Re: General Glee Discussion Thread-Part 2

[Buenos]

The network is making it very clear where they think that the draw is and it is not with Darren. And its not even with Lea (both she and her character can be very, very polarizing). They went with Chris and Chris alone. I would have been pleasantly surprised to see Chris and Lea used to promote Glee since they are the two actors (along with Jane) who are best known and have the most critical acclaim. But they made the decision to feature only Chris. That is pretty mind blowing for me. And gets me to be cautiously optimistic that we will see more focus on Chris/Kurt next season.

I disagree that Lea/Rachel is all that polarizing. In addition I would credit some of the success of Glee to Lea, (as well as to Chris and the rest of the original cast.). If she's "polarizing" I don't see it any more or less than the characters of Kurt, Finn, Santana, Blaine, etc.

However Season 4 was so bizarre in that there was this cognitive dissonance ALL SEASON LONG where Rachel, Kurt, Santana, Finn, Santana, etc, were left out of the SL's and screentime and yet used disproportionately in both print and on air advertising /promotions, etc for those same episodes. The nadir was Glease when Chris Colfer had to admit to interviewers he wasn't actually in the musical for that episode...LOL

The cynic in me isn't quite prepared that having Kurt be in the Print Promos for Season 5 guarantees him a larger role (the fan in me hopes and prays it's true). Glee/FOX has burned Kurt fans too many times to have faith in what they seem to be implying.

[ColdFlame96]

Okay, so I was just in the GF, and apparently Melissa, Jacob, and Becca have all been promoted to regulars. That makes me nervous. If they were really serious about NY, why bother promoting the newbies?

[Buenos]

Okay, so I was just in the GF, and apparently Melissa, Jacob, and Becca have all been promoted to regulars. That makes me nervous. If they were really serious about NY, why bother promoting the newbies?

There was a press release by FOX per season 5 that had them in the cast in alphabetical order with the rest of the regulars. It did not have either Alex or Blake. However it still included Heather (and misspelled Lea Michele's name...LOL).

Mark, Amber and Harry were absent from that list.

As of now, however, FOX has not made any regular announcement that they are now REGULARS, they could of course, but it hasn't been officially confirmed by anyone at the network. Having said that, others have been promoted to REGULAR but it doesn't mean their screen time was increased significantly. You have Mike O'Malley after season 1 as an example of this. Making them Regulars could be a way of committing the Noobs to the show/tying them down without automatically implying they are going to get the main focus all season long.

[Glorfindel]

^I agree with that. The listing of the cast has been very irregular and with a lot of faults in season 4. As long as there is no official statement about the noobs, they are not regulars yet.

Dear God, I hope so. Chris certainly deserves better treatment than he's been getting the past 2 seasons.

And I only remember him doing 2 solos. What was the 3rd one?

Kurt only had 2 solos: 'Being Alive' and 'You Are the Sunshine of My Life'. Some also count 'Bring Him Home' as a solo, because a solo version was released on iTunes, but in the show it was a Hummelberry duet (although not a real one).

The cynic in me isn't quite prepared that having Kurt be in the Print Promos for Season 5 guarantees him a larger role (the fan in me hopes and prays it's true). Glee/FOX has burned Kurt fans too many times to have faith in what they seem to be implying.

This.
I will not let my guard down and my hope up when it comes to Kurt's screentime and songs on Glee.

[fantastica]

chris was int he forefront of last year's Fox Upfront and he got much reduced role in teh following season, so don't bet on his increased role simply because he's prominent in hte upfront or fox used his photo for promo. last year they said rachel would in every single episode. she wasn't in 3 (or was it 2?). we all know writers can change script in the last minute. even if they intended to give some people a lot of screen time it doesn't mean he/she will end up getting it.

[MoviesAreLife]

Sooo...let me get this straight.

Fall 2013: Blaine and McKinley

Several Month Hiatus

Spring 2014-Summer 2014: Blaine's NYC Adventures

Ugh.

