Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 8

[fantastica]

<... chewing on my favorite beef jerky...>

for me it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong. there's no point of arguing whether there is actual bias in the GF. if many of us see such a bias and don't feel comfortable posting there, then it is a reality for us. It is fine if it doesn't affect others who continues to stay there. i am not going back. i am happy here.

nobody is forcing anybody to stay anywhere. this is a free world. join a forum if you like the atmosphere there. it's a personal choice. no need to convince anybody else that what you feel is the same as what others should feel too. similarly, if someone feels uncomfortable there doesn't mean that he/she is 'wrong".

now back to my beef jerky...

[fantastica]

I love it that our only "mandatory" job is to love Chris!

i don't love chris. i adore him.  

[Stephanieeee]

I think the point is that GF isn't what it used to be.

Yes, there was a Blaine bias. I will freely admit that. I was part of it. I was a Blaine stan, I had a Blaine avatar, I'd post mostly about Blaine. I did my best not to moderate things related to Blaine but sometimes no one else was around. He used to be one of the favourites amongst the moderators, so we'd generally see a lot more that we found broke the rules when it was Blaine bashing than we did anyone else (because we saw it in discussions about him that we participated in, if we didn't read a Kurt thread then we didn't see any bashing about him because they weren't reported.)

The moderating team has changed drastically since then. I left for 6 months myself. Other mods left, lots of new ones were appointed. Generally speaking, our mods don't especially dislike any characters, but I wouldn't put Blaine as a particular favourite any more. Ryder is popular amongst the mods, as is Sam. But we have Kurt stans and Rachel stans and Tina stans now, so it's a lot less narrow. I have adapted my own behaviour too.

A lot of the issues you talk about are no longer existent. There is no CURRENT Blaine bias on GF. We simply don't care about him more than any other character now.

You say the Blarren stans have taken over? Well part of that is because all the Kurt stans left. I genuinely believe that if you all returned, you'd outnumber them lol.

I feel like you left because it was a bad time to be on GF and like Kurt but dislike Blaine back then. And because you left, you haven't been around to witness the change. But it exists.

[valkeakuulas]

I love it that our only "mandatory" job is to love Chris!

i don't love chris. i adore him.  

That's just a matter of evaluation. Is adoring more than loving or less? Can I only love without adoration? Oooh, maybe we should just all declare a philosophical discussion of how we love Chris to cheer up the mood in this S&B!

[fantastica]

p.s. i don't care if GF is totally bias free now. I won't go back partly because i am comfy here and all my friends are here and i don't have to deal w/ those pesky individual blaine stans and i can say whatever i want here. also, GF's software is too slow - beautiful but slow for my aging computer. i don't want to upgrade yet because I don't want to lose my good old windows 7. i hate windows 8, and i used to be a Microsoft fan girl.  

[Stephanieeee]

I use Windows 7 and it's fine, it'd be your internet more than anything.

Anyway, we're not here to recruit or poach members. Just felt the need to clarify a few things, so I hope people understand. And to anyone who is a member or lurker here and HASN'T been on GF, I wouldn't want them scared away by secondhand accounts of things that are no longer true, that's all.

[Molly2]

While I've certainly had my frustration with GF, I don't believe molly and steph would be here if they weren't trying to make it a more fun and fair place. Hats off to you both for that.

I think GF has gotten a particular reputation due to some poor choices for moderators in the past (ex BowtieBlaine) and from certain instances where mods caved to pressure from a very loud, fanatical group of stans.

The rules are the rules. I can respect and appreciate the desire to keep GF a mostly positive place. I think a larger board actually needs that. A smaller, character driven board like CCFF can get away with a snarkier atmosphere, but I can see how it would cause chaos on a larger, more general place like GF.

It is curious to me that someone can call another forum member a "retard" or a "troll" (behavior that would lead to an instant ban in most other places) and it takes 5 warnings before a ban, yet criticism of the GF in another forum leads to instant banning.

