Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 8

[Divalicious]

The sad thing is when they finally get their act together, or more together, and doing actual group songs that feature the majority of voices in the glee room, our fave is no longer there. Just saying off the top of my head, I have no facts or figures, but Season 3 there seemed mostly Santana, Rachel, Mercedes and Blaine sang. Everyone else significantly less. They got so spun up on people singing in relationships (unless you are Kurt) that everything was solos and duets. The fun group numbers that ended a lot of season 1 episodes went away. To me, those were always the highlight.

They have a room full of talented singers, even if the limitations in acting/dancing changes their use in performances. I do feel because of Lea and Cory's dance ability, the choreography was greatly impeded, and since they did most of the vocals in competitions it simply became a lot of close ups. Which means all the other dancers get even less camera time. I was also noting that with the current Glee kids, with better dancing ability, the competitions might actually be fun for once.

Still kind of ticks me off, with me working on Thursdays, that the one Thursday I am off, because of a holiday, there was absolutely no Kurt. Now next week, and the two episodes after should have a lot of Kurt goodness, and I am looking forward to them very much. I am also happy I can fast forward through any Rachel Brody scenes, which seem to be rehashes of every romantic entanglement Rachel has ever had. Booorrriingggg. At least I don't have to watch it live.

[M&M]

Full version of Homeward Bound/Home.

http://fyeahgleeclub.tumblr.com/post/36410153095/homeward-bound-home

It's beautiful and it's making me cry. It is giving me all these nostalgic feels. I miss this cast so much and I miss when I loved this show. Compare this to anything the newbies/Blaine have done and it is no contest who this show should be about. Instant download with Kiki.

Seriously, it's amazing.

[arina]

I really wish Kurt and Rachel sing with them, but they sound beautiful nonetheless.

[M&M]

I really wish Kurt and Rachel sing with them, but they sound beautiful nonetheless.

Me too, but Rachel and Kurt appear to be an island.

[Divalicious]

Kurt has always been an island, Rachel has simply joined him. I am still hoping that if Kurt gets into NYADA that there will be more singing. The focus has been dancing this semester, but perhaps next semester will be acting and singing. We know Kurt will nail the acting and finally prove that he could have played straight any old time he chose.

It is still weird to me that the kids only go to ND, and aren't taking advantage of visiting their friends in NY for free visiting privileges. Quinn is a train ride away supposedly, and if Mercedes can come all the way from LA, she certainly go the extra steps to NY. Propping the newbies? Don't know.

[M&M]

Kurt has always been an island, Rachel has simply joined him. I am still hoping that if Kurt gets into NYADA that there will be more singing. The focus has been dancing this semester, but perhaps next semester will be acting and singing. We know Kurt will nail the acting and finally prove that he could have played straight any old time he chose.

It is still weird to me that the kids only go to ND, and aren't taking advantage of visiting their friends in NY for free visiting privileges. Quinn is a train ride away supposedly, and if Mercedes can come all the way from LA, she certainly go the extra steps to NY. Propping the newbies? Don't know.

Definitely propping the newbies. With the grads acting as mentors for the newbs before sectionals, it is just another way the show is telling us that we should care about the new New Directions. And you can bet the BTS for this ep will be all the originals talking about how great it was to work with the new cast and how great they are.

I think the show missed the boat when they didn't give Hummelberry a spin-off. People, including fans who had long since given up on this show, would have tuned in to at least a couple eps to see how it was, but not anymore. I resent the Blarren stans who caused this and you can tell who they are because they are the most vocal about how this show is much better focusing on McKinley. Someone tweeted RM about the critics saying that Hummelberry should be out. It is most likely a matter of time and I should get ready for it, but this show is so much fail. Part of me thinks that with both Kurt and Rachel achieving multiple triumphs (if spoilers are to be believed) that they are going to set-up an ep in the near future where we actually do kind of get a goodbye, knowing that Hummelberry will be fine and successful and winners. ANd then they will be gone except for when they show up to get back their "hero" boyfriends. Sigh. Why do I care so much.

