Re: 5x03 "The Quarterback" Watch & Discussion thread

[brisallie]

when was season of love sung? i didn't hear it at all.

At the very beginning. Was the first scene actually.

[murasaki1]

Everything about this episode broke my heart.  I just wanted to hug everybody.

[ladydianab]

Lea Michelle tweeted tonight. Not that he should tweet or anything but wonder what Chris is doing tonight. He probably did not watch the show.

[ColdFlame96]

Lea Michelle tweeted tonight. Not that he should tweet or anything but wonder what Chris is doing tonight. He probably did not watch the show.

He is in Disneyland I believe promoting his book.

[ColdFlame96]

My thoughts on the Quarterback:
The Quarterback
Okay, let me start out by saying this thing was fucking painful as hell to watch. And the fact that my livestream kept pausing made it even worse. I’m literally numb right now.

When the newbies first came on with Seasons of Love, I was super confused because they don’t actually sing in that song, but they were lip-synching and I’m glad at least the show used it as a group song for everyone. All those mourning clothes and the picture…just no. I fucking can’t.

It opened on Kurt. God, he sounded so hollow and broken, and the worst part is that Chris wasn’t acting.

Mercedes sounded good on “I’ll Stand By You”, but I really wish Kurt had been the one to sing it. That song was the base for his and Finn’s relationship and it was much more sentimental to him than Mercedes.

I really forgot how well Jane and Chris worked together because they do. His voice fucking cracked, guys. I can’t handle this, I just…

That family scene. Dear God. Are they seriously fucking doing this? No. No no no nope. Romy. Oh my god, Romy! Carole Hudson just lost her fucking child and no. I can’t.

Oh look, Puckurt interaction. I’m sorry, but seeing Kurt in that jacket fucking kills me. It just does. I kind of liked the reminiscing though, and that Kurt didn’t take Puck’s shit. There’s the old Kurt we know and love.

Whoa. That Sue/Santana scene was really fucking intense and definitely not what I expected at all. I always thought Naya’s dramatic acting was kind of flat, but holy shit WOW. She stunned me, like my jaw literally dropped.

I’m really starting to wonder what Jenna did to piss the writers off so much because they seem to never miss a chance to make her character more unbearable with each progressing episode.

Okay, I get why Santana was making the jokes, but they just seemed really out of place and tacky. That Kurtana scene though. Man, they’ve come a long way since high school, and it’s nice to see Santana acknowledging that she’s been completely awful. You don’t know what you’ve lost until it’s gone, and I think that phrase works very well in her case. I will admit that I scoffed a bit with how she said Finn was a sweet, attentive lover. I believe it of course, but really? Did they have to go there?

Chord and Kevin sound really good together. I like this combination.

Puck and Beiste. I always love their scenes together, and it’s nice to see some consistency with it here. God, Mark killed me though. Seriously, why did they have to put the actors through this? This is just fucking cruel.

I’m sorry, but since when has Sue cared about Finn? Like Santana, she was awful to him! But maybe this is another guilt thing because Finn was a much nicer person than her.

No Surrender is still my favorite song of the whole episode. God, Mark killed it! And they even changed the lyrics to suit their relationship. Nice.

Oh, Lea. There was a reason I couldn’t fucking listen to this song when it came out. Dear God, why?

Puck joining the military. I actually like it. He’s been written off to honor Finn, and I like that.

So, Will stole the jacket. Look, I get why he did it, but I really hope he gives it back to Kurt. That was the one thing he had to remember his brother by, and it was kind of shitty of Will to take it. But wow, Matt Morrison has been so underutilized oh my god.

In short, I obviously didn’t like it because it was painful, but I thought they did a good job of respecting Finn. No relationship drama or any of that unnecessary crap. They kept the main focus on the people who were absolutely closest to Finn bar Santana, and I respect that. I respect the actors for pushing through this because if you think it was hard to watch, just imagine how hard it was for them to film.
I’m glad I was able to end my Glee experience with this episode. I feel like I have closure now, and I can move on.

[arina]

I am glad to hear the tribute episode was handled respectfully.

