4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

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What did you think of the episode ?

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  CloveGlee on 12/1/2012, 9:51 pm


I still wish we’d gotten another Kurt scene after the one with Isabelle – one with him talking about what Isabelle said with Rachel (or, Brody – anyone, really) and letting us know what exactly was going on in his mind. Within the space of one episode (an episode he wasn't even in!) Kurt has gone from "I don't trust you anymore" to "You're sorry and I believe you","Let's go ice-skating at Christmas" and "I love you" - and all that with no real explanation at all! Nothing much to show us how he got from point A to point B. Sure, there was that short scene with Isabelle where they talked about Blaine but that only explains why he called Blaine to get some kind of closure – but not why his whole demeanor towards Blaine would be so very different from what we saw in “Glease”, right to the point where he invites him to go ice-skating at christmas. It just felt to me like a link is missing between these scenes.

It is only because I have been watching Chris Colfer play Kurt Hummel for three years, and I've seen certain patterns develop, that I understand what has happened here. This may be part head canon.

Kurt's got walls. They are big and heavy and ice, ice cold. If you breach them he will love you with his heart hanging out, but if you violate his trust after you've pierced his armor he will can be absolutely bitchy. Part of the reason why he does that is because he's made a portion of the wall extra thick because he's still bleeding there and he's trying to protect himself... but he probably does still love you, and he'll be secretly looking for a way that it's OK for him to love and trust you again.

I have seen it three times now. Finn called him a faggot and threw stuff around the room; Kurt turned into Jack Frost around Finn after that until Finn put on the rubber dress and made Karofsky stand down. Then they were friends again.

Rachel betrayed him during the Class President race, and he treated her like a leper - but even while she was begging him to forgive you could just look at his face and tell that it was taking every bit of will he had to keep those walls in place. He was SO relieved when he was able to be her friend again.

It happened here. He knows Blaine really isn't going to be able to hand this long-distance relationship, and it's got to cut Kurt to the soul that Blaine bedded a random less than a month after Kurt left Lima. But his resolve has been wobbly all along. He wanted to go to see Grease and see Blaine; he just realized he couldn't actually talk to him when he got there. He really wanted to go home on Thanksgiving, and only stayed in New York because Rachel was being pretty spectacularly selfish. I suspect she doesn't even realize that. Isabelle was able to frame the situation in such a way that forgiveness became, not something that Kurt owed Blaine, but something he owed himself for his own peace of mind. Kurt's whole face melted in relief as soon as she told him that forgiving Blaine was the right thing to do - not because Blaine deserves it, or because Kurt was somehow at fault for the breakup Rolling Eyes but because he cannot heal until he lets this go.

I also suspect that Kurt will not realize for sure that he simply cannot be Blaine's boyfriend anymore until he sees him again. We've actually already seen that pattern. He wanted to see Blaine during Grease, but found he was not able. Also... here's what I saw in those "I love you's."

Blaine: I love you so much! (IloveyouIloveyou oh, boy, maybe we are getting back together and I have hope again I love you maybe if I say it enough times he will love me back I hope I hope I hope...)

Kurt: (OK, I just made this grand gesture and invited him to go ice skating and he's got part of my soul in his pocket and he just said he loved me. If I don't say it back, every bit of healing that just happened here is going to get thrown away and it's all going to get ripped right back open again. And it... uh... may be true. ) I love you.

I think they came up with this ending because it's the right ending. It's the fangirl's own fault if they read spoilers and assume a Klaine romantic rekindling as if it were owed to them.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 12/1/2012, 10:16 pm

sheny wrote:...
I want Kurt and Brody to become good friends. They have a lot in common. But I won't hope too much. It probably won't happen. Blaine is the only one allowed to have straight male friends, also known as bros.

That pisses me off so much! I really want to see Kurt having straight male friends. Why Blaine is the only one allowed to have one? Probably because they love to be clear that Blaine is the "male" side, whereas Kurt is the "female" one. C'mon! both are boys!

fantastica wrote:it looks like they are giving klainers a silverlining that the couple are on the way to reconciliation. i am sure rm loves to play this kind of game to manipulate fans' emotions.

That's Ryan favorite game: manipulation.

I know Klainers felt emotional when Kurt said "I love you" to Blaine, but for me it was more like a friendly "I love you" that something else. Because Kurt himself said that Blaine is still one of his friends. You know, in spanish this would be more clear for me,because both words "Te amo" and "Te quiero" means I LOVE YOU, but the second one is less stronger. So Kurt would had said "Te quiero".

