Re: General Glee Discussion Thread-Part 2

[ChrisColferFan1]

That's sweet. Oliver knows Kadam fans have his back against the hate he gets.

Agree 100%.

[MoviesAreLife]

The Kadam fandom is very small right now next to the Klainers because we're so new. Kadamers have only had a few months to grow whereas Klainers have had a few years. But give it time. Glee fans are slowly, but surely, seeing how much better Adam is for Kurt. It takes time to mature.

[Jellyrolls]

New Oliver videos on Vimeo!

Seriously, the force Chris to act opposite Darren when he could be acting opposite Ollie?

ETA: Oliver made the videos private, so I've deleted the links.

[MoviesAreLife]

He has such charisma! Such a charming actor! Think of the things that he and Chris can do together!

[bayth]

The thought of having Chris act opposite Ollie gives me goosebumps. The few scenes they've had together have been so good and the potential for them is so great. Knowing the writers of Glee they'll toss it aside for less talented hacks. The character of Kurt has been my favorite since I saw Kurts' deer in the headlight look in his first scene. The writers have a goldmine in their hands in Chris and Ollie and they'll squander it like they do everything else they have. It makes me want to pull my hair out.

[MoviesAreLife]

It's weird. Every showrunner...every filmmaker, every director of a play or TV show...wants to create the best possible show, right?! Pairing two strong actors together is gold. Why waste this?

[brisallie]

I don't know how it works on Glee, but it seems fandom plays an important role and probably wirters/producers are afraid they could lose some viewers if they ruin fans favorite couple. But they will lose anyway, because I've realized most of people who follows Glee is because their favorite character is still on it, they don't care about the show itself.

[MoviesAreLife]

That's true. If Kurt wasn't on, I would not continue to watch. I'll bet that Rachel, Santana, and other fans of specific characters feel the same way. But Glee is already losing veiwers because fans are becoming so annoyed with some of the decisions that the showrunners are making. Surely they know that there is a demand for NYC, for Kadam, for the death of Finchel and for things like that. They have the potential to recapture some fans if they do the opposite of what they seem to want to do, like focus on NYC, for instance.

[brisallie]

I believe what the fandom has in common is keeping watching this series because their favorite is still on it or have felt angered by Glee at some point. Though I've seen some people who're still gleeks, but isn't as much as before. And as regards Ryan, I don't know how stubborn he's, because it seems to me he's clinging to his original idea of having different generations of ND. Not mattering if some critics and fans say otherwise.

[Jellyrolls]

I think the biggest mistake Glee has made is allowing socal media and iTunes sales dictate how the show developed. Season 1 of Glee was geared to an older audience. The older audience member are far less likely to be active on social media, and the are far less likely to buy iTunes downloads (because the older you are, the less likely you are to have iPods/iPhones).

One of the reasons why Blaine/Klaine stans have had such a big say is because Blaine stans are younger and more active in social media. Younger fans are far more likely to impulsively download any song Blarren sings on, whereas older fans are more likely to only buy song they like, or wait for the compilation CDs.

I don't know what the average age of a Blarren stan is, but based on the posts and tweets I see, I would guess the average age is in the late teens.

I don't know what the average age of a Chris fan is, but on this board I would estimate the average age to be around 30. At the Tribeca Film Festival, I would say that most of the audience members were adults. The NY Festival had a mix of ages.

[Divalicious]

I would rate the Blarren fans as even younger, as most seem to have never been in a relationship before, otherwise they would recognize what an uneven relationship there is between Klaine on this show. They don't seem to have the self-awareness to acknowledge balance or other needs. It is all about them, and therefore all about Blarren.

