Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 8

[ColferInspired]

chris can date/breakup w/ anybody he wants and it's non of anybody else's business.

So, true.

[sjonnepon]

I don't give one single fuck about GF anymore but,

when i posted something that's pro-Kurt, but not really pro-Blaine, i get a ban.

but when posters post negative about Kurt it's all good there.

oh and when a poster tells on the forum what a retard i am, then they don't get a ban. And what a coincidence! That poster is a Darren/Blaine stan.

So don't tell me that there isn't any bias on that forum.

[Stephanieeee]

ColdFlame, the user you're talking about (because I do remember that incident) was eventually officially warned due to a pattern of behaviour. Just FYI. Sometimes we don't edit/delete posts if we don't notice til a while later and the thread has moved on, but if we get multiple reports and complaints about the same person then they add up and eventually they will get warned if they don't adapt their behaviour.

sjonnepon, I don't know who you are on GF but no one gets instantly banned for saying something postitive about a character. No one gets instantly banned for anything other than spam or the talking about GF offsite rule. We have a system of 5 warnings before a ban. So something else must've happened if you were banned.

[sjonnepon]

sjonnepon, I don't know who you are on GF but no one gets instantly banned for saying something postitive about a character. No one gets instantly banned for anything other than spam or the talking about GF offsite rule. We have a system of 5 warnings before a ban. So something else must've happened if you were banned.

well the moderator told me that it was because i was negative towards 'a character or castmember' so it's bullshit that it was because i was negative about GF.

And sometimes i posted my opinion in the general spoilerthread, and yes, that wasn't always pro-Blaine, that were, maybe, 6 posts or something?

But! It was always ok for posters like Londengirl, sinnfb, maybeimamazed, ageofaquarius (blarrenstans)to post what a retard and troll i am.

[Stephanieeee]

Still not sure what mod would've said that. Goes against all our policies. Even if you said "I hope Blaine dies." you'd just get an official warning. Increasing warnings come with suspensions. What was your username?
So that's not how GF works. And the word "retard" is always edited out, if we see it. Personal bone of contention there, it is a foul word.

[CloveGlee]

The draconian and restrictive atmosphere at Glee Forum literally drove me out of the Glee fandom. Completely. I am sure that makes some people over there very happy. I don't mind saying it aloud now because I've moved on to Dragon Age and Dr. Who and I really don't care if I get banned at Glee Forum or not. I will never, ever post there again and I never stopped being bitter about the abrupt end to my recaps, which came without any warning at all in one of the worst examples of forum moderation I have ever seen in my entire life. You don't go from giving somebody awards for a particular kind of writing to banning it in less than a year without any warning or discussion. I waited six months to say that publicly, hoping I'd stop being mad. I didn't. I just stopped being afraid.

My daughter and I used to watch Glee together. She's 14. She's given up on it, too, and now we bond over Dr. Who. The phrase we used to discuss what has happened to Glee today: It has become its own bad spinoff.

Here is the great irony: In the year when Glee was not only good, but remarkable, it earned that reputation by being extremely irreverent, poking fun at hypocrisy, conceit, and conventional behavior of all kinds. When it's primary discussion forum now allows only rainbows and sunshine, it has strayed so far from its original concept and tone as to be absolutely unrecognizable.

[Stephanieeee]

We never banned your recaps. We simply closed one that was causing trouble. We even explicitly stated that you may continue to post them.

It was also later reopened.

[sjonnepon]

We never banned your recaps. We simply closed one that was causing trouble. We even explicitly stated that you may continue to post them.

It was also later reopened.

let me guess, she was critical of something Blaine did?

[Stephanieeee]

The problem was actually the Blaine fans defending him, which caused arguments.
We gave Clare permission to BREAK our rule and post negative/mocking statements of Blaine. His fans were permitted to defend him. Arguments ensued.
It was later reopened. And she was explicitly told she can post them.

[Vir Cotto]

In the land of Sunshine and Rainbows that GF clearly is, how does Bowtie Blaine fit in? Near the end of my run there, he would come in disrupt the KHAT, egg the posters on, and if they said something, run and report to the moderators. What was his reward for this? He was made a moderator himself, where he would do the same thing. He used to sit in the KHAT for days at a time, taking every opportunity to cause trouble and push the discussion off Kurt and onto Blaine, and again, when someone inevitably would say something negative about Blaine, he'd report them. A lot of Kurtsie abandoned GF over him. So please, don't try to spin the GF moderators as innocent crusaders for justice and fair play because we've already seen that they're not.

