Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

[Jellyrolls]

Kurt definitely still has self-esteem issues when it comes to his love life, and it all goes back to Blaine's cheating and the way Blaine treats him.  He showed it in the beginning of his interactions with Adam in Sadie Hawkins, and he his hesitation in the dance room scene with Adam showed slight hesitation with Kurt, probably because he didn't feel worthy of it because he was still hung up Blaine.  Blaine and his cheating crushed him.

In the car scene, you had a very scared, nervous looking Kurt saying he didn't think he would find anyone else who would make him feel the safe, connected, and secure the way Blaine did, which shows that he didn't think that he would find someone else. Since we never got a clear reason why Kadam didn't work out (other than it never got serious, which isn't a reason). Kurt can't see himself worthy of being loved by anyone else, and quite honestly, he never really gave himself a chance to open up to experience a relationship with other guys other than Blaine (because even when he was with Adam, who in the canon moments we have of him was clearly interested in and supportive of Kurt, and Kurt seemed to enjoy being with him), Kurt was so hung up on Blaine that he couldn't move on.  If we had gotten more insight into why it never got serious, perhaps it would be easier to swallow why he is not reunited with Blaine.

ETA: Also in the car scene, Kurt was looking to his beloved father who means more to him than anyone for help and advice, and Burt said his opinion didn't matter. And when Kurt, who had been so against a Finchel wedding, said they were so young, instead of saying that he agreed that they were too young, and that he had spoken to Blaine and told him he was crazy to be thinking of proposing, he gave his son a story of how he had proposed to Kurt's mom when they were just 22 after just six months (which is still pretty young and fast for engagement), and implied that he would have done it years earlier. So Burt basically told his son it was all right and he would approve of his decision by the story and driving Kurt to the proposal, even though told Blaine something very different in a conversation that had probably occurred no more than a few weeks earlier. So, Kurt didn't even have real advice from his own father going into this.

Before meeting Blaine, Kurt was lonely and distraught, and yes, Blaine helped him build up his confidence and self esteem and made him realize that he was worthy of being loved.  But Blaine also crushed him and made him feel unworthy of being loved. There has been nothing to show why Kurt should open himself to Blaine again, and nothing to show why Blaine should open himself to risk being hurt by Blaine again.

Kurt should have been given more opportunity to have a solid midgame relationship but that was ruined thanks next to the crazy Klainers who only really care about them being together no matter how they treat each other.  

Though I do agree that Kurt had to say yes because he was caught up in the moment by the grand proposal with everyone he knows involved, but also because he still can't see that he is worthy of being loved by anyone other than Blaine.

[Ranwing]

If we want to talk about characters with self-esteem issues, we also need to bring up Ms. Rachel Berry. Because if there is anyone who has a total lack of the fortitude that is necessary to survive a life as a theater professional it's her.

She's talented, there's no question about that. But she's got an ego the size of Mt. Everest and as fragile as spun sugar. She absolutely cannot handle criticism of any kind, which is a shame because you need to take cricisim in order to grow and develop as a performer. And worse, she treats every single failure as the end of the universe and reason to go into a decade of mourning.

One thing I've noticed about every one of her huge auditions is that she treats them as if if every single hope and dream she ever had since she was an embryo rides on her succeeding at that moment. Forget about learning from mistakes and coming back better next time around - she has to succeed NOW, otherwise she's going to wrap herself in her shawl and mope about a life of failure. And because she places so much pressure on every single audition, she psychs herself out each and every time. She did it with the NYADA auditions, and now with Funny Girl. And she can't see past the moment to understand that she will have many, many more times to audition for roles (if not necessarily for this particular role).

The reality of a working actor is that you can't let one bad audition throw you. You have to shake it off, learn what you can so you can do better, and then move on to the next audition. You've got to not only be able to handle criticism (sometimes harsh criticism), but be self-aware enough to try to see things from your critic's viewpoint so that you can improve in some manner for the future. And you can't be hung up on getting particular jobs or parts. You have to be able to shake off dissapointment and move on.