[ColferInspired]

I have not found a download yet, but just from the gifs of the auditorium scene with Kurt and Santana I think Kurt really knows her now.

I hope they keep with this pairing, because it works. Better than Blam, and right now better than Hummelberry.

I feel for the cast and crew and understand how hard it was to do this. But from the sounds of it it was a respectful tribute but with a few small flaws, but even when I watch it I will forgive them for it.

[fantastica]

i missed the very beginning. i think this episode is fine. the songs are actually nice. thank god the oldies are being featured and newbies and blam don't have any scenes. so much kurt - what a rare treat!

did they say how finn died?

[ColdFlame96]

i missed the very beginning. i think this episode is fine. the songs are actually nice. thank god the oldies are being featured and newbies and blam don't have any scenes. so much kurt - what a rare treat!

did they say how finn died?

No they didn't. It was specifically stated in spoilers that they weren't going to.

[Lottie2303]

Aaaand I am the only one who probably didn't cry. I liked the Kurt/Carol/Kurt scene. That one was intense, especially Carol.

You can clearly differentiate between the strong and weak actors. Chris, Naya, Matt and Lea stood out. That one tiny Klaine interaction was so cringe-worthy with Chris being a natural and Darren looking like he performed a over-dramatic comedic reaction. Nonetheless, they are engaged even though I hate it, and they are still separated by miles?! You could also clearly see they left all SL's to stronger actors and basically ignored the rest. Most of the cast didn't even utter a word during this episode. RIB: take the hint, you focus on the wrong actors!

Santana's SL doesn't make sense and I think it would have been perfectly fine to have a person mentioning the obvious: Finn was still a human being with flaws and mistakes. Isn't curious when people die they suddenly get treated like saints?

Tina was the ONLY one wearing black throughout the episode. How come she complaints about her clothes, while everyone else is colorful. They really must hate Jenna.

Lea is so thin and that doesn't look healthy.

I was underwhelmed to be honest, but think they did a good job anyway. Guess it is just being me as I can be pretty detached if needed.

[ColdFlame96]

http://ghostflame96.tumblr.com/post/63713911709/nayarivra-seasons-of-love-glee-cast-acapella

This is the acapella version of Seasons of Love. You can very clearly Chris's low register. I think him and Amber are the 2 leads, which makes me very happy. I still remember season 3 when he was always forced to sing the female parts.

[fantastica]

i didn't cry either. i am so emotionally removed from this show so it will never make me cry again. but then, i hardly ever cry at movies. but when i do cry, i cry like a river (only few times in my life, and usually happens when i have a lot of trouble in real life).

[Lottie2303]

With a bit of distance, Carole was the standout of the episode and deserves all the awards. Her line felt the most real and sounded like what a mother would say. Chris did an amazing job because he guided us through the episode. He was the one interacting with all key-players. Mark surprised me and his face during SoF stood out to me. But I don't get the obsession and honor with military. In Germany we would smack his head for going to the army in memory of a friend.  

But, big big but,Rachel was planning to return one day to Lima and marry Finn?! Oh Glee, really??! Who on their right mind gives up a BW career to live in Ohio? And why couldn't come Finn to her? Why was Rachel's future planned out all around Finn's needs? I don't care that future doesn't exist anymore, but just by telling us this was the overall plan, makes me really annoyed.

[Ranwing]

But, big big but,Rachel was planning to return one day to Lima and marry Finn?! Oh Glee, really??! Who on their right mind gives up a BW career to live in Ohio? And why couldn't come Finn to her? Why was Rachel's future planned out all around Finn's needs? I don't care that future doesn't exist anymore, but just by telling us this was the overall plan, makes me really annoyed.

I'm rather forgiving of this because it does fit Rachel's typical Rachel-centric mindset. That she would go off and do all the things she wanted to and then when she was ready, she could come back and Finn would have been biding his time, waiting for her. It's not at all realistic and doesn't take into account that Finn might not be content to just kill time until she deigned to fit him into her life. And considering that Rachel pretty much spent most of last season making it clear that Finn wasn't fitting into her new life, it's nothing more than a self-indulgent fantasy. But given that she is now facing the harsh reality that she has indeed lost Finn forever, it's a fantasy that she needs to hang on to even if we know that there wasn't a chance in hell of that ever having happened.