[MoviesAreLife]

I would've thought that Blarren fans are a very young group...tweens to mid teens, at the most. 11-15. Maybe some 16-19 year olds, but it's increasingly rare. It does make sense that we Chris fans are a much older group. Take this board for instance. While there are a few teens here, most of us are in our 20's, and then there are even some of us in our 30's, 40's and even 50's. I cannot imagine 25-55 year olds ever being immature enough to love Blaine, the teen idol and teenage dream. It also makes sense that most of the Blarren fans seem inexperienced with relationships because, if they were, they'd realize that the "soulmates 4eva" crap that Glee is trying to pull is nauseating in the real world.

[Jellyrolls]

I could be wrong, but I put it a bit higher than you'd expect based on the fact that I have seen Blarren stans at Chris related events, and they have been college aged.

[MoviesAreLife]

I could be wrong, but I put it a bit higher than you'd expect based on the fact that I have seen Blarren stans at Chris related events, and they have been college aged.

If that is true, then that is just sad. College aged?! My age and believing in teen idols and soulmates forever? Perhaps I'm just cynical then, and happily so.

I assume that they've been through at least one serious relationship...so why all the fuss over an emotionally unhealthy one? Can't they see how messed up it is?

[brisallie]

I've come across with Blaine/Klaine fans older than 20 years old and I'd say they're slightly more rational than younger ones, however the average age, as you have said, is between 15-20 years old. And those girls have grown up with social medias, so everyday they're posting on tumblr,twitter or FB and buying any song Blaine releases, because they don't have to pay for it, they parents do and it seems they don't say "No". And is not only related to Blaine, I've seen the average age of those who like McKenley side and also are 15-20. So I guess they feel more connected to the high school storyline.

@MoviesAreLife, I understand your point because we're the same age, but also I try to understand why those college women believe in those things, and I don't know, probably they're just romantic or had have bad experiences in love and put they hopes in a tv couple.

[MoviesAreLife]

I guess that makes sense. I've been lucky enough to have had somewhat healthy relationships so far, but it makes sense that a person would want to see a "fairy tale" romance if they've had bad experiences in the past. Although, Klaine is not much of a fairy tale at the moment.

[bayth]

If anything I would compare Blarren with Gaston from "Beauty and the Beast". In that fairytale things don't end well for him. We can only hope that Blarren doesn't end up with the "happily ever after" with Kurt.

[arina]

It's possible that Blaine has more younger fans and Kurt more older fans but I know about quite of decent amount of Blaine's fans who are around 40 and I think tumblr is also proof that the amount of Kurt's teenage fans is not insignificant number so I don't personally think the the structure of their fandom is so different.

I think there could be more difference in the beginning of Glee when Glee was good watch for the older audience as well a Kurt looked kinda childish that he wasn't someone the teenage girl would love to "analyze" that much (ass porn, arms porn and I don't what else). With time when his storyline got weaker and got to be primarily about relationship stuff etc but Chris got older, Kurt gained alot of teenage fans but lost many of the older ones who prefered writing for him in the beginning of the show no matter how young he looked.

That said I am really glad for this forum that it's not only about exploding ovaries. :-)

[Glorfindel]

^You're right about the shallow teenage fans of Kurt/Chris, but I think he did not lose the older (both in age as in when they started becoming fans of him) fans. They are just not that vocal and/or were scared away from or gave up from posting on the general forums.
But imo they still watch Glee, and they are still fans of Kurt: they just don't 'register' anymore on the boards.

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Someone over on p_f put a link to this tumblr post. It's what an actress who worke(ed?) on AHS said about Ryan Murphy's working methode. I think it explains a lot:

Quick summary of what a French actress of AHS said about working with Ryan Murphy

So, if I remember, and if I try to write it in English clearly enough:

She explained that after she was casted (she’s one of the secondary characters), she has not met Ryan Murphy a lot of time, she said that she did not work with him actually but for him instead.

But actually, even if she didn’t have to be with him very often, she explained that he decides for all kind of things on set. Important ones and details. All. From her hair color to her socks, she said for example.

After, and this is the most interesting for me, and probably the same thing for Glee, she said that Ryan Murphy is very aware about what the audience and the fans thinks about the episodes when they’re aired, and he’s always looking for what the audience thinks.

