Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

[Buenos]

Well, I don't think people are saying that they  are writing it like it intentionally. They obviously think they are writing love's fucking young dream. But it doesnt  mean that the unintended consequences of their writing is that this is what it looks like. Just like "my future wife"made Finn seem controlling and the writing of the boys makes them not the intended heroes but sexist pigs quite often and the writing of Santana's outing... You get my drift.

You're just a hater Georgette who doesn't appreciate true love.   Why oh why did you have to bring up the Santana outing?  

What I do find creepy is RM's obsession with a huge public marriage proposal for a "cultural statement" , which sounds like so much self entitled hubris. They could have had, say, Kurt/Blaine together helping the Berry Dads plan their own marriage/wedding and it would have come across so much better.

[opals]

My only point is that Blaine's "actions" per the script are not intentionally put across by the screen writers as "abusive" or intentionally harmful.

I don't think for a minute that the writers intention is to portray Blaine as anything other than Prince Charming. That's what pisses me off the most. They tell me (and impressionable young kids) than Blaine is the perfect Prince Charming. What they show me is a self absorbed, manipulative, ass.

That's what's so very dangerous and scary about this portrayal. The idea that Blaine can cheat on, humiliate, and shift blame to Kurt--but it's okay, because Blaine's cute and Klaine are "soul mates".

I actually do watch this show with teenagers. Now, my son is pretty quick and called TBU as it was. "Blaine was just butt hurt, because Kurt was off being awesome in NY". I suppose he's exempt from the Darren goggles.

My friend's daughter, not so lucky. "Well, Kurt should have worked less and paid more attention to Blaine. OMG! Blaine's so cute. How can Kurt not worship him!!" She has a crappy home life and romanticizes Blaine, Klaine, and all that "soul mate" bullshit that Glee spews, but doesn't really exist. I honestly fear for her when she starts dating.

[Buenos]

This was the own visual reference back to the Beatles I "got" right away, the Warblers in the phone booths at Dalton.  
Do those still exist?

[Glorfindel]

Well, I don't think people are saying that they  are writing it like it intentionally. They obviously think they are writing love's fucking young dream. But it doesnt  mean that the unintended consequences of their writing is that this is what it looks like. Just like "my future wife"made Finn seem controlling and the writing of the boys makes them not the intended heroes but sexist pigs quite often and the writing of Santana's outing... You get my drift.

I don't think for a minute that the writers intention is to portray Blaine as anything other than Prince Charming. That's what pisses me off the most. They tell me (and impressionable young kids) than Blaine is the perfect Prince Charming. What they show me is a self absorbed, manipulative, ass.

This.

I'm sure the writers don't put that stuff in intentionally, but it's still canon. Problem is that the writers find nothing wrong with it and therefore do not write the characters responding to what's actually shown, but instead the characters act to what the initial writer's intentions were.
Which leaves us with a very weird situation that on Glee the characters do not act according to what the canon should have them make react like.

[AnneNeville]

I think that for many people (perhaps those of us who have been in an emotionally abusive relationship), the traits that Blaine exhibits that are similar to, or red flags for, abuse are amplified. He becomes much harder to bear or believe as a character who is good-at-heart. However, as much as Blaine alarms me, I don't think the writers mean to make him awful. I wish I thought it was a purposeful characterization.

[Buenos]

I'm sure the writers don't put that stuff in intentionally, but it's still canon. Problem is that the writers find nothing wrong with it and therefore do not write the characters responding to what's actually shown, but instead the characters act to what the initial writer's intentions were.
Which leaves us with a very weird situation that on Glee the characters do not act according to what the canon should have them make react like.

I think that for many people (perhaps those of us who have been in an emotionally abusive relationship), the traits that Blaine exhibits that are similar to, or red flags for, abuse are amplified. He becomes much harder to bear or believe as a character who is good-at-heart. However, as much as Blaine alarms me, I don't think the writers mean to make him awful. I wish I thought it was a purposeful characterization.

I apologize if I give the impression I'm minimizing your perceptions of the character's actions, that's not what I meant.

It's just that I don't take some of Blaine's  actions as "factual"  in themselves that it's emotional abuse, it's as you've put it, our own experiences and others stuff we bring to the table that makes us make up our own mind.  That some interpret his actions as abuse is fine, but it's arguably an interpretation is all I'm saying.

