Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 12

[AnneNeville]

Sure, there have been instant stars that get plucked from obscurity, but most actors have to spent years working tiny parts in crap off-off-off Broadway productions before they get anything close to a big break. And many shows would rather hire a known performer whose name on the marque will fill seats over a talented no-name. Once you look at Rachel’s higher aspirations, to be a star on the level of Barbra? The odds against her are astronomical.

For an "instant star" plucked from obscurity, I give you Douglas Sills (Sir Percy Blakeney, The Scarlet Pimpernel on Broadway, 1998 Tony Awards):



He was Tony nominated (Best Actor in a Musical) and the discovery of the season. He was also 37 years old and had just decided to go to law school when he landed this "career launching" role. He had everything from Sondheim to Shakespeare under his belt. I can tell you he is one of the most charismatic live performers I've ever seen.

Since then, he's practically vanished.

I'd like to see some examples of actors who were plunked into leading roles--lifted from obscurity, so to speak--who didn't actually have connections and experience.

Sutton Foster was very young. But--at the very least--she was in the chorus of The Scarlet Pimpernel on Broadway before she landed Millie.

[sheny]

4x21 Stills

[Jellyrolls]

So I'm guessing Mike and Kurt are there to teach the New Directions something.

At least he's not sitting with Blarren here.

I like the outfit. Very relaxed for Kurt.

[Lottie2303]

I love Kurts outfit. Generally, I LOVE his style in S4. I also wonder if Artie may graduate early? He seems to get focus as he is sitting with the graduates. Get him to NYC and ditch the rest of the cast.

[fantastica]

if anybody is graduating early it's Brittany. Heather won't be able to come back this summer/fall unless Brittany is officially pregnant.

[tanita_mors]

how about a cock ring ryan. seams right up your alley.

[Glorfindel]

^Hahahaha, right?

-Cassie returns. Yuck. She is nothing but a spiteful, mean, bitter and hateful woman. They say she will do something to try to screw up Rachel's audition, and I believe it. How did someone so petty and unprofessional become a NYADA teacher? Look, stern but firm (how I believe they want Carmen to come across, despite the odd writing choices for her) is fine by me. But this woman is just awful. She is cruel. And yes, Rachel is not the best dancer and she does need to realize this...but if I had someone like Cassie picking on me (not "teaching me") during my class, I'd get defensive as well. Is this sort of Sue teaching method normal in the performing arts?

I am not an actor--but my career has been in theatre/entertainment backstage and in academia for 17 years. I'm leaving because of the instability (career-wise) and frequent meanness I've found in both aspects.

From what I've seen, no, Cassie's level of forthright meanness is not typical of acting teachers. I don't know about dancing teachers--I would think they are a lot more strict due to possibilities of injury. Someone with experience in that arena can speak up.

What I *can* say is that the longer I've worked in theatre, the more incredibly mean and belittling people I've met. The higher up I worked, the meaner people got. Not all of them. But enough of them. I've had fellow interns at a low-level PA job try to convince my superiors that I was doing substandard work (I wasn't--and I had to confront her and tell her that it was our bosses's job to reprimand me, not hers, and that she wasn't to do it in public anymore).

I've had child-actors who I saw sabotaging their own child-understudies, who'd pick a "target" and try to get them fired (a ten year old, I'm talking about).

I've worked with directors who hated women. Directors who believed that "chaos" and "distrust" is the best way to get creative results. I've worked with directors--as a research and writing assistant--who publicly belittled my work (the research that led to the central idea of the show that was eventually written) and came back three days latter and presented it word-for-word as their own inspiration.

I have watched as people tried to seduce friends of mine -- men these women would NEVER be interested in -- just because they thought he might have some pull. And watched him get heartbroken because he didn't understand he was being used.

These do NOT make up the majority of the business. Some of the nicest people I've worked with have also been the most famous and successful (though I am in no way implying that I've worked with hundreds of super famous people--I haven't. But I've worked with a few).

However, Cassandra is no where near as mean as the people Rachel is going to encounter in the business. And she is *right* about Rachel's limitations. She is *right* when she says that if Rachel crumbles just from getting Cassie's criticism, she's going to have a hard time making it in a field where one mistake is remembered (and even behind the scenes mistakes are never forgotten, talked about in the Bway bars after-hours, and turn people against you!!).