[ColferInspired]

I am so glad she got to review this episode.

“Kurt is tasked with one of the greatest challenges of this episode — the exposition. He voice-overs the post-“Seasons of Love” start framing the time (three weeks post the funeral) and the construct (we won’t learn Finn’s cause of death and the group is gathering for a glee club memorial in Lima) before having to deal with a school full of a grief, a NYC apartment full of grief and a home full of grief in Ohio. He gathers with Carol and Burt to clean out Finn’s room, supporting his father who weeps that he never hugged Finn enough, and Carol who rocks on the floor over being a mother with no child. Kurt is no stranger to loss or the threat of it — and his grief is the continuous kind, the accepted. He knows how to keep going from this, even if it hurts. He rescues Finn’s letterman jacket from the trash, wrapping it around himself and remembering how it signified his own sort of superhero. Now that hero is gone, and Kurt doesn’t even need to hold on to the jacket for very long before he’s ready to accept and move forward, even though he shares that he’ll never stop missing Finn.”

—	Rae Votta, Billboard [x]

[Lottie2303]

^ fair point, but it still annoyed me  

[ColferInspired]

The Quarterback album is number 1 on Itunes.

[Lottie2303]

^Doesn't surprise. The ratings will also be epic. Sadly, the death of an actor also means financial success from business point of view. The rating for the next episode however will be really telling.

BTW, when does the next episode air?

[coxfire]

^Doesn't surprise. The ratings will also be epic. Sadly, the death of an actor also means financial success from business point of view. The rating for the next episode however will be really telling.

BTW, when does the next episode air?

November 7th according to the promo, I think

[Lottie2303]

^ Thank you!

[Ranwing]

If I have one real criticism of the episode, it was how self-indulgent so much of the grief displays were. There was nothing really constructive about the group gathering to sing about their feelings for Finn and how his loss affected them. The only ones who made real and concrete efforts to memorialize Finn properly were those in the group who were most deserving of consolation - Kurt and Rachel. It would have been good if someone (Will, Sue) made a point that instead of just focusing on how sad they were (and they had every right to be sad), to honor Finn's memory with doing something constructive. Do something nice for the Hudmels since they were the ones really suffering. Support a charity in Finn's honor. Anything.

It also was strange that the only one who was able to take losing Finn as a way to recalibrate how he percieved life was Puck. In a way that was somewhat fitting, as Puck has been so completely directionless and Finn's death threw into sharp relief his worse fear - to never accomplish anything in his life that is meaningful. Finn dying so young cut short his chances to do something with his life and it's fitting that Puck came around to take this as a valuable lesson and to not give into his fears about not deserving to have a good life and will grab what chance he can. The military would be a good fit for Puck because it will give him so many of the things that he has been without for far too long - a purpose, direction and perhaps most importantly, boundaries. Puck's story on Glee is likely over, but it's ended on a hopeful note.

I know that RM has mentioned that Finn's death will come up again and I hope that it's done more meaningfully than just to inspire ND to win Nationals in his memory. For those that were closest to Finn, there are some very valuable lessons that they need to take from his loss.

Rachel - The arguement can be made that the primary reason that Rachel lost Finn was because of her inability to bend enough to allow him a place in her life as she accends towards certain stardom. Finn couldn't keep up with her, so Rachel left him behind with the fantasy that she would pick up where she left off once she had obtained her goals. That's not realistic, obviously, and it highlights Rachel's tendency to throw her relationships under the bus if they get in the way of her ambition. I've always believed that Rachel's ambitions was one of her most admirable qualities, but she takes it to the extreme of being destructive. We've seen this so many times, when she would rather sacrifice the well-being of those around her rather than step back. Rachel lost her chance to keep the man she loved in her life because she refused to compromise and because he cared enough about her to know that asking her to hold herself back in any manner would only lead to resentment in the end. If Rachel can learn anything from losing Finn is that she has to learn to compromise and that it can't just be me me me! all the time. Otherwise she runs the very great liklihood of achieving all the professional goals she has, but ending up totally alone.

