatever he does after Glee (not given that my tolerance for him on Glee is decreasing each week). But I'll follow Chris to whatever he does next. If he makes a film, I'll see it. If he finds a role on Broadway, I'll be there.

[Glorfindel]

Just to clarify, Glorfindel, I was using an American Idiom, whom I said those who can't do, teach. It isn't anything I particularly believe. It was just a phrase to use to segue into my line about why Kurt/Chris is excluded so much.

I know how you meant that phrase, and I understand. It just sets me off every time because it is so dismissing of teachers and their skills (and influence on young people!). Chris never made it a secret that some of his teachers were his lifeline back in school, while other teachers undermined his confidence (like that drama teacher) just like his bullies.
That's why I wanted Mr. Shue to be an inspirational teacher. Sue once used that phrase against Will, although I don't remember the episode (it was way, way back in season 1 or 2): I hated her after that, when most of the times I just laugh at her, even when she pushed someone down the stairs, lol.
Yeah, as I said: touchy subject.

So on Glee it's: "Those who can't act, sing (even when they also can't sing that well)."
Sounds about right.

-ETA-
"Those who can't act, go shirtless."

[Ranwing]

"Those who can't act, go shirtless."

But I don't want to see Darren shirtless! Or Dean!

And I am the only one who finds it amazing that just a glance of skin on Chris's lower back nearly breaks tumblr?

[Glorfindel]

^Nope.

BTW: is that what they call going "bareback"?

[brisallie]

I know how you meant that phrase, and I understand. It just sets me off every time because it is so dismissing of teachers and their skills (and influence on young people!). Chris never made it a secret that some of his teachers were his lifeline back in school, while other teachers undermined his confidence (like that drama teacher) just like his bullies.
That's why I wanted Mr. Shue to be an inspirational teacher. Sue once used that phrase against Will, although I don't remember the episode (it was way, way back in season 1 or 2): I hated her after that, when most of the times I just laugh at her, even when she pushed someone down the stairs, lol.
Yeah, as I said: touchy subject.

So on Glee it's: "Those who can't act, sing (even when they also can't sing that well)."
Sounds about right.

-ETA-
"Those who can't act, go shirtless."

People should understand and respect the effort that some teachers put in their work. Is true that some of them put things aside and don't take seriously what's going on with their students, but in those cases I'm not sure how real is their vocation.

In regards of Will, I've always believed he had good intentions behind, but I think he's weakness is that sometimes he focus on only some students.

...

But I don't want to see Darren shirtless! Or Dean!

And I am the only one who finds it amazing that just a glance of skin on Chris's lower back nearly breaks tumblr?

Nope. I find it amazing too :D. How a glance of skin can turn down tumblr,while they're shirtless guys on the same tv show?

[Divalicious]

It's the mystery. The other guys disrobe with a fair amount of regularity. Kurt, and Chris, are much more circumspect about exposing themselves, so we want what we can't have. Everyone else you just kind of wait, because their turn will come, with Kurt, you go, I don't think his turn ever is going to come, dammit, now I REALLY want to see it.

Part of me wants there to be this in joke, like never seeing Maris on Frasier. She was the wife of the brother of the main character, who was talked about, but she was so unique sounding, they realized they couldn't get someone to play that, so she was never shown. I want Kurt to be seen by his roomies, and have them just kind of keep staring at him for an episode, like, OMG, that is what he's been hiding all this time? Is Blaine crazy?! He cheated on THAT!!

And then I regain my fangirl senses and just want to see Chris with his shirt off, I don't need or expect perfect muscles. I just want a little toned (and really pale) skin, pretty please.

[ColferInspired]

Wow, there have been some really wonderful posts in this thread today.
I love it when there are discussions.
Chris's next movie is R-rated, and usually sex scene/scenes, nudity, high level violence, blood and gore in usually under that rating.
So who knows what we might see, if he gets to do this movie soon.

[Divalicious]

Sadly, as Chris is only a supporting character, and in an insane asylum, I don't think we will be getting anything sexy. Well, let me rephrase that, I do think crazy Chris would probably be all sorts of sexy, but something intentionally sexy probably isn't in the cards.

Personally I am hoping for the baby faced serial killer, who is hiding out at the sanitarium to stay off death row, and who takes the lead character on along a primrose path, and ends the movie with him escaping out into the world. People look at Chris and he looks and sounds so sweet, I can see them wanting to believe he wasn't so bad, but he really is, hehehe.

Funny, Chris' fandom is all okay with him playing flawed characters, where other fans insist their characters remain perfect. Not just the Glee fandom as well.

[MoviesAreLife]

I can't wait for the R rated film! I wonder what he will have in his script in order to get that rating? My interest is peaked!

Chris is classy. Unlike the other guys, he doesn't need to bare it all in order to start a riot. Less is more. Although, I wouldn't complain if he were to show more skin!