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ireth on 12/1/2012, 10:25 pm

arina wrote:I am not shipping it or anything but I also thought Brody had more chemistry with Kurt than Rachel (and the sad thing is I think Kurt has better chemistry with almost every guy than his ex boyfriend). I am not big fan of Brody, he is there just to say nice things about Rachel most of the time, but it really was nice to see some guy treating Kurt totally normal (and from the start) and not like the guys in McKinley...
And Kurt definitely made Brochel scenes more fun :-)

fantastica wrote:brody attends NYADA which means he is literally swimming in a sea of gay guys. didn't he say in episode 1 that he had to declare himself straight or something to rachel? anyway, i am sure he has no trouble hanging out w/ gays.

I really like Brody as Kurt's friend. They are just friends, there's no big declaration about you're my gay friend/gay bro which always tends to happen at McKinley. But I have to admit, I don't like Brody outside of his relationship with Kurt, he seems kind of sleazy to me.
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 12/1/2012, 11:25 pm

I did like Darren's acting (which has been a long long time) he kept it simple and honest, it was not overdramtic or over emotive.

I still think his love is comedy not drama.

And I hope they do build up the friendship with Kurt and Brody. I am hoping Chris is suggesting this.

I like he is getting a love interest, but I want a male friend even more.

I just want a scene were they are sitting on the couch watching television, with face masks on, eating popcorn. I can't think of what they would talk about at the moment. Maybe it could be about the actors and actresses, who they thought were hot or something.

Now this would be a positive platonic relationship to show on this show, that an effeminate guy can be friends with a straight male, plus it could be lovely and comical as well. I just would like to see Rachel walk in and see them, it would be funny.
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  fantastica on 12/1/2012, 11:46 pm

i rewatched the kiki scene like 10 times and I can't see kurt grabbing brody's hands or vice versa. it doesn't mean any one way or the other though. they all know each other and are friendly. no need to develop friendship w/ everybody you meet. Smile i am surprised that chase wasn't in teh party though. oh well, no mention that chase was an "orphan" anyway. he was probably at home dining w/ his family. maybe he was even married. i am thinking too much. just made a great dinner and the cholestrol is clouding my brain....

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Adamina on 12/2/2012, 12:10 am

ColferInspired wrote:

I just want a scene were they are sitting on the couch watching television, with face masks on, eating popcorn. I can't think of what they would talk about at the moment. Maybe it could be about the actors and actresses, who they thought were hot or something.

Now this would be a positive platonic relationship to show on this show, that an effeminate guy can be friends with a straight male, plus it could be lovely and comical as well. I just would like to see Rachel walk in and see them, it would be funny.

You should write for Glee, that scene would be priceless Razz
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Jellyrolls on 12/2/2012, 12:27 am

Are you all becoming desensitized to Darren's acting? I am going to put this in spoiler tags because it is probably too snarky for this thread. Read at your own risk.

Spoiler:
I thought he was his usual over emotive mediocre self in the scene. The eyebrows were going. The attempt to look dreamy or something when Kurt said they could go skating was one of the most forced expressions I've seen from him. The weird little laugh thing he did was an attempt to put emotion in his voice was one of the strangest notices I have ever heard from him, and his typical emotional voice sounds like a whiny tired three year old to me. I just don't find his attempts at emotional acting to be believable--he just doesn't sell it to me.

It wasn't his worst acting on the show, but it wasn't great. I think that we have our kurtsie blinders on and we have been waiting for the moment for Kurt to confront Blaine. Chris was really great in the scene. He showed Kurt's strength and control in the situation with expressions, body language, and some well placed pauses. Darren just can't hold his own in an emotional scene opposite Chris. They really need to keep Darren's emotional and dramatic scenes opposite actors who are closer to his talent level.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Jellyrolls on 12/2/2012, 12:30 am

fantastica wrote:i rewatched the kiki scene like 10 times and I can't see kurt grabbing brody's hands or vice versa. it doesn't mean any one way or the other though. they all know each other and are friendly. no need to develop friendship w/ everybody you meet. Smile i am surprised that chase wasn't in teh party though. oh well, no mention that chase was an "orphan" anyway. he was probably at home dining w/ his family. maybe he was even married. i am thinking too much. just made a great dinner and the cholestrol is clouding my brain....