[arina]

I was one of the Kurt's fans who didn't want Hummelberry spin-off to happen because even spin-offs of better and bigger shows than Glee often ended badly... And too much Hummelberry alone can sometimes be too much sugary and it can be irritating imo. I was so happy that they decided to continue with Rachel and Kurt storylines on Glee but I think they doing it wrong. I was prepared for Finn and Santana to be there with them and that would balance Hummelberry dynamic and bring more diversity (I was so looking forward to Furt and Kurtana could be hysterical). I also think that Puck or Mercedes or Quinn (or all ) should have went to New York as well and they could meet from time time, do something funny (They could maybe even be neighbours)... it would also make better sense for Puck to show on the show by hanging out with friends in the city where he lives than flying to Lima for like two minutes long conversation with his brother… And Sebastian could go to NYADA this year and it would bring some good snark. There could be so many opportunities and funny interactions with everyone…
But we have just isolated hummlberry, NYADA has been just dance classes sofar and too repetitive, Brody who is there just to tell Rachel how awesome she is, Kurt had one rushed storyline in Vogue that probably won’t continue…
New York side coud be much more interesting that McKinley because new place bring so many new opportunities… but unfortunately wasted opportunities so far.

[brisallie]

Sometimes I'm wonder if they really want to develop the NY storyline. I mean it has been two episodes where we haven't seen Hummelberry, and I remember when it was announced season 4, one of the things that was said was that Lea was gonna be in any episode. Probably things has changed through the months. But still, why aren't more involved in that SL?.

To be honest, I feel like they're doing that storyline, only because they know they can't totally take off Hummelberry, if not they're gonna lose some fans. Though they only have 5 minutes per episode, they still gonna say "But they're on Glee. Isn't that what do you want?". And it goes the same for the others. I think Finn is the only one who's having more screentime, only because he's Will 2.0.

[M&M]

Sometimes I'm wonder if they really want to develop the NY storyline. I mean it has been two episodes where we haven't seen Hummelberry, and I remember when it was announced season 4, one of the things that was said was that Lea was gonna be in any episode. Probably things has changed through the months. But still, why aren't more involved in that SL?.

To be honest, I feel like they're doing that storyline, only because they know they can't totally take off Hummelberry, if not they're gonna lose some fans. Though they only have 5 minutes per episode, they still gonna say "But they're on Glee. Isn't that what do you want?". And it goes the same for the others. I think Finn is the only one who's having more screentime, only because he's Will 2.0.

I was thinking this too. It's really odd because while there was still too much Blaine and the newbies in the first 4 eps, they were still pretty well balanced. They set the stage for potentially good storylines in NYC. Now all the show has to do is use them. It was a very calculated move to have Rachel and Kurt out of 5 and 7 and I am sure that's because they want to make the newbies stand on their own. 5 had terrible results but 7 got good reviews, which I only suspect was because of the crackiness of the script. We have a lot of Rachel and Kurt coming up along with some new New York people (Rachel's new rival and Paul) so hopefully this means they are taking more of an interest. Part of me suspects that they are now going to try to build up New York more because once they have Darren migrate to NY (because, you know, he's the star), they are going to be more heavily weighted NY storylines or they are going to try the spin-off.

[Jellyrolls]

Clearly, Ryan's "revolutionary" idea isn't working. The split narrative isn't working because there just isn't enough time to tell everyone's story with this many characters.

We know Ryan's idea was that kids would graduate, and move on. End of story for them. New kids would arrive. The problem with that is that the GA (most of whom are just viewers who aren't involved with the fandom like us) invested three years watching the original characters. They GA wants to see where their stories lead? Why do you think that both versions of Beverly Hills 90210 followed the characters to college and beyond? The viewers become attached to the characters and want to see them evolve and grow. I think the 2 million view drop between episode 2 and 3 this season is in large part due to the fact that the GA saw that many of their favorites weren't on the show anymore, and many of those that were had limited screen time in the first two episodes, so they just started to tune out. The GA just doesn't want to invest their time in so many new characters, especially characters who are basically carbon copies of the previous characters with the same basic storylines they saw over the previous three seasons.

None of the new characters are taking off. None of the new characters are breaking out the way Chris, Lea, Cory, and later Naya did. I took a peek at the Glee Forum this morning, and there is very little discussion on the new characters on their sections of the forums. Out of the new characters introduced this season, only Blake has more than 100,000 followers on twitter, and that is probably at least in part due to his time on the Glee Project. Samuel has over a quarter million followers, and that is probably due to the fact that season one of the Glee Project was more popular than the first, and he has been on the show a half season more than the rest.