Kurt - Kurt has just the opposite problem that Rachel has. He sacrifices too much of himself for others. How many times have we seen him swallow dissapointment and let opportunities pass him back in favor of letting those he cared about benefit? Whether it was the Defying Gravity solo, or all the times he was content to sit back and allow Rachel or Blaine to soak up the limelight while he played the dutiful supporting role, Kurt has always been the giver in his relationships. We saw a trace of him stepping back form that last week when he told Rachel that he wasn't pinning all his hopes for happiness on his engagement to Blaine, but it needs to be more than just that. Finn ended up floundering because he was trying to keep in line with what Rachel wanted rather than figuring out his own aspirations and fighting for them. Kurt has to be willing to stand up for what he wants more and fight for his own dreams. Otherwise he runs the risk of ending up as Finn did - a whole lot of potential that went untapped because he always put others before himself.

[Ireth]

This was very respectfully done, and I cried throughout...

The Hudmels scene was the hardest to watch, so was Puck and Beiste. I was pleasantly surprised at what Santana's big role in today's episode was. And Kurt really was so strong throughout the episode, comforting everybody and not leaning on anyone. I wish someone would hug him.

[Glorfindel]

This is what I wrote on TWoP. I'll make another post reacting to some comments here after this one:



How do you say “This was a good episode” when the reason why this episode needed to be made in the first place is so sad and horrible?
 
The writing was solid for once, although not completely void of the usual clunky dialogue and scenes that turn out offensive and/or creepy when they are not supposed to we’ve come to expect from these writers. Yet, this episode shows that RIB can do a fair job if their hearts are in it.
It was good to see that the important people in Finn’s life all got their heartbreaking moments (except for Quinn, alas). There were several moments that had me tear up, especially the Hudmel scene with Carol expressing the fear of every parent, but strangely enough what really got me was Sue saying that Finn would have become an excellent teacher. That was future stuff for Finn that now will never be, not remembering his past like the others did, and it really hit home that his (and Cory's) life was cut off so young.
The quote on the plaque made me laugh. Overall there was a good balance between tearing up and a few genuine chuckles.
 
Most of the characters reacted as I think they would have. I liked how they made Finn’s jacket the common thread, the catalyst for their individual grief, even when it took some weird actions from several characters (Will, Kurt) to keep that symbolism up and running. But it also had the unfortunate result that Puck was treated very unfairly because of it, which was the biggest discord for me this episode: there should have been another scene where someone (preferably Kurt or Will, or Puck’s half brother Jake) apologized to Puck before he rode off into the sunset.
 
I didn’t mind the extra focus on Santana. First of all: at least they were smart enough to use their best actors for this episode (really RIB: it does make quite a difference). And secondly: in my personal experience I think the ones who were not the immediate nearest to the deceased person often are the loudest in grieving and demanding attention, even when it’s negative attention, while the ones most heartbroken usually turn very quiet, taking care more of those around them who are also grieving, as their own pain is too overwhelming to deal with and a lot longer lasting so it can wait till the turmoil of the first weeks are over.
 
Before this episode I was criticizing the writers for not wanting to mention how Finn died. And I still hope that they will address it someday in a future episode. Glee is supposed to be telling the stories of these kids after all, which need a beginning, a middle, but also a proper ending.
But what they had some of the characters (Kurt, Sue) say about it not being important to focus now (when they were remembering his life) on how Finn died rang true for me, especially with the real cause of death of Cory in most viewers’ mind anyway. As Puck pointed out: what mattered was the line inbetween the numbers of the years of his birth and death, and that goes for both Finn and Cory.
 
As for the cast (and crew)….. my deepest respect. Part of me felt uncomfortable watching them having to go through their real grief again on screen. Some reactions in certain scenes felt too personal, the camera too invasive, and it left me with the uncomfortable feeling that I was intruding on something that should have stayed behind closed doors. And the last thing I want to do is to speculate and dwell on which scenes were the actual actors breaking down instead of their characters.
I’m glad there was a clear script the actors could hold on to, with actual storylines for the characters who were closest to Finn, giving this episode at least the impression that they were mourning Finn, not Cory, even though they of course were.
Was it worth it? As long as the cast felt alright with it afterwards: yes, it certainly was. This episode was cathartic for many of  the fans: it provided some sort of closure and chance to grieve together, and I really hope this was true for most of the cast and crew as well.
They gave us a beautiful gift, but I’m sorry it came at such a hard price for them.
 