Hypothetically, a Blarren stan could personally insult me several times on GF, with only a warning, and should I complain about it over here,  said stan could spy and report me, and I would be the one banned. I guess you guys work with the rules set by the board, and no system is perfect.

Thank you, and I think you hit the nail on the head with some of what you said. I completely agree that there is a big difference between a large, extremely diverse forum and a forum for just one character/actor. It makes perfect sense that, given that you all pretty much share very similar viewpoints/support the same person, you can be snarky/negative and it's fine. GF has every character represented with fans and all hell would break loose if we let people be completely honest about any character/cast member. I am proud that GF is one of the few places people can go nowadays to escape the hate that pretty much every character has somewhere.

I also agree with the reputation thing, which is why I've expressed concern that some former viewpoints are spilling over to the current state, and also has probably led to my confusion and some of the contradictory viewpoints over mod bias.

As for the instant ban thing, you have a point, but we do give out double warnings or can make exceptions for greater punishments if deemed necessary. In my time as a mod, I haven't seen a single report for calling someone those things yet so I'm not 100% what would happen. But we don't tolerate the word "retard" for sure.

Anyway, like others have said, if anyone wants to visit/read/post on GF,fine, if not, that's fine too. All we ask is that you abide by the rules; the reason Stephanie and I came here was to explain why a few were insta-banned, because that has been a long standing rule. And again, anyone who has concerns about moderation or other posters or posts can PM me here or there or, if it's a post, report it. That's the best way to be heard.

Edit: EVERYTHING Stephanie said. I knew she could explain about the past better than me, but yes I truly, honestly believe there is no current Blaine bias on the mod team.

[kac]

You want to see a badly moderated forum? Try the comment section at IMDb, yikes. The Darren non fans go nuts there, I don't care for Darren, but they can get disgusting, truly repulsive at times. And it is the same for people who dislike Chris, or Jenna, or Amber. And a certain poster who is banned in most places runs free, she just changes her name every few months.

It makes me grateful for places like this and helps me to understand why GF might be so stern (I decided to maybe give it a try again and see if it really has changed). TWoP is another site that is moderated well.

[fantastica]

it's not my windows 7 that's slow. it's my old laptop that's over 6 yrs old and it's really OLD for a computer. if I upgrade to a new pc i will have to give up windows 7 because all new machines come w/ windows 8 preinstalled. I don't like windows 8 so i have to stick w/ my old pc for now.

can we talk about something else? If I left GF to stay away from the contraversy there, I don't want to see it brought over here. I don't want to see this forum becoming an extension of GF.

I understand you guys are here to "explaine" things, but people hold their own views if they are sure about what they see/feel. there's really no point to argue. you have the power to ban anybody you want over at GF because that's your turf. it's fair and square. we are here to talk about whatever we want, biased or not. we can't change anybody's opinion at GF, and i doubt anybody can change our opinions here at CCFF. let people be themselves.

i see things pretty straight forward and i really don't understand what the big fuss is. maybe right now there's no glee/chris related news so getting into a cat fight is at least a little bit of an advanture.  

[tanita_mors]

well you know, one of the reasons why you will rarely find me discussing glee forum these days , is because i haven't been on GF in a long long time. i know why i left it and if the atmosphere has changed, that is great. but total appreciation is not my deal. even here, most of my post have criticism - mostly towards the show and creators and some of the characters. i tend to leave the actors because i don't really know them and god knows that public behavior and someones real personality don't have to mach.

and glee has deteriorated. it's the sad truth. as someone said, now it's a bad spin off of the brilliant show it was in the first 2 seasons. i can adore the good, but when there is so much that is just plain bad, i can't just ignore it and pretend it isn't there. tv shows don't work because you only focus on the good, because noting would ever be canceled (and honestly, far to many brilliant shows get canceled that don't deserve it, while something as half asses as glee these days gets 2 year renewals)

[Stephanieeee]

You can install Windows 7 on any PC, old or new.

Anyway, you started talking about us first. We're happy to leave now that we've said our piece. And if anyone else ends up banned, at least we've explained why so there's no confusion.