Maybe because even now I like some of the aspects of Klaine when it was first established even if I don't ship it.  It's a weird relationship because the twist was that Kurt was always presented once they were a couple as the stronger, more stable element and Blaine was more needy and insecure.  I understand why some see it as abuse whereas I see it that Blaine needs Kurt because of his own issues.  In my head canon, Blaine never got unconditional love like Kurt got from Burt, so he was overwhelmed once he realized he loved Kurt and Kurt loved him.  Blaine seems the type of person everyone "likes" but who has a compulsive need to be liked , whereas I think Blaine admires and is a bit intimidated by the fact that Kurt doesn't give a flying fuck and doesn't bend over backwards to please everyone. It's what drives the Blaine stans crazy, their claim that Kurt is "colder" and not as demonstrative or into the relationship. ( Not that I necessarily agree with all those claims. ) Of course it's not a healthy relationship, but than again those don't exist in Glee.

[ColferInspired]

I'm sure the writers don't put that stuff in intentionally, but it's still canon. Problem is that the writers find nothing wrong with it and therefore do not write the characters responding to what's actually shown, but instead the characters act to what the initial writer's intentions were.
Which leaves us with a very weird situation that on Glee the characters do not act according to what the canon should have them make react like.

I think that for many people (perhaps those of us who have been in an emotionally abusive relationship), the traits that Blaine exhibits that are similar to, or red flags for, abuse are amplified. He becomes much harder to bear or believe as a character who is good-at-heart. However, as much as Blaine alarms me, I don't think the writers mean to make him awful. I wish I thought it was a purposeful characterization.

I apologize if I give the impression I'm minimizing your perceptions of the character's actions, that's not what I meant.

It's just that I don't take some of Blaine's  actions as "factual"  in themselves that it's emotional abuse, it's as you've put it, our own experiences and others stuff we bring to the table that makes us make up our own mind.  That some interpret his actions as abuse is fine, but it's arguably an interpretation is all I'm saying.

Maybe because even now I like some of the aspects of Klaine when it was first established even if I don't ship it.  It's a weird relationship because the twist was that Kurt was always presented once they were a couple as the stronger, more stable element and Blaine was more needy and insecure.  I understand why some see it as abuse whereas I see it that Blaine needs Kurt because of his own issues.  In my head canon, Blaine never got unconditional love like Kurt got from Burt, so he was overwhelmed once he realized he loved Kurt and Kurt loved him.  Blaine seems the type of person everyone "likes" but who has a compulsive need to be liked , whereas I think Blaine admires and is a bit intimidated by the fact that Kurt doesn't give a flying fuck and doesn't bend over backwards to please everyone.   It's what drives the Blaine stans crazy, their claim that Kurt is "colder" and not as demonstrative or into the relationship.   ( Not that I necessarily agree with all those claims. ) Of course it's not a healthy relationship, but than again those don't exist in Glee.

But Shooting Star shows us different.

Blaine's parents held him all night. So, he does have unconditional love.

His parents do love him and probably always have.

Shooting Star is canon.

[Jellyrolls]

Well, I don't think people are saying that they  are writing it like it intentionally. They obviously think they are writing love's fucking young dream. But it doesnt  mean that the unintended consequences of their writing is that this is what it looks like. Just like "my future wife"made Finn seem controlling and the writing of the boys makes them not the intended heroes but sexist pigs quite often and the writing of Santana's outing... You get my drift.

I don't think for a minute that the writers intention is to portray Blaine as anything other than Prince Charming. That's what pisses me off the most. They tell me (and impressionable young kids) than Blaine is the perfect Prince Charming. What they show me is a self absorbed, manipulative, ass.

This.

I'm sure the writers don't put that stuff in intentionally, but it's still canon. Problem is that the writers find nothing wrong with it and therefore do not write the characters responding to what's actually shown, but instead the characters act to what the initial writer's intentions were.
Which leaves us with a very weird situation that on Glee the characters do not act according to what the canon should have them make react like.