The bottom line is that if any of the new characters were really going to take off and be able to carry the show, it would have and should have happened by now. But it hasn't. People aren't that interested in them.

I half wonder if the increase in NY spoilers is because they are realizing that Ryan's "revolutinary" idea and the concept of changing out the cast just isn't working. It will be interesting to see going forward if they continue more with the NY end of things and minimize the McKinley end of things. Obviously, they won't completely drop McKinley because Blaine is still there, but they could just build up Blaine's story to lead him to NY for season five and minimize the development of the others to completely abandon them for season five.

Unfortunately, I do think that the damage is already done. I don't think we're going to see a huge increase in ratings the next few episodes because of the NY focus. I think too much of the GA has moved on because the show went in a direction they just aren't interested in anymore. Look at most of us here--the main or only reason that many of us still bother with the show is because we love Kurt and Chris.

[indiaskye]

I half wonder if the increase in NY spoilers is because they are realizing that Ryan's "revolutinary" idea and the concept of changing out the cast just isn't working. It will be interesting to see going forward if they continue more with the NY end of things and minimize the McKinley end of things. Obviously, they won't completely drop McKinley because Blaine is still there, but they could just build up Blaine's story to lead him to NY for season five and minimize the development of the others to completely abandon them for season five.

Unfortunately, I do think that the damage is already done. I don't think we're going to see a huge increase in ratings the next few episodes because of the NY focus. I think too much of the GA has moved on because the show went in a direction they just aren't interested in anymore. Look at most of us here--the main or only reason that many of us still bother with the show is because we love Kurt and Chris.

At the bolded: True - I know I'm only watching for Chris and Lea now ... and yes, for Darren too, because I adore him even though I don't particularly like Blaine at the moment (in fact, I'm feeling somewhat resentful towards Blaine right now, though I still have hope that that will eventually lessen).

Other than that, I've been thinking about what they're doing and what their motivations might be, too. It's very possible that they wanted to use the first half of the season to try and establish the new characters while at the same time counting on the Kurt/Rachel fans being patient enough to wait around as long as they're given a few scraps and the promise of "more later". Perhaps they were (and still might be) planning to build up the NY part of the storyline in the second half of the season (possibly as a set-up for season 5 when Blaine - and maybe Sam or Tina - could go to NY too, thus making that area of the show more populated without having to add too many new characters).

Unfortunately, if that was their plan then it doesn't seem to be working.

[arina]

At the bolded: True - I know I'm only watching for Chris and Lea now ... and yes, for Darren too, because I adore him even though I don't particularly like Blaine at the moment (in fact, I'm feeling somewhat resentful towards Blaine right now, though I still have hope that that will eventually lessen).

Other than that, I've been thinking about what they're doing and what their motivations might be, too. It's very possible that they wanted to use the first half of the season to try and establish the new characters while at the same time counting on the Kurt/Rachel fans being patient enough to wait around as long as they're given a few scraps and the promise of "more later". Perhaps they were (and still might be) planning to build up the NY part of the storyline in the second half of the season (possibly as a set-up for season 5 when Blaine - and maybe Sam or Tina - could go to NY too, thus making that area of the show more populated without having to add too many new characters).

Unfortunately, if that was their plan then it doesn't seem to be working.

I kinda wonder if they are even thinking about what the are doing, if they even have some plans and motivations behind their action...many of things they have done indicated that probably not. I still don't underestand for example how they could made the whitney episode so early after her death? One would think they had to have prepared storylines and suitable songs for that episode at that time...

And the storylines are rushed and without continuity, often without making any sense, I sometimes really doubt they plan more than one episode ahead...

[Divalicious]

Well, my post go deleted because it said things were locked. Dang it. To summarize I came to a realization. They truly are invested in NY. Who gets focus before hiatus? Kurt and Rachel. I think this whole beginning of the season and lack of storytime in NY is because they wanted to give ND time to gel. If NY started with a whizzbang, who would care about these new kids. We get to see characters we love doing amazing things in NY!! So they get Kurt there, and then things go zzzzz while ND gets focus. But now, going into the middle third of the season we have Kurt getting NYADA auditions, big live scenes. Kurt getting a new LI, even if a little bit of time will show Kurt through someone elses eyes other than Blaine.