And btw, I remember CloveGlee's recaps being shut down because she was being "negative", not because the Blaine fans were causing trouble, so don't try to spin that one either.

[Molly2]

In the land of Sunshine and Rainbows that GF clearly is, how does Bowtie Blaine fit in? Near the end of my run there, he would come in disrupt the KHAT, egg the posters on, and if they said something, run and report to the moderators. What was his reward for this? He was made a moderator himself, where he would do the same thing. He used to sit in the KHAT for days at a time, taking every opportunity to cause trouble and push the discussion off Kurt and onto Blaine, and again, when someone inevitably would say something negative about Blaine, he'd report them. A lot of Kurtsie abandoned GF over him. So please, don't try to spin the GF moderators as innocent crusaders for justice and fair play because we've already seen that they're not.

And btw, I remember CloveGlee's recaps being shut down because she was being "negative", not because the Blaine fans were causing trouble, so don't try to spin that one either.

Maybe you didn't read my other post where I said I am talking about the forum right NOW. I said I am sorry if you had an unfortunate time 16 months ago, I didn't venture around the board much then so I would have no idea, but I am speaking about the moderating team RIGHT NOW. If it makes it easier, the moderating team during S4. And since people were directly talking about the forum's state now and saying it is currently run by Blaine/Darren stans, yes, it is appropriate to talk about the current team. FWIW BowtieBlaine is not a mod anymore and I don't think he has been for like a year, idk if you think he is or what.

Claire, it is a bit ironic that you say the restrictive atmosphere drove you off GF when you were given perhaps more leeway than anybody. I was not a mod when you were writing your recaps and I had no contact with mods and as a regular member I could clearly see you were obviously being given the leeway to break rules and speak about characters in a manner inconsistent with how most could. That being said, I LOVED your recaps in S3. I always looked forward to them and would check every day for new posts of it. I loved the show but your snark was hilarious and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

In S4, I noticed a direct change in your recaps, as they got (IMO) increasingly hostile. The snarkiness of your S3 turned into straight bashing and no longer seemed funny to me, so I simply stopped reading. I again wasn't a mod as I'm sure you know and wasn't going to say anything because I respected what you did and I mean I knew you were being allowed to write it so whatever. I just find it ironic that you of all people claim restrictiveness, when you for a season and a half were allowed to say things I could not.

sjonnepon, I came here to have a rational discussion, and you are making blatant accusations that are patently false. Once again you can not see who we have warned so to even throw out names and say that people were never warned, you have absolutely no idea. We just deleted a post last week that was insinuating bad things about Kurt fans, it didn't even say Kurt but the mods knew (even though most members probably wouldn't have) and we still deleted it, which among other things is why I find this ridiculous. Oh and it resulted in a warning.

I have no idea who would've banned you for saying something positive about Kurt because that makes zero sense and as Stephanie said goes against literally every single one of our policies. Since being a mod I have seen NOTHING like that ever happen so either you did something that warranted an instaban or you were very wrongly treated.

[CloveGlee]

I see that Stephanie is not aware of what happened in December. I received a private message from one of the admins informing me that I was not allowed to post the recaps anymore. I am not talking about what happened in S3, but in S4. Nobody ever gave me any feedback that the tone of my recaps was changing; they just suddenly told me I could not do it anymore and that I had been previously warned... which was quite untrue, and Stephanie herself has just given a pretty accurate description of the circumstances.

This is not generally public knowledge. I was afraid to say anything about it, but seriously, go back to the moderating forum and ask them. Ask the mod who calls himself Rachel Berry; we had an extensive, very polite and fair talk about it and he admitted to me that it probably wasn't handled very well. It's not actual the ending of the recaps that made me so angry, but the suddenness of it, with no warning at all.

Since I do not want to go back to Glee Forum anymore, I no longer care to keep silent. That being said, it's not like I am going to spend a lot of time arguing about it. I am going to assume that my tone got more hostile because the show got very much worse, and it's probably not healthy to spend that much time and effort on reviewing something that has turned into complete dreck.

[Molly2]

Rachel Berry is not a moderator anymore either, just fyi. And as you know I wasn't a mod then so I can't comment on how it was handled because I know nothing other than what you and Stephanie just said.