And herein lies the problem with Blaine. Unless you are a Blaine stan, it is hard to be sympathetic towards character that has everything handed to him on a silver plate, and always gets his way. Blaine is very flawed. He makes a lot of mistakes. But he is never held accountable for them. He might say, a quick "sorry" but he never has to make up for his mistakes. Maybe if we heard Blaine say, "It's my fault, and I'm going to do this to make it up to you." or something like that once in a while, and actually grew from his mistakes people who aren't blinded by their stanning would actually care about the character.

They rushed this reunion way too much just so they could have the first gay proposal after the law changes (which as one of the blogs I read pointed out since Glee is stuck somewhere in the spring, the law changes wouldn't have been rulled on yet, and beyond that, gay marriage is still not legal in Ohio). It probably drives Ryan crazy that Modern Family got thier engagement storyline aired first (and remember, this episode was supposed to air last week, but was pushed back a week because of Cory's death). As others have said, when we lost saw Kurt, he finally seemed to be over Blaine and in a comfortable place and then all of the sudden, he jumps right back into a relationship and gets engaged? It's just ridiculous.

It still just really breaks my heart that they have chosen to destroy the character who has changed people's lives just to pander to the fangirls.

As for the whole ratings thing, RIB and Fox have really messed things up by thinking that Darren can carry the show, and that Darren to promote the show so much. Clearly Darren doesn't have the fanbase they think he does, and I think that most adults in the GA who have watched the show since the beginning slowly trickled away from the show as the show changed and we got overload of Blaine and the newbies.

One thing to note about the newbies is that they weren't really used at all. Or really, they were used correctly--as supporting cast to Blarren. No big storylines (except for Kitty, but that was tied in with Artie). No Jarley drama.

Overall, I enjoyed the Rachel/Santana stuff, and the Kitty/Artie stuff. But the Klaine stuff was handled so badly, and handled in a way that destroyed the most iconic character on the show, and to a certain extent also destroyed the Kurt/Burt relationship that it made it impossible for me to enjoy the episode.

[Buenos]

 In my head canon, Blaine never got unconditional love like Kurt got from Burt, so he was overwhelmed once he realized he loved Kurt and Kurt loved him.  Blaine seems the type of person everyone "likes" but who has a compulsive need to be liked , whereas I think Blaine admires and is a bit intimidated by the fact that Kurt doesn't give a flying fuck and doesn't bend over backwards to please everyone.   It's what drives the Blaine stans crazy, their claim that Kurt is "colder" and not as demonstrative or into the relationship.   ( Not that I necessarily agree with all those claims. ) Of course it's not a healthy relationship, but than again those don't exist in Glee.

But Shooting Star shows us different.

Blaine's parents held him all night. So, he does have unconditional love.

His parents do love him and probably always have.

Shooting Star is canon.

I believed Blaine said they talked all night.

The context was that he was trapped in the school during a school shooting. Any parent who was not a troll would have had a long evening with their kid after a life/death scare like that. Hell, strangers have bonded over similar incidents.

The only canon we have of Blaine's relationship with his father is back in "Sexy" S2 where he tells Burt he was blown away by Kurt/Burt's relationship, that he couldn't talk to his father about sex, and that he suspected his father was using a rebuilt car project to get Blaine's hands dirty in an attempt to making him straight. Per canon that doesn't scream unconditional love to me.

OTOH, either his parents are the most indulgent or the most neglectful parents in the history of TV, switching from public school to Dalton back to public school, Christmas eve in New York with your ex boyfriend's family, and not showing up for his big marriage proposal to the love of his life.

Though I do suspect the parents are finally showing to extend the never ending McKinley school year. Though Seriously all you need is another cat fish story SL to keep the school year going for another 20 episodes.

[ladydianab]

All the inconsistencies in Glee gives one serious whiplash!!! I have to admit that I enjoyed the music and always have. The Beatles always had my heart so I had fun with last night's episode. Please, don't shoot me  

[Divalicious]

Well, I finally watched the episode, and by "watched" I mean had it on in the background while I talked on the telephone.

Good things
Nice to see Figgins actually get to do something, even if it meant Sue yet again won a battle that should never have been hers.  she remains even more unrealistic than how they show Rachel and Blaine's lives.  I hope he brings Sue down, he's waited longer than anybody to really shine.

