Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

[Glorfindel]

^Thanks. I wish there was a way to learn more about the GA's response (except for the tanking ratings, hehe).


Found this on another forum (no source, sorry):

 

 

Oh Burt.  

I guess his Convenience Cancer also gave him Convenience Amnesia. 

[valkeakuulas]

The more I think about it the more terrifying Burt's nonchalant attitude becomes. It's not that he wouldn't care about his son, but his son has begun again hiding things from him and Burt is too dense, unfocused, indifferent to really listen and see his son. Part of that is their close connection: Kurt knows how to answer his dad and his dad knows Kurt is tough (Unhealthily so sometimes!).

I just cannot believe Burt knows about Blaine's cheating, or if he does then I really doubt if he cares about Kurt at all anymore. There are many scene's in Glee that are just bad but Kurt with his dad in the car makes me seriously sick. I'm here screaming: See your son's insecurities and fright here! You did before! Turn the car around now and let Kurt think about this!

I found it really cheap of Burt to bring Kurt's mom in here. So effing what! You were three years older and I'm thinking neither Burt, nor Kurt's mom were in college. Neither of them had cheated, or then the writers have saved that bombshell for the next time Kurt questions Blaine.

"Dad, Blaine cheated on me!"
"Well son, I was a bad boy too and hurt your mom as well. Now forgive him...or whatever you want...but forgive him because he is like me."

[Lottie2303]

I wanted to puke when Burt started talking about his wife and Kurt's deceased mother, to emotionally bribe him into the proposal. Also why? The entire car scene ruined so much about Burt and really it worries me how Kurt's feelings were once again ignored, and I bet they never will be discussed again with sincerity and maturity.

Josh Whedon gave an interview and everyone assumes he talked about Glee. Basically the characters just say what they are supposed to say, not matter how much it doesn't fit the character. Burt and Kurt, during the last episode, are prime example how RIB are willing to force storylines and sacrifice characters, just for the PSA of the week.

[Delight]

I did not watched the episode base on what I read on this forum. I did   taped the episode on my DVR, but delete it without watching even a minute  of it.

I won't be watching the episode as well. I'd rather save my limited internet download limit on Downton Abbey.

I've decided that I would only watch it if one of these scenarios occur:
- Blaine doesn't propose
- In the event that Blaine does propose, that Kurt doesn't say 'yes' to the proposal (which would be consistent with his stance against the Finchel marriage in season 3)
- In the event that Kurt said 'yes' to the proposal, that there is a believable transition from 'we're not dating' to 'let's be boyfriends again' to 'let's marry'
- In the event that the script sucks and the dialogue sucks and Klaine is reunited at the cost of character assassinations all around, that there is enough acting competence on DC's side to carry the Klaine scenes so that I can still enjoy watching Chris carry out his craft of portraying Kurt
- Burt would be the voice of reason and actually show some misgivings about Kurt accepting the proposal (which would be consistent with his stance against marrying so young when he spoke to Blaine last season)

Since none of the above happened, I'm staying away from the episode for now.

Also, I am pissed that Kurt's relationship with Adam had suddenly ceased to exist with an off-hand meta comment. At least Rachel had a big breakup scene with Brody when the writers decided to force Finchel down our throats last season. They're treating Kurt like a third-tier character on this show (like how Tina just suddenly broke up with Mike in between Glee seasons and they never bothered to show how and why), and it's infuriating.

I was just popping in to see if the complete demolition of Kurt Hummel continues.  Clearly, the answer is yes.

In other news, I've discovered Doctor Who.  Unfortunately, I chose the Tenth Doctor as my favorite before I found out what happened to him.  This has not been my year with favorite fictional characters.

Hi there, fellow Doctor Who fan!  

How great was Steven Moffat's 'Blink' and Neil Gaiman's 'The Doctor's Wife'?   Matt Smith may not look as handsome as Tennant as the 11th doctor, but I actually prefer him and his more quirky/cheerful version of the Time Lord.

But Glee has so embittered its fandom, and the writing is so problematic especially when it comes to relationships and racism/discrimination/effemiphobia etc., that you can only really like this show anymore either when you're not that intelligent and/or very young, and/or when you dream of having sex with Blaine/Darren.