Rachel isn't able to do that because in her mind these achievements, whether it's a solo or admission to her dream school or a the role that she's been planning on playing since her fathers first told her that she was a little star, are affirmations of her talent and her place as a star. Failure to get any of these throws all those dreams not just into reasonable doubt, but a full denial of her rightful destiny. It's as if she misses one step, so all chances of her succeeding crumble. So she builds it up to unreasonable levels and then when it doesn't go quite as planned, she totally falls apart. She can't see that she's just 18 and if she doesn't get her big breakout role now, that it can easily happen in a year or two when she's had more training and more experience. It either happens now, or not at all. And let's be honest - that little display she put on for the director in the dinner just reenforced every concern he had about her being too green and immature to handle a lead role.

In a lot of ways, Rachel is her own worst enemy.

[Kurt Hummel]

I missed a lot and just kinda skimmed through the pages. Yes, I agree that everyone has their own opinion and it's not dictated at all.   

I strongly disagree that Kurt said yes because of self esteem issues.  He was swept away in the romantic moment of this elaborate proposal and , even if it was inconsistent with his actions, a very sweet and saccharine proposal by Blaine.
Driven to the site by his father, hundreds of Rose petals, his friends there, brass section, 3 rival choirs , etc, etc.  I would bet the farm at that moment most people would have said yes.

I agree with you. IMO Kurt actually looked happy as he made his way around Dalton and saw all the hard work Blaine put into the performance/proposal. If a guy did all that for me, I would of also said yes.

[Buenos]

In canon Kurt loves Blaine.

Sometimes it is that simple.

[Glorfindel]

ETA:  Also in the car scene, Kurt was looking to his beloved father who means more to him than anyone for help and advice, and Burt said his opinion didn't matter.  And when Kurt, who had been so against a Finchel wedding, said they were so young, instead of saying that he agreed that they were too young, and that he had spoken to Blaine and told him he was crazy to be thinking of proposing, he gave his son a story of how he had proposed to Kurt's mom when they were just 22 after just six months (which is still pretty young and fast for engagement), and implied that he would have done it years earlier.  So Burt basically told his son it was all right and he would approve of his decision by the story and driving Kurt to the proposal, even though told Blaine something very different in a conversation that had probably occurred no more than a few weeks earlier.  So, Kurt didn't even have real advice from his own father going into this.

Someone on tumblr described the Burt/Kurt conversation as giving Kurt an "illusion of choice", and I think that hits the nail on the head.

And it's baffling to see how many people (Klainers, media) bought that illusion.

[Georgette888]

But, Kurt Hummel, one shouldn't just say yes because of a lot of hard work on a proposal. Now, yes, in canon Kurt does love Blaine. I may dislike the character but that is what we are told and see. However, Chris played doubts, insecurities etc because he is trying to provide the depth and the truth that the writers fail on i.e. the real effect of cheating. So, whilst Blaine put in work on the proposal, I would like to see him put in work on the relationship before an overblown proposal personally. But the writers are uninterested in truth. They want spectacle.

[Buenos]

My own theory is that at the end of S4, Glee was not planning for the Klaine proposal to start S5.

I think they were going to do it eventually, maybe start pushing them more towards it but Cory died and their overall plan for S5 changed.  Finchel was suddenly gone forever and things got shuffled around.  Suddenly the proposal seemed the big promo centerpiece to start the season on a "happy" note.   In 4.21 Blaine is  holding the ring box after Regionals which gave me the impression he was going to pop the question and get initially turned down.

However, Glee needed to get rid of all obstacles, the biggest one being Burt's reasonable objections in 4.21.

[Buenos]

Ahhhhgggg!

Someone in a private board posted that the deleted scene of Kurt and his 3 girls at the sleepover at McKinley occurred BEFORE the proposal. It was scene 30 while the Kurt/Burt scene was #40.

[brisallie]

@Buenos, I agree with you that Klaine proposal wasn't planned, but as there's not Finchel and Brittana anymore, they need a couple people can related with, and sadly for them , Jarley didn't made a huge impact. I know Klaine aren't the most loved couple at this moment, actually the opinion toward them are divided, but its fanbase is quite strong and noisy, so doing the proposal they assure some viewers.

[SippyCupofLuv]

@Buenos, I agree with you that Klaine proposal wasn't planned, but as there's not Finchel and Brittana anymore, they need a couple people can related with, and sadly for them , Jarley didn't made a huge impact. I know Klaine aren't the most loved couple at this moment, actually the opinion toward them are divided, but its fanbase is quite strong and noisy, so doing the proposal they assure some viewers.