Cassandra is a mean woman. And certainly, there are mean people teaching performance. Not enough that I'd say it is a typical style (though some of those Method people will really destroy you, their MO is not Cassie's), but they are there. And Rachel needs to learn how to deal with mean people--and sabotaging people--without crumbling, if she wants to make it in the business.

She needs to know her type. And it's specific and very narrow. I know a woman who was a great actress who was turned down from an MFA, and when she called to ask why, she was informed that it was because she "has the face of the leading lady and the body of a character actress" -- they couldn't be sure she'd ever work, so they felt it was immoral to admit her for acting-training despite her talent. These are the GOOD ones.

Rachel needs to know how to navigate behind the scenes politics VERY astutely.

She needs to know how to work with difficult and toxic people without crumbling, while still smiling, and without turning into a monster herself (this is why I am turning theatre/performing arts into a hobby -- I never got a hard shell -- I was shocked and hurt every time I met the bad apples).

Rachel needs not to commit career suicide (and--frankly--auditioning for Fanny at 19 with no skills is pretty dumb--she could be the laughing-stock of that casting company/production company with "Don't Stop Believing").

Ok--this rant is way too long. Glee is a fictional world, after all--one where a Rachel Berry could even get an audition for Fanny, where she'd be allowed to sing more than a few bars (unless DSB is already a callback song).

But to answer your question, no, that level of meanness is not a typical for teaching acting (from what I have seen). It IS indicative of the kind of meanness Rachel is going to encounter in the profession, over and over. If she can't learn from Cassie, who has legitimate lessons to teach, and she can't find a way to work with someone like Cassie (we don't hear about Kurt having a problem with her), then Rachel is going to have a very hard time in the business.

I can confirm almost all of this. The showbusiness is a hard world. There are people with big egos, jealousy and insecurities, and sometimes they teach. Especially when they are performers who were 'downgraded' and 'forced' to teach because their careers didn't take off or are over, these people can be awful teachers.
OTOH there are also teachers who are brutal, strict, critical but honest and good, and they just want to prepare you for the real world out there.

Most teachers and showbizz people are nice, but definitely not all of them, and your seemingly best friend can stab you in the back when you both go after the same role. Actually: Rachel is a prime, exact example of some of my classmates in the conservatory and peers when I was still auditioning.
Cassandra is not the average teacher, but teachers like her do exist. And honestly: when you don't ruffle their feathers they can teach you a lot. (not that I condone their behaviour of course)

-ETA-
One of the worst things of Glee for me is the unrealistic way they show auditions, preparations for competitions, practically everything involving the art of singing and performing itself.
Rachel being a serious candidate for 'Funny Girl' is ridiculous: it's 10 times less realistic than Kurt getting that internship at Vogue.

[Jellyrolls]

Wow. Someone who makes Blarren look tall.

[Ranwing]

For an "instant star" plucked from obscurity, I give you Douglas Sills (Sir Percy Blakeney, The Scarlet Pimpernel on Broadway, 1998 Tony Awards):



He was Tony nominated (Best Actor in a Musical) and the discovery of the season. He was also 37 years old and had just decided to go to law school when he landed this "career launching" role. He had everything from Sondheim to Shakespeare under his belt. I can tell you he is one of the most charismatic live performers I've ever seen.

That’s exactly the point I was making. Most of those “discovered stars” actually had been working their asses of for years in productions that get little notice. The ones who came into a big role after working in a shoe store or right out of school are very, very rare (and more figures of myth that reality).

Another example I’ll bring up is Adam Lambert. He worked in theater, toured Europe with a theatrical company, worked in cabaret shows and held down numerous odd crap jobs to support him. He never got his big break through normal channels and ended up finally getting it when he decided to try out for American Idol (and nearly didn’t make the final cut because some of the judges found him to be too theatrical in his performance style).

Since then, he's practically vanished.

How sad. But again, that’s not all that unusual. One hit wonders happen in all fields and you sometimes have to count yourself as lucky to get one really successful show under your belt. A really successful actor is not necessarily one who gets a big starring role, but one who manages to find work consistently over years (even if the parts are small ones in smaller production).