It makes me wonder whether it is the true intention of the Glee writers and RIB+to drive away the fans of the original Glee cast. With the way things are on Glee right now, pretty soon the only people who will continue to watch the show would be those who love the newbies and Blaine. They're driving away the Kurtsies with, well, you know what. They've managed to drive away the Tina fans by making her insufferably bitchy. They're driving away the Rachel fans by making her incapable of humility or learning from her mistakes.

[Delight]

I wanted to puke when Burt started talking about his wife and Kurt's deceased mother, to emotionally bribe him into the proposal. Also why? The entire car scene ruined so much about Burt and really it worries me how Kurt's feelings were once again ignored, and I bet they never will be discussed again with sincerity and maturity.

Josh Whedon gave an interview and everyone assumes he talked about Glee. Basically the characters just say what they are supposed to say, not matter how much it doesn't fit the character. Burt and Kurt, during the last episode, are prime example how RIB are willing to force storylines and sacrifice characters, just for the PSA of the week.

I think Blaine making a political statement with the proposal to Kurt just screams, 'Ryan Murphy wants this!' The character on Glee are just his playthings now, to act as his mouthpiece to highlight whatever social commentary he has in mind.

[Glorfindel]

"Dad, Blaine cheated on me!"
"Well son, I was a bad boy too and hurt your mom as well. Now forgive him...or whatever you want...but forgive him because he is like me."

O, I so expected that to happen at some point during this dreadful storyline. Still do, actually.

Burt was dead set against an early engagement several times before, but Finn and Blaine wouldn't listen to him.
Finn and Rachel were too stubborn, and Burt then actively tried to stop them. Blaine went ahead despite Burt's advice, and then Burt awards him by enabling him by driving Kurt (and as far as Burt knew Kurt was totally unaware and unprepared!) to the poposal of an engagement he was against at first!  

It is also no coincidence that in all this time the word "cheating" was never mentioned in the presence of 'greatest dad of the world' Burt Hummel. We still don't know if Burt knows about that little detail. 
I gotta give that to RIB: the Burt/Kurt conversation was an excellent display of subtle emotional manipulation and "how to avoid topics that really should have been mentioned".


What Burt in that scene said:
"Look Kurt, I have no trouble guiding and advising other kids, even actively trying to stop them (Finn) and calling them nuts (Blaine) to prevent them from making stupid mistakes in their young lives, but I won't do that for you, my own son. You can screw up your life without any help or back-up from me, because so far 95% of the times it mattered you had to do it alone anyway. You are the resilient character of this show after all."
"That's right: the person I love the most in the entire world and who I'm always so protective of does not get the courtesy or advantage of the advice I eagerly gave to my stepson and (practically) adoptive son, No: you can decide just fine at the ripe age of 19 that you will never love someone as much as the boy who was your first (and maybe even only) boyfriend in high school when no other options really presented themselves in homofoob Lima, and that getting engaged is the only way you'll be able to ensure you will enjoy the time people get with the person they love."

"Let's forget that Blaine still is in high school and you will probably have to provide for him too as soon as he joins you in New York, while you're juggling a cutthroat college education, a demanding internship and a waiting job but have to be there for Blaine all of the time too, because else he will think he "lost you" and cheat on you again (oh, but am aware that he cheated on you or not?) and it'll be all your fault."
"Let's also pretend that me driving you to cupcake Blaine's proposal and bringing up your mom with the sentiment that I wished we had met earlier, and that I kept on driving while it is very clear you're expressing severe doubts now and I noticed it because I joked that you looked as if I was driving you to your execution (haha), is exactly what the greatest dad in the world would do. You gave me that coffee mug for Father's Day after all."

"Now go and at least listen to what the guy has to say to you, even though I, and all other 50 or so persons gathered in there, continu to refuse to listen to what you are really saying and have been saying for half a year.
Oh, and don't feel pressured at all, my beloved son."

[Glorfindel]

I've decided that I would only watch it if one of these scenarios occur:
- Blaine doesn't propose
- In the event that Blaine does propose, that Kurt doesn't say 'yes' to the proposal (which would be consistent with his stance against the Finchel marriage in season 3)
- In the event that Kurt said 'yes' to the proposal, that there is a believable transition from 'we're not dating' to 'let's be boyfriends again' to 'let's marry'
- In the event that the script sucks and the dialogue sucks and Klaine is reunited at the cost of character assassinations all around, that there is enough acting competence on DC's side to carry the Klaine scenes so that I can still enjoy watching Chris carry out his craft of portraying Kurt
- Burt would be the voice of reason and actually show some misgivings about Kurt accepting the proposal (which would be consistent with his stance against marrying so young when he spoke to Blaine last season)

Since none of the above happened, I'm staying away from the episode for now.