The problem is, the proposal LOST them viewers.
And those viewers it "assured" would have watched regardless as long as Blaine was in the episode.

Klaine and the Klaine-cagement gains them nothing the didn't already have, but LOSES them what keeping the balance of Kurt Klaine-free gave them.

Actually if instead they had given Kadam development in the premiere they actually could have GAINED viewers.

~ k(B)lainers weren't going there as long as Blaine's still there.

~ Reasonable Klainers might have been drawn into Kadam (as many are, even if just as "midgame")

~ Kurtsies would have been HAPPY for some equal treatment of Kurt's lovelife, and with someone who treats him with respect, maturity, and appreciation he deserves.

~ Kurtsies who stopped watching Glee because of how Kurt's been treated, including by Klaine (especially by Klaine) may have returned if they felt Kurt was actually getting a chance to move on fully and be removed from Blaine's shadow.

All of these and more that I haven't mentioned, would have either been a no loss (Klaine and Kurtsies) or outright GAINS if they DIDN'T get Klaine back together, much less engaged.

So that they didn't says they either really didn't know because the Klainers being so noisy has everyone fooled that "everyone loves Klaine/Blaine" or RIB really just don't care anymore (... or RIB are trolling the Klainers and this re-klaining of Kurt won't end well, but didn't realize fully how much they risked losing with Kurt fans, general fans, and the GA.)

[Buenos]

CAveat: nobody really can talk for the "GA".

My own view is that the hardcore fans, be it Kurtsies, Blainers, Klainers, Finchels, Rachel, etc, can be numbered in the tens of thousands, at most.. For example, I doubt Klainers number more than 20-25 K...(It's pretty easy to figure out extrapolating from other sources)

The bigger problem is that the GA, who are not shippers perse, have been turned off by the overall poor writing, lack of narrative sense, and shitty characterization that got worse in S4. PLus the show got rid of half the cast the GA was familiar with and stuck Noobs front and center. The show lost ratings in S3 but S4 was when both ratings and ITUNES dramatically tumbled.

The GA doesn't really give a fig one way or other if Klaine happens or not, they simply want to be entertained. Glee fails to do that with the GA alot of the time.

[Glorfindel]

^Although I agree that speculating on what the GA thinks is tricky, I'd say that a season's premiere who's only promotion was based on Klaine, or better: 99% of it was based on the '-laine' part of that ship's name, getting so low ratings does speak very clearly.

Let alone about 800.000 viewers tuning out halfway through the episode, before the loudly heralded proposal featuring one of the most popular and well-known Beatles songs ever, for a couple "everyone loves".

[Lottie2303]

This is a very long post (and meant for tumblr, but "enjoy" the read), trying to understand and explain what The Proposal was supposed to be and how Glee once again failed to sell it to all non-Klainers.

First step: Let’s remove all shipper goggles and all preferences for characters. Let’s look at the past episode with no emotional attachment and no previous knowledge of Klaine. Because frankly put, the scene is very clear cut. The outcome is yet again something else, but I’ll talk about it later. Mind you, I also refrain at first to include acting choices, but talk about it later.

The car scene between Kurt and Burt was basically giving Kurt some POV. He was allowed to have the very obvious concerns the audience is having. He is hesitant because he is young, but he also feels loved and secure and doesn’t believe there is anyone else for whom he can feel that way. It is a love declaration telling us that Kurt still loves Blaine dearly. Burt is there to give some insight that marriage isn’t all puppies and flowers, but also can be hard. The scene tries to tell us, Kurt has a choice. Considering it is a surprise proposal and Kurt shouldn’t even have this discussion is an entire different matter. In case Kurt would have been oblivious, he wouldn’t have had the chance to even think about it with care.

The proposal itself is easy. Kurt is first hesitant, then overwhelmed and then filled with love. We are supposed to see that Kurt agreed because he loves Blaine, nothing more and nothing less. This proposal doesn’t have any double-meaning. The audience isn’t supposed to think that Kurt has self-esteem issues, settles for mediocrity, is forced into the engagement because everyone agrees and nor that he has doubts. Kurt loves Blaine and that is the reason he agrees. Simple.

