Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 12

[MissSoniaPP]

I was reading your comments about Ryan's twitter and I is that they are talking
Then I read better what Ryan wrote and Ok I get it

[AnneNeville]

Btw, thank you for the information on the BTS world of theater! I am in love with the performing arts, literature, and especially the film world. It's a bit heartbreaking to hear how ugly things sometimes get in that world, even if the finished product---the art----is thrilling and beautiful. I always knew that things could get ugly, but to hear it confirmed from an acual insider is just...ugh. One has to have thick skin to work in that field.

You are welcome. It's been heartbreaking and disorienting to me, too . . . especially since it doesn't have to be this way. And please, don't peg me as an "insider" -- I don't have a right to such a label. I've just been working in the field for a long time, but I have no special avenues of information or power or influence. I don't want anyone to mistake me for a source for information about the show.

People in other professions may chime in--I expect that my experience is not unusual. It's just that if you are lucky enough to get "high up" (and "high up" is different depending on where you are!), you meet more mean people. More people who were mean to get where they are, and more people who are terrified that they are slipping and will do anything to hold on to their rung on the ladder.

What is sad about theatre is it is back-breaking work, and the prevailing attitude is "you should be grateful to even be here." IE, working for free or almost nothing. :-( If you decide to go into entertainment, talk to a lot of people and demand that they tell you the truth.

[AnneNeville]

Anne, are you in the east coast or west coast? i hope you can get on glee set one day and working w/ chris in person and give us some insider's scoop!

I am in NYC. :-)

ETA: BTW, if--for instance--Glee actually moved production to NYC and I got on the Glee set, I wouldn't be able to give any kind of insider info on Chris or anyone. My work on TV has been as an extra, and (as I've been posting in the many, many tumblr asks I answered today) shows are very careful about what they put out there.

If an extra talks about/spoils what they see during a shoot, they'll never get hired again. I can talk about what happened or how things worked after an episode aired, but not before. And if I talked about the actors, I'd be in deep trouble.

Before I knew of the existence of Kerrie the Troll, I wrote this hypothetical post about what it is like behind the scenes on the show:
http://annenevillereviews.tumblr.com/post/45590002807/i-have-seen-people-on-forums-publishing-this

It activated my rage. Note: my behind the scenes tour is also a complete fabrication based on my observation of what happens on set here in NYC on different shows (including Smash, which is similar enough in complexity to give me an idea of Glee, I think).

[fantastica]

oh we are pretty close! i am in Queens. Lately I have been locking myself in the apartment to avoid the pollens. Last year I ventured out, for Chris(t)'s sake, by waiting outside for hours to see him at the Tribecca premier. Jelly(Karen) was there too, and she saw how miserable I was. this year i am not stepping out at all except for minutes at a time to move my car. I would still go out if Chris appears here, but i will buy a heavy-duty gas mask first.

i hope you will get a chance to see chris when he comes to NYC for outside shoots. try to look for extra work for glee!

[MoviesAreLife]

oh we are pretty close! i am in Queens. Lately I have been locking myself in the apartment to avoid the pollens. Last year I ventured out, for Chris(t)'s sake, by waiting outside for hours to see him at the Tribecca premier. Jelly(Karen) was there too, and she saw how miserable I was. this year i am not stepping out at all except for minutes at a time to move my car. I would still go out if Chris appears here, but i will buy a heavy-duty gas mask first.

i hope you will get a chance to see chris when he comes to NYC for outside shoots. try to look for extra work for glee!

You poor thing! Try antihistamines! I think I am recently coming down with hay fever, so I feel your pain.

[MoviesAreLife]

Part of me being upset about this whole thing is seeing how many people are suckered into buying their way into the arts--how many are forking over fortunes for BFAs and MFAs--and who are in no way prepared for what the business is really like. Glee did a wonderful thing by showcasing outcasts. It is NOT doing a wonderful thing by making every Glee club member have dreams of fame and immediately and easily rising to the top (including Kurt's impossible Vogue internship).