I know her fans make a big deal out of Lea’s Broadway career and I’m not going to take anything away from her, but we’re not talking about someone who became an enormous success. She was cast as a child for a very small role in Les Miz, then played some supporting parts until she was cast in Spring Awakening. But she wasn’t a huge, huge name, never played a major lead role (even her part in Spring Awakening was a supporting role) and wasn’t nominated for any of the major theater awards (Tony, Drama Desk). Again, am not taking any of her success away from her… just keeping things in proportion.

I'd like to see some examples of actors who were plunked into leading roles--lifted from obscurity, so to speak--who didn't actually have connections and experience.

There just really aren’t that many. To come in cold, with no major theater experience and be cast in a major part these days? With productions running into the multi-million dollar range to do even a relatively small show? I really cannot think of any real examples in recent years.

[Ranwing]

4x21 Stills

That's right BB. Stay as far away from the greasy hobbit as you can. No need to get gel stains all over your lovely outfit (or risk having him humping your leg like a demented schnauzer). Now show the noobs how singing is really done. If their tastes haven't been utterly destroyed by the endless cycle of Blarren, Melatonin and Bram performances.

[AnneNeville]

if anybody is graduating early it's Brittany. Heather won't be able to come back this summer/fall unless Brittany is officially pregnant.

I'm expecting that she'll get her college admit and decide to get a GED. Then we won't see her--except perhaps by skype--until after Heather's had her baby.

[valkeakuulas]

I love that my tablet is saving my head today and cuts out today most of the McKinley kids from the spoiler photo. :-)

Kurt looks extra relaxed with that outfit, not only does it look good but shows Chris'/Kurt's best assets. (Wishing that the Tee is tucked in and the vest cropped and short.) And I seem to have fallen in love with brogues.

Casual dressing in Lima? Maybe Burt's in hospital and he doesn't have the time. Although why would he then be in McKinley? Oh yes the kids STILL need propping up! And I don't remeber Kurt looking disheveled during Grilled Cheesus either.

It's just good to see him actually being in an episode instead of justusing him to promote s*it.

[AnneNeville]

That’s exactly the point I was making. Most of those “discovered stars” actually had been working their asses of for years in productions that get little notice. The ones who came into a big role after working in a shoe store or right out of school are very, very rare (and more figures of myth that reality).

Sutton Foster is another "discovered Broadway star." Here are two videos to show her singing/dancing:

Gimme Gimme


Forget About the Boy


Now--in all honesty--is Rachel (or Lea, for that matter) at this level of singing, dancing, or acting?

And the resume of this "sudden discovery"?

Age at the time of her star-making role: 26 or 27 in 2002

Reason for getting the big break: During the out-of-town run, she replaced the person who was originally intended to be the lead.

Past roles:

• Contestant on Star Search (15 yrs old)
  
• Left high school because she was cast in Tommy Tune's tour of the Will Rogers Follies.
  
• Understudy Sandy in Grease in 1996 (age 21) on Bway
  
• Chorus member in Scarlet Pimpernel in 1997-98 on Bway
  
• Star to Be in Annie on Bway
  
• Understudy Eponine in Les Mis on Bway (2000)
  

Important Connections: Hunter Foster--her older brother by 6 years--is a well known Broadway actor, as well as a librettist and playwright. Hunter Foster was already playing the Rum Tum Tugger in CATS on tour in 1992. His bio page doesn't make it clear which shows he did on Broadway and which were on tour, but he was very active in the years leading up to Sutton's Bway debut. He was the understudy Danny in Grease in 1994--the same Broadway production that Sutton became U/S Sandy for two years later.

Undiscovered talents don't come out of the ether. The closet I can think of is Chad Kimball in his surprise star turn as Milky White in the revival of Into the Woods. He got a LOT of press for that, and it was *almost* his Broadway debut.

[AnneNeville]

Seriously, Ryan Murphy? SERIOUSLY? Are you out to destroy Darren's credibility in the business?

[fantastica]

it's funny i thought about cock rings a few days ago when you guys were talking about the engagement ring stuff, but now Ivana became my spokesperson! murphy seriously desires Criss doesn't he? it's so gross!

[AnneNeville]

It's getting so explicit and unsubtle that I'm beginning to wonder if they are on the outs, now. I can't believe that RM would post something so . . . transparent . . . considering the rumors that are already going around.