Second step: the acting and how the scene was perceived by non-Klainers. They made one major mistake: they underestimated Chris. Again. Looking at past episodes, Chris is incredible good to remain professional, sell his scenes but also highlight the problems in the episodes. Glee managed it many, many times to have Klaine-centric episodes, trying to sell them as something totally different then perceived by the audience. Chris is a major factor by staying as much as possible true to his character and sometimes he plain refuses to act out scenes as they are supposed to be written. The examples are endless and can be seen in almost every Klaine-heavy episode:

- All the way back in “Dance with Somebody”, he basically rolls his eyes through Blaine’s performance and his facial expressions make it very clear how hurt Kurt is with the behavior. The episode however only was supposed to create some conflict for Klaine, that was about to be resolved. Kurt was also supposed to be the baddie and the audience was supposed to root for Blaine. It wasn’t supposed to be a double standard between Kurt and Blaine, and Chris refused to neglect it. He also refused to show Kurt as the villain, and with his facial expression and how he delivered his lines, Blaine’s behavior only was presented as immature and very childish.
- The infamous car park scene was never, ever meant to be so traumatic. The audience was not supposed to see it as sexual assault. It was probably meant to show a couple and too much alcohol going a little out of control. Chris took that scene and acted as what it was: sexual assault (there is no denying it was sexual assault!). There is a reason it was never addressed again – Glee is chicken when it comes to acknowledging they basically supported rape culture that episode. No apology can ever change the fact how sexual assault was treated in the episode.
- Darren also isn’t helping with his line deliveries, because during the break-up he blames Kurt while using this very whiny voice. Chris however looked stunning during episode, in the very worst way. Kurt was clearly devastated, hurt, broken, angry and plain sad. Glee tried to maintain a balance without blaming both parties, but once again Kurt is the ‘shining’ star. The break-up was overall a good episode, but it was also a great example how a great and mediocre/bad actor can deliver their lines differently.
- Hence, and that is pure speculation from my side, Kurt’s post break-up POV was neglected because FOX knew by just giving Chris one minute to show Kurt’s pain, he could destroy Klaine. The little we saw of his POV has proven how absolutely devastated Kurt looked. Klaine is precious to RIB/FOX, so they rather ignore Kurt as character, then to build an actual SL that could give back some critical acclaim.
- The Christmas episode was totally written as a sweet reunion with a supportive Blaine helping Burt. Just looking at the lines, the audience was supposed to see it as a nice gesture from Blaine and the ice-skating was presented as a romantic kind-of-reunion. It was also the very first sign that Glee will sacrifice Burt in order to make Klaine happen again. The cancer SL was a major WTF and heavily critiziesed. But also Chris refused to show Kurt as happy and glad to see Blaine. He was very subdued, silent and also judging. This is once again speculation and obviously the director agreed with Chris acting choices, but the way the episode was written, it was clearly not meant to be shown that way. All of Kurt’s emotions were not uttered with one word, but only delivered by Chris acting.
- Which leads to the last episode, every single actor was acting as required. None, I mean none, acted in character. Santana, Rachel and Burt are all characters who shouldn’t have supported this scene. The actors could have chosen to try to emulate a different emotion during the proposal scene. Chris has shown many times it is possible. One grumpy face may have helped the scene, because in such a large group, it is only normal a few disagree with the idea. So, the car scene, which was basically a confirmation for Kurt’s feelings, was the exact opposite. Instead of a dialogue how much Kurt loves Blaine, the audience suddenly wonders about his self-esteem. Kurt’s doubt about marrying young let you questions if he wants to get married, but actually is peer pressured. Burt’s dialogue is suddenly not supportive, but a major slap in the face, as he refuses to give his son proper advice nd almost pressure him into the engagement.

In conclusion, the acting and the dialogue was once again very counterproductive. Chris obviously loves Kurt and refuses since a very long time to give up on Kurt, by giving him the emotional reactions he should be allowed to have. Chris acting is the one reason so many disagree with this scene and I am happy he delivered. None of the other actors, props, song allocation and everything else let you doubt the sincerity of the proposal. There was no point during the episode where you should disagree with the proposal but see it as a bog romantic gesture to be celebrated. But because Chris questions it, along with a large part of the audience (700.000 people already switched off at that point during the episode!), exactly the opposite happened and people do disagree.