I appreciated that without Rachel, Finn gets to interact with a bunch of different people. Blaine also is getting this treatment. Now I am waiting for a little Kurt time outside of Blaine and Rachel, his main scene partners for like 2 years. Rachel I despair for, because they seem to focus on whom she is making out with, rather than Rachel's journey. That is the problem with they give her made up problems, they have to stretch them out until they become unbelievable, because they don't want to tarnish her amazingness. Blaine will have this problem, his issues will be stuff he creates for himself (cheating) and will be amplified, but the forgiveness of the issues will also be magnified. Because he can't be not-amazing. Just hoping for some human Kurt, being admired for his talent, looks, and his wonderful personality.

[indiaskye]

And the storylines are rushed and without continuity, often without making any sense, I sometimes really doubt they plan more than one episode ahead...

Well, I think that they probably have some sort of rough outline for season 4, but they probably plan the individual episodes one at a time (or in clusters of two or three maybe).

To summarize I came to a realization. They truly are invested in NY. Who gets focus before hiatus? Kurt and Rachel. I think this whole beginning of the season and lack of storytime in NY is because they wanted to give ND time to gel. If NY started with a whizzbang, who would care about these new kids. We get to see characters we love doing amazing things in NY!! So they get Kurt there, and then things go zzzzz while ND gets focus. But now, going into the middle third of the season we have Kurt getting NYADA auditions, big live scenes. Kurt getting a new LI, even if a little bit of time will show Kurt through someone elses eyes other than Blaine.

I really do hope that this is what's going to happen and that the NY part of Glee will get more focus in the second half of the season. I would love for them to send Santana there, and later on Finn too - I mean, he can't stay in Lima and be Will 2.0 forever, right?

That way they'd have more characters there, and the combination of Rachel/Kurt/Santana has so much potential for hilarity - it would be comedic gold ...

[arina]

Well, I think that they probably have some sort of rough outline for season 4, but they probably plan the individual episodes one at a time (or in clusters of two or three maybe).

Well I would not give them even that much credit, but who knows :-)

You know I would still really like to know when they got the brilliant idea for "I didn't get in", I still think that he was supposed to get in the Choke episode... And then I am not sure that Kurt was supposed to in NYADA this year, maybe I am wrong but even the fact they hired Domenech who many fans were expected to become his new love interest indicates me that he maybe should have stayed in Voque. Its's of course just speculation, it's all kind of weird...

[ColferGirl]

I agree with Divalicious....I really hope that all these recent spoilers about Kurt in upcoming episodes is indicating that there will be a greater focus on the New York side of the show in the second half of the season. It would also help RIB cash in on Chris's increasing popularity, since January is when Struck By Lightning comes out. Someone here, I can't remember who, speculated once that she thought RIB were going to spend the first half the season getting all the characters "in place", so to speak, for their true meaty storylines, which would start in earnest in the second half. I really hope that's what's happening. I'd love to have a long, fleshed out, well-developed storyline with Kurt and Rachel at NYADA, with several new characters for both of them to interact off of, now that they're both there. Almost as if RIB were just having Hummelberry twiddle their thumbs this season so far until they could both be at NYADA together *and* both have the opportunity for new boyfriends, thus new storylines (Brody and Paul).....



Anyway, I haven't seen this posted, another song was released -Live While We're Young by the Warblers. I'm not fond of the Warblers recently, but I don't think it's so bad (granted I'm very easy to please ). I want to listen to it a few times before I decide whether I want to buy it or not. (It's nowhere near as good as the S2 Warbler songs though....I miss the Beelzebubs)

[arina]

That way they'd have more characters there, and the combination of Rachel/Kurt/Santana has so much potential for hilarity - it would be comedic gold ...

I've read so many great funny idea from fans about Santana's interaction with Hummelberry and about moving with them... I don't like that much when writers pandern fans, but in this case I would love to see that on the screen. That would truly be comedic gold.

[Ranwing]

The bottom line is that if any of the new characters were really going to take off and be able to carry the show, it would have and should have happened by now. But it hasn't. People aren't that interested in them.