Kurt grabs his hand right before Brody asks what a Kiki is

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  tanita_mors on 12/2/2012, 6:33 am

if found the acting serviceable, until the end, when he went a bit to over-dramatic with the crying - it looked ultra forced compered to chris's style. man, blaine is such a whiny, needy guy. i can totally see why he was in the dalton fight club and why he is such a good boxer./NOT

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  indiaskye on 12/2/2012, 10:51 am

ColferGirl wrote:^ I'm really glad you joined the CCFF Vanessa. I love reading your posts. neutre I agree with everything you said, especially how amazingly talented Chris is, conveying so many complex emotions in that one phone call. It's like he was trying to make up for the episodes where Kurt's POV on the breakup was completely ignored, and tried to put as many of the emotions Kurt was feeling as he could into that one scene. It expressed Kurt's hurt and agony over the situation better than anything else so far (in fact, though Kurt said he was mad at Blaine in the dialogue, because of Chris's acting I mainly saw and felt his hurt and grief and yearning...).

Wow - thanks! I always feel like I'm in this small camp in the middle right now - not ready to forgive Blaine yet and not wanting to see him and Kurt back together anytime soon, but also not opposed to an eventual Klaine reunion if it is done right.

As for Chris's acting - I just really cannot think of another young actor who is as talented as him right now, and that surely can't be only bias speaking ... fanny2 He can convey more emotion and inner conflict in 2 seconds than most actors in a full movie!


[quote="CloveGlee"]

Also... here's what I saw in those "I love you's."

Blaine: I love you so much! (IloveyouIloveyou oh, boy, maybe we are getting back together and I have hope again I love you maybe if I say it enough times he will love me back I hope I hope I hope...)

Kurt: (OK, I just made this grand gesture and invited him to go ice skating and he's got part of my soul in his pocket and he just said he loved me. If I don't say it back, every bit of healing that just happened here is going to get thrown away and it's all going to get ripped right back open again. And it... uh... may be true. ) I love you.

I agree that Blaine's "I love you" seemed to hold a lot of hope that maybe - just maybe - there was a chance of them getting back together, while Kurt's "I love you" was more hesitant and subdued. I don't doubt that he meant it - of course he still loves Blaine, you can't just turn that off like a light switch - but from him it sounded more like he'd just realized that while it is true it could be that maybe in this case love won't be enough .... at least for now. I don't know if I'm saying this right - it makes sense in my head so I hope you understand what I mean ... Rolling Eyes


Jellyrolls wrote:Are you all becoming desensitized to Darren's acting? I am going to put this in spoiler tags because it is probably too snarky for this thread. Read at your own risk.

I don't think it's becoming desensitized - at least not in my case, since I've always liked Darren. I do think he is a good actor - especially in emotional scenes like this one - though he is not on the same level as Chris, of course. But then again - who is, really? Chris is kind of in a league of his own right now ... Smile

However, I have no problem with anyone not liking Darren or his acting (especially here on this forum), and I wouldn't have written this much about Blaine/Darren in any other thread than an episode discussion thread anyway ... fanny2
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 12/2/2012, 12:07 pm

indiaskye wrote:...

I don't think it's becoming desensitized - at least not in my case, since I've always liked Darren. I do think he is a good actor - especially in emotional scenes like this one - though he is not on the same level as Chris, of course. But then again - who is, really? Chris is kind of in a league of his own right now ... Smile

However, I have no problem with anyone not liking Darren or his acting (especially here on this forum), and I wouldn't have written this much about Blaine/Darren in any other thread than an episode discussion thread anyway ... fanny2

I like how you think, because though you like Darren, still you're someone who's quite objective when's about his scenes, and personally is something that I appreciate from a fan, for a fan of any actor.

Personally, I think his strenght is comedy and he's good at it, and though he tends to be overdramatic, this time he wasn't that much. It worked well. But comparisons are always gonna be there, because he's acting next to Chris, and all of us we know how good he's delievering emotions in a scene.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 12/2/2012, 12:10 pm

Finally got my full thoughts about the episode in order. Warning - am not quite so rosy about Hummelberry as I was on first viewing (which will be clarified):

I’m not going to say much about the McKinley side of the storyline, just because I find it so dull at this stage. The impact of having the graduates show up to help mentor for Sectionals would have had a lot more impact if they hadn’t already brought back Mike and Mercedes to help with the musical and Puck flying home to council his baby brother for 30 seconds. It was nice, but to me only reinforces the fact that the new cast isn’t fit to polish the shoes of the originals. Even with their contrived dramas, the originals are infinitely more interesting than Bulimic Marley, Evil Kitty, Self-Sacrificing Ryder and Bland Jacob. The only exception is my glorious Unique, who’s pushing to remain true to herself however she can.