Lol, that's asking a lot from Glee.

I would have been (somewhat) satisfied if we only got 2 or 3 of those demands, but how bad is this show when we got absolutely none of them, and they even managed to do more damage in the process?  

[Lottie2303]

I have to agree with the perception, they want to get rid of the old fanbase. I cannot explain otherwise, why they are so happy to disregard Kurtsies so much. But they do a stellar job: Dianna, Cory, Heather, Amber, Chris, Jenna... all those fanbases slowly but surely say goodbye to Glee for good.

I will enjoy watching the destruction of Glee. The rating just will continue to drop and the stories only will get more desperate. They really set on the wrong horse with Darren, Chord plus the newcomers. Considering Chris is only tertiary character nowadays, I do not have worry about him.

[Glorfindel]

How did the deaf choir even know these were the "McKinley nerds"? Of the people running in and disrupting their rehearsal (nice move btw, Blam) they only know Tina and Artie. The rest are complete strangers to them. 

[valkeakuulas]

"Let's forget that Blaine still is in high school and you will probably have to provide for him too as soon as he joins you in New York, while you're juggling a cutthroat college education, a demanding internship and a waiting job but have to be there for Blaine all of the time too, because else he will think he "lost you" and cheat on you again (oh, but am aware that he cheated on you or not?) and it'll be all your fault."

I don't think that fear will ever leave Kurt: not giving Blaine enough attention leading him to cheat. Even if the threat of Blaine actually having sex with someone else would not be present after he's now sworn he will never, ever, ever cheat.

The possibility of Kurt somehow giving Blaine yet again these "signals" of having an independent life outside of Klaine might lead to Kurt being afraid of going to extra meetings, work trips, tiring time consuming rehearsal periods or just going for a visit home might lead Blaine to read as Kurt giving up on them. Speak about having an independent life outside a relationship.

Kurt is always trying to fix things before conflict so I can se him limiting his life in the fear of unntentionally hurting Blaine's feelings. Because he's not allowed in the show to question the Blaine's transferral of blaime, I have to read that he's agreeing to Blaine in some extent.

[Glorfindel]

^And how sad is that prospect?  

I have to agree with the perception, they want to get rid of the old fanbase. I cannot explain otherwise, why they are so happy to disregard Kurtsies so much. But they do a stellar job: Dianna, Cory, Heather, Amber, Chris, Jenna... all those fanbases slowly but surely say goodbye to Glee for good.

The tragic part of this is that I dont think they are trying to disregard/alienate the Kurtsies and the other fanbases.
They probably thought that Blaine's explanation and declaration that he will never "never ever" cheat again was a proper apology and reassurance, sincere and romantic. And the proposal was the best thing ever, all anyone ever dreams of and wants for themselves.

And by throwing in a Burt/Kurt scene in which Kurt was allowed to express his doubt (though Burt didn't listen) and Burt seemingly lets Kurt choose for himself was the finishing touch. Everyone loves Kurt/Burt scenes after all, do they not?
Except RIB forgot that after the Christmas episode with Convenience Cancer and Burt bringing Blaine to NY, a lot of Kurtsies stopped thinking that Burt was the world's greatest dad, and they know how they are being manipulated by scenes like this now.
RIB probably think that as long as Burt agrees with the proposal the Kurtsies will agree, and that's where they are wrong. They have no idea how much it revolts the Kurtsies that RIB made Burt a Klaine cheerleader when used the great dad/son relationship of the Hummels as a prop for Klaine.
Of all the revolting scenes in the 5.01 episode, Kurtsies seem more upset about the ruining of Burt than they are about unrepenting, possesive basket case Blaine getting his way with Kurt again, and even about the damage done to Kurt as a character.

RIB have no clue, and if they do have an inkling they think that a tongue-in-cheek 'funny' meta joke can fix it all.  