Kitty and Artie were cute, and she is showing to be the first person who treats Artie as an adult, instead of a kid in a wheelchair.  I am actually hoping he has one of his misogynist comments and Kitty gives him the smack down.  It's about time one couple called another on their crap and it didn't end the relationship but make it stronger.

The dance numbers were fun, and some of the camera angles were nice, even if they dwelt on Rachels butt when she had her legs in the air, they at least made it up to me by focusing on Kurt's butt.  

Chris' voice, yowsa.  I cannot BELIEVE the people in charge cannot see the richness and strength of his voice.  He remains almost scarily gorgeous.

The bad:  Just about everything on the Klaine side of things.  Kurt did express how he wasn't going to just sit and watch Blaine sing, but I really did not like that the show went with "I thought we were over" stuff when we have on video the fact that Kurt was expecting to see Blaine in two weeks when Blaine made the decision to cheat.  It wasn't because he was drunk, it wasn't in the heat of the moment.  Blaine decided to meet with someone and he then slept with him.  I don't need someone to be flagellated forever for a mistake, but I do need them to own up to them, and make a concerted effort to change.  It was all too pat, and instead of giving Blaine something to actually make him grow up and behave like an adult owning his errors, it was all pooh poohed and put under the carpet.  

Burt even for the slightest moment backing off from his you are too young to get married stance he had for his step-son, when his baby boy (who, no matter what age he is will be his only baby boy) is about to get engaged to someone who is further away from graduation than Rachel and Finn were.  At least Rachel and Finn were basically waiting for graduation.  Blaine is getting engaged in High School.  He has no prospects, he isn't even officially in college.  I don't see Burt letting anyone getting away with taking financial advantage of his kid who has fought for everything he gets.  They remain with the best father-son chemistry, despite the dialogue.

I really dislike, and I do realize Glee is super real, but I have grown almighty tired of Sue just walking over the two brain cells the educational community apparently possess.  Sue showed extremely poor judgment in covering up Becky's gun toting, and she gets rewarded with this?

But that is what disturbs me most about what Glee has become about.  Rewarding those who shouldn't be getting rewards.  Sue and her blackmail.  Rachel and her stalking.  (Yes, we have yet to see if she is rewarded, but do any of us believe she will not get it?) Blaine and his cheating.  They use meta to acknowledge they know we are unhappy, but then continue the same behavior.  Blaine continues to be the bebopping god of all teendom, and gets to be engaged to someone who is strong and talented, but continues to be perceived as second rate next to him.  So much to the extent that they show more of Blam than they ever got close to showing Kadam.  How can Sam be so supportive of this union when he knows more than anyone else just how much lust Blaine had towards him.  Almost feels like I can't have the one I want, so I will have the one I can.  Both Kurt and Blaine are going into this for the wrong reasons.

So that leads me to the vain hope that Glee is setting up to show the kinks in the relationship.  When Blaine comes to NY and expects to take center stage in Kurt's life.  But Kurt wants to maintain his own friendships and his job, not to mention school.  That he is his own person, not a conglomeration called "Klaine"  he wants to be Kurt and Blaine, and they need to discover what that is.  

Yeah, it is vain.  I expect Kurt to be on just about the amount he was on today in a good episode.  A few seconds in most.  FOX deserves to lose money if they aren't pushing the use of their award winners.

[Lottie2303]

My only point is that Blaine's "actions" per the script are not  intentionally put across by the screen writers as "abusive" or intentionally harmful.

I don't think for a minute that the writers intention is to portray Blaine as anything other than Prince Charming. That's what pisses me off the most. They tell me (and impressionable young kids) than Blaine is the perfect Prince Charming. What they show me is a self absorbed, manipulative, ass.

That's what's so very dangerous and scary about this portrayal. The idea that Blaine can cheat on, humiliate, and shift blame to Kurt--but it's okay, because Blaine's cute and Klaine are "soul mates".

I actually do watch this show with teenagers. Now, my son is pretty quick and called TBU as it was. "Blaine was just butt hurt, because Kurt was off being awesome in NY". I suppose he's exempt from the Darren goggles.