Oh and a separate note: I just looked through our warnings over the last few months and we've handed down several for the exclusive reason of bashing Kurt and Kurt fans. But please, keep telling me how this never happens.

[Jellyrolls]

Molly, thank you for expressing your thoughts, but I think you are missing the point here. You are saying that there is no Blaine bias amongst the moderators on the Glee Forum, and since I don’t spend much time there, I cannot say one way or another whether or not it’s true. But there are several posters here who have expressed the Blaine bias, and the coddling of Blaine fans is what has led to their frustrations with the Glee Forum. Some of them have given examples where they were warned while the comments of others seemed to be allowed to stay (though the posters here may not know if the other people have been warned by the GF mods).

So, while you say that there is not a Blaine bias on the Glee Forum, clearly there are many members here who do perceive that a bias does exist. Again, I don’t spend enough time on the Glee Forum to have my own opinion on this, and I am trying to be open minded to both sides of this discussion. I guess what I’m trying to say is that while you may not think a Blaine bias exists, clearly some members of the CCFF do think one exists, and it has caused them to stop posting on the forum.

What you need to understand is that there is deep rooted animosity and frustrations amongst many of the Kurt fans who were either banned from the board, or chose to leave because of the preferential treatment/coddling of Blaine stans. Now, I understand you say it doesn’t happen anymore, but it did certainly happen at one time, and some people here think that it does still happen (maybe not to the same extent as it did at the breaking point 16 months ago, but it seems like some people feel there is still a bias).

When I was talking about what lead to the creation of the CCFF 16 months ago, I was giving you background as to what lead many of us to leave that forum. In the beginning of this board, most of the posters here still actively posted on the Kurt threads on the Glee Forum because they felt that Kurt’s voice needed to be heard there. But slowly over the past year, I’ve watched one by one as our members here have said that they have stopped posting on the Glee Forum because they’ve grown weary of dealing with the Blarren stans. I just did a quick peak on the KHAT thread, and only about five people here who have posted on the thread in the past month.

There was a time when the KHAT thread was a vibrant and thriving thread. A quick look at the Glee Forum, and I can see that it is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) thread for an individual character/actor on the Glee Forum. But now it is not nearly as active as it once was (even with all of the excitement of Chris’ European trip, there are still only a few hundred posts for the entire month of June.

Now, I respect the job you do at the Glee Forum, and I respect your desire to keep the Glee Forum as positive of an environment as you can. I know it’s not easy to keep peace on a forum with a diverse members who span a wide variety of ages and cultures. I know that it is impossible to keep all members happy all the time with a diverse group, and that the moderators have to make decisions that are going to piss people off sometimes.

At the same time if it were my board, I would be asking myself what is it that lead to so many members who were once active within the community to leave to spend their time on other forums. I know you don’t believe there is a bias, but clearly a lot of people who post on this forum believe there is. If I were running the Glee Forum, I would be discussing it with my team to try to figure out why some people have that perception, and if there is anything that we could do to improve the situation so that people wouldn’t perceive the forum that way. As moderators, we sometimes have to take a step back from a situation, push our own thoughts aside, and really try to view things from the other side.

I do think that the root of the problem isn’t really with the Glee Forum itself, but with the Blarren stans. I think that the Blarren stans are just really good at getting under people’s skins and complaining until they get their way. The Blarren stans put Blaine and Darren on a pedestal, and talk about him like he is the greatest, most talented, best looking person the face of the earth (and to them, he maybe). In their eyes, if you don’t like Darren’s voice, or think he’s superemegafoxyhot, or you don’t think Blaine is the most perfect cupcake on the face of the earth, then you are against him. To them, if you express your opinion expressing that he you don’t like Darren’s voice or don’t think he’s a good actor or you don’t think Blaine should be with Kurt after cheating on him, then you are a hater, or, as some posters here have said they have been called, ridiculous, need to have your eyes checked, retarded, or a troll. We have experienced this not just on the Glee forum, but also on twitter, tumblr, and other places on the internet.

Many Blarren stans don’t respect that it’s all right for others to have opinions that aren’t shared with them. I love Chris and Kurt, but I know that not everyone is going to love him. I’m not going to go tell people they are trolls, or haters, or retarded for not liking Chris. (Though I do have to admit that I regularly call the Criss Colfer shippers idiots and ridiculous because their behavior is hurtful and hateful to Chris, Darren, Mia, and Will, but that is a whole different scenario).