[fantastica]

Ivana, if i dont' have anything bad to say about glee i have nothing else to say.  

now a days i only visit 2 glee related places: CCFF here and ontd-glee where I only read and not a member. i also hang out on many other forums, from cars to cooking; from cellphones to home improvement. there are other things in life that's also exciting. Glee is gloom. but you can always find real glee elsewhere.  

[coxfire]

You can install Windows 7 on any PC, old or new. Anyway, you started talking about us first. We're happy to leave now that we've said our piece. And if anyone else ends up banned, at least we've explained why so there's no confusion.

And it was nice of you to come and explain it to us, on a really polite and well-thought manner. I think the rules, which are banning someone who bash you site on a another forum, make sense. Now we all now that if someone bash on GF here, he'll be banned, but on an other hand, if people want to express here, in the S&B thrad their frustration, it's also valid. He will surely be banned from GF, but that's anyone choice to make. People might have started to talk about the GF first, but I don't think they should be scolded for it on this forum. Banning them from GF is enough, but don't try to prevent people to express their frustration elsewhere.

I do hope for the GF that what you say is true, an that the other mods are making the site more like it used to be and less what it became that sent people away.

[Stephanieeee]

Oh I didn't mean it like that. When I first posted, I said I didn't mean to derail the thread so I just pointed out that's the only reason we're here: because we were mentioned. But we'll leave now, I think this has been a frank discussion and hopefully we understand each other. You are obviously free to say what you like about GF if you so desire, it's only there that it'll matter. Free speech

[M&M]

So Glee got rid of 5 original cast and signed 5 newbs as regulars. They got rid of 5 (with Dianna) I pretty much liked to bring on 5 I don't. This show should just get rid of Chris, Lea, and Naya already and do what they want. I can be completely free of it then.

I knew when Alex was getting his picture for the promo shoot that he was definitely promoted to regular which meant the others were too. I think they are going to once again use (at least) the first half of the season to try to sell the noobs. I call bs that NY will be the focus of the second half because if there is a hint of people liking the new cast, RM will take it as confirmation that his "wonderful" idea paid off and he can keep it at McKinley. If that is indeed the case, look for Bland to stay in Ohio.

[valkeakuulas]

For nearly two years and more, every public Glee annoucements and press releases have induced hatred or sadness among the shows fans. It's really ironic that once such innovative people who created Glee can not see that what they are now doing is so far from what was originally intended.

More than anything I feel like they are not doing this show for the viewers anymore but to fullfill some sort of personal CV filler and ego booster.

ALL the actors suffer in the process, both old ones and the newbies. Newbies, because parts of the fandom, me included, will not give them a chance because I just don't want to. And the old ones because their efforts into building the huge interest and love for their characters isn't respected.

I'm getting depressed just thinking about that. I'm going to bed and dream of happier dreams.

[Ranwing]

I gave the noobs a chance. I actually like Kitty despite her uneven writing and I love Unique. The rest of them, however, bore me to tears. They had a full season to flesh out these characters and make them more than cardboard cutouts and if they haven't done it by now, it's never going to happen. And it's not totally on the writers (though I think they deserve a lot of them blame for making these characters just pale copies of the original cast). It's the actors as well, who've failed at every level to instill an iota of charisma or presence. Instead of being able to carry strong storylines on virtue of their own strength, the show has resorted to manipulative tricks to make the audience give a crap about them. Marley gets and eating disorder. Ryder was molested. The kids in the choir room fear for their lives when they hear a gunshot. And none of it matters at all in the end. Anything involving the noobs is met with a collective yawn.

I'm not going to waste any more time focusing on them and I'll resent every second of screen time that they (along with Chord and Darren) take away from better actors and characters. And I won't apologize for that.  

[fantastica]

obviously RIB wants to get rid of the originals. they could have extended the school year like they are doing now. they are so full of it. those rumors about cast/murphy tension around the time of S3 summer might have a lot of truth to it. Diana is the first one that got axed.