I still like my two shows idea. McKinley for those who want it, NYC spin off for us. But I guess that would be impossible/too expensive. I don't know whether they will drop the newbies or not while moving to NYC, but I wish them the best. They are all very talented. And I honestly don't want a time jump...time jumps just feel weird to me. I hate losing to much time (aka, Rachel's road to Broadway, Kurt's relationship with Adam, Kurt's life as a student and a worker, Santana's dancing dream). To have a time jump would make me feel like I've missed out on so much.

I just thought of something for Finn and Puck. What if they make Puck and Finn go the Ben Affleck/Matt Damon route to create the next "Good Will Hunting"? Puck can write the script, Finn can act, and Artie can direct. I actually like the idea of Finn going into teaching and I'm glad that The Actor's Studio didn't pan out, but this is just a thought. Mostly, I just want to see Artie direct something great like I know he is capable of, and I want to see Puck's "screenwriting" career to be taken seriously and to be treated less like a joke. I believe in Artie and his directing dream, but everytime Puck mentions his "screenwriting" dream, I just want to punch something. I hate to see screenwriting being made fun of.

[Jellyrolls]

Sooo...let me get this straight.

Fall 2013: Blaine and McKinley

Several Month Hiatus

Spring 2014-Summer 2014: Blaine's NYC Adventures

Ugh.

I still like my two shows idea. McKinley for those who want it, NYC spin off for us. But I guess that would be impossible/too expensive. I don't know whether they will drop the newbies or not while moving to NYC, but I wish them the best. They are all very talented. And I honestly don't want a time jump...time jumps just feel weird to me. I hate losing to much time (aka, Rachel's road to Broadway, Kurt's relationship with Adam, Kurt's life as a student and a worker, Santana's dancing dream). To have a time jump would make me feel like I've missed out on so much.

I just thought of something for Finn and Puck. What if they make Puck and Finn go the Ben Affleck/Matt Damon route to create the next "Good Will Hunting"? Puck can write the script, Finn can act, and Artie can direct. I actually like the idea of Finn going into teaching and I'm glad that The Actor's Studio didn't pan out, but this is just a thought. Mostly, I just want to see Artie direct something great like I know he is capable of, and I want to see Puck's "screenwriting" career to be taken seriously and to be treated less like a joke. I believe in Artie and his directing dream, but everytime Puck mentions his "screenwriting" dream, I just want to punch something. I hate to see screenwriting being made fun of.

If they were going to do a spin off, it should have happened last September. But Fox realized the show wouldn't survive without Chris, Lea, Cory, and Naya.

[ChrisColferFan1]

Sooo...let me get this straight.

Fall 2013: Blaine and McKinley

Several Month Hiatus

Spring 2014-Summer 2014: Blaine's NYC Adventures

Ugh.

I still like my two shows idea. McKinley for those who want it, NYC spin off for us. But I guess that would be impossible/too expensive. I don't know whether they will drop the newbies or not while moving to NYC, but I wish them the best. They are all very talented. And I honestly don't want a time jump...time jumps just feel weird to me. I hate losing to much time (aka, Rachel's road to Broadway, Kurt's relationship with Adam, Kurt's life as a student and a worker, Santana's dancing dream). To have a time jump would make me feel like I've missed out on so much.

I just thought of something for Finn and Puck. What if they make Puck and Finn go the Ben Affleck/Matt Damon route to create the next "Good Will Hunting"? Puck can write the script, Finn can act, and Artie can direct. I actually like the idea of Finn going into teaching and I'm glad that The Actor's Studio didn't pan out, but this is just a thought. Mostly, I just want to see Artie direct something great like I know he is capable of, and I want to see Puck's "screenwriting" career to be taken seriously and to be treated less like a joke. I believe in Artie and his directing dream, but everytime Puck mentions his "screenwriting" dream, I just want to punch something. I hate to see screenwriting being made fun of.