Because of Chris acting, the audience reaction, the very poor ratings and I-Tunes sales, I hope they will actually have a change of heart and stop the engagement along the way. Considering we still have two more seasons no couples stays together for such a long time period, there may be hope. I will remain cautious, but at least I know I follow the one character of the show, where I believe is acted by the only actor who cares enough to sell his emotions not according to script but because he understand and knows Kurt by heart.

[Glorfindel]

^It's true that Chris is the only one still in Kurt's corner, in and outside of the canon.



I agree with your post for 99% (as I also think that it's Chris' subtle multi-layered acting that make people perceive scenes differently than intented by the writers. That, combined with not gullible/young people easily being able to shoot elephant sized holes in the canon and seeing through the retconning and manipulation of the writers).
The 1% I disagree with is this (and I'm mostly elaborating on this to prevent fandom backlash from others like Kerrie, Klainers and Blarrenstans, not you) :

Second step: the acting and how the scene was perceived by non-Klainers. They made one major mistake: they underestimated Chris. Again. Looking at past episodes, Chris is incredible good to remain professional, sell his scenes but also highlight the problems in the episodes. Glee managed it many, many times to have Klaine-centric episodes, trying to sell them as something totally different then perceived by the audience. Chris is a major factor by staying as much as possible true to his character and sometimes he plain refuses to act out scenes as they are supposed to be written. The examples are endless and can be seen in almost every Klaine-heavy episode:

As I said: I fully agree with your analysis (of the scenes and Chris' acting), and I'm really glad you put in your post that Chris is incredibly good in remaining professional (as I've seen quite some hate posts that because Chris dislkies Klaine he can't or won't act Kurt convincingly in love with Blaine anymore, and that is just bullshit).
But as far as him plainly refusing to act out a scene as they are supposed to be written.....I really don't think he has that much influence or the power to refuse, or even the tendency or desire to flatout refuse when he may want to.

Chris says what he thinks about the storylines, but always with caution, sublety and no direct accusations towards the writers/producers. And I'm sure he will discuss and question things on set and is not happy with the Klaine cheating>>proposal storyline. But he would not risk getting a bad reputation for going against his bosses, or hold up a shoot because he does not agree with the script.

What I do believe is that his insights in Kurt are so respected on set, at least by the directors and the editing people, that he gets permission and leeway to interpret the written script in the way he thinks Kurt would react and speak those lines (it's not as if Chris can change much about the actual words or storylines. We've only heard about that one time at Prom, and that was way back when Kurt/Chris still mattered more to RIB than Blaine/Darren).
And the directors then agree to whatever interpretation Chris gives of Kurt and they decide to use it in the actual episode, instead of the 5+ other alternate ways they no doubt also shot of the scene and demanded of Chris, most definitely including a take where Chris does exactly what the original scripts dictates and expects Kurt to (re)act. 
That is a power Chris has, but it's a power based on others' respect for his skills, not on Chris being a stubborn actor going against the will of his bosses.

And tbh: Chris doesn't even need to refuse or convince the directors to support Kurt and give him more POV than the simple "OMG, I luvvvv Blainers no matter what an asshole he is".
No matter how much they might demand him to act in a scene, no matter what clunky and utterly crap lines they give him to say, no matter how little they give him to do in scenes, no matter how they try to keep Kurt's POV to a minimum: TPTB on Glee keep forgetting what an amazing actor Chris is. His mouth can say one thing and even mean it, while his body says another altogether, and then his eyes throw in even a 3rd emotion. And the amazing thing is that all of these emotions he shows at the same time are consistent of the Kurt character and never a lie or a contradiction of one another.  