[Jellyrolls]

It's funny to go back and read this article from June 2011 where Ryan had his "Nobody wants to see a high school senior with a bald spot" quote.

Ryan Murphy on the (non-) 'Glee' news: 'Nobody wants to see a high school senior with a bald spot'


“Hello! I’ve been saying that for a year!”— that’s Ryan Murphy’s response to everyone going Internet crazy about his interview Monday on Ryan Seacrest's radio show in which the “Glee” creator said that some of the characters would be moving on from their New Direction days in keeping with the natural progression of their characters.

“A year ago, I said I think the best thing you can do on a show like this is not have eight-year seniors,” Murphy told ShowTracker. “Nobody wants to see a high school senior with a bald spot. We want to stay true to what ‘Glee’ is about, which is finding your voice and your place in the world; to stretch that out for eight seasons — though that might be lucrative for us — I don’t think would be fair to the fans. They expect growth in those characters.”

“It’s certainly sad in many ways, but it’s also exciting,” Murphy added. “Last year we brought in two new people, Chord Overstreet and Darren Criss, both of whom have gone on to do great things to the show. It was a test for me: Will audiences embrace new people? I think if the stories and the songs are good, they absolutely will."

Besides graduation, how does Murphy plan to have the characters make their exit? Perhaps Rachel Berry [Lea Michele] can audition for a spot on “American Idol” or “The Voice”?

“I think Rachel Berry should go on and get the lead in the new 'Funny Girl' show that’s being cast,” Murphy joked. “Let’s take her to Broadway! But, no, I'm not thinking about goodbyes. I’m thinking about hellos. We’re writing the first 10 scripts so we’re not there yet.”


Helping to pen those new scripts are six new writers: Allison Adler, Marti Noxon, Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, Michael Hitchcock, Matt Hodgson and Ross Maxwell have joined Murphy and fellow executive producers Brad Falchuk and Ian Brennan. And, Murphy insists, there will be no big guest stars: “It’s going to be about the characters and storylines — storylines for people we don’t hear much from, like Tina, Mike and Mercedes. Jane Lynch has an amazing 20-episode storyline we’re cooking up.”

And included in the beginning stages of the season will be a story arc featuring the winner of “The Glee Project,” currently airing on Oxygen. The reality series premiered June 12, the same day as the Tony Awards and the NBA Finals, to underwhelming ratings -- just under a half-million viewers — despite favorable critical response.

“I think we learned one big lesson which is don’t put a musical comedy reality show opposite the Tony Awards ... or the NBA Finals,” said Murphy, who’s keeping busy with the 'American Horror Story’ pilot for FX. “I was a little worried but I’m glad it’s bounced back. I hope it continues to grow.”

The second episode grew slightly to 527, 000 viewers.

“I felt exactly about “The Glee Project’s" performance as I did about ‘Glee,’” Murphy said. “It wasn’t until the third or fourth episode that people really started to sit up and pay attention to ‘Glee.’ I think a lot of that is word of mouth. I think people like to find things. They don’t like things shoved down their throats. And at the end of the day, I don’t really care. I love the show so much. I know that the episodes only get better. I’m excited about the potential of it.”

“The person who won I think is amazing and will be such a big star,” Murphy said.

And he’s not opposed to bringing back one of the eliminated contestants for a small role on the Fox show.

“I think that maybe we will,” Murphy said. “I’m editing an episode right now and I was like, [crap!] I should not have cut that person. I should have kept that person to the bitter end and they could have won. I never saw the other stuff. I only saw them come out and sing for me and based my decision on that. I do think in the judging I made one big mistake. Maybe I would have that person come in and audition for something because that person was just so talented. I won't say who!”

source

Reading this in retrospect, I have a few things to say/ask Ryan.

1. You're right, nobody wants to see a high schooler with a bald spot. You might want to look at Darren's head.

2. Yes, we expect growth in the characters, and we would like to continue to see growth in the characters we've loved for so long, not get to know a new batch of inferior students.