Lazy is how I'd describe Darren, yes. He doesn't take it seriously. Chris is a perfectionist and a true artist...he loves the craft and he takes what he does seriously. He even jokingly said he was "method" one time. The difference between the two of them is amazing...the quality is like fine, imported chocolates from Europe vs a candybar at a gas station. Can you guess who is who?

There is actually a trend among the younger generation of females who just LOVE their feminine, pretty boys. I am one of those women. It's a cult phenomenon. I can't explain the psychology behind it despite being one of those girls, but yes, it exists for sure. Whether TPTB at Glee are uncomfortable with the idea of it doesn't matter: the point is is that WE know what women want because...hello, we are the women! And we want Chris!

Chris would rock the angel-faced demon role! A la Aaron Stampler in Primal Fear, played by Edward Norton (in his Oscar nominated film debut).

[Ranwing]

Personally I am hoping for the baby faced serial killer, who is hiding out at the sanitarium to stay off death row, and who takes the lead character on along a primrose path, and ends the movie with him escaping out into the world. People look at Chris and he looks and sounds so sweet, I can see them wanting to believe he wasn't so bad, but he really is, hehehe.

I would love to see him play a role like that, if only because I know how much fun he can have with a part like that. He looks like such an angel and it would be enormous fun to see him play an evil, manipulative type of character. I think he's going t have a blast filming this next film.

Funny, Chris' fandom is all okay with him playing flawed characters, where other fans insist their characters remain perfect. Not just the Glee fandom as well.

There's a difference between loving a performer, where you can take pleasure in whatever character he plays (warts and all) and loving an idol, where they have to stay perfect or it destroys what you love about them.

[ColferInspired]

I can't wait for the R rated film! I wonder what he will have in his script in order to get that rating? My interest is peaked!

Chris is classy. Unlike the other guys, he doesn't need to bare it all in order to start a riot. Less is more. Although, I wouldn't complain if he were to show more skin!

Lazy is how I'd describe Darren, yes. He doesn't take it seriously. Chris is a perfectionist and a true artist...he loves the craft and he takes what he does seriously. He even jokingly said he was "method" one time. The difference between the two of them is amazing...the quality is like fine, imported chocolates from Europe vs a candybar at a gas station. Can you guess who is who?

There is actually a trend among the younger generation of females who just LOVE their feminine, pretty boys. I am one of those women. It's a cult phenomenon. I can't explain the psychology behind it despite being one of those girls, but yes, it exists for sure. Whether TPTB at Glee are uncomfortable with the idea of it doesn't matter: the point is is that WE know what women want because...hello, we are the women! And we want Chris!

Chris would rock the angel-faced demon role! A la Aaron Stampler in Primal Fear, played by Edward Norton (in his Oscar nominated film debut).

Giving that Chris wrote it, and that he doesn't go in for sensationalism from what I have from Carson in SBL. He is a storyteller, would prefer to add depth to his character, then just do a nude scene or a sex scene.
As he supposed to be a deranged character, I think maybe he is a serial killer by what I have gotten from the little he has revealed in interviews, I think we might see a great deal of violence.
But knowing Chris it will fit to the story not be for shock value.
He needs a role to show what he can really do as an actor, that people can see he play more than just a teenager. I think this role could do that.
I hope he does get to film it soon. I know he doesn't want to jinx it like he has said, so he is staying quiet it about it.

[MoviesAreLife]

I know that whatever it is, it will all have a purpose and will not be for shock value, like you said.

[brisallie]

...

Personally I am hoping for the baby faced serial killer, who is hiding out at the sanitarium to stay off death row, and who takes the lead character on along a primrose path, and ends the movie with him escaping out into the world. People look at Chris and he looks and sounds so sweet, I can see them wanting to believe he wasn't so bad, but he really is, hehehe.

...

I would love to see him play a role like that, if only because I know how much fun he can have with a part like that. He looks like such an angel and it would be enormous fun to see him play an evil, manipulative type of character. I think he's going t have a blast filming this next film.

I'm with you guys. Actually those are my favorites characters from any suspense, horror or drama movie. They have those sweet angel faces, but deeply inside they're demons willing to destroy anyone. And though Chris have said he's going to be a supporting character, sometimes they're prominent in the storyline. And talking about the film, sometimes I wonder who actor is gonna be the lead role, I know the role is a doctor.

[Buenos]

Here is the thing that puzzles me even more...

Glee this year has fallen so dramatically in ITUNE sales it's not even funny. Over at the Glee forum they have a list of the top ITUNE sales for the year . Seriously it's like the top ITUNE sellers sell only 30 % of last year, I'm not kidding! Nobody claims anyone anymore is a cash cow , not even the Blaine stans because that has been completed punctured.