Fame (the TV show) handled this stuff much better. Anyone here watch it as an anecdote to Glee?

I have several friends who are professional actors in one capacity or another and all would say the same thing – it is the most brutal business in the world because you are always being judged (and almost always found wanting). Try out for a part and in the instant the director sees you on stage at the cattle call, you’ll likely be rejected before you have a chance to show what you can bring to a part. That you will be too young/too old/too ethnic/too short/too fat/too skinny before you even open your mouth. And that most exceptionally talented performers will never become big “stars”. If you are very fortunate and really work hard and network well, you can become a consistently working actor. It might not mean big roles on big stages, but directors will like you and want to hire you on a regular basis. Enough so that you can pay your rent on a regular basis.

The reality is that the odds are very, very much against Rachel even becoming a consistent working actor. Her skill set is very, very narrow. She is an amazing singer with certain genres but not all. She is, at best, a passable actress (so long as the part is the young ingénue roles that she gravitates towards). She is a horrible dancer and would rightly be rejected for any part that has any real dancing requirements. Physically, she is short, dark and ethnic, which would cause some directors to automatically dismiss her from consideration for certain roles (she would never be cast as Ulla from The Producers on this alone). Her body of experience is, to be generous, limited. Except for WSS, she has never been cast in any other productions (I remember in season one that when she brought up all her community theater auditions there was the acknowledgement that she never was cast in any part). Show Choir isn’t really something that would impress a Broadway director. While her resume might have a lot of stuff on it, there’s actually very, very little that would actually translate to being employable to a director.

So the odds of a girl with almost no experience being as the lead in a major Broadway production (where millions of dollars in production costs are on the line)? Pretty damn steep. And happens more on tv than in real life. Sure, there have been instant stars that get plucked from obscurity, but most actors have to spent years working tiny parts in crap off-off-off Broadway productions before they get anything close to a big break. And many shows would rather hire a known performer whose name on the marque will fill seats over a talented no-name. Once you look at Rachel’s higher aspirations, to be a star on the level of Barbra? The odds against her are astronomical.

I think that the show has been a lot more honest with showing just how hard show biz is with Kurt. Yes, he’s gotten a few very lucky breaks, but most of the time he’s been treated pretty harshly. Despite being one of the singular talents in ND, he was never rewarded for that talent or dedication with a competition solo. The directors of WSS judged him as being too girly for any significant part despite acknowledging his amazing audition. He got passed over for admission for NYADA for a more easily marketable talent in Rachel. He’s discussed many times how hard it is, how harshly he gets judged. The odds against Kurt are very clear because he’s already been shown for missing out on things because he’s been judged as not being right for a part.

I don’t have a lot of beef about so many members of ND either having performance career aspirations of one kind or another from the very start (Rachel, Kurt, Tina, Mercedes, Artie) or who by being in ND discover a desire to make it their career (Santana, Quinn, Mike). School performance programs will always be a draw for those with a desire to perform so it made sense for ND to become the catch all for the arty, musically inclined kids.

Don't all of these things make her an underdog?

[AnneNeville]

oh we are pretty close! i am in Queens. Lately I have been locking myself in the apartment to avoid the pollens. Last year I ventured out, for Chris(t)'s sake, by waiting outside for hours to see him at the Tribecca premier. Jelly(Karen) was there too, and she saw how miserable I was. this year i am not stepping out at all except for minutes at a time to move my car. I would still go out if Chris appears here, but i will buy a heavy-duty gas mask first.

i hope you will get a chance to see chris when he comes to NYC for outside shoots. try to look for extra work for glee!

I live in Forest Hills, actually, so also Queens. I'm not sure who casts extras for Glee, and they have to post fake show titles on their permit signs to keep from getting mobbed (and it still doesn't work).

If you are over 18, it is very easy to register to become an extra. You will learn a LOT, if you are in the right setting. You just have to be super-responsible, show up with the right clothes, and not break the rules. There are a lot of shows shooting in NYC now that need "over 18 to pass for highschool" and "college age."