I can say more, certainly nitpick at a few things, but I will save it for later. This was a difficult situation the writers were in and they handled it as best they could (and I mean this literally), even dodged a few bullets here and there.
So yes: this was a good episode. It actually makes me mad to see that RIB still know exactly what Glee’s strong points are, while they keep giving us the crap that Glee has become the last seasons. And it’s also a bit sad to realize that this episode was indeed 'season 1 good', when Finn and Rachel had just met, Mr. Shue planted pot in Finn’s locker to make him join glee club, and Kurt thought superman had arrived everytime he saw Finn wearing that jacket.
"The show must go...all over the place...or something.": I'm gonna miss the big log.

[Glorfindel]

The Hudmel scene was heart wrenching torture.  

It was. This scene was written very truthful.
Burt regretting not hugging Finn more, and not wanting to throw that fugly lamp away.
Kurt holding on to the brush (which strangely reminded me of Cory fixing Chris' hair while filming 'Props') and smelling the jacket.
And Carol..... her pain broke my heart. Superbly acted by Romy, and, honor where honor's due, very well written by RIB.

Kurt has really grown himself a set of balls for standing up to Puck over keeping Finn's jacket. I think if Puck had tried to press the point, Kurt would have ripped his head off.

Yes, the tables were turned. I guess Kurt's line (improvised by Chris, btw) "One day you'll all work for me" had its resonance in this scene. Kurt was so much superior to Puck here.

As for Kurt not giving the jacket to Puck:
Although I felt sorry for Puck, I can understand that Kurt was not ready to give up the jacket yet, as he specifically picked out that item for himself. And all of us who have experienced losing someone close know that emotions are raw at those times, and that includes feeling selfish and lashing out, which both Puck and Kurt did here (and Santana later at Sue).
And didn't Puck live with Finn in the college dorms? So he would have enough belongings of Finn there to keep to remember him by. But it's Glee, I guess.  

Dotty is a cheerio?

I guess 'new Santana Lopez' Bree kept her word after the Carrie slushie incident.

I can relate to what Will is going through.  I was like Will when my mom died.  I was the one in my family who kept it together for everyone.  I had a moment or two, but I was strong for everyone else.

Me too when my father died. And it's not just helping them, but yourself too, knowing you're useful to others, and having something to occupy your time and thoughts.
People just grieve in different ways.

One thing I've noticed is that no one is really reaching out to Kurt (though Blaine just took his hand). Everyone is getting comforted by someone, but Kurt has been mostly dealing with this on his own and he's lost his brother. I don't think that's really registering with anyone because they're all so caught up in their own grief. He's so much stronger than they are.

Yes, he is. It is in Kurt's character, but as much as I would like to think that noone looking after Kurt (although Sue's "sweet gentle Porcelain" was nice) and him looking after others was deliberately planned by the writers, I'm afraid that it simply probably was RIB not being able to remember and write for the (old) friendships in the canon.

Mercedes should have been there for Kurt, not the other way around (when Kurt put his arm on her chair during Rachel's song), Puck and Kurt should have bonded more over Finn's death if only after their initial falling out, and Santana should have supported Kurt after her breakdown. And don't get me started on Blaine and Kurt not even sitting together most of the time! I hate this pairing with a blinding passion, but come on: they are a couple: Blaine should have been allowed to comfort him, or at least be there for him like Emma was for Will. They didn't even talk with one another!

Minus the absence of Quinn (which really is noticeable) I think that the ep did Cory and Finn's memory justice. I have my quibbles, but they're minor ones and not worth really bringing up until we've all had a chance to absorb this.

I feel the same. There were things that jarred, there always are with RIB, but overall I think they exceeded expectations and did their best.
I will treasure this episode and consider it a very good farewell to both Finn and Cory.