For example Chris' "Bring him home " charted higher than Darren's Queen cover of "Can't stop me now" for all that it's a show tune and had to compete against Lea's version too.

So if ITUNE sales are so negligible now, what is the risk of giving Kurt/Chris more songs, it's not as if they can falsely claim he sells far worse than other performers on Glee.

[Ireth]

Here is the thing that puzzles me even more...

Glee this year has fallen so dramatically in ITUNE sales it's not even funny. Over at the Glee forum they have a list of the top ITUNE sales for the year . Seriously it's like the top ITUNE sellers sell only 30 % of last year, I'm not kidding! Nobody claims anyone anymore is a cash cow , not even the Blaine stans because that has been completed punctured.

For example Chris' "Bring him home " charted higher than Darren's Queen cover of "Can't stop me now" for all that it's a show tune and had to compete against Lea's version too.

So if ITUNE sales are so negligible now, what is the risk of giving Kurt/Chris more songs, it's not as if they can falsely claim he sells far worse than other performers on Glee.

Maybe they look at the sales figures and see only what they want to see -that their song distribution plans are the best way to do it

[BlueJazz]

Here is the thing that puzzles me even more...

Glee this year has fallen so dramatically in ITUNE sales it's not even funny. Over at the Glee forum they have a list of the top ITUNE sales for the year . Seriously it's like the top ITUNE sellers sell only 30 % of last year, I'm not kidding! Nobody claims anyone anymore is a cash cow , not even the Blaine stans because that has been completed punctured.

For example Chris' "Bring him home " charted higher than Darren's Queen cover of "Can't stop me now" for all that it's a show tune and had to compete against Lea's version too.

So if ITUNE sales are so negligible now, what is the risk of giving Kurt/Chris more songs, it's not as if they can falsely claim he sells far worse than other performers on Glee.

@bolded Wow! This is unbelievably awesome Can you please post the list here (or maybe in General Glee thread), please? I'm intrigued to read it.

Honestly, I have no idea how the writers' mind works but I believe one of the reasons Chris sings so little on Glee is that they still think his voice is too unique and they're too lazy to find the right song for him Chris has always sung quite little on Glee and I think they're not willing to step out of their comfort zone. Sigh, maybe we should start tweeting lists of songs that suits Chris' voice to them...

OTOH, I read somewhere that RM sort of dissed Glee on his other show The New Normal. Does any of you watch it? Is that true? I wonder why he did that

[Glorfindel]

@bolded Wow! This is unbelievably awesome Can you please post the list here (or maybe in General Glee thread), please? I'm intrigued to read it.

There are several lists, but this is the one that was discussed most the past few days:

Let Me Love You (Until You Learn to Love Yourself): 48.401
The Scientist: 46.463 (plus 15.479 for its second week)
It's Time: 41.000
Give Your Heart a Break: 40.102 (plus 12.072 - 2nd week)

Mine: 31.248 (plus 9.578 - 2nd week)
A Thousand Years: 30.715

This is The New Year: 27.689

Love Song: 19.494

Don't Dream It’s Over: 18.985
Anything Could Happen: 18.192

Homeward Bound/Home: 17.626
Torn: 17.168

Some Nights: 16.696 (plus 12.745 - 2nd week)

Let’s Have a Kiki/Turkey Lurkey Time: 14.665 (plus 9.807 - 2nd week)

No Scrubs: 13.396
Locked Out of Heaven: 13.180

We’ve Got Tonite: 12.215
My Dark Side: 12.131

Whistle: 11.376

O Holy Night: 10.681 (110.048 in total since it's release in 2010)

Being Good isn’t Good Enough: 9.891

You're All I Need to Get By: Below 11K
(Not) Getting Married Today: Below 11K
Just Can’t Get Enough: Below 11K

Superman: Below 10K
Holding Out For a Hero: Below 10K
Heroes: Below 10K
Come See About Me: Below 10K
Live While We’re Young: Below 10K
Gangnam Style: Below 10K

Something Stupid: Below 9K (This could actually be below 6K)
All That Jazz: Below 9K
Being Alive: Below 9K

No certain numbers for the rest of the songs because no sales charts leaked those weeks. The Break Up sales surpasses all other episodes by a landslide.

x
In comparison: 'Rumor Has it/Someone Like You' sold 162.000 in it's first week (while the best selling song in season 4 sold 48.000).


And there's also this (from a poster on GF):

The only NY centric episode "TBU" ep. 4 was the overall best selling ITUNES week for Glee this year being the only one where all the songs (6) cracked the top 30.

4 out of the 5 best selling group numbers featured older cast members , including the best selling one "The Scientist"

Out of the 15 solos/duets to crack the top 50 in tunes, 6 featured the newbies , with one of those six also had Lea Michele (NY state of mind).

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