And this is showing with the need to constantly have graduated characters being brought back into the mix, even if only peripherally. Having Puck advise Jake about how to deal with Marley added absolutely nothing to the storyline, but Jake is such a wishy washy version of Puck and reestablishing their connection was to remind us of why we're supposed care about him. They needed to keep Brittany, Artie, Tina and Blaine in the McKinley location, as well as transplant Finn there, in order to give us something to watch. And they need to keep dragging back Santana, Mercedes, Mike and now Quinn to act as crutches to characters that just aren't resonating with the audience in any way close to how even the weakest characters in the original cast did. The show still needs the graduates as a crutch despite all the proclaimations of how great the McKinley storyline is.

I think that the show did something interesting back in Glease when both Rachel and Kurt proclaimed that Lima is no longer home for him. That is the first real unteathering of the NYC local from Lima and now both storylines will have to stand or fall on their own merits.

I half wonder if the increase in NY spoilers is because they are realizing that Ryan's "revolutinary" idea and the concept of changing out the cast just isn't working. It will be interesting to see going forward if they continue more with the NY end of things and minimize the McKinley end of things. Obviously, they won't completely drop McKinley because Blaine is still there, but they could just build up Blaine's story to lead him to NY for season five and minimize the development of the others to completely abandon them for season five.

It's not impossible to carry on multiple storylines in multiple locations even when there is little physical connection between the action in each of the locations. Game of Thrones is a perfect example of this.You've got one location where about 60% of the action happens, and multiple other locations with varying degrees of actions that up until now have only marginal connection to the main location. This is while juggling a cast of characters that far exceeds what Glee has to manage. But Game of Thrones has a clear narrative and focus and makes the tough calls on when to exclude a particular location or character from an episode. Glee's problem is that it wants to have everything all the time and more often than not, we get an overloaded mess.

I have no problem with some eps focusing exclusively on one location over another (and I'm admittedly enjoying the whining of the Lea stans who are complaining that they were lied to about Lea being the one actor in every ep). I don't mind them wanting to devote some time to trying to develop the McKinley storyline and characters, but their pacing and timing - following right after a seismic shift in the relationships affecting the NY local - was poorly considered. If we get balance with at least one ep set entirely in NY, I'll be satisfied that they're at least trying to balance the two storylines fairly. The sad fact is that NY has only two characters that we really care about (no, Brody does not count) and it's hard to justify focusing more time on only two characters in one place while we have a bakers dozen in the other (not including returning seniors, parents, and adult teachers). Mind you, I'm not excusing that imbalance. It's just more evidence of how much of this season wasn't well thought out by the show runners.

[Catt24]

Clearly, Ryan's "revolutionary" idea isn't working. The split narrative isn't working because there just isn't enough time to tell everyone's story with this many characters.

We know Ryan's idea was that kids would graduate, and move on. End of story for them. New kids would arrive. The problem with that is that the GA (most of whom are just viewers who aren't involved with the fandom like us) invested three years watching the original characters. They GA wants to see where their stories lead? Why do you think that both versions of Beverly Hills 90210 followed the characters to college and beyond? The viewers become attached to the characters and want to see them evolve and grow. I think the 2 million view drop between episode 2 and 3 this season is in large part due to the fact that the GA saw that many of their favorites weren't on the show anymore, and many of those that were had limited screen time in the first two episodes, so they just started to tune out. The GA just doesn't want to invest their time in so many new characters, especially characters who are basically carbon copies of the previous characters with the same basic storylines they saw over the previous three seasons.

None of the new characters are taking off. None of the new characters are breaking out the way Chris, Lea, Cory, and later Naya did. I took a peek at the Glee Forum this morning, and there is very little discussion on the new characters on their sections of the forums. Out of the new characters introduced this season, only Blake has more than 100,000 followers on twitter, and that is probably at least in part due to his time on the Glee Project. Samuel has over a quarter million followers, and that is probably due to the fact that season one of the Glee Project was more popular than the first, and he has been on the show a half season more than the rest.

The bottom line is that if any of the new characters were really going to take off and be able to carry the show, it would have and should have happened by now. But it hasn't. People aren't that interested in them.

I half wonder if the increase in NY spoilers is because they are realizing that Ryan's "revolutinary" idea and the concept of changing out the cast just isn't working. It will be interesting to see going forward if they continue more with the NY end of things and minimize the McKinley end of things. Obviously, they won't completely drop McKinley because Blaine is still there, but they could just build up Blaine's story to lead him to NY for season five and minimize the development of the others to completely abandon them for season five.