My friend's daughter, not so lucky. "Well, Kurt should have worked less and paid more attention to Blaine. OMG! Blaine's so cute. How can Kurt not worship him!!"  She has a crappy home life and romanticizes Blaine, Klaine, and all that "soul mate" bullshit that Glee spews, but doesn't really exist. I honestly fear for her when she starts dating.

This! I always get looked at when I mention that certain television couples are a very bad influence for young people and that could lead to potential harm. Everyone is saying I am exaggerating  

I agree with the sentiment, I believe Klaine could have been saved in case they would have put more development and acknowledged the elephant in the room (i.e. Blaine cheated and isn't prince charming). This however, how they handled it, really destroyed the couple beyond control and I just have a shadow of hope they might break up again.

[Glorfindel]

^This ties back to the discussion we had whether or not Blaine is (emotionally) abusing Kurt.
When you look at all that happened in the canon, then yes, the early signs of abuse are all there, and if allowed to fester Blaine will become even more abusive in the future.
However, most of what he did so far, even though they can in fact and in law be called abusive, they can also be seen and even excused as the clumsy, unthinking acts of a young teenager who has always gotten his way, has been sheltered and tampered all his adolescent life and simply still has a lot to learn about manners and morals, like we ll do while growing up.

Blaine has parents who could afford to enroll him an an expensive private school after he was confronted with the cruel world for the very first time. His parents also apparently give him money enough to afford trips to New York and an expensive engagement ring. (And note: there is no canon indication whatsoever that he does not have loving parents.)
And if the 'problems' Blaine had with his older brother are any indication of the hardship Blaine faced while growing up, then it's quite easy to conclude that Blaine is simply a spoiled brat.
If Blaine is indeed a spoiled child who mostly always got his way, was doted on by his parents, peers and teachers, praised and put on a pedestal at Dalton plus at McKinley, and who never really learned how to share or deal with severe setbacks, then you can easily 'blame' his egocentric, narcistic, manipulative, victim-blaming, not taking responsibility for his own actions, and whining behaviour on the way he was raised and he therefore simply doesn't know better yet, also because this behaviour so far almost always worked for him.

And here is where Glee is screwing up. Because in most cases children and young adults get corrected by their peers, teachers and parents constantly whenever they screw up something they simply haven't learned yet. And there's actually nothing wrong with kids discovering and learning how to function respectfully and friendly through early wrongdoings like that.
A child who wants posession of the ball when playing with other kids, who can't take defeat and always needs to win, even when that means by cheating or hurting other kids, will learn really quickly that this is not appropiate behaviour and it doesn't get him what he wants anyway, because his playmates won't want to be friends with him anymore and his parents/teachers will lecture him and tell him to "play nice" next time, and he will eventually.

But noone does that with Blaine. Noone in Glee calls him out, noone corrects him and there are no real negative consequences whenever he screws up (like when he outed the GAP guy or when he gave the ND set list to Sebastian).
So the only time his bad behaviour finally did have a negative consequence (when Kurt broke up with him) he couldn't take it and got even more determined to get what he lost back. In the mean time he whined and wallowed in self-pity, and instead of other characters calling him out on his cheating Blaine got pitied, patted on the head and told he was a hero.
Kurt was allowed to call him out once or twice, especially in season 2, but Kurt got practically silenced in season 3 and 4 when Blaine became the golden boy (Tony, TFT, DWS, TBU). And there's been literally noone else who corrected Blaine, on the contrary: they always seem to either ignore his bad behaviour or even support it. Where Rachel was constantly put down and criticized for hogging the songs in ND the most Blaine gets for that is stupid meta jokes (often with hidden praises) and then he still sings the majority of the songs. When Finchel wanted to get engaged they met resistance, but Blaine gets 4 choirs to back him up.

My point?
Whether or not you call the Klaine relationship really abusive or not (and imo they are indeed already in abusive territory) the signs and predisposition in Blaine are definitely there, and if Blaine is allowed to continue his bad behaviour without being corrected or experiencing negativity because of it, he will become a full blown abuser in not such a distant future.
And if Kurt does not wise up he will be under the impression, as noone even questions Blaine's behaviour nor stands up for Kurt, that their relationship is 'normal'. Or in an even worse scenario: Kurt might end up thinking that he is the one who is not good enough and/or in the wrong, because Blaine will present it so that Kurt is to blame whenever he dares to step out of the boundaries Blaine put on him or can handle without taking it out on him. And Kurt will believe it, or at least the Kurt he could become if he's not allowed to question Blaine's behaviour nor talk back to him, and always has to take the high road.