And you know what is the most infuriating thing about this? That it seemed to have worked for anyone else who is not already critical about Glee.   Of course the Blaine fans are happy and the naieve youngsters this show is targeted at now.
But it's baffling how much the media ate it all up and went all mushy over the proposal. Some of them were a bit snarky and cynical when reviewing everything before the Burt/Kurt scene and the proposal, but as soon as those 2 big sympathy evoking weapons ('best dad of the world' and 'romantic public proposal') were put into effect they all lost their collective shit minds.
I swear I have seen the speech of Blaine's proposal praised and typed out word for word in a review multiple times. And noone even mentioned how utterly syrupy and written as a bad fan fiction that speech was. Or maybe they were all bought by Fox? Isn't it suspicious that they all took the trouble of typing that speech out?

[Lottie2303]

^ That is the sad truth, they really seem to believe the majority of people will accept Klaine and the proposal, by getting Burt's blessing and Blaine doing a quick "I am sorry (but not really, it was basically your fault".

I have no expectations anymore. I enjoy the rating and I-Tunes sales, as I know they will just continue to crash and burn. Those are the numbers that hurt. Also the media outlets, let them write, because the comments are usually much more interesting. And there are media outlets who are totally against the proposal. So overall, I am convinced FOX at least somehow realized that the episode didn't go as well as expected.

[Jellyrolls]

Regarding Burt knowing about the cheating, I say there is no way in hell that he knew. Even thinking back to the Christmas episode last season, there is no way that Burt knew Blaine cheated on Kurt. Burt probably never even realized just how hurt and devestated Kurt was by the breakup--Burt may have just thought that they were taking a break because of the distance. It wouldn't be unusual for Kurt to hide something from Burt because he doesn't want his father to worry about him (how many times has he done that). And it would be easy for Kurt to hide that from Burt because they are in different cities.

If Burt had known way that the Burt who told Kurt not to throw himself around would think that a boy who had a random hookup with a facebook guy would be good enough for his beloved son. There is now way that the Burt who was willing to risk his own relationship with his girlfriend by kicking her son out of his house because he heard the son use the word "faggy" around his son would maintain a close relationship with someone who hurt his son so badly. If Burt knew about the cheating, there is no way that he would have mainted a close enough relationship with Blaine to tell him about the cancer, bring him to NY, and be comfortable enough around with him to have a bet on when Kurt would get bored with the Basketball game. And there is no way that the Burt who was so against a Finchel wedding would willing support and cart his son to an over the top proposal to a boy right after they reunited after six months broken up due to the boy cheating on his son.

So there is no way that Burt knows about the cheating. There is no way in Hell that Burt would be that comfortable around someone who hurt his son.

[Lottie2303]

Please, RIB are totally willing to sacrifice Burt for Blarren. I totally agree with Marie, I was waiting for the "I also cheated on your Mom" line. No matter what happens next, Kurt will never be Burt's first priority anymore. They didn't just sacrifice Kurt, but also Burt, Rachel and Santana (plus Sebastian, the Warblers, VA and the dead show choir) by having them act totally OCC.

[Ranwing]

There was not a single character that escaped a dose of assassination in order to make this idiotic engagement happen.

Rachel had a front row seat to just how badly damaged Blaine's infidelity left Kurt and had encouraged him to pursue a relationship with Adam. That she would be happy that Kurt and Blaine were back together is enough of a leap, but to have her fly back to Lima and actively help stage the proposal really was sad to see. I nearly gaged when I saw her adjusting Blaine's bowtie for him.

Santana has never failed to snark given the least motivation. Again, she has no reason to support this proposal but there she was, hugging Kurt as he went to his doom.

Sebastian (and this to me was perhaps the saddest example) is hardly a friend to either Kurt or Blaine. For him to be happily leading the Warblers in this display was especially pathetic given that this is likely Grant's last appearance on Glee.

Will Schuester will never be known as the smartest teacher on the planet, but he did not even voice a token protest that just maybe the proposal was a poor idea for a kid still in school, but again to be there to help stage it. He needs to turn in that Teacher of the Year award.

No one escaped unscathed.