If you have the right "look" and are responsible, you, too, can earn a little over minimum wage!

[AnneNeville]

Don't all of these things make her an underdog?

Not if she defies all the odds and gets the prize on her first try.

[Ranwing]

If Rachel actually does experience some real and signifigant defeats, then she might qualify as an underdog because right now, she does have a lot of real challenges that stand in the way of her achieving her goals. But they aren't insurmountable challenges. She could buckle down at NYADA and focus on developing her craft so that having NYADA on her resume actually means something. She could focus on building up her dance skills to become at least a competant, if not accomplished dancer (at least as much as her natural abilities will allow her). She could spend her summers out of school working in community theater, taking roles in small productions and putting some real accomplishments that would mean something to a Broadway director when he/she is trying to decide if he/she wants the multi-million dollar production to fall on Rachel's shoulders. As for the rest (Rachel's appearance and height shutting her out of certain parts) is just the reality of the theater world. But it hardly only applies to Rachel. I can't see Kurt getting signed for a production of Porgey and Bess either (because he would stand out like the palest sore thumb in a normally all-black cast). No actress is suitable for all parts.

The problem with Rachel's status of underdog is that the show plays both sides of the fence here. She rarely, if ever, really suffers any real defeats. And when she does have shortcomings that threaten to hold her back (like butchering her NYADA audition), the show twists the other characters and bends things over backwards to turn the loss into a win. Rachel was, rightly, pegged as the weakest dancer in Cassandra's class. She not only wasn't really learning (which I still argue was partly due to a lack of application outside of class), but her attitude was awful. She was directly challenging Cassandra, demanding (not earning) credit for improvement up until the very end. Did she suffer any real consequences, like failing the class and not being allowed to progress to the more advanced classes? Not that we know of. What we saw was her get a highly exclusive invitation to perform at the Winter Showcase, decide that her strong suit was singing and shrugged off any legidimate arguements that Cassandra had and ended up rewarded with being the first freshman ever to win Showcase. Her challenges and setbacks never mean much of anything because two episodes later, they'll be erased by an even bigger and better victory. There's a reason why Rachel gets slapped with the Special Snowflake label.

[Ranwing]

I live in Forest Hills, actually, so also Queens. I'm not sure who casts extras for Glee, and they have to post fake show titles on their permit signs to keep from getting mobbed (and it still doesn't work).

Seriously? I used to live near Forest Hills (in Briarwood, just past the courthouse on Queens Blvd). Spent a whole lot of time in FH. My favorite comic shop used to be on Austin Street (was made into a Japanese grocery story last time I was in the area) and there was this great cajun place down by the Barnes & Nobel. Ahhh.... memories....

[MoviesAreLife]

^ I agree with both of you that Rachel winning her dream role right now would be too much, too soon. This is a more of a series finale type of event, and not a season finale move. There are plently of other things she can do (bit parts, smaller roles, community theater...and so on) that will ready her for the big role of her career. Perhaps the ready-made dream role is just a red herring, and Rachel will end up originating something interesting and career-defining on off-Broadway or something. Like how Idina Menzel was cast as Maureen in RENT off-Broadway, then the show was moved to Broadway, then she got Tony nominated for Best Supporting Actress. Alot of people forget she had a career before Wicked.

Rachel's struggles are more in her personal life and her awful taste in men and have little to do with her professional life. Also, she does tend to rub people the wrong way, and always seems to have trouble with witchy women who hate her guts (Santana and Quinn in high school, Cassie in freshman year in NYADA, the ballerina in sophmore year at NYADA, her dance classmates). She is awkward and I think she means well, but doesn't have friends for the most part. Women just don't seem to like her, and no, it's not always a jealousy thing. She does act arrogant still (though I think she's gotten better since high school) and that is a turn off for a lot of people, especially if you don't know where that arrogance is coming from (as I said, I think she overcompensating for insecurity).