It's Chris ability to give multiple signals and layered emotions in only split seconds that makes these scenes ambivalent and not a direct drone copy of what the script says (like so many other of the actors do). He manages to give us the entire, complicated picture of Kurt's POV in a few seconds reaction shot and/or 1 line of dialogue per episode.
And the good part is that either the writers/producers/directors/editors don't see what Chris is doing *cough*because they are up teenage dream Darren's ass*cough*, and/or they underestimate the effect it has on the viewers, or they condone it because they know Chris' acting skills are highly praised all around and he elevates the material in general, especially the Klaine scenes (even when it makes Blaine looks more like an douchebag, but that's also due to Darren making his scenes and Blaine's POV/sympathy card actually worse with his atrocious, whining line delivery).

[Lottie2303]

First of all, thanks for replying. It was supposed to be a tiny post and I wrote it for quite a bit of time. I also am still not sure I actually articulated myself well enough, and that my post makes any sense.

I agree Chris doesn’t have that much power. I highlighted it for the Christmas episode, because his words didn’t fit his body language. The way the episode was written, I still doubt it was supposed to be acted that way. I can assume Chris got the script, thought about it and convinced some higher power people to be a bit more ambivalent during the episode. As it actually didn’t damage Blaine as a character, I can see them accepting Chris take. “I Do” is another episode where Chris didn’t use the episode against Klaine, but highlighted the passion and lust. He also is so good in acknowledging and accepting the remaining feelings for Blaine, which I think are realistic.

I think Chris acting was spot-on during the proposal. I see sheer overload of emotions before he says ‘yes’. Also Kurt is clearly happy and in love, but still a little cautious because Blaine cheated and the relationship will never be “pure” again. He had to act it that way, it is in the script, and Chris will always remain a professional. But he takes every opportunity given to defy if possible. Chris cares about Kurt and I really believe he is the only one on set who actually thinks for two seconds what the engagement/marriage may mean to him. The script silver handed Chris the opportunity to make very, very clear the proposal is a bad idea! Hence all the negative reactions. I totally attribute it to Chris. Let’s compare it to Darren who never seems to question the script. Hence, you can see the clear difference in acting. Because Darren really believes that very second what he says, therefore he looks so sincere, but dismisses all those moments in the past where Blaine acted the exact opposite. Chris doesn’t, adds it to the many layers of Kurt and acts in a way RIB cannot control. His body language and facial expressions and eyes sometimes tell a totally different story, while he remains Kurt, and informs RIB yet again that they are wrong.

[Glorfindel]

^Yes, I think we both mean the same.  
Just wanted to make sure about the refusal thing because of the ugly magnifying, falsely accusing and festering some part of this fandom love to do.


As a matter of fact: if Chris had acted Kurt in any other way during those episodes you mentioned, but definitely in 5.01, his character wouldn't be salvagable for me anymore, nor whould I be able to watch even the Kurt edits from now on.
He gave us Kurtsies a mighty gift with his acting, without angering the (sane) Klainers (the rabbid Klainers are a lost case anyway).

I know that we just have to accept that in canon Kurt has forgiven Blaine, is still in love with him and never felt much for Adam, and that Blaine has properly apologized and bettered his ways (although all of this needed a lot of retconning and twisting by the writers to make this 'work').
And you know what: if I decide to keep watching Glee I can for argument's sake (and my sanity!) accept that Kurt is perfectly happy now, because there's a 99% chance that they will never acknowledge the underlying problems with Klaine nor any doubts that Kurt still should have.
The crap that the writers forcefeed us, the canon, or in other words: the show itself did nothing to convince me or placate me about my Klaine stance, and I will never stop saying that their relationship is abusive and messed up as f*ck and I hate Glee/Blaine/Klaine with a fiery passion.

But I can still love Kurt, and that's solely on Chris. I can't thank him enough for that, because no matter how I loathe what Glee has become now, I would really be sad if I had to fall out of love with Kurt as well, because, even though Chris has risen far above and beyond Glee now, I loved Kurt before I loved Chris, and I'm glad I don't have to say goodbye to him yet.
And I love Chris for that. He loves Kurt maybe even more than we do.

[coxfire]

Bah, Chris is able to convey in 2 nanoseconds and with no words 20 times more emotions than Darren in 4 solos and 50% screentime per episode. He is just so out of DC's league in terms of acting, and it shows in scenes like the picnic one, where Darren can't manage to come across other than whiny, when I bet that it wasn't the writer's intention in the first place.
Which is fun because Chris is able to twist the script and render his character far more human hence likable than what was written on paper, while it's the opposite with DC. He's supposed to bring out the "awww, he's sooo romantic" and ends up having people think "STFU already"! What a contrast... When your actor isn't able to uplift the material, maybe you should be careful what lines and SL you give him, otherwise it'll backfire (and, let's be honest, it kinda did).