If they were going to do a spin off, it should have happened last September. But Fox realized the show wouldn't survive without Chris, Lea, Cory, and Naya.

True.

[Glorfindel]

If they were going to do a spin off, it should have happened last September. But Fox realized the show wouldn't survive without Chris, Lea, Cory, and Naya.

And yet they put 95% of their eggs in the Lima basket, ignoring and neglecting the old cast, and almost killing off the show that way anyway.
They really only used Chris, Lea, Naya and Cory for the necessary life support, without whom Glee would have died within a few episodes, and nothing more. And now Glee is still very, very sick, because they have starved it from healthy nutritions and vitamins: the old characters.

To continu with the medical/patient comparison: the big 3 and Naya (and maybe other old characters like Puck, Mercedes and Quinn) are the only medicine that might revive Glee, but by now Glee is so weakened that even that medicine might come too late, especially if they will refuse to give it till April 2014.

It's so disrespectful to the actors. They were the ones that made Glee big and kept it popular in the weaker seasons 2 and 3, and instead of rewarding them with a spin-off they pinned them down to save a bad show.
TPTB know they owe a lot to Chris, Lea etc. and in a way it should have been flattering that they still needed them in season 4 of Glee, but they 'thanked' them by giving them crap storylines, tying them down to the boring Lima characters to prop them up, and by completely sidelining and even silencing their characters.

RIB didn't reward Chris, Lea etc. for having done good for the show: they punished them for still being needed.

[brisallie]

RIB didn't reward Chris, Lea etc. for having done good for the show: they punished them for still being needed.

I don't know how are Ian and Brad, but I know very well how big is Ryan's ego. And I bet he's still hurt his original idea of having different generations for Glee, it didn't work. And I think he should appreciate what Chris,Lea and company have provoked on the audience. He had the formula to keep this show for more years, but he throw it away because of his stubborness.

[Jellyrolls]

I really do feel that if they had done the spinoff last season, most fans would have been more open minded about both shows. I think the biggest obstacle that the newbies faces is that a lot of people have negative opinions based upon the fact that they have taken screentime away from the cast that we got to know and love over three years.

My sisters, who are glee fans, but don't favor any characters feel that they couldn't really get to know the new characters because they kept on bringing in old cast members.

[Ranwing]

It was always my impression that there was a certain amount of resentment on RM's part that he was being forced to keep Lea, Chris, Cory, et al, on the show rather than getting the spin off that he wanted where he could transition the old characters out (and maybe let them have a show separate from Glee which could follow them into their adult careers) and keep Glee purely in the high school focusing on the choir room. That was his vision for the show and then Graduation Gate hit. RM should have expected that there would be a lot of upset at having the old favorites of the show and the shitstorm that followed should not have been any kind of surprise. That he would have his Golden Globe winner wondering publicly if he still had a job and multiple media outlets questioning if Glee would be able to survive without their most recognizable talents. So RM backtracked and we got the announcement that pretty much no one was leaving. We were assured that Lea would still be in every episode and they began to talk about a split focus where Lea and Chris would anchor the NY storyline while new characters would breathe fresh live into the McKinley local.

When all this started, I was expecting there to be something of a 50/50% split between the locals. That was a foolish assumption on my part because I failed to account that RM would be resentful as all hell that his judgment was being called into question, and that the question of whether Glee’s strongest performers were as important (or more important) to the show than the “formula”. We also had RM having to deal with his mistake of keeping the core cast for the duration of the three seasons without any major infusion of new blood (when the process of transitioning old characters out and bringing in new ones should have started in season 2). So he responded by doing what he wanted – focusing almost exclusively on McKinley and leaving bare scraps of time for the NY storylines. His assurance that at least Lea would be in every ep became a blatant lie when she (along with Chris) were totally excluded from three episodes and had several where she might appear in a single brief scene (Chris getting the same treatment to a larger degree). It was as if he was punishing Cory, Lea, Chris and Naya for being popular enough and considered critically important enough for the public to believe that Glee wouldn't flourish without them and he was going to prove all the naysayers wrong.