[fantastica]

oh his passion is growing day by day...... to the point that he can't hide it anymore..... "who cares!" says Murphy, "I must declare my love for thee!"

ewwwwwww

[Lottie2303]

Ryan Murphy also tweeted about Come What May and the Klainers freaked out. See how that turned out... There must be a catch. If this would conclude in a sincere reconciliation, they would never ever spoil it. Right now I am more inclined of those two getting friendzoned than a couple again.

BTW Chris and Darren are shooting scenes since days. I really hope they finally managed to write some Kurt scenes and to give give side of the story. It is a shame we never got to see more of heartbroken Kurt (just rewatched TBU and Chris acting is so good!), but I want to hear his side! If they ever want me to give Klaine a chance again, they have to give this to us. They cannot be that deaf about the criticism about the treatment of Kurt (lets just ignore the fact that Kurt doesn't get any focus at all when he isn't around Blaine or Rachel).

ETA: The scenes most likely include all the group shoots. I believe Klainers are actually in for a major disappointment. Nothing will live up to the hype and we still do not know how the persons around him react regarding the proposal. We might be all positively surprised.

[Glorfindel]

The choir room in Lima is one big fetish and wet dream paradise for Ryan now (Blaine, Sam, Ryder, Jake, nude calendar, hero costumes, Blaine's love for Sam).
It's quite obvious.

[Jellyrolls]

That’s exactly the point I was making. Most of those “discovered stars” actually had been working their asses of for years in productions that get little notice. The ones who came into a big role after working in a shoe store or right out of school are very, very rare (and more figures of myth that reality).

Sutton Foster is another "discovered Broadway star." Here are two videos to show her singing/dancing:

Gimme Gimme


Forget About the Boy


Now--in all honesty--is Rachel (or Lea, for that matter) at this level of singing, dancing, or acting?

And the resume of this "sudden discovery"?

Age at the time of her star-making role: 26 or 27 in 2002

Reason for getting the big break: During the out-of-town run, she replaced the person who was originally intended to be the lead.

Past roles:

• Contestant on Star Search (15 yrs old)
  
• Left high school because she was cast in Tommy Tune's tour of the Will Rogers Follies.
  
• Understudy Sandy in Grease in 1996 (age 21) on Bway
  
• Chorus member in Scarlet Pimpernel in 1997-98 on Bway
  
• Star to Be in Annie on Bway
  
• Understudy Eponine in Les Mis on Bway (2000)
  

Important Connections: Hunter Foster--her older brother by 6 years--is a well known Broadway actor, as well as a librettist and playwright. Hunter Foster was already playing the Rum Tum Tugger in CATS on tour in 1992. His bio page doesn't make it clear which shows he did on Broadway and which were on tour, but he was very active in the years leading up to Sutton's Bway debut. He was the understudy Danny in Grease in 1994--the same Broadway production that Sutton became U/S Sandy for two years later.

Undiscovered talents don't come out of the ether. The closet I can think of is Chad Kimball in his surprise star turn as Milky White in the revival of Into the Woods. He got a LOT of press for that, and it was *almost* his Broadway debut.

I saw Hunter Foster in Urinetown on Broadway. He's fantastic.

Totally random, but Sutton was once married to Christian Borle, who is Tom on Smash.

[Jellyrolls]

Not for anything, but could all the talk of Chris and Darren being on set together just be total fan pandering to get the Klainers excited? I mean, whose to say that three of the six days they were there were for choir room scenes and that they'll wind up having just a few scenes together.

[MoviesAreLife]

Cassie does have some good qualities. Her supportive nature toward her former student (the boy who got cast in Wicked) was touching. Even her attitude of understanding towards Rachel after her "You're just jealous of all of us!" outburst was quite mature and insightful. Maybe this is her way of preparing her students for the real world of theater (take a lot of ugly shit without losing your cool the way she did), but I still can't get over the fact of how...mean and disrespecful she is toward her students who are paying to be there. I see respect as a two way street and teachers are not automatically better than their students and allowed to treat them with such disgusting behavior. You can only push someone so far before they start pushing back.

Btw, thank you for the information on the BTS world of theater! I am in love with the performing arts, literature, and especially the film world. It's a bit heartbreaking to hear how ugly things sometimes get in that world, even if the finished product---the art----is thrilling and beautiful. I always knew that things could get ugly, but to hear it confirmed from an acual insider is just...ugh. One has to have thick skin to work in that field.