Now, don’t take this as Kurt fans not every being at fault. I do think that we hold some responsibility for engaging in arguments with these fans when they get under our skin when it would often just be better to ignore them. But I do think that the Blarren stans behavior has driven us to that point.

I guess in the end that it’s just not an easy thing for Kurtsies and Blarren stans to peacefully co-exist in one place anymore.

[Molly2]

I don't doubt that something went down 16 months ago that led to so many KH/CC fans leaving Glee Forum. I don't question that there may have been a bias then. I honestly don't know. I rarely left the bubble of the Spoiler/Episode discussions then. I also recognize that there's been a decrease in the number of KH/CC fans on GF.

You keep saying I should take a step back and we should figure out why people felt this bias, but it's a two-way street. Perhaps some of the people complaining about the forum being worse but who don't really go there anymore or only go in KH/CC threads should also take a step back and realize that maybe just maybe the bias they perceived at one time by the forum mods might not be there anymore. People are naming moderators who no longer hold those positions and in one case hasn't for a year.

Stephanie and I wouldn't be spending our time attempting to have rational discussion on here if we weren't concerned about these opinions, so I think this review thing is already going on. I mean, I wouldn't still be here if I was just like "whatever who cares what you guys think." I offered an open invitation for anyone to contact me privately here or on GF (username Melissa Benoist) if they would like to discuss their concerns with me. So far, no one has. Our team could have a much better discussion if people shared specific, more recent concerns. Clearly, I am open to this.

I also believe we've already made some of the changes you say we should consider making from hearing these opinions. That's what I keep trying to say. We warn Blaine/Darren stans. We delete things that bash Kurt/Chris or his fans. If people don't want to give the forum another chance, fine, but I can't help you then. If you think we still haven't changed then please, PM me.

Also, two different people last night posted in the KH appreciation thread saying they like that GF strives to maintain a positive atmosphere amongst all the hate elsewhere even if they themselves aren't that happy with Glee, and said they don't feel at all that discussion is restricted. That is the other side, and we get that sentiment expressed quite a lot actually.

[tanita_mors]

don't mind me....



... carry on

[Molly2]

Also I think a problem might lie in that some people who just stay in the KH/CC Appreciation thread use it as a place to talk about (often negatively) the entire show. That is not the purpose of our appreciation threads, which are only meant to talk about the character/ship at hand and other discussion kept to a minimum. It's just how our forum works. Sometimes the things people write would be perfectly fine in many of our other sections/threads and then when it is edited it is misconstrued into thinking that GF is just censoring all negative opinions when that's not the case (and even if we explain). Criticism/negative opinions are posted every day in other sections, such as General Glee Discussion, Episode Discussions, Upcoming Glee Episodes, with no problems at all.

Even if people were singing the praises of other characters in a different character appreciation thread if we saw we would likely intervene that discussion is getting off-topic.

[tanita_mors]

on a serious note, i think the biggest problem was that glee forum changed. when most of us posted there, we did it because it was a great place to discuss glee, to agree and disagree about the show we love. then, you guys, the mods, decided that all that was exceptable was joy and praise and non stop positivity. that isn't what i want to talk about. and while the constant harassment of blaine stans drove me away (bowtie blaine being the front runner), your forum stoped being the place i wanted to post because it changed from what i loved about it, to a place where non stop appretiotion is expected. that isn't how you advertised youself. that isn't what a general forum should be about. in my opinion of course. in the end it is yours that matters given it's your forum.

the same thing happened in the choir room to with marie can attest. what was advertised as a exclusive general glee forum, turned into "bash everyone but darren/blaine" when all members realised that the whole moderating staff was consisted of blaine/darren fans who couldn't take criticism but could bash everyone else. the things i red about finn and cory on that forum would make you sick. and soon after that change, every non blaine fan got banned without so much as a note as to why.

so i'm used to it. that is why we have only one rule on this forum. you don't bash chris colfer. you may not always like his work or what he says or who he dates, but you will respect his person on this forum as we are all fans of him. everything else besides bashing each other is permitted. and we were never advertised as anything else but a chris colfer fan forum.

personally, i find it pathetic to ban members because they complain on other forums/sites/message boards and such, but if that is your policy, that is it then.

enjoy CCFF.

[opals]

While I've certainly had my frustration with GF, I don't believe molly and steph would be here if they weren't trying to make it a more fun and fair place. Hats off to you both for that.