Except… they weren’t. The noobs, as a whole, were at best tolerated and not embraced. He assumed that Darren was popular enough to carry the series, that Heather could be elevated to a lead and than the new actors brought in would make us not miss Lea, Chris, Cory, Amber, et al, so much. The old favorites were accorded a bare minimum of time, any many appeared only to prop up the noobs rather than have actual storylines of their own. He was wrong at every level. And the network has finally stepped in and made it clear that if Glee was going to continue, it was not going to continue in its current incarnation.

[ColdFlame96]

It was always my impression that there was a certain amount of resentment on RM's part that he was being forced to keep Lea, Chris, Cory, et al, on the show rather than getting the spin off that he wanted where he could transition the old characters out (and maybe let them have a show separate from Glee which could follow them into their adult careers) and keep Glee purely in the high school focusing on the choir room. That was his vision for the show and then Graduation Gate hit. RM should have expected that there would be a lot of upset at having the old favorites of the show and the shitstorm that followed should not have been any kind of surprise. That he would have his Golden Globe winner wondering publicly if he still had a job and multiple media outlets questioning if Glee would be able to survive without their most recognizable talents. So RM backtracked and we got the announcement that pretty much no one was leaving. We were assured that Lea would still be in every episode and they began to talk about a split focus where Lea and Chris would anchor the NY storyline while new characters would breathe fresh live into the McKinley local.

When all this started, I was expecting there to be something of a 50/50% split between the locals. That was a foolish assumption on my part because I failed to account that RM would be resentful as all hell that his judgment was being called into question, and that the question of whether Glee’s strongest performers were as important (or more important) to the show than the “formula”. We also had RM having to deal with his mistake of keeping the core case for the duration of the three seasons without any major infusion of new blood (when the process of transitioning old characters out and bringing in new ones should have started in season 2). So he responded by doing what he wanted – focusing almost exclusively on McKinley and leaving bare scraps of time for the NY storylines. His assurance that at least Lea would be in every ep became a blatant lie when she (along with Chris) were totally excluded from three episodes and had several where she might appear in a single brief scene (Chris getting the same treatment to a larger degree). It was as if he was punishing Cory, Lea, Chris and Naya for being popular enough and considered critically important enough for the public to believe that Glee would flourish without them and he was going to prove all the naysayers wrong.

Except… they weren’t. The noobs, as a whole, were at best tolerated and not embraced. He assumed that Darren was popular enough to carry the series, that Heather could be elevated to a lead and than the new actors brought in would make us not miss Lea, Chris, Cory, Amber, et al, so much. The old favorites were accorded a bare minimum of time, any many appeared only to prop up the noobs rather than have actual storylines of their own. He was wrong at every level. And the network has finally stepped in and made it clear that if Glee was going to continue, it was not going to continue in its current incarnation.

I totally agree. I feel like the breadcrumbs the originals got in terms of stories, was Ryan being spiteful. I almost felt like he was saying "You want the originals? Fine! Here they are! Now stop bitching and focus on the newbies." What an ass.

[brisallie]

I totally agree. I feel like the breadcrumbs the originals got in terms of stories, was Ryan being spiteful. I almost felt like he was saying "You want the originals? Fine! Here they are! Now stop bitching and focus on the newbies." What an ass.

I bet that exactly what he thought lol. Currently I don't know what are they going to do to save this ship that is sinking. Because it seems to me he has to please everyone. By one side, believe it or not, they're people who love they bring the newbies because it brought a new air to the show (yeah sure ) but also are agree they have to be separated from the old cast and have their own storyline. And by other side, we're those who want more NY and rip off MK. So it seems his hand are tied.

[valkeakuulas]

There are people rooting for Glee to get Emmy nods, after they annouced some of the eps at the UpFronts. With what? What were the eps sent for qualification besides Shitting Stars?

