Re: General Glee Discussion Thread-Part 2

[fantastica]

i never watched it, but happy to see RM's ego gets chopped off a bit.

[ColdFlame96]

i never watched it, but happy to see RM's ego gets chopped off a bit.

I saw the finale and that was it. I liked Brian.

[sheny]

I'm a little sad about "the new Normal". It was a good show, there were some boring episodes, but Andrew (Brian) was great. He was the only reason I watched it actually. But maybe now that Ryan has only two shows to concentrate on (Glee and AHS) he will do something to bring Glee's old quality back. If they keep presenting us this joke they call a show in season 5, they will lose all the viewers that are left and get cancelled too.

I don't know how things work in this industry but can FOX change their decision for season 6 and cancel Glee after season 5 if the low ratings continue?

[AnneNeville]

I'm a little sad about "the new Normal". It was a good show, there were some boring episodes, but Andrew (Brian) was great. He was the only reason I watched it actually. But maybe now that Ryan has only two shows to concentrate on (Glee and AHS) he will do something to bring Glee's old quality back. If they keep presenting us this joke they call a show in season 5, they will lose all the viewers that are left and get cancelled too.

I don't know how things work in this industry but can FOX change their decision for season 6 and cancel Glee after season 5 if the low ratings continue?

Most likely, yes. As I've gathered, it is highly unlikely that the show was really, truly renewed for two years, no questions asked. It's probably a 1 + 1 renewal (they've renewed for one year, with option of renewing for a second), or (if this isn't the exact same thing) they ordered season five, but if they want out, they can scratch season six just by paying a penalty. I'm not speaking as an expert here--I've just been reading the discussions on other sites around the net, and this explanation makes sense to me.

[ColferInspired]

I'm a little sad about "the new Normal". It was a good show, there were some boring episodes, but Andrew (Brian) was great. He was the only reason I watched it actually. But maybe now that Ryan has only two shows to concentrate on (Glee and AHS) he will do something to bring Glee's old quality back. If they keep presenting us this joke they call a show in season 5, they will lose all the viewers that are left and get cancelled too.

I don't know how things work in this industry but can FOX change their decision for season 6 and cancel Glee after season 5 if the low ratings continue?

Well, a couple of weeks ago "Touch" that was also renewed is now not. So, maybe Fox can change their minds about renewing a show.



I think if this is the case this should give RIB something to think about it. I am guessing Fox put a clause in the contract for the two other seasons to get them out of it if they want to.

[arina]

If the writers won't change the direction of the show significantly for the better the ratings will be faalling lower and lower and I doubt Fox would let them to have six season if the ratings were really bad. You know they had little chance with the finale, I've heard in the past about tv shows where the whole season was rather weak but because they made really interesting finale with actually thrilling cliffhanger people were curious and of course they came back (and other people who heard about it...) But what Glee did? Lame season ended with even more lame finale that did not actually seemed like finale episode at all. There was nothing. Why would someone think that finale like this would make people want to come back is beyond me. finale is supposed make me feel like "how am I supposed to wait for so long? I want to see the follow-up now!!!"...

(Because I knew it was the last time we see heather on the show I was little sad during her speech (I took it more like her goodbye than Britanny's) but that was it.)

[glimmerle]

@Glorfindel: Great post, I completely agree.

I don't know how things work in this industry but can FOX change their decision for season 6 and cancel Glee after season 5 if the low ratings continue?

Yes, it seems like they can still cancel the show anytime they want. Like AnneNeville I've been looking up related discussions on some other sites and the major points for FOX in renewing the show for two seasons at once seem to be that a) they don't have to go through the hassle of renegotiating with the huge cast and crew again after season five and b) they most likely got better conditions.
Depending on the ratings of the show, FOX probably would have to pay a smaller or bigger penalty if they wanted to get out of their contract, but if Glee really tanks completely that could still be cheaper than dragging this pretty expensive show along till the end of season six.

Lame season ended with even more lame finale that did not actually seemed like finale episode at all. There was nothing. Why would someone think that finale like this would make people want to come back is beyond me. finale is supposed make me feel like "how am I supposed to wait for so long? I want to see the follow-up now!!!"...

I think they overestimated the impact regionals and the Wemma-wedding would have on the audience. I mean, a wedding of two (former) pivotal characters and an important competition ending in a win at least sound like season finale material. But the sad fact is that pretty much nobody cared for those storylines anymore due to the lame writing and if they did care, it still felt like those developments were unearned and lacking built-up.
Imho they also overestimate the draw of Blaine's proposal storyline. A (supposed) main character pondering a proposal in theory has some good cliffhanger-potential. But again, the storyline was handled so badly that nobody except for the most rabid Klainers actually cares for it or wants them to go through with it. Some of the audience probably didn't even notice Blaine held that ring box in his hand at the end of the episode, so there virtually is no cliffhanger for them.


ETA: On a related note - I just read an article about Heather's exit from the show and I'm wondering if this is true:

Heather Morris is not under contract for season five. Neither is any other actor in the cast. Sources confirm that the whole cast is up for renegotiations after season four and those new contracts will be worked out over the summer, before production begins again in July.