I think GF has gotten a particular reputation due to some poor choices for moderators in the past (ex BowtieBlaine) and from certain instances where mods caved to pressure from a very loud, fanatical group of stans.

The rules are the rules. I can respect and appreciate the desire to keep GF a mostly positive place. I think a larger board actually needs that. A smaller, character driven board like CCFF can get away with a snarkier atmosphere, but I can see how it would cause chaos on a larger, more general place like GF.

It is curious to me that someone can call another forum member a "retard" or a "troll" (behavior that would lead to an instant ban in most other places) and it takes 5 warnings before a ban, yet criticism of the GF in another forum leads to instant banning.

Hypothetically, a Blarren stan could personally insult me several times on GF, with only a warning, and should I complain about it over here, said stan could spy and report me, and I would be the one banned. I guess you guys work with the rules set by the board, and no system is perfect.

[valkeakuulas]

I love it that our only "mandatory" job is to love Chris!

I often don't have the energy to say anything/a lot and I'm glad that I can only concentrate on one guy/character. OK considering how many OT conversations I've taken part and started then it might not be exactly true. So a big forum might not be suited for me either.

I think we as a group are quite adapt at taking in the negative and at the same time are not afraid to also say negative things out loud. And I personally wouldn't want it any other way.

Some self reflection: I did find the big bald spot discussion few days ago a bit off taste but I wouldn't condemn the people talking about it. I probably would see us discussing Chris' possible bald spot the same way, none of Kurtsies would feel bad about talking something that would be obvious. (This was a crude example of the level S&B gets to every now and then. ) Aaand I noticed even I think Kurtsies would be "better", which I'm sure is not the truth at all.

[fantastica]

<... chewing on my favorite beef jerky...>

for me it doesn't matter who is right or who is wrong. there's no point of arguing whether there is actual bias in the GF. if many of us see such a bias and don't feel comfortable posting there, then it is a reality for us. It is fine if it doesn't affect others who continues to stay there. i am not going back. i am happy here.

nobody is forcing anybody to stay anywhere. this is a free world. join a forum if you like the atmosphere there. it's a personal choice. no need to convince anybody else that what you feel is the same as what others should feel too. similarly, if someone feels uncomfortable there doesn't mean that he/she is 'wrong".

now back to my beef jerky...

[fantastica]

I love it that our only "mandatory" job is to love Chris!

i don't love chris. i adore him.  

[Stephanieeee]

I think the point is that GF isn't what it used to be.

Yes, there was a Blaine bias. I will freely admit that. I was part of it. I was a Blaine stan, I had a Blaine avatar, I'd post mostly about Blaine. I did my best not to moderate things related to Blaine but sometimes no one else was around. He used to be one of the favourites amongst the moderators, so we'd generally see a lot more that we found broke the rules when it was Blaine bashing than we did anyone else (because we saw it in discussions about him that we participated in, if we didn't read a Kurt thread then we didn't see any bashing about him because they weren't reported.)

The moderating team has changed drastically since then. I left for 6 months myself. Other mods left, lots of new ones were appointed. Generally speaking, our mods don't especially dislike any characters, but I wouldn't put Blaine as a particular favourite any more. Ryder is popular amongst the mods, as is Sam. But we have Kurt stans and Rachel stans and Tina stans now, so it's a lot less narrow. I have adapted my own behaviour too.

A lot of the issues you talk about are no longer existent. There is no CURRENT Blaine bias on GF. We simply don't care about him more than any other character now.

You say the Blarren stans have taken over? Well part of that is because all the Kurt stans left. I genuinely believe that if you all returned, you'd outnumber them lol.

I feel like you left because it was a bad time to be on GF and like Kurt but dislike Blaine back then. And because you left, you haven't been around to witness the change. But it exists.

[valkeakuulas]

I love it that our only "mandatory" job is to love Chris!

i don't love chris. i adore him.  

That's just a matter of evaluation. Is adoring more than loving or less? Can I only love without adoration? Oooh, maybe we should just all declare a philosophical discussion of how we love Chris to cheer up the mood in this S&B!

[fantastica]

p.s. i don't care if GF is totally bias free now. I won't go back partly because i am comfy here and all my friends are here and i don't have to deal w/ those pesky individual blaine stans and i can say whatever i want here. also, GF's software is too slow - beautiful but slow for my aging computer. i don't want to upgrade yet because I don't want to lose my good old windows 7. i hate windows 8, and i used to be a Microsoft fan girl.  

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