[Lottie2303]

^ Really, RIB did more mistakes in the episode then some amateur FF writers. There was no development, the characters didn't fit the storyline and the happy ending was forced. But you are correct, no character that mattered was left unscathed. Funnily, I finally started liking Marley with her WTF-face. Guess they didn't expect to make her likable by disliking Blaine  

[AnneNeville]

Please, RIB are totally willing to sacrifice Burt for Blarren. I totally agree with Marie, I was waiting for the "I also cheated on your Mom" line. No matter what happens next, Kurt will never be Burt's first priority anymore. They didn't just sacrifice Kurt, but also Burt, Rachel and Santana (plus Sebastian, the Warblers, VA and the dead show choir) by having them act totally OCC.

^ I'm waiting for this, too.

You know, it actually *does* surprise me how resistant the writers are to having Blaine say a simple line: "I'm sorry, Kurt. I was wrong/I messed up, and I'm going to work every day to make things right."

I know that Darren is not the strongest actor, but I think that he could deliver that line with conviction. Even with more sincerity than the lines he was given, which Darren (apparently) delivered in a whiney and off-putting way. So why can't the writers do that? What is so hard about putting his apology on screen instead of off-screen?

I suspect that the writers didn't think about (and now are unwilling to admit) that the kind of cheating they had Blaine do was (to most people) worse than kissing someone else while still in an exclusive relationship. Like, they really think that fans are being a pain for not getting over physical cheating. Do you think the showrunners are taking the dislike of Blaine's sexual affair with Eli as if it is a reaction to it being a gay boy cheating rather than it being about the implied full-on sex with a stranger? Is that what Blaine's sarcasm and defensiveness is coming out of? More meta?

[Lottie2303]

^ On a very negative side, I feel like they think Kurt doesn't deserve such entitlement for a sincere apology. They rather focus on the alpha-male characters. RIB most certainly seem to have a mindset that women and effeminate gays are the weaker part of the relationships, and somehow deserve to be "punished". In case Kurt would ever cheat, he would be thrown in front of the lions. Blaine instead was celebrated for making a mistake and "growing" as a character because of it. The entire SL was a utter failure and wrongly handled. I am also certain Kurt didn't get any post-break up scenes, as Chris would have destroyed Klaine just in one minute acting in pain.

Reminds me of Finn and Rachel, where Rachel lost Finn because of one kiss, but he happily started to date Quinn again (who cheated on Sam). Those double standards exist since a while.

I think they are shocked because Kurtsies are very dedicated and we defend him without shame. I also believe they are sincerely convinced Blaine is more popular as character and therefore deserves more attention, hence Chris gets the backseat.

[Glorfindel]

Funnily, I finally started liking Marley with her WTF-face. Guess they didn't expect to make her likable by disliking Blaine

Marley and Jake's judging faces were indeed very satisfying.  
The first time I liked that girl. 

As a matter of fact, I think if they keep Marley, Jake, Unique and Ryder as background characters they might just work (if they are indeed hellbound on keeping the Lima part).
They would basically be the Tina, Mike, Brittany and Mercedes of the first seasons. Use their voices, use Jake's dancing, give them a funny line or 2 per episode and some reaction shots and I'd be perfectly fine with them.

These actors are simply not 1st or even 2nd tier characters, but they would serve very well as supporting cast.

[AnneNeville]

Funnily, I finally started liking Marley with her WTF-face. Guess they didn't expect to make her likable by disliking Blaine

Marley and Jake's judging faces were indeed very satisfying.  
The first time I liked that girl. 

As a matter of fact, I think if they keep Marley, Jake, Unique and Ryder as background characters they might just work (if they are indeed hellbound on keeping the Lima part).
They would basically be the Tina, Mike, Brittany and Mercedes of the first seasons. Use their voices, use Jake's dancing, give them a funny line or 2 per episode and some reaction shots and I'd be perfectly fine with them.

These actors are simply not 1st or even 2nd tier characters, but they would serve very well as supporting cast.

Kitty is a first-tier character, however. I really thought Ryder could be, but they really gave him awful stories. I wonder who they can get who is worth being a lead (in terms of acting as well as vocally) on the Lima side?

[Lottie2303]

^ That is the million dollar question. Hence, I am still a bit convinced Blaine (and Sam) will stay in Lima to make the Newbies work. However in case Kurt returns to Lima, I don't care if I am still or not watching the show, I will spam FOX Twitter with angry tweets.