Unfortunately, I do think that the damage is already done. I don't think we're going to see a huge increase in ratings the next few episodes because of the NY focus. I think too much of the GA has moved on because the show went in a direction they just aren't interested in anymore. Look at most of us here--the main or only reason that many of us still bother with the show is because we love Kurt and Chris.

For people stating that FOX isn't looking at this episode, or the last two episodes during the sweeps period are not in the industry of looking at numbers. I'm not in the media field, but I do a bit of an analyst work at the hospital that I work at, with regards to productivity amongst staff, and no/show rates in our department, which impacts our revenue/budget. Considering this is the end of the year to look at the budget going forward for 2013-2014 for most businesses, I can only imagine that FOX IS looking at this data very carefully. Glee is NOT going to get cancelled. I think season 5 is a sure bet. But what's not a sure bet, is how much money can be invested towards the show for the latter part of season 4 & season 5. If they keep loosing viewers, it means making cuts behind-the-scenes with production, location shoots, and possibly making cuts with cast contracts. Additionally, I don't know what type of creative influence that FOX will exert onto RIB. I don't think they'll chuck out McKinely/Ohio portion of Glee at this rate, but if RIB keep having episodes that solely focus on the Ohio portion of the show, and the ratings still remain dismal, I can see FOX exerting creative control to get more focus on the Grads and/or vice-versa.

Some of the creative choices that RIB have made have been serious blunders on both the Ohio & NY portion of the show. From the Ohio side, I think the actors they got are truly decent (although not in the acting leauge with Chris, Lea, Cory, Naya, or give charismatic performances like Darren). Although, that Glee project winner Blake Jenner (I was truly impressed with his performance in Dynamic Duets) seems to be a find. However, the mistake they made with the newbs is that they've failed to integrate them with the existing choir room members. I think the whole Ryder/Marley/Jake triangle isn't compelling because they're too new to the audience, and quite honestly, Marley is milquetoast & insipid (although I do like Melissa). Instead of a triangle that no one cares about, it would've been interesting to see Marley & Sam interact, or having Tina in a triangle with Ryder & Jake. Plus, it does not help that I'm picking up a serious Madonna/Whore complex from Ryan in regards to how he's writing Marley/Kitty and it's making both female characters to be an utter chore to watch at best, and at worst, they're absolutely dreadful currently with the offensive bulimia storyline. It also is infuriating to use the old cast members like Mike, Mercedes, Santana, and Quinn to prop up these newbies since it doesn't make much narrative sense. They should either be moving on in their prospective paths, or at least in Santana's case, in NY with Kurt & Rachel. I understand why TPTB are centering the show onto the Choir room, if they want to sustain a long-term franchise with Glee, in terms of concerts, music sales, and it's original concept of being centered in a choir room. However, that tide has changed, which leads me to the NY narrative.

The mistake of the narrative portion of the NY side is that it's too isolating & redundant with just Kurt & Rachel. I'm seriously surprised that they have not migrated Santana to the NY side by now. Rachel's NYADA storyline with Brody in telling her perfect she is, and Kate Hudson's guest stint as the irate dance instructor is a bore. We get to hear Rachel tell us about her audition for an off-Broadway show, but we didn't see her score that chance. It would've been cracktastic if we got to see Rachel interacting with a nut director while auditioning for the Glass Menagerie. We get to hear Cassandra say that Rachel is a dime and dozen in talent,, but I have yet to see them highlight that with showing Rachel's peers being a serious threat, or a credible struggle on Rachel's pathway to being on Broadway. Kurt's triumphant Vogue storyline had little suspense, and it happened too quickly for my liking (although boy was overdue for a win after that horrendous season 3 of epic FAIL). Although SJP was/is charming with Chris, it seems that it's coming to pass, and vogue was a magical holding pen for NYADA. For me, there is little struggle with Rachel & Kurt in NYC, which I find a bit unrealistic since I not only I am a NYer, but it's not compelling when they're either given things, and being told they're the bees knees. That's not how it works for young adults out of town trying to make their way in NYC. With news that Kurt will be going to NYADA, and getting a new interim LI interest, I think RIB are somewhat trying to develop a central location, which is NYADA. Sadly, I find NYADA a joke at this point, and I can't seem to develop much interest to it because Whoopi's character has already been inconsistent with her standards, and Cassandra July is a boring bitch (Madonna/Whore complex strikes again). Maybe, something like Callbacks, where the NYADA students hang-out would be great to have for rotating class members of Rachel & Kurt, and give a central feel of the NY show like the choir room does for the McKinley portion.