P.S As I got late, I searched the episode online and I had to stop it because the beginning with Seasons of Love already broke me down. For me that moment is the Glee Cast saying goodbye to Cory  

It was the cast saying goodbye, not the characters. At least that's how it seemed to me, and I also think that's how they wanted it to seem.
I was weirded out by the new ND characters starting the song because they are definitely not on the track, so I think it would have been better if Chris, Naya, Harry, Jenna, Amber and Mark had been visible among them from the very beginning, but I'll take it.
I also would have wished that the adult actors had been in that scene, at least Matt and Jane.

Whoa. That Sue/Santana scene was really fucking intense and definitely not what I expected at all. I always thought Naya’s dramatic acting was kind of flat, but holy shit WOW. She stunned me, like my jaw literally dropped.

Their fight felt very real to me. As I said above all the raw emotions come out when grieving and people react very differently.
I remember that when my father died (21 years ago) one of my uncles (his brother) at one point threw a hissy fit, demanding all the attention because "noone was grieving as much as him", and I also remember how furiously I reacted to that (not to him directly, fortunately). That's how it is: being human and hurting.
 
Jane and Naya were both great in this scene: I doubted Naya's dramatic acting too, but this was excellent work.

Puck and Beiste. I always love their scenes together, and it’s nice to see some consistency with it here. God, Mark killed me though. Seriously, why did they have to put the actors through this? This is just fucking cruel.

The locker room was so painful to watch. Mark was clearly losing it (and I think Dot was too) and yet he had to go on, practically shouting himself through his lines. It was cringeworthy in more ways than one, but I can't really fault Mark: his song, his look during 'Seasons of Love'...it was clear he loved Cory very much and just soldiered on during this episode.
And the last scene with the tree was a lot better. In fact: his line about a life being the line between the numbers of the years was one of the best ones of the episode.

You can clearly differentiate between the strong and weak actors. Chris, Naya, Matt and Lea stood out. That one tiny Klaine interaction was so cringe-worthy with Chris being a natural and Darren looking like he performed a over-dramatic comedic reaction. Nonetheless, they are engaged even though I hate it, and they are still separated by miles?! You could also clearly see they left all SL's to stronger actors and basically ignored the rest. Most of the cast didn't even utter a word during this episode. RIB: take the hint, you focus on the wrong actors!

This. That's how you do it, RIB.
I'd also say that Jane stood out: she manages to give Sue that crazy mix of cardboard villain and complicated 3 dimensional badass who's caring and kind at the core.


Notice: no scenes for the noobs, Chord, nor Darren. No dialogue for Blaine, nothing except that one shot with Kurt when Rachel was singing. They even cut his part at the locker memorial that was in the promo.

It felt to me that Chord had a really rough time with his grief for Cory throughout the episode, same as Kevin. Maybe not giving them lines was a merciful thing. Their duet was lovely.

The Quarterback album is number 1 on Itunes.

YES!!!
I'm glad, not just for the love it shows for Cory/Finn and his charity the money goes to, but also because these songs were the best they released in a long time.

[Ranwing]

It's rather facinating to see how differently people respond to death and the one thing I really have to give the show major props on is that the responses were so true to the characters.

With Rachel, we got the all-consuming grief where she couldn't respond or deal with things until she managed to pull herself out her her tailspin. I'm glad that Rachel was able to gather the strength to join the memorial on her own rather than have Kurt have to drag her to Lima.

Kurt showed his normal stoicism and the refusal to let people see him bleed. He was devestated, but of everyone in the group, was dealing with it best because he's unfortunately had so much practice. Having had his life touched by death as often as it has been, he knows better than most that you have no choice but to move forward, which allowed him to be the comforter when he by all rights deserved by be comforted. He was the thread that basically held the episode together.

Santana responded with snark and Puck with anger because the two of them were not capable of showing vulnerability until it gets ripped out of them. Will tries to be strong for his students and neglects his own very real grief. Tina is grieving and apparently is at a loss of when it's okay to start returning to normal (or even knowing what normal is going to be after this). And Burt and Carol... parents dealing with a loss that no parent is ever really prepared for.

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