One thing that did become clear as that despite the Kumbaya hugs in Goodbye, seperation brought out the real colors dividing many of the graduates. For most of the show, Santana and Quinn deviated between being close friends and the worst kinds of rivals that ripped one another to shreds. That became very apparent during their argument and slap fight after the Unholy Trinity performance. Quinn's resentments towards Puck and what getting involved with him meant for her (as if her getting pregnant was only his fault and responsibility) and her refusal to acknowledge that he had grown and matured since emerged with the least provocation. And Quinn has not taken any opportunities to hang out with Rachel in NYC. The thing that united all of them really isn't there any longer and the reality of most high school aquaintences - that after graduation, unless they are particularly close friends - they drift apart and might not see one another until the 10 year reunion.

Didn’t absolutely love the Warblers, but their performances were infinitely better than that piece of crap that ND trotted out that wasn’t even singing. And yeah... feel really sad for Tina that after three years of being sidelined and told to wait her turn, she finally gets a competition lead and it’s this (and likely given to her only because she’s now the only Asian in ND and therefore should be the one singing a song in Korean). Between ND’s awful performance and Bulimic Marley passing out on stage, I’m not sure how this is going to play out because by any rights, ND deserved to have their competitive careers for the year end right there.

My patience with Rachel is wearing thin on several fronts. One minute she’s swearing off men and claiming full solidarity with Kurt (as now they are both single), but the moment Brody worms his way back into her good graces, her insistence that she doesn’t need an SO falls by the wayside and Kurt is again reduced to being her sidekick and third wheel and she and Brody engage in foreplay over the turkey (and I agree with Kurt… I wouldn’t eat it either). She can be the worst kind of fair weather friend. When she’s miserable she’s more than happy to demand attention and link up with those with similar woes for support (though it’s never truly mutual IMO). But when things are more in her favor? Then she’s back to being all about her and the needs of others fall completely off her radar. We’ve seen this many, many times before and I’ve given up waiting for her to grow out of this innate selfishness. She will never support Kurt just because Kurt needs support. Especially if it might mean her having to give up anything, no matter how inconsequential. It’s just another reminder that in the end, Rachel is out for herself and herself alone. Her wants, needs and desires will always come first.

And how she accepted Brody’s rationalizations really makes me despair that we’re ever going to see her mature into an independent, confident woman. To a certain degree, Brody was right. They hadn’t made the commitment or reached a mutual understanding regarding their relationship and he certainly was free to have sex with someone else. But Cassandra? The woman that he knows Rachel has so many issues with? That showed monumental insensitivity towards someone that he was at least friends with, let alone someone that he saw as a prospective sexual partner. And the way he spoke to her was so condescending; as if he were speaking to a small child who hadn’t been in relationships before. No, it’s not the “adult” way to hand things. It’s thoughtless to sleep with someone that even a friend would find used as a weapon against them. It echoed what happened with Finn slept with Santana and then had Santana use it to upset Rachel. I’ll give Rachel come credit that she didn’t become completely unglued, but she allowed him to charm his way back into her good graces awfully fast because heaven forbid Rachel not have a man in her life for five minutes. And as much as she played with the idea of Kurt being her ultimate SO, she’ll pass him over for a straight man who compliments her each and every time.

Now for Kurt… We’ve needed to see his side of the break up with Blaine examined and given that he’s had several weeks to process and try to deal with what happened, the end result is entirely believable. He’s still so deeply hurt because this betrayal hit him full force in so many of his insecurities about his relationship. He’d always felt like the smaller, less desirable part of Klaine and that one day Blaine would leave him for someone better suited, more handsome, more interesting. And in the end, he lost Blaine to someone who was merely more convenient. So the hurt and anger were still bubbling away and were festering just under the surface, slowly poisoning him.

Isabelle, as always, proves herself to be the single best thing that happened to Kurt since his arrival in NY. She can speak from her own life experiences in the way that a peer of Kurt’s cannot, with the wisdom of decades of life experience, and help guide him to make the choices that are best for Kurt. I appreciated the fact that she didn’t try to tell Kurt what to do about Blaine directly – to take him back of not to take him back. But to let go of the anger, and to speak honestly so that Kurt can move on and make the decisions that he needed to. Isabelle doesn’t know Blaine the way anyone else in Kurt’s life does, and she’s got no investment in trying to balance her concerns between Kurt and Blaine. She was there for Kurt and Kurt alone and he so desperately needed someone to finally put him first (besides Burt).