If so, what - if not contractual negotiations with the cast and their representatives - took them so long to renew Glee in the first place? And how elaborate was Murphy's pitch for the two upcoming seasons, if it's still not clear who'll be coming back and in which capacity?
Ongoing negotiations throughout the summer certainly would explain why some cast members had their PR-teams working extra hours lately.

[AnneNeville]

I don't like at all that some of the "blame" is even indirectly targeted at Chris because in a show that is studio produced, professionaly directed and shot the actor doesn't have that much leveradge. Just like you said arina, Chris is being directed at every scene and director also has to deal with the editor and then approve everything with producers. No way does Chris have any say in that chain of command.

I think this kind of speculation comes from the fact that no one can seriously believe that a studio professionals are agreeing with this kind of monster of a shows excistance as it is. Looking for someone to blame is just wrong! Looking for a reason in the most visible part of the show ie. an actor is singling out because it's an easy way of trying to find reason out of this chaos. (Not blaiming anyone here, I know this subject came up with a quote.)

An actor can do only so much with crap. I suspect Kurt's screentime, fully Kurt related, speaking time without songs this season must be less than 30 minutes so calling Kurt vague by those minutes sound fishing. I wonder now that the season ended if someone has counted those precious minutes.

No, it's not fair that Chris is being blamed. It is possible for actors to have flexibility in how they interpret their characters. Chris got very few lines this season, and it's been made obvious that the writers didn't know where they were going with the story, so he did what he could.

Without many lines, Chris as an actor might have chosen to show himself as less-than-enthused by Blaine consistently, and the directors might not have paid that close attention. They are different every episode, after all. He does have agency. I will say that, in my limited experience on set, I rarely heard the directors give in depth notes to actors on how to interpret their characters unless said actor was struggling or said director was VERY GOOD at talking to actors (ERIC STOLTZ FOR THE WIN).

That said, the final product is the creation of many different people from the writers, to the actors, to the directors, to Joaquin the Director of Photography and Shill, to the editors and sound people. If anyone in that chain had wanted Chris Colfer to do something different, they would have HAD him do something different.

Actors may not have much power, but they do have some power in the way they portray their parts. The thing is that there are OTHERS who can step in and force a change.

So in the end--yes, perhaps Chris can be credited for making Kurt seem indifferent to Blaine, perhaps he chose to throw shade on the pair. But the bottom line is that if the Powers that Be had been dissatisfied, they could have directed him differently, reshot a scene (this happens!), used different footage, or given him some actual lines that forced him in a specific direction.

They didn't. So, whether or not the acting choices were primarily Chris's, the directors and producers at least THOUGHT they were getting what they wanted.

And I think "what they wanted" was "so little that it can go any direction once we make up our mind."

[AnneNeville]

They could've totally brought the Warblers, and by extension Sebastian, back instead of the Waffle toots.

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

[AnneNeville]

I'm only posting this to prove that all those morons on Tumblr and AfterElton who say awful things about Kurt and Chris for not even looking at Blaine in the Breadstix scene are not only the world's biggest idiots but also blind. Here we have Kurt looking at Blaine. Will that satisfy them so they can shut up and stop criticizing Chris or his acting choices?

It is good that that shot exists, because ironically the Klainers would have a better argument for "Kurt still likes Blaine" if he never looked at Blaine in the entire episode. They could say that his feelings were too strong or something like that.

[ColdFlame96]

They could've totally brought the Warblers, and by extension Sebastian, back instead of the Waffle toots.

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

I believe they explained that there was a scandal and they for disqualified. And I know it's good to use different choirs, but I really wanted to see Grant Gustin on my screen again.

[AnneNeville]

They could've totally brought the Warblers, and by extension Sebastian, back instead of the Waffle toots.

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

I believe they explained that there was a scandal and they for disqualified. And I know it's good to use different choirs, but I really wanted to see Grant Gustin on my screen again.

Can't blame you for that. His scenes with Kurt were really good.

[ColdFlame96]

They could've totally brought the Warblers, and by extension Sebastian, back instead of the Waffle toots.

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

I believe they explained that there was a scandal and they for disqualified. And I know it's good to use different choirs, but I really wanted to see Grant Gustin on my screen again.

Can't blame you for that. His scenes with Kurt were really good.

So much wasted Kurtbastian potential...and chemistry. I still find it laughable that the writers plan to promote Seblaine failed horribly and instead launched a new Kurt ship that is probably as big as Klaine, but much less vocal.

[AnneNeville]

They could've totally brought the Warblers, and by extension Sebastian, back instead of the Waffle toots.

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

I believe they explained that there was a scandal and they for disqualified. And I know it's good to use different choirs, but I really wanted to see Grant Gustin on my screen again.

Can't blame you for that. His scenes with Kurt were really good.

So much wasted Kurtbastian potential...and chemistry. I still find it laughable that the writers plan to promote Seblaine failed horribly and instead launched a new Kurt ship that is probably as big as Klaine, but much less vocal.