And when she does face defeats (NYADA audition, showdown with Kurt...although she was more horrified by her own behavior in that last one) , she does tend to crumble. I'd like to see the role go to someone else so that Rachel can re-group and recommit to her dreams and show herself that she does have the strength to go after that Fanny Brice role a few years down the road. I'd like to see her not fall into the "my life is over" rut that she sinks into whenever something doesn't go her way. And if she does lose out on something, I'd also like to see that loss stick in a realistic manner, as heartbreaking as it can be sometimes. That's life.

I also agree that Rachel is the weakest dancer in Cassie's class, but I do not agree with Cassie's destructive, counterproductive "teaching" methods. I think the classroom should be a place of mutual respect. A learning environment that bashes and lowers the self esteem of a student does more harm than good. I do not blame Rachel for being defensive toward Cassie and her offensive antics. Cassie just went too far and got too personal with her "mission".

[Ranwing]

I don't agree at all with Cassandra's methods, but I understand the rational why she treats her students as such. As I said earlier, she runs her class like boot camp. These are supposed to be advanced students preparing to move on to a pro career, not beginners dance class. Part of why she is hard on them is thicken their skins a little bit, because if they do move on to a pro career, being called "Muffin top" or "Schwimmer" are probably some of the kinder insults that they'll have to face. But then it won't come from a mean teacher who's class they are free to walk out of. Then it's going to come from a director who will technically be their boss and if they mouth off to their boss, or quit because they don't like the way they're being treated, it could badly damage their professional reputations and make it harder to find work down the road. Sometimes you have to just take shit that your boss levels at you if you want to work. It's not fair and it sucks, but that's the real world. And Rachel has shown many, many times that she cannot handle not being treated like a hothouse flower.

[AnneNeville]

I don't agree at all with Cassandra's methods, but I understand the rational why she treats her students as such. As I said earlier, she runs her class like boot camp. These are supposed to be advanced students preparing to move on to a pro career, not beginners dance class. Part of why she is hard on them is thicken their skins a little bit, because if they do move on to a pro career, being called "Muffin top" or "Schwimmer" are probably some of the kinder insults that they'll have to face. But then it won't come from a mean teacher who's class they are free to walk out of. Then it's going to come from a director who will technically be their boss and if they mouth off to their boss, or quit because they don't like the way they're being treated, it could badly damage their professional reputations and make it harder to find work down the road. Sometimes you have to just take shit that your boss levels at you if you want to work. It's not fair and it sucks, but that's the real world. And Rachel has shown many, many times that she cannot handle not being treated like a hothouse flower.

EXACTLY.

[MoviesAreLife]

Sadly, now that I've had my eyes opened to how things are in the entertainment industry (although, I've always had a feeling), you're right about Cassie's behavior being small potatoes compared to some of the nastier people in that world. I suppose her class mirrors bootcamp in that it tries to break your spirit down (build your spirit up? depends on who you are taking to) in order to prepare you for something difficult and in order to transform you into something almost superhuman: a killing machine or a living, breathing artist. Not a mere human being. The performing arts is a tough industry, and I suppose this is her way of weeding out the weak willed and the faint hearted. In the long run, I think she thinks she's doing them a favor by helping them get thicker skins. And the horrible boss thing is sadly true in every line of work out there in the real world, not just onstage. And yes, almost everyone who is at the top in any industry has either had to either deal with or pull a lot of nasty shit in order to get to the top. God, I feel so cynical!

But while I see some teachers as being tough but fair, Cassie is underhanded and makes her attacks personal. And while Rachel should'nt have to be treated like a princess at all times (like with her dad's), I don't like seeing her being treated like a dog either. Perhaps there is a medium ground?