Also, what the hell is going to happen come season 5 when they'll graduate Tina, Blaine, Artie, and possibly Brittney? (I think they're going to keep Sam in Ohio/McKinely). I can see them loosing Tina & Artie, but are they going to keep Blaine & Brittney in Ohio like they're doing with Finn? How are they going to find & incorporate more newbies onto the show? It's not a sustainable idea at this rate to keep both Ohio & NY in the long run of things. Glee has become like Harry Potter & Voldermot-one cannot live while the other survives (LOL!). RIB/FOX are going to make a tough choices in the next year of what show they want to invest in going forward, and if they don't control the number of viewers fleeing, the choice(s) will be out of their hands.

[M&M]

I am loving this conversation

I absolutely think Kurt was always supposed to get into NYADA, but I think the show got nervous at the end of the season and they decided to not have him make it. I remember around the time they were filming Choke, Chris was asked about Kurt's disappointments in Season 3 and he talked about how Kurt had something epic coming and then Jane (same time) said "one of the kids chokes, and one of the kids gets in." She may have been speculating, but coupled with Chris's comment makes me think that Kurt was intended to get in originally. They kept the last few pages of the Goodbye script secret until they were ready to shoot. Probably for realistic reactions.

I think they were going to keep Kurt in Lima for awhile to anchor that side. I don't think Fox/RIB (FRIB) figured that there would be such a backlash from fans and media, but they were sorely mistaken. I actually always thought they would send Finchel to NYC and keep Kurtana back in Lima to set things up on that end. Was I glad to be wrong. Honestly, as character, Kurt and Rachel became too big for Lima and I think FRIB knows this.

I am hoping that they drop McKinley completely next year. They should have this year. Some media (read: paid off) like to point out how NY is not needed, but that was for an episode where they weren't in it at all. If they did a strictly NY episode, I suspect some would be saying they don't need the McKinley side. After Glease, I read multiple reviews that suffered serious nostalgia when the originals performed YTOTIW. I think FRIB are still trying to make the newbs happen, but if people are still indifferent by the end of the year, I think they will go for the NY focus next year. There will be no more originals left at McKinley. Sam should graduate this season, along with Tina, Artie, Bland, and Brit.

As for ratings, Fox will not be afraid to make notes and comments on how RIB should be producing the show. In the first season, when the deal was made for the back 9 episodes, Fox gave RIB 2 notes. More Jane and more Chris. They won't be afraid to interject now, but I question who they think they need more of.

[sheny]

Also, what the hell is going to happen come season 5 when they'll graduate Tina, Blaine, Artie, and possibly Brittney? (I think they're going to keep Sam in Ohio/McKinely). I can see them loosing Tina & Artie, but are they going to keep Blaine & Brittney in Ohio like they're doing with Finn?

I really don't think they will make Blaine a Lima loser after all the worshiping he got for three seasons. They always show him like the most talented male singer, he got the lead in last year's musical, almost got the lead in 'Grease' , The Warblers and ND fought to have him in their group, because they can't win without him, he is Senior Class president and other things I can't think of right now. I don't see them leaving him in Lima like they did with Finn. And poor Britt. I don't want her to be in high school forever just because they need someone from the old cast at McKinley.
Both Brittany and Blaine deserve something better than that. I may dislike Blaine very much right now because of what he did, but I don't want him sharing Finn's faith.

I am loving this conversation

I am hoping that they drop McKinley completely next year. They should have this year. Some media (read: paid off) like to point out how NY is not needed, but that was for an episode where they weren't in it at all. If they did a strictly NY episode, I suspect some would be saying they don't need the McKinley side. After Glease, I read multiple reviews that suffered serious nostalgia when the originals performed YTOTIW. I think FRIB are still trying to make the newbs happen, but if people are still indifferent by the end of the year, I think they will go for the NY focus next year. There will be no more originals left at McKinley. Sam should graduate this season, along with Tina, Artie, Bland, and Brit.

As for ratings, Fox will not be afraid to make notes and comments on how RIB should be producing the show. In the first season, when the deal was made for the back 9 episodes, Fox gave RIB 2 notes. More Jane and more Chris. They won't be afraid to interject now, but I question who they think they need more of.