And so, she explained that the shooting was quite cool during the weeks before the first episode was aired, but, once the show is on the TV, the shooting goes a little crazy because the scripts change a lot, every time because of that. They even begin the shooting sometimes without the complete script for the days after, because of all these changes and the writer team constantly writing and rewriting things after Ryan Murphy’s requests.

And she said, once Ryan Murphy see what the fans think about the show, he changes, or asks to the writer team to change. And sometimes he changes for what the fans request but the more often, he prefers, in the contrary, change for something else, to provoke even more the audience.

Well, I hope it’s clear, do not hesitate to ask me if not.

And if we suppose that’s also his way of working on Glee, for the writing and the shooting, it is very interesting and explain a lot of thing, doesn’t it?

tumblr

What this tells me is:
1) Ryan is an awful show runner for creating so much chaos by making last changes and therefore scripts are unacceptable late.
2) Ryan is an awful writer for not having a season's overview and writing from episode to episode without a real plan, plus for letting fans' reactions change his original ideas.
3) Ryan has too much detail control.
4) Ryan is fickle and childish. He has no scrupules to ruin his own show's characters and storylines just so he can spite the fandom and get a personal kick out of his dictatorial hissy fits. He almost literally bites the hand that feeds him.
5) Glee is d...d...doomed.

[arina]

^You're right about the shallow teenage fans of Kurt/Chris, but I think he did not lose the older (both in age as in when they started becoming fans of him) fans. They are just not that vocal and/or were scared away from or gave up from posting on the general forums.
But imo they still watch Glee, and they are still fans of Kurt: they just don't 'register' anymore on the boards.

Of course not all of the older fans quit but I personally was in contact via personal messages on forum and emails with couple of older Kurt's fans and all of them were disappointed with Kurt's changed personality, with his relationship with Blaine (although all of them were excited in the beginning for him getting a boyfriend), were mad for the writers doing from Kurt their moral mouthpiece and decided to stop watching the show... Then I remember on Gleeforum few of the older fans like Rosencrantz who started the excellent thread "Guy talk? I'm a guy." or wrote the Kurt's reviews said she wasn't satisfied with the way the writers taking Kurt and writing Kurt and said goodbye to us... of course the fans who stopped posting and did not say anything I have no idea if they still watching or they gave up. But the people on the KHAT thread are in majority different people than there were years ago.


So basically all of the things we thought about Murphy's writing process is true. I don't think there is worse way to write the show that he does it. // No one can be suprised glee is such a mess.
Murphy has a great ideas and fantasy but he should write only beginnings of shows (that are written before it gets on air and he can read fans reaction) because he always ruins what he so greatly started.

[rooszie]

The problem with glee apart the excess characters is too many stories.They start a story but they never seem to end it.There are a large number of interesting of stories started but not have ended. Or a part of the story is missing.

For example, how Kurt has decided to work in fashion. We have the middle but no beginning or end.
The fact that Finn realized that he wants to be a teacher. We have the end but no beginning or middle.

Every time they start with a story, but after that they do nothing with it. The stories that people recognize are the once played across more episode. So why not tell more of those kinds of stories.

The longer glee on TV the less they finish stories. And with the McKinley this is worse than the NY part. With the way they are filming, they should offer some sort of planning of what they want to tell by the NY part. I wish they would stop listening to the fans and would choose what they want to tell. End tell that story from start to finish.

[arina]

That is true, they very rarely do story story with gradual development, with proper beginning, middle and end these days. They either have unfinished stories or just randomly tell us what happened instead of showing us or their stories are very rushed. It would be' great to see Kurt's journey in Vogue through couple of episodes, his preparation for it, his competion about the interships with other people etc but it all started and basicaly ended in one episode.