Not only was the season really choppy and besides The Break-Up I didn't see any stellar TV. Even TBUs level of excellence can be questioned.

[ColdFlame96]

There are people rooting for Glee to get Emmy nods, after they annouced some of the eps at the UpFronts. With what? What were the eps sent for qualification besides Shitting Stars?

Not only was the season really choppy and besides The Break-Up I didn't see any stellar TV. Even TBUs level of excellence can be questioned.

I still liked this season better than last season. S3 was just plain ridiculous and nothing made sense. Why did kurt and Rachel only apply to one college? I understand confidence, but that's just plain writers failure. How the hell did Rachel even make it? That still hasn't been explained to us. Big fail. Honestly, my favorite season was season 2. Lot more of kurt, and less Rachel.

[Buenos]

I thought Season 4 was the worst for a very basic reason: mostly it was about the NOOBs and Blam in McKinley for most episodes. Boring storylines with boring characters.

Hardly any Kurt, Rachel or Santana and most of original character sidelined. Just horrible.

[arina]

Yeah, last year was horrible but at least the original kids got some screentime... This year is just Blee with support of Sam and Jarley.

[fantastica]

i dont know if this season is better or worse. all i know is that i didn't watch half of the episodes (only kurt edits for these episodes if kurt was there), and i didn't even listen to most of the songs. my interest in glee is almost extinguished if not for chris and this damn sweet forum.

emmy? zzzzzzzzzzz

[ColdFlame96]

Yeah, last year was horrible but at least the original kids got some screentime... This year is just Blee with support of Sam and Jarley.

Very true, but Blaines been taking up screentime since he was introduced. I didn't mind Sam as much because he's been here since season 2 and I'm glad he finally got some screentime. And honestly, the few bits of Kurt we did see this year were still better than last year because he wasn't miserable and failing. This year he got his confidence back(also a plus!), he's single and free, and he's doing comedy again. Those few wins still won't make up for the atrocity of losses known as season 3, but its a very good start. Hopefully, the reviews and ratings this season were able to deflate RM's gigantic ego and now he'll get a clue and stop the titanic from sinking.

[Ranwing]

The big difference between Blaine this season vs Blaine in past seasons is that at least in seasons 2 and 3, when he was on screen, Kurt was there 99% of the time as the counterbalance. Blaine screen time equaled Kurt screen time (for the most part). And Darren definately benefited from having an actor like Chris to work off of, who elevated his performances (though in Big Brother, the one ep where he really had scenes without Chris, his performance on a whole was pretty cringeworthy). This season was when his increased screen time was completely divorced from Chris/Kurt and it resulted in a lot less screen time for the character that we wanted to see and some pretty laughable performances. Because despite the perpetual boner that RM has for Blarren, the boy is just incapable of carrying big dramatic scenes. And instead of having a actor working with him that forces him to up his game, they stuck him with Chord who is also a fairly medicore actor.

The scenes that Chris had this season to work with, while far too few IMO (a sentiment I think is universally shared here) are better than a lot of what he ended up with last season because he wasn't stucky always having to carry a weaker actor. He worked with Lea, SJP, Whoopi, Oliver... some very talented performers. And his scenes with Naya popped. There were so many great moments this season that really stand out and show him as a great comedic and dramatic actor. That scene in Diva when he and Rachel were arguing still stands as one of my favorites of the season.

[Glorfindel]

^Yes, that fight scene with Rachel was one of the best scene of the season for me too.
I think for Kurt this season was better than season 3, because he had achievements and wins, although he lost his bf in a very bad way and his father had cancer. But he is in New York now, where he is appreciated and accepted.
However as a Kurtsie and general Gleek I liked season 3 better, because although Kurt was losing all the time he was so much on screen and he had songs, solos and group numbers. Plus the old cast was still together, and in no way can the new ND compare to that dynamic. Season 4 was just horrible, boring and frustrating.