And that is where Glee is going very, very wrong. It's a very dangerous message to send to teenagers, not only for the girls (and boys) who will think that being with a hot guy like Blaine is worth the price of having to be submissive and inferior, but also for the teenagers who think Blaine is cool and see confirmed that being narcistic and egoistic will bring you instant success and blind worship.

[ChrisColferFan1]

^This ties back to the discussion we had whether or not Blaine is (emotionally) abusing Kurt.
When you look at all that happened in the canon, then yes, the early signs of abuse are all there, and if allowed to fester Blaine will become even more abusive in the future.
However, most of what he did so far, even though they can in fact and in law be called abusive, can also be counted and even excused as the acts of a young teenager who has always gotten his way and has been sheltered and tampered all his adolescent life.

Blaine has parents who could afford to enroll him an an expensive private school after he was confronted with the cruel world for the very first time. His parents also apparently give him money enough to afford trips to New York and an expensive engagement ring. (And note: there is no canon indication whatsoever that he does not have loving parents.)
And if the 'problems' Blaine had with his older brother are an indication of the hardship Blaine faced while growing up, then it's quite easy to conclude that Blaine is simply a spoiled brat.
If Blaine is indeed a spoiled child who mostly always got his way, was doted on by his parents, peers and teachers, praised and put on a pedestal at Dalton plus at McKinley, and who never really learned how to share or deal with severe setbacks, then you can 'blame' his egocentric, narcistic, manipulative, victim-blaming, not taking responsibility for his own actions, and whining behaviour on the way he was raised and he therefore simply doesn't know better, also because this behaviour always worked for him.

And here is where Glee is screwing up. Because in most cases children and young adults get corrected by their peers, teachers and parents whenever they do something wrong when they simply haven't learned to behave yet. And there's actually nothing wrong with these kids discovering and learning how to function respectfully and friendly through first wrongdoings like that.
A child who always wants posession of the ball when playing with other kids, who can't take defeat and always needs to win, even when that means by cheating or hurting other kids, will learn really quick that this is not appropiate behaviour and it doesn't get him what he wants anyway, because his friends won't want to be friends with him anymore and his parents/teachers will lecture him and tell him to "play nice" next time.

But noone does that with Blaine. Noone in Glee scolds him, noone corrects him and there are no real negative consequences when he screws up (like when he outed the GAP guy or when he gave the ND set list to Sebastian). So the only time his bad behaviour did have a negative consequence (when Kurt broke up with him) he couldn't take it and got even more determined to get what he lost back. In the mean time he whined and wallowed in self-pity, and instead of other characters calling him out on his cheating Blaine got pitied, patted on the head and told he was a hero.
Kurt was allowed to call him out once or twice, especially in season 2, but Kurt got practically silenced in season 3 and 4 when Blaine became the golden boy (Tony, TFT, DWS, TBU).
And there's literally noone else who corrects Blaine when he's showing this bad behaviour, on the contrary: they always seem to either ignore it or even encourage it. Where Rachel was constantly put down and criticized for hogging the songs in ND the most Blaine gets for that is stupid meta jokes (often with hidden praises) and then he still sings the majority of the songs.

My point?
Whether or not you call the Klaine relationship really abusive or not (and imo they are indeed already in abusive territory) the signs and predisposition in Blaine are definitely there, and if Blaine is allowed to continue his bad behaviour without being corrected or experiencing negativity because of it, he will become a full blown abuser in not such a distant future.
And if Kurt does not wise up he will be under the impression, as noone even questions Blaine's behaviour nor stands up for Kurt, that their relationship is 'normal'. Or in an even worse scenario: Kurt might end up thinking that he is the one who is not good enough and/or in the wrong, because Blaine will present it so that Kurt is to blame whenever he dares to step out of the boundaries Blaine put on him or can handle without taking it out on him. And Kurt will believe it, or at least the Kurt he could become if he's not allowed to question Blaine's behaviour nor talk back to him, and always has to take the high road.