Maybe this is just my Rachel-loving bias talking, but when her ego is not out of control, I see her as a sweet and sincere character. Am I crazy for saying this? Maybe it's Lea's wide eyed, Disney voiced, adorably prissy ingenue way of acting Rachel...but I think she has a good heart, loves her friends, and does realize she wouldn't be where she is right now if it wasn't for her friends. I also believe she secretly knows she is not the most talented in all aspects of performing...I actually think she is insecure as hell, and believes her singing voice is all she has going for her, so she milks it for all its worth. It's kind of sad. I do like seeing her get knocked down a peg when her ego blows up (Kurt's snark in "Diva" was hilarious!) but I don't think there is anything hilarious about the way Cassie treats Rachel. She even went out of her way to sleep with a boy she was interested in and bragged about it when Rachel called just to mess with her head. That to me is unbalanced behavior. And yes, Rachel gets defensive in dance class sometimes...but what is Cassie's excuse for acting so immature and playing high school politics? Rachel is a student, and Cassie is a teacher. She needs to start acting like it.

And in the beginning, Rachel made a face, horrified at the way Cassie rudely called a classmate "muffin top". Cassie saw that horrified (rightfully so) face she made and zeroed in on her. Also, is it appropriate for a teacher to teach a class while drunk? Maybe Rachel should not have called her out on her unprofessional antics, but I feel that Cassie has deep personal issues she needs to work on before teaching anyone ever again. And in the beginning of the season, Rachel was working hard and rehearsing, trying to impress Cassie. But maybe she gave up, thinking nothing she would do would impress her, and just went back to focusing on her strongest skill (her voice?) Before she became mostly defensive toward Cassie's treatment, Rachel came across as apologetic...like she didn't want to be on Cassie's bad side. She said that she was there to learn and not there to tell her how to run her class, she even said she wanted to push herself to be the best Cassie's ever seen (some might call this arrogant, but I saw it as determined). She tried to be nice to Cassie, even trusting her with the whole "Glease" mess and trusting her not to screw her over....and that came to bite her in the butt. Now? Yes, Rachel is defensive toward Cassie and her attacks, but I think I would be, too, if some teacher was zeroed in on bullying me like that. I guess this is why I love the performing arts only as a hobby....

A legit calling-out on Rachel's lack of dancing skills (and I think she can get better with enough practice) is a great thing. Rachel is a great singer, decent actress, and poor dancer and I'd like to see that weaker skill get beefed up on. But I also think Rachel would be more open to learning if Cassie was more patient, less hateful and didn't attack her in such personal ways (making fun of her Jewish nose, sleeping with Brody, and so on).

[AnneNeville]

I saw Hunter Foster in Urinetown on Broadway. He's fantastic.

Totally random, but Sutton was once married to Christian Borle, who is Tom on Smash.

Yes! And he's another connection that Sutton had before getting cast in Millie. Then, after Sutton made it in Millie, Christian was brought in to play Jimmy.

I've extraed on Smash a lot, so I've been seeing a lot of Christian Borle lately. :-) I first saw him perform in Elegies--"My Dogs" is . . . unforgettable.

[AnneNeville]

Not for anything, but could all the talk of Chris and Darren being on set together just be total fan pandering to get the Klainers excited? I mean, whose to say that three of the six days they were there were for choir room scenes and that they'll wind up having just a few scenes together.

That is highly likely. 4x22 has regionals, and I suspect that Kurt will be in the audience. It takes a LONG time to film those big scenes. Then there's the choir room stuff, which also has to be complicated. It is hard to imagine the size of the crew for these things, or how much they have to move things around to get the shots they need.

If you watched The Good Wife episode called "Defense of Marriage" or the one last week on rape, I was in the gallery. It took three days to film the courtroom scenes for the first episode, and two days to do the courtroom scenes for "Rape: A Modern Perspective" (or whatever 4x20 was called).

Those were 11-14 hour days. And if you watch the episodes, the courtroom scenes take up a very small fraction of the episodes.

[fantastica]

Anne, are you in the east coast or west coast? i hope you can get on glee set one day and working w/ chris in person and give us some insider's scoop!

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