I really do feel that if they had done the spinoff last season, most fans would have been more open minded about both shows. I think the biggest obstacle that the newbies faces is that a lot of people have negative opinions based upon the fact that they have taken screentime away from the cast that we got to know and love over three years.

I agree. They probably would have lost some viewers on the original show is the old characters had left for the spin-off, but I doubt it would be so many as have left now during season 4.
The spin-off would have been succesful probably, and the old new Glee would have had a revival with new characters who wouldn't be hated for taking away screentime and songs from the old characters, and who's 2.0 characterisations wouldn't have to compete with and pale in comparison to the originals whenever the 1.0 versions came back for a cameo.

There are people rooting for Glee to get Emmy nods, after they annouced some of the eps at the UpFronts. With what? What were the eps sent for qualification besides Shitting Stars?

Not only was the season really choppy and besides The Break-Up I didn't see any stellar TV. Even TBUs level of excellence can be questioned.

As far as I understand they submit 6 episodes for the Emmys. Four episodes have been revealed: 'The New Rachel', TBU, 'Feud' and 'Shooting Star'. One of those is not like the others.
But at least in those other 3 episodes Kurt has some screentime, although sadly only a few lines in 2 songs (in TBU).

[Divalicious]

If only they could take the screen time of seasons 2 and 3, and combine that with his comedy and moments of happiness in season 4. It would have been halfway decent. I don't give a crap about the noobs, but I don't hate them either. If only they had given them the humor they gave Blam, instead of regressing Blaine to a costume wearing 5 year old. The noobs at least are supposed to be sophmores, Blaine is a senior, and should be just a bit more progressed than the kids two years younger than him. But they realize Blaine can't do serious, so did play to his strength, to the detriment of us caring about the noobs, or at least having fun with them. They also decided to "make up" for Blaine's cheating by giving the audience tons of reasons to forgive him/forget what he did. If they had decided to give Kurt's POV, the audience would have to wonder why Kurt would take back this person who hurt him so very much, and since they didn't want to write any drama for Blaine, they just sweep everything under the carpet. So much of this show has been damaged by continuing to keep Blaine as the superstar, when he just doesn't have the chops.

[Glorfindel]

^I agree.
Now that season 4 is over I came to the conclusion that although I'm not really interested in the noobs because their lack of charisma and chemistry together fails to hide the atrocious writing (whereas the old cast made the bad writing at least work somewhat) they don't annoy me as much as all the Blaine, Blam, Blina and Bram.
Marley is boring and a wet blanket, and even though Blake is a decent actor I don't give a damn about Ryder and his catfish, but Puck's baby brother is a good dancer and singer and Kitty at least has a personality to be annoyed about. Alex is a horrible actor but Unique is okay in small doses.
But the seniors who got all the focus in season 4 really pissed me off. There's a reason why all these characters were 2nd and 3rd tier before because their actors cannot carry the show. It was just cringeworthy to watch. And in the mean time Artie, who is played by a great singer and a decent actor, was forgotten and pushed to the background. And don't get me started on the adult characters hardly getting anything at all this season. If I was a Wemma fan I'd be very pissed.

Not that I want to keep the noobs in season 5. I feel sorry for those actors if they lose their steady pay on Glee, but Lima can go away for all I care, because McKinley storylines just don't work anymore.
I know we can't avoid Blaine going to New York, but at least I hope they keep Sam, Tina and Brittany far, far away from the East Coast.

[Glorfindel]

Season 4 total charted songs: 3/135
(this total includes 4 songs from Christmas Album Vol. 3 that weren't performed in 4x10, counts the solo versions of "Bring Him Home" as 1 entry, and excludes cut songs "Mister Monotony" and "Dancing on My Own")
ONTD_Glee

Only 3 songs charted this season..........................

(I only know about 'Let Me Love You', and I guess that 'The Scientist' charted too. Don't know the 3rd one.)

So much for the myth of justifying why some characters/actors sing a lot because they presumably sell so well.

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