Now, if we are lucky, now that the Klaiegagement is dealt with, we can turn the page and have Kurt/Chris be awsome in NYC without the Grease Stain => NYC edits FTW!!

[Lottie2303]

I doubt it will get any negative feedback. I am a nobody on tumblr and so far not many responded to my post. My last little rambling got over 70 replies and still gets reblogged. I won't believe it will happen this time.  (btw: please, this really is no whining or self-promotion, just stating some facts!)

I am cautious about Kurt. I attribute all my feelings I still have for Glee to Chris. All. Every single spoiler, picture and SL I read about Glee bores me to death. I am not even hate-watching anymore, because I don't even have that energy.

I have to wait how Kurt is treated in the next episodes. In case they really marry anytime soon, I don't know if I can manage it. I said 'goodbye' so many times, I still always come back. Kurt as character really did a number on me, because I cannot believe I am still talking about Glee and I haven't stopped watching yet.

The tribute will tell a lot how I feel about Glee. I also remain firm with my hope the engagement will be called of again, as this is still a TV-show and they love drama.

I am still contemplating to finish my little plot-bunny of FF where Kurt runs off to Paris and cuts all ties off with family and friend for a while...

[Ranwing]

Lottie2303 - I want to give you a standing ovation for your post. Spot on.

I said very much this back in season 4 - that if the writers spent a great deal of time showing just what Kurt was feeling in the aftermath of their break up, it would have been nearly impossible for them to facilitate a reconciliation (which I don't think was ever really in question despite what we might want). If the audience really got a full view of just how betrayed and hurt Kurt was, and all those moments that he talked about (the sleepless nights, needing Ambien just to be able to function, the depression and lonliness) it would have results in an enormous backlash against Blaine (and his self-pity would have been ridiculed rather than sympathized with) and a resistance to Kurt taking the greasy cheater back again.

So they did everything possible to minimize Kurt's POV. We had the two episodes immediately following TBU where Kurt was completely absent so that the immediate aftermath of what happened was seen entirely from Blaine's perspective. By the time Kurt was given any screen time at all, Blaine had emerged from his self-flaggulation and forgiven himself. The unspoken message was that Blaine had moved past the sorrow over what he did and he was really, really sorry and that all of us needed to move on. The missing part of this equation? Kurt's perspective and his right to feel angry and betrayed over what had happened. For him to finally have a chance to lash out at Blaine in Glease was almost anticlimiatic because it was so long after the fact. But what it did do was reverse a great deal of the self-forgiveness that Blaine had achieved. There was no just going back and trying to forget it ever happened and that is entirely due to Chris's stunning performance. He is able to take a few seconds of screen time and communicate far more insight than Darren managed in an entire season of heavy focus.

Glee has a nasty habit of reconning past events that are inconvenient to what they want to do in the present. The seriousness of Kurt's relationship with Adam is the latest victim, again helped along by the fact that we got to see very little of the two of them together. The problem is that what we did see was a relationship that was slowly and surely moving on into more serious territory. Kurt readily agreeing to renew his relationship with Blaine? Sure, except that just the past episode he was insisting that they weren't a couple and showed absolutely no conflict about that pronouncement. A few weeks earlier, he spoke about desperatly wanting to be over Blaine (again showing that he had no desire to reconcile). They had to literally throw out almost all of Kurt's storyline from the past season in order to make this work so it's not surprising that to those of us who aren't first invested with Kurt only as part of Klaine that it feels like we're wearing shoes on the wrong foot.

I'm like most of us here. I'm at a point where Glee frustrates me so much that I just can't go along with the crazy and enjoy it. But I'm trapped because I adore Kurt so very much. This all wouldn't piss me off so damn much if it weren't for the fact that I'm so deeply invested in Kurt and his storyline. I almost envy the more casual fans who can just take the rollercoaster ride that this show is, but the writer in me and the person who respects Kurt because of his remarkable journey bristles in seeing him being used in such a shabby manner, and to support an actor and a character totally unworthy of this sacrifice.