And that is where Glee is going very, very wrong. It's a very dangerous message to send to teenagers, not only for the girls (and boys) who will think that being with a hot guy like Blaine is worth the price of being submissive, but also for the teenagers who want to behave like Blaine and see confirmed that being narcistic and egoistic will bring you instant success and blind worship.

Wonderful post. what you wrote in your post is a big reason I don't shipped canon Klaine and dislike canon Blaine.

[Buenos]

This episode spared no one.

Seeing once snarky Sebastian reduced to serenading Kurt at Dalton was so sad to see. He looked good with his short hair I guess but still...

I can kiss away his affair at NYADA with Kurt.  My Sebastian would have brought a rock salt slushee to the proposal.  His love/hate with Kurt is legendary.

[Georgette888]

Ah, yes. Reduced to a Pip. :-(

[valkeakuulas]

I watched an entire episode! Whoah!

I don't officially like Glee anymore. I was pretty much gringing all the way, for several diffrent reasons.

One of them was Blaine being the Voice of Equality and Moral. What a preaching little shit and hypocrite! And has Jenna
lost her interest because she was doing a terrible summer stock theatre acting in the choir room scene?!

Even Seb has been neutered with Blaine snip.

And with the way Rachel is taking rejection, which that discussion between the star and the director in the theater wasn't, she will not be able to do any kind of performance or talent orientated job, wether that is singing or acting.

And that "Kurt and I will be happy" -line is just a hint more creepier in its episode context: who the hell asked anything from him? And who told Blaine to care for Tina. He cares more for everyone execpt Kurt. I maintain here that
for me every single scene that annoyed me was because of Blaine.

And Ryder playing the drums? Sorry for saying: the king is dead, all hail to a new king.

What have they done to Kurt? Where is he? Who took Kurt away? Why is Rachel doing this to Kurt? Why isn't Mercedes saying anything? Blaine: Blah, blah, blah...find each other all over again...(after Kurt time and time again forgives your wandering eyes and d***!) What is this?

That wasn't romantic at all. Kurt was like a souless carbon copy and Burt totally isn't blackmailing Kurt with his mother! Late breakfasts and all that sex! Since when has Kurt and Burt become so casual talking about sex. WTF!

I knew reading your first live watching comments should have prepared me for this, but I'm still disgusted by this. If FInchel would have been allowed to excist and this would have been Finn ambushing Rachel with a ring and public proposal this show would have been critizised so much.

I have never hated a TV character this much...what a f***weed!  I just blew a fuse watching this. I can't even enjoy Chris beauty anymore without feeling like I need to scream or vomit.

[fantastica]

^ that's why i turned off the tv after about 10 minutes (or was it 15? right after the klaine number). i couldn't stomach it anymore. i am saying goodbye to blee the show permanently. it's the last straw that broke my elephant. i do enjoy this forum. just not the show. i am looking forward to hear more announcments of chris' future projects.

[ChrisColferFan1]

^ that's why i turned off the tv after about 10 minutes (or was it 15? right after the klaine number). i couldn't stomach it anymore. i am saying goodbye to blee the show permanently. it's the last straw that broke my elephant. i do enjoy this forum. just not the show. i am looking forward to hear more announcments of chris' future projects.

I did not watched the episode base on what I read on this forum. I did taped the episode on my DVR, but delete it without watching even a minute of it.

[Glorfindel]

Feeling very brave and resilient after a day of clothes shopping with my kids (clothes shopping with kids/teenagers should be a stress test at military training, imo) I just watched the episode again.

The strange thing is that if you ignore all the established canon, all the fandom background discussions we had and if you just don't take this show seriously the episode is quite enjoyable.
Sue and Figgins were fun, Artie and Kitty were truly adorable (and Kevin and Becca can act and sing: so much personality in their characters!), there were some jokes and some good interactions between the characters: I even thought that the new ND members worked well off each other in the group scenes and reaction shots etc., plus the dancing and singing was fun (I found the voices better sounding/edited in the episode than on the iTunes tracks, plus hey: it's still Beatles songs. And with the help of professional dancers in Vocal Adrenaline and in the diner the dances were good too).
And if you ignore the history of Klaine that was a damn good proposal for tv (as I said: ignoring a lot of Klaine crap and ignoring the pressure put on a public proposal).