[Glorfindel]

I suspect that the writers didn't think about (and now are unwilling to admit) that the kind of cheating they had Blaine do was (to most people) worse than kissing someone else while still in an exclusive relationship. Like, they really think that fans are being a pain for not getting over physical cheating. Do you think the showrunners are taking the dislike of Blaine's sexual affair with Eli as if it is a reaction to it being a gay boy cheating rather than it being about the implied full-on sex with a stranger? Is that what Blaine's sarcasm and defensiveness is coming out of? More meta?

TBH, I think it's because cheating with a random is in some circles of (adult) gay men not such a big deal. (Not trying to generalize here: I've had several conversations about this with people who should know.)
That's where they made the first mistake by having Blaine cheat like that. To them Blaine's cheating was more of the same thing as what some of the other characters did.

Now that they found out that the fandom responded with disgust and no compassion for such an act, they are simply butthurt that we didn't obediently accept their view of the situation and as a result rejected precious Blaine in droves. Their golden boy's harness got severely tarnished when all they expected was to create a little dent that would have been easily repared with a song or 2. (And I truly believe that that's why they made Blaine so much of an almost literal 'hero' afterwards: in an attempt to hide that dirty spot on his harness with a cape, so to speak.)

Maybe the writers (Ryan?) are even offended because so many people showed repulsion for what the writers probably think is 'normal/acceptable' in their own (adult) lives.

^ On a very negative side, I feel like they think Kurt doesn't deserve such entitlement for a sincere apology. They rather focus on the alpha-male characters. RIB most certainly seem to have a mindset that women and effeminate gays are the weaker part of the relationships, and somehow deserve to be "punished". In case Kurt would ever cheat, he would be thrown in front of the lions. Blaine instead was celebrated for making a mistake and "growing" as a character because of it. The entire SL was a utter failure and wrongly handled. I am also certain Kurt didn't get any post-break up scenes, as Chris would have destroyed Klaine just in one minute acting in pain.

Reminds me of Finn and Rachel, where Rachel lost Finn because of one kiss, but he happily started to date Quinn again (who cheated on Sam). Those double standards exist since a while.

Yes, and  this too.

I think they are shocked because Kurtsies are very dedicated and we defend him without shame. I also believe they are sincerely convinced Blaine is more popular as character and therefore deserves more attention, hence Chris gets the backseat.

What I don't get about that is that they know that Chris won a People's Choice Award last year, plus very close to winning a Teen Choice Award (which I think was rigged so he lost, either because he wouldn't/couldn't attend or so he would not take away the attention from Cory's tribute and Lea's win), when Darren's fanbase couldn't even get him nominated for anything.

Nor did Darren's fanbase do much for iTunes sales and ratings last season, the movie 'Girl Most Likely' (or is it 'Imogene' again?), and we all know that his so-called sold out tour was far from sold out.

Chris was the one Time Magazine asked to write about Harry Potter, not AVPM 'Harry Freaking Potter' Darren who showboated himself into the premiere of the 8th movie.
And Chris was the one asked to represent his age in that 'Esquire' magazine.

It has to be more than a simple calculation/estimation of who's the most popular with a loyal fanbase, because Chris beats Darren in that department (too).

[Glorfindel]

Kitty is a first-tier character, however. I really thought Ryder could be, but they really gave him awful stories. I wonder who they can get who is worth being a lead (in terms of acting as well as vocally) on the Lima side?

I agree: that's why I didn't mention her with the others.

Blake Jenner is a decent actor and singer, but he doesn't do anything to me. I can't really care about him one way or the other. He's bland to me, although he's talented.

[Lottie2303]

Mmm....

[AnneNeville]

Kitty is a first-tier character, however. I really thought Ryder could be, but they really gave him awful stories. I wonder who they can get who is worth being a lead (in terms of acting as well as vocally) on the Lima side?

I agree: that's why I didn't mention her with the others.

Blake Jenner is a decent actor and singer, but he doesn't do anything to me. I can't really care about him one way or the other. He's bland to me, although he's talented.

Yeah, I noticed that you didn't put Kitty as a third-tier character. I just named her as the only one to come out of that batch as a lead-worthy character. It's a shame that Blake hasn't caught on more. I do think it has to do with the storylines he was given--I think he has the chops to be interesting. But they gave him a rather insipid character to play (as opposed to the terrifying abusive jock, for example, that he improv'd on the Glee Project).

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