Oh? Do you think that they really planned to make Seblaine into a real ship? Were they going to have a Kurt/Blaine breakup/cheating plot line that early, until it became obvious that the Chris/Grant chemistry was better? Do you know any details?

[ColdFlame96]

It makes sense that they try to find different choirs each year to compete against. However, in the past they actually gave some buildup to those rival choirs.

What happened to the Nun-Touchables? Weren't they supposed to be in Regionals?

I believe they explained that there was a scandal and they for disqualified. And I know it's good to use different choirs, but I really wanted to see Grant Gustin on my screen again.

Can't blame you for that. His scenes with Kurt were really good.

So much wasted Kurtbastian potential...and chemistry. I still find it laughable that the writers plan to promote Seblaine failed horribly and instead launched a new Kurt ship that is probably as big as Klaine, but much less vocal.

Oh? Do you think that they really planned to make Seblaine into a real ship? Were they going to have a Kurt/Blaine breakup/cheating plot line that early, until it became obvious that the Chris/Grant chemistry was better? Do you know any details?

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

[Lottie2303]

Agreed about everything in regards to kurtbastian. I find it so hilarious how they tried to promote Blaine once again as the attractive party and it totally backfired. Any other Show would have used the chemistry between Kurt and Sebastian, but Glee ignores it because Kurt cannot be a sexual, attractive being.

Kurt most likely will never have a serious boyfriend, as Chris and a good actor would make it work and it'd be the end of Klaine. Fox, RIB and all Blaine lovers cannot have that...

[brisallie]

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

[AnneNeville]

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

EVERYONE is going to have more chemistry with Chris than with Darren. Because Chris is a stronger actor. And that is it. I defy you to name a single character with whom Darren has better chemistry than Chris does.

[ColdFlame96]

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

They would have been such a hot, interesting, and hilarious couple. Not the sugary sweetness puppy eyes that is Klaine. Just imagine all the snark those two would have together, and all that explosive sexual tension. They would have a dynamic that only they would understand and everyone else would be convinced that they either despise each other or are in denial. Now that would've made good tv. But no, they had to throw Sebastian under the bus to once again make Blaine look like the oh-so-perfect human jukebox he is. Whatever. This is why I read fanfiction.

[ColdFlame96]

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

EVERYONE is going to have more chemistry with Chris than with Darren. Because Chris is a stronger actor. And that is it. I defy you to name a single character with whom Darren has better chemistry than Chris does.

Darren has more chemistry with Darren than he does with Chris.

[AnneNeville]

From ontd_gleel, which links several sources:

While Ryan Murphy's THE NEW NORMAL is officially cancelled, Mike O'Malley AND Vanessa Lengies's pilots have been purchased by NBC and ABC. They're leads for both.

So . . . goodbye Burt and Sugar, unless there are contract problems or somehow Fox works something out with ABC and NBC. I wonder how Glee will finish out their senior year without HeMo OR Vanessa! (I'm assuming Vanessa will be able to do her new show--hopefully her agents haven't screwed her over and gotten her locked into Glee so she has to be replaced).

Maybe they will have to do a VERY abbreviated senior year--like an episode of flashbacks!

Vanessa's show is set in Manhattan, though in a "bar" which could be built in a studio, I suppose. I'll be waiting to see if it will be shooting here, or out in LA.

[AnneNeville]

I don't know about that, but it was pretty obvious that Blaine and Sebastian were supposed to have sexual tension and Kurt was supposed to be threatened by it. Meanwhile, I got the vibe that Sebastian only pretended to be interested in Blaine because he thinks kurt looks hot when he's pissed(which he does, I might add).

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

EVERYONE is going to have more chemistry with Chris than with Darren. Because Chris is a stronger actor. And that is it. I defy you to name a single character with whom Darren has better chemistry than Chris does.

Darren has more chemistry with Darren than he does with Chris.

Darren's perfect scene partner:

[Lottie2303]

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

Agreed. But isn't it telling that they cast an actor for Blaine but rip him off the show when he works well with Kurt??! Sad but very, very telling.

[ColdFlame96]

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

Agreed. But isn't it telling that they cast an actor for Blaine but rip him off the show when he works well with Kurt??! Sad but very, very telling.

Kind of hard to kiss Blarrens ass when his "admirer" would much rather be with Kurt/Chris.

[brisallie]

To be honest, and may I be wrong, that why I think they ripped off Sebastian from Glee. Because things didn't work out as writers expected they gonna be. It results that Sebastian had more chemistry with Kurt instead. And personally I'd had loved to see that couple, because you could feel the tension in the air, but it seems writers didn't want to show that Kurt can be desirable too. Well that sth that has been discussed a lot.

Agreed. But isn't it telling that they cast an actor for Blaine but rip him off the show when he works well with Kurt??! Sad but very, very telling.

It does. And is sad because it proves who's the "favorite" one.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think Darren have chemistry with Chris, and actually that why I think he had lots of scenes with him in season 2 and 3. However, the problem I see is they're not leveled when it comes to acting. So either Darren tries to act better, or sadly Chris's acting is brought down.

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