[Lottie2303]

Ahh, thank you, Wendy. As usual, I also agree with everything you said  

[valkeakuulas]

Whoah! You guys have really thought about these things! No but seriously it's facinating how polar the Kurt/Blaine fandoms are. I love reading all about your ideas.

For the last few days I've been tired of the fighting about Klaine and more than ever don't really care what they do with Klaine. I just want to see Kurt and Chris on my screen, lots and lots of him. There are so many pointless Glee junk to go through to get those few precious moments. No one who likes meaningful TV watches Glee anymore, and for the show the only people carrying it this far have been the fans, us.

This episode had still too little of Kurt and I think that should be my only point of complaint from now on. I just don't have the energy to fight the Klainers and I'm at the point where I'll settle for crumbs, because once Glee ends I'll see even less Chris, wether that is because he'll write more or film movies. He's not going to hang around in the press without a reason and do extra apparances in fluffy reality shows.

I love that people here are able to explain how unfair we feel Kurt's position is, because sometimes it feels we're labelled as bitter, cynical and whiners for whinings sake. Arguining and debate are two different things, which I'm sure Chris would agree, and you can't negotiate with RIB or OTP fanatics.

[Kurt Hummel]

Ahhhhgggg!

Someone in a private board posted that the deleted scene of Kurt and his 3 girls at the sleepover at McKinley occurred BEFORE the proposal.  It was scene 30 while the Kurt/Burt scene was #40.

Are you talking about this?


I really wished that this scene wasn't cut.  I would of loved to see more of Kurt in this episode.

I have something to admit, I have thought about leaving this forum at least once or twice but something always stops me. Maybe it's my love for Kurt/Chris that makes me want to stay.

[ColferInspired]

Ahhhhgggg!

Someone in a private board posted that the deleted scene of Kurt and his 3 girls at the sleepover at McKinley occurred BEFORE the proposal.  It was scene 30 while the Kurt/Burt scene was #40.

Are you talking about this?


I really wished that this scene wasn't cut.  I would of loved to see more of Kurt in this episode.

I have something to admit, I have thought about leaving this forum at least once or twice but something always stops me. Maybe it's my love for Kurt/Chris that makes me want to stay.

Please, don't go.  

We know you love Klaine, and it must be hard reading all this negativity. But I can understand Klaine gives you comfort as it does others.

Just love Klaine, if that is what you want to do. And Chris and Kurt of course.

If I can take of my anti-Klaine goggles and dismiss the bad writing and how uneven they are written I can see the positivity and the beauty this relationship could be.

[Glorfindel]

If I can take of my anti-Klaine goggles and dismiss the bad writing and how uneven they are written I can see the positivity and the beauty this relationship could be.

That's quite some "if's", lol, which is of course Klaine's problems in a nutshell.

But joking aside: @Kurt Hummel, I admire you for staying here despite most of us being anti-Klaine here. I'd also hate to see you go because I think it's good to have different opinions discussing on one board instead of an echo chamber and I appreciate your input, although I understand that reading so many opposite opinions than your own can be hard for you to do.

Hopefully some day in a not too distant future this board will not have this problem anymore and all Chris' fans can gather here without being divided by a fictional ship (and hopefully we'll get the Chris Colfer tag on tumblr back then too).

[ColferInspired]

If I can take of my anti-Klaine goggles and dismiss the bad writing and how uneven they are written I can see the positivity and the beauty this relationship could be.

That's quite some "if's", lol, which is of course Klaine's problems in a nutshell.

But joking aside: @Kurt Hummel, I admire you for staying here despite most of us being anti-Klaine here. I'd also hate to see you go because I think it's good to have different opinions discussing on one board instead of an echo chamber and I appreciate your input, although I understand that reading so many opposite opinions than your own can be hard for you to do.

Hopefully some day in a not too distant future this board will not have this problem anymore and all Chris' fans can gather here without being divided by a fictional ship (and hopefully we'll get the Chris Colfer tag on tumblr back then too).

I relish the day that that tag won't have Darren Criss, Klaine, Blaine or CrissColfer as tags.

It would be a time to rejoice when Chris and Darren are apart career wise.

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