I hope for the same thing. Rachel and Kurt's life in NY, with Brody and maybe Santana, Finn and Blaine will be something fresh and more interesting. I'm tired of them recycling the same high school story lines - love triangle, football player pushing people around and calling them names (I hated Karofsky and Azimio but they at least were funny sometimes, these new guys are just annoying and even disgusting with the way they insult not just other students but a grown woman because of her weight), bitchy cheerleaders, eating disorder.
I already expect second teenage pregnancy case.

[Ranwing]

It's actually a source of great frustration to me that the network is having so much say in how the show is run, and I believe that their interferance is killing the spirit of what made Glee so special. The loss of Broadway-based material in favor of more current pop numbers is a direct result of that and instead of getting some absolutely show stopping, memorable performances like DROMP and AIWNSG, we get material that is utterly forgettable. But I think network interferance is more wide ranging and more insidious than just manipulating what music gets used.

Season one Glee was special because the show was absolutely fearless in how it conducted itself. It wasn't afraid to be subversive and allow the characters that were the protagonists to be total assholes at times. Rachel was postively manic in her behavior, and while I loved her in season one, half the time I was rooting for someone to smack her down. Quinn might have bullied her, but Rachel gave back as good as she got. Kurt, while always my favorite, was still allowed to be an absolute dick at times. The show wasn't afraid to allow the characters that we were told we should root for to behave badly. Even Blaine in season two was allowed to be inconsiderate, oblivious and at times an asshole to Kurt.

Fast foward to season 3 and Kurt is made to be completely selfless and at times a doormat to both Blaine and Rachel, not willing to stand up for himself and as a result, ended the season with no real accomplishments of his own. Quinn and Santana were blunted and made into mere props for Rachel. Now we're in season 3 and what kind of characters are we given to root for? Marley, who is so sweet and passive and incapable of standing up for herself. Ryder and Jake are just basically nice guys and bland, who only come to blows over bland Marley. The sole exception to this overload of nice is Kitty, who is being made into a one dimentional villian. In tne NY location, Kurt is still passive in how he deals with Rachel (just once, I would love to see him show some anger, resentment of jealousy over Rachel being at NYADA while he isn't) and Rachel is the poor, put upon girl at the mercy of a cruel teacher. The edge that made Glee so amazing in the beginning has been lost. Everything is calculated and managed and sanatized.

I don't think its beyond salvaging, but RIB need to be able to use their pull (and having one of the top ranked scripted shows on Fox should give them some pull) to get control of the show back and stop allowing network bigwigs from interferring so much. Glee worked because it wasn't afraid to take our assumptions about all kinds of elements of high school life and turning it on its ear. What we have now is a slightly better produced version of High School Musical.

[MissSoniaPP]

I'll do the "Devil's Advocate"

Everyone is putting the blame on new characters, and nobody puts the blame the older characters?

Tina, Artie, Sam, Brittany, Finn and Blaine: are characters that everyone knows, they are characters with established fanbase. They have a responsibility to hold the audience.

Marley, Kitty, Jake and Ryder: they have no history, we are only build relationship with them in this season. They still have no obligation to hold the audience as the old characters.

This last episode was focused on Blaine, who supposedly is super popular.

I honestly think people are getting tired of Glee and it has nothing to do with new characters

[brisallie]

I understand your point of view. But what I've read from the fandom is that lots of people is missing the members who have already left ND, but just next week we're going to see the old gand reunited again.

In regards of Blaine and Finn, some people are tiring how Glee sometimes focused on him so much and the same goes for Finn. I think, last season they ruined Finn at showing always his annoyed side, it was only this week when poeple saw again the goofy and likeable guy from season one and that's good. Personally I appreciated that.

And about Tina, Artie ,Brittany and Sam, all of them are loved by people but I'm not sure how much audience they drag, I think the most popular is Brittany and is only due to Brittana.

[MissSoniaPP]

I know that people miss the old ND.
But is that all the fault of bad ratings is being put in new characters.
And honestly I think they still do not have the power to ensure the audience, which natural, because people only know them this season.
They are to take the blame for something that maybe they are the less guilty.
Next week the ratings will go up, but something tells me that the numbers will not be as high as everyone is waiting. I may be wrong, but it is a feeling.

Next week I just want to see "Let's Have a Kiki"

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