[AnneNeville]

Sadly, now that I've had my eyes opened to how things are in the entertainment industry (although, I've always had a feeling), you're right about Cassie's behavior being small potatoes compared to some of the nastier people in that world. I suppose her class mirrors bootcamp in that it tries to break your spirit down (build your spirit up? depends on who you are taking to) in order to prepare you for something difficult and in order to transform you into something almost superhuman: a killing machine or a living, breathing artist. Not a mere human being. The performing arts is a tough industry, and I suppose this is her way of weeding out the weak willed and the faint hearted. In the long run, I think she thinks she's doing them a favor by helping them get thicker skins. And the horrible boss thing is sadly true in every line of work out there in the real world, not just onstage. And yes, almost everyone who is at the top in any industry has either had to either deal with or pull a lot of nasty shit in order to get to the top. God, I feel so cynical!

But while I see some teachers as being tough but fair, Cassie is underhanded and makes her attacks personal. And while Rachel should'nt have to be treated like a princess at all times (like with her dad's), I don't like seeing her being treated like a dog either. Perhaps there is a medium ground?

There is. It might be interesting for you to check out the TV show Fame which is available on Hulu. They got a much more realistic balance.

[MoviesAreLife]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

[AnneNeville]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

[MoviesAreLife]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

Cool! Thank you! I will check it out! I think that is how they are trying to get Carmen to come across (despite her surprise audition with Kurt, her cutting that girl from the program on the first day of school). I believe she is supposed to be stern, scary, but fair and honest. She is intimidating, but doesn't attack students personally and sink down to a petty level in order to "win" over them.

[AnneNeville]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

Cool! Thank you! I will check it out! I think that is how they are trying to get Carmen to come across (despite her surprise audition with Kurt, her cutting that girl from the program on the first day of school). I believe she is supposed to be stern, scary, but fair and honest. She is intimidating, but doesn't attack students personally and sink down to a petty level in order to "win" over them.

It's funny--because I find Carmen to be even more sadistic than Cassandra!

[MoviesAreLife]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

Cool! Thank you! I will check it out! I think that is how they are trying to get Carmen to come across (despite her surprise audition with Kurt, her cutting that girl from the program on the first day of school). I believe she is supposed to be stern, scary, but fair and honest. She is intimidating, but doesn't attack students personally and sink down to a petty level in order to "win" over them.

It's funny--because I find Carmen to be even more sadistic than Cassandra!

I can see why! But it must be Whoopi for me. She just has this...firm but not hateful aura about her. But given her canon actions and what RIB have written for her, I can see why you would find her sadistic.

[AnneNeville]

I've never seen the TV series before! But I did watch the original film (and that awful remake)!

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

Cool! Thank you! I will check it out! I think that is how they are trying to get Carmen to come across (despite her surprise audition with Kurt, her cutting that girl from the program on the first day of school). I believe she is supposed to be stern, scary, but fair and honest. She is intimidating, but doesn't attack students personally and sink down to a petty level in order to "win" over them.

It's funny--because I find Carmen to be even more sadistic than Cassandra!

I can see why! But it must be Whoopi for me. She just has this...firm but not hateful aura about her. But given her canon actions and what RIB have written for her, I can see why you would find her sadistic.

I mean, she accepted Kurt halfway through the school year. Meaning he missed all the foundational courses (like Ballet I!) and must be working his little butt off to catch up. It's not like conservatory programs work like regular colleges where you can transfer in at any point. You're on a track.

[MoviesAreLife]

My husband and I really enjoyed watching Fame (the tv show) on Hulu. You'll find better balanced teachers there. Tough but honest.

Cool! Thank you! I will check it out! I think that is how they are trying to get Carmen to come across (despite her surprise audition with Kurt, her cutting that girl from the program on the first day of school). I believe she is supposed to be stern, scary, but fair and honest. She is intimidating, but doesn't attack students personally and sink down to a petty level in order to "win" over them.

It's funny--because I find Carmen to be even more sadistic than Cassandra!

I can see why! But it must be Whoopi for me. She just has this...firm but not hateful aura about her. But given her canon actions and what RIB have written for her, I can see why you would find her sadistic.

I mean, she accepted Kurt halfway through the school year. Meaning he missed all the foundational courses (like Ballet I!) and must be working his little butt off to catch up. It's not like conservatory programs work like regular colleges where you can transfer in at any point. You're on a track.