But Glee has so embittered its fandom, and the writing is so problematic especially when it comes to relationships and racism/discrimination/effemiphobia etc., that you can only really like this show anymore either when you're not that intelligent and/or very young, and/or when you dream of having sex with Blaine/Darren.

It's a real shame, because when you look at it like that you can still see the brilliance and potential that sometimes surfaces for a few seconds.  

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I didn't notice it at first, but in the scene when Tina 'outs' Artie and Kitty he (Tina) says that what Kitty is doing to Artie (by keeping their relationship a secret) is "emotional abuse".   IMO this exact wording is not a coincidence, but a sneer towards the fans who have (mostly rightfully) called almost every romantic relationship on Glee emotional abusive. 

So: more meta from RIB to scoff at their own show's fans. You'd think that with the declinging and failing ratings they would be more careful with pissing off the few fans Glee still has left.  

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On a more positive note:
I'd also like to say that though both of Lea's songs did nothing for me in the audio (and I still think her and Naya's voices are not suited for the Beatles) I found the performances/scenes of 'Yesterday' and 'a Hard Day's Night' the best of the episode. (tbh: AYNIL was objectively a good performace to watch too, with the Warblers and VA dancing, but that scene is much too tainted by the Klaine proposal)

Lea and Naya did great in the diner scene performance of 'A Hard Day's Night' (really loved the choreography), it was really fun to watch. Their energy was through the roof: I can't wait till Kurt joins them there (and hopefully gets to sing!).
Lea simply walking through NY without her usual show-mugging faces simplified her somewhat too frilled rendition of 'Yesterday', which it needed imo. Adding the Finchel NY date scenery touches to that song, plus knowing that Lea sang those lyrics so shortly after Cory passed away gave 'Yesterday' a subtle fragile feeling, and I appreciated that.

[Buenos]

And if you ignore the history of Klaine that was a damn good proposal for tv (as I said: ignoring a lot of Klaine crap and ignoring the pressure put on a public proposal).

IF they would have had a heart2heart previously, the GTGYIML picnic/song would have been very sweet, Kurt was at his flirty/teasing best and Darren, limited as his acting is, nevertheless usually does his best work when he plays against Chris. (Jenna and Chord drag him down as those 3 just expose each others weaknesses) .

I must say that Chris' acting was as usual top notch, it's always nuanced and has layers.

[tanita_mors]

The strange thing is that if you ignore all the established canon, all the fandom background discussions we had and if you just don't take this show seriously the episode is quite enjoyable.

I kind of feel the same way. god knows the episode had massive missteps and if you ignore most if not all of klaine and don't roll your eyes at the rachel stuff, it was rather good. unfortunately for me and i'm sure most of us, that shitty klaine stuff affects us most because it directly related to kurt. i mean seriously, young or not, who has ever proposed someone literary hours after getting back together from a messy breakup. there is fantasy and there is glee fantasy.

i think this is like the first show ever that i'm now officially hate watching. so congrats glee  

[Jellyrolls]

Just a random comment, I spent the day with my three sisters. All of them have watched Glee from the beginning, and even went to see the Glee concert after season two, but they do not participate in the fandom at all. All three of them said they just couldn't get into the episode the other night, and the show isn't what it used to be. All of them are planning to stop watching it. I also have another friend who said the same thing.

So, the GA members I know will be dropping the show

[Glorfindel]

^That's interesting. (I really don't know any GA Glee watchers anymore)

Did your sisters elaborate a bit more on why exactly they couldn't get into the episode? Did they single something specific out, or was it more of a general dislike/desinterest?

[Jellyrolls]

They said it was the lack of any real storyline, too many characters, and songs just thrown in all over the place.  Last season, my sisters were saying that they thought the split narrative was a mess.  They felt like they couldn't get to know the new characters with all of the original cast coming back so much.

None of them were able to make it to the end of the episode, so they didn't see the Klaine proposal.

ETA: Also, thought I'd mention that my sisters are all in the 50's.

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