3. Ryan asks: "Will audiences embrace new people? I think if the stories and the songs are good, they absolutely will." Well Ryan, the audience has not embraced the newbies, and you're stories and songs are not good enough to interest the audience, especially not when the much more talented cast members we have known and loved since day one have been cast aside completely or used like they are supporting or guest stars instead of the stars they are (see Chris Colfer and Lea Michele's list of nominations and awards).

4. He said: "Jane Lynch has an amazing 20-episode storyline we’re cooking up." I'm guessing this is the congress thing, which was over in what about six or eight epidsodes? I can't imagine Glee actually carrying a 20 episode story arc. They can barely remember what happens from one episode to the next.

5. He says: "They don’t like things shoved down their throats." Let's make a list of things we don't want that have been shoved down our throat: One sided-Klaine storyline, DARREN CRISS, Blam, Blina, newbies.

6. “The person who won (the GP1) I think is amazing and will be such a big star,” Murphy said. So, was this a reference to Damian? Or Samuel? Who would have thought that out of the four people who got episodes on the show that Alex would be the one to wind up becoming a regular? It's really only because seeing him a dress made Ryan decide to do a transgender story. Unfortunately, Alex is not a capable enough actor to make the story compelling.

So this article came out about a month before the whole twitter/graduation gate thing. The newbies getting signed on as regulars is all about Ryan's hubris, and his desire to have things go his way. Chris, Lea, Cory, and Naya would be long gone already if Fox didn't make them stay. Ryan and Ryan alone is responsible for killing this show.

[valkeakuulas]

OK, realistically Falchuck, Murphy DiLorento and Brennan are still executive producers so they can, and by all looks of it, will do as they please. I think they are just showing their lack of attention and ability to look something they produce with a critical eye. Their money, their business I guess.

I just don't understand why do they have to blabber and try their damnest to cater everybody. They know the remaining old cast brings the money and that's why for me as a fan of many of the actors it feels bad. They need to make money and look, we have the "tools" to make us some more! Who gives a damn how these cash cows and media attractors might feel. Especially if they are yet again kept in a loose hang for an entire season.

I just watched Rachel and Kurt do the Tiffanys and For Good and it hurts, it hurts so much...they cannot create such joy and love anymore. :'( You guys are such good support group and I feel you understand the pain. Ugh!

[kac]

Last season it got to the point where I didn't care if I missed an episode, especially if I knew that it was focused on the new characters. I've said it before, the people I like are among the New York characters. If the next season really does concentrate on the high schoolers, I'm done. Even the hope at a glimpse of Chris will not keep me around.

Last year was appalling and I almost gave up, I just kept hoping.

Oh well, what is frustrating is that I can't produce my own shows , the kind I would like to see, I am at the mercy of the creators.

[Lottie2303]

You know what, I just grab the popcorn and will tremendously enjoy to watch RIB go down. There is no way in hell Glee will survive by continuing to cut down the old cast and highlight the Newbies.

We also should thank them, because actually it does show the staring power of Chris. By dismissing and partly eliminating him from the show (as well as the others), the audience is not interested in Glee. They just stop watching. Also RIB/FOX are so dismissive of the fanbase/media in the open, no one will ever blame the old cast. In case Chris has a clever management team (which I believe it is the case), they could actually string this nightmare into an advantage for Chris in the long run. We just have to survive until he is finally off this nightmarish show.

I have this hope that all the dismissed old regulars will become incredible successful in their fields. Not just because I wish them well, but because I just want see another 'Fuck you' to RIB and how they have no grasp of reality.

[fantastica]

w/o kurt, i have no patience for this high school musical crap. i can listen to all these pop 40 songs on billboard radio for free. the dance/walking around numbers are boring. nothing is new. whatever "conflict" there is is totally superficial and resolvable w/ a song. characters have no depth. i didn't follow any of hte mckinley part last year and I don't miss a thing. the only love conflict is cheating. i am sick of it.

[bayth]

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[Lottie2303]

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