Really? I didn't know that. Poor Kurt. That must be why he has no butt. I hope he enjoyed those cookies he made for Rachel!

[ColferGirl]

You know what kind of annoys me....

In the promo for 4x20, there's a scene of Blaine at an aerobics class. I know it's part of his plot to get Sue back (although the sheer amount of Blaine there will be in the final three episodes alone is irritating), but my point is that there's a sex riot going on on tumblr because of those brief shots of him in that aerobics class.

I know there was a sex riot of sorts for when we saw Kurt in his own aerobics/exercise moment in 4x17 (especially because we saw more of Chris's skin than ever before). But I hate the blatant objectification of Blaine/Darren's body on this show, over and over. His aerobics scene is deliberately more "stylized" and "sexy", while Kurt's was deliberately quirky and cuter and not meant to be as flattering (thus it's his guilty secret). It feels like just another slight against Kurt in the on-going Blaine vs. Kurt portrayal comparison game.....even if it's not what the writers intended - in their minds the two ways the characters are seen exercising probably has no comparative connection at all - but I still see it and it bothers me. The show's frequent camera shots of Blaine's butt and other blatant objectification moments of him make it even worse (like the unnecessary shower scene during Fighter back in season 3).

Not that I want Kurt to be all about sexiness and objectification, I don't, I love that he's a character of substance. But I wish that the writers/camera people would let up a little on their Blaine-glorification. I know it's great for his fans and they should feel free to squee over those objectifying scenes all they want, but for those of us not so fond of Blaine, it's pretty tiring when it happens so frequently.....

Sorry, had to get this complaint off my chest....

At least we're finally going to get a new Kurt/Isabelle scene next week! And hopefully we'll get at least two of them, not just one. The brief Hummelberry moment looked super cute as well. Finally an episode to look forward to.

I can't wait to hear At the Ballet on Sunday night, especially since they recorded the full version! And seeing it performed next Thursday.

[MoviesAreLife]

You know what kind of annoys me....

In the promo for 4x20, there's a scene of Blaine at an aerobics class. I know it's part of his plot to get Sue back (although the sheer amount of Blaine there will be in the final three episodes alone is irritating), but my point is that there's a sex riot going on on tumblr because of those brief shots of him in that aerobics class.

I know there was a sex riot of sorts for when we saw Kurt in his own aerobics/exercise moment in 4x17 (especially because we saw more of Chris's skin than ever before). But I hate the blatant objectification of Blaine/Darren's body on this show, over and over. His aerobics scene is deliberately more "stylized" and "sexy", while Kurt's was deliberately quirky and cuter and not meant to be as flattering (thus it's his guilty secret). It feels like just another slight against Kurt in the on-going Blaine vs. Kurt portrayal comparison game.....even if it's not what the writers intended - in their minds the two ways the characters are seen exercising probably has no comparative connection at all - but I still see it and it bothers me. The show's frequent camera shots of Blaine's butt and other blatant objectification moments of him make it even worse (like the unnecessary shower scene during Fighter back in season 3).

Not that I want Kurt to be all about sexiness and objectification, I don't, I love that he's a character of substance. But I wish that the writers/camera people would let up a little on their Blaine-glorification. I know it's great for his fans and they should feel free to squee over those objectifying scenes all they want, but for those of us not so fond of Blaine, it's pretty tiring when it happens so frequently.....

Sorry, had to get this complaint off my chest....

At least we're finally going to get a new Kurt/Isabelle scene next week! And hopefully we'll get at least two of them, not just one. The brief Hummelberry moment looked super cute as well. Finally an episode to look forward to.

I can't wait to hear At the Ballet on Sunday night, especially since they recorded the full version! And seeing it performed next Thursday.

I didn't even notice Blaine was there! All I saw were the women!

[ColferGirl]

^

I follow several nice Klainers on tumblr, so I've seen them reblogging gifs of him in that scene so there's no way I would have missed it, but I noticed him too when I saw the preview.

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