[Lottie2303]

Funnily enough, I think Blaines cheating is one of the most consistent character traits and there has been quite a bit of foreshadowing since S2. However, I believe that is more coincidental and not on purpose. Blaine is too perfect to give him legitimate flaws. All Blainers complaining it is OOC are delusional.

Ryan Murphy is ruining the show by being arrogant, selfish and vain. He believes his vision is the only one and everyone else is just too stupid to understand his genius. Considering the Newbies are replaceable with any other teenage character of network TV, I guess he must have lost his creativity. Glee wouldn’t have been successful if the new cast would have been the originals. The original 5 are no doubt groundbreaking, unique characters. When he gets it right, he does is extremely well!

However, I do believe for Glee he is walking on very light ice and FOX is aware of it. His groundbreaking idea for S5 seems to have been dismissed by FOX and it looks like they might be more insistent to follow the networks vision and not his anymore. His ideas all failed this season and he gets highly criticized for a lot of wrong decisions (demoting the main cast, promoting boring characters, stupid storylines, Blee all over again). I also get the impression that he kind of desperate this time around? His blatant, obvious and ridiculous comment of the next episode being Emmy-worthy and all the great acting shows how desperate he is to keep MK and new cast. FOX doesn’t seem to follow all leads anymore as they have done in the past. The Sneek Peek never got promoted anywhere, so they must have picked up the negative response.

Still, Glee is most likely doomed as I can imagine Ryan Murphy destroys it on purpose to punish FOX and the fans. I also am terrified what might happen to Kurt, as I can imagine he utterly destroys the character on purpose, because he is annoyed with his fans to giving the new character a chance. He seems to be a petulant, immature, little child with no sense of responsibility, maturity and proper awareness.

ETA: Darren has mostly teenage fans, but also some in their mid-20’s. Not all are stupid, but his primary age group is young. I believe Criss is aware of it, because it is actually not the best target group. Yeah, dedicated and extremely passionate but also fickle and short-lived. Colfer has the major advantage of having an older and more diverse fanbase (look how many watch Glee just for him!). Those are the dedicated ones who are less likely to change their mind and more willing to follow a career, even after Glee is done. Criss PR team likely tried to get the Colfer fandom for his client. Hence, one of the reason Criss is so majorly disliked among Colfer fans, as we do not liked to be told how to feel about other actors. Also by ‘stealing’ his storytime on Glee (which is admittedly not Criss fault) he is actually rejecting that particular fanbase. FOX and his PR team are actually more likely ruining his chances after Glee and are not doing him any favors. I still like Criss as an actor but he really needs a different team. They are ruining his image and not actually advancing it.

[Glorfindel]

It's true a lot of Kurtsies stopped watching Glee completely. A lot of initial Glee fans overall stopped watching Glee, just look at the ratings.

I would like to think that most of those former Kurtsies are still interested in Chris' career outside of Glee. Like some of the posters on p_f and here, who don't watch Glee anymore (but maybe they watch Kurt edits just to see Chris), and they know about TLoS and SBL.


Ryan Murphy is a brilliant writer of new ideas, but he's an awful writer for a several seasons long series, and a horribly bad show runner. And his ego is as big as the dark side of the moon.

[Delight]

The problem with glee apart the excess characters is too many stories.They start a story but they never seem to end it.There are a large number of interesting of stories started but not have ended. Or a part of the story is missing.

For example, how Kurt has decided to work in fashion. We have the middle but no beginning or end.
The fact that Finn realized that he wants to be a teacher. We have the end but no beginning or middle.

Now I'm starting to understand why Kurt is getting so many voice-over scenes this season. It's the writers' way of condensing all the various bits of Kurt's NYC life (such as passion for fashion, cohabitation with Rachel, NYADA acting lessons, post-break up depression etc) in a few one-minute scenes. Brilliant.

Yes, I know I shouldn't knock it. Those voiceover scenes are comedic gold for Kurt; but I can't help feeling as if I'm still getting scraps off a table when it comes to Kurt's story this season.

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