The phone call was perfect and shows really that Kurt is reaching a crossroads when it comes to Blaine. He doesn’t know exactly how he wants to proceed just yet because he’s still healing from so many wounds of which Blaine’s betrayal was only the most recent. The NYADA rejection and the losses during his senior year are still having a very profound effect on him (and are at the heart of why he’s sung so little this season – especially in refusing the chance to perform in a venue like Call Backs). He needs time to figure out where he goes from here, what path he has to take. But accepting Blaine’s apology as genuine is the first step towards healing himself. He’s not able to put the cheating in the rear view mirror just yet – healing from that betrayal is still a work in progress for Kurt. But he has far too much invested in his relationship with Blaine, both as friends and lovers, to just cut Blaine off completely at this point. Right now, they’re lives are in very different places. They very likely will be together again, but for now at least? I think some time apart might do both of them enormous good. Kurt does deserve a chance to explore more of the world before tying himself permanently to his first boyfriend.

The Kiki was a moment of sheer insanity that I loved every minute of and just reinforced how Kurt is fitting in with the NY world in a way that is genuine, while Rachel is still struggling. I wasn’t thrilled with how the Turkey Lurkey bit in the mashup worked when I first heard it because unlike most of the other mashups which had common themes and tones so that they would fit together more or less seamlessly, Turkey Lurkey was just dumped in the middle of it. After seeing the visual of the scene on the show, I now believe that it was intentional to imply that Rachel was out of step with the rest of the party. She looks the part (with her ombre hair, tight clothes and heavy makeup), but her choice of just throwing that piece into the number (and the WTF? expressions on the other partygoers, even though they eventually joined in following Kurt’s lead) showed that she is not on the same page as the rest of them. Thankfully Isabelle, the goddess of the kiki, was able to wrest control back and return the party from Rachel’s ramblings about eating turkey to the joyous celebrations of all things NY, queer and fabulous.

And the way that Isabelle was there for Kurt after his phone call to Blaine… single best moment of the episode.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  CloveGlee on 12/2/2012, 12:42 pm

I think Rachel loves Kurt pretty fiercely. Isabelle's advice to Kurt was better than Rachel's because Rachel is 19 and Isabelle is in her late 40s. I also do not think that flirting with Brody in the loft makes her a bad friend. I was actually more concerned with the fact that she made him stay in New York for Thanksgiving so that she would not have to deal with Finn. Of course, given how he felt when he left Lima last time, she may have genuinely thought he felt the same way she did about it. Folks have a way of projecting their own emotional states onto those who have similar problems. Rachel thinks Finn=Blaine in terms of how they are affecting them right now. She may not realize that she's gotten closure twice and Kurt does not have it.

As for Darren's acting in the phone call scene... I think he was FINE. No, he wasn't quite as skilled at Chris. The only person in the cast who really is is Jane. I've seen Darren do scenes in which I thought he stunk up the place, but this was not one of them. He had the easier task: love, shame, sorrow and hope. Chris got to tackle love, sorrow, anger, hurt, resentment, hope, longing, and confusion.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Divalicious on 12/2/2012, 1:03 pm

You know, that was my feeling as well, that Rachel doesn't quite fit. She has certain expectations and fully expects life to conform to those desires, where Kurt adapts. I also wondered if having Kurt not get into NYADA wasn't just bad writing, but to show the contrast of Rachel's struggle and Kurt just fitting in when he does arrive. That can actually be a story point later, and have Rachel jealous of Kurt's success. Until the writers reinforce that Rachel is special and different and she shouldn't change anything about herself, because the world SHOULD adapt to Rachel. But it would be interesting if they did write more truly and had Rachel realize she won't always be the center of things and that is okay. Rachel sometimes acts as if there can only be one star and she has to make sure it is her, and it does make her more selfish. It would be a huge maturing of her character to be able to let go of that idea and be more supportive of others and have these actions lead to her ultimate success.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 12/2/2012, 1:26 pm

I'm actually really surprised that absolutely nothing more was made about Rachel's audtion for The Glass Menagerie except for an offhand comment that she didn't get the part. This was her first NYC professional audition and we not only weren't shown anything of the audition (which is the whole reason she had to be in NYC over any other city with strong theatrical programs), but the only resolution we get afterwards is that she didn't get the part. How did her audition actually go? Did she get a callback or was she rejected in the first round? How did she handle being rejected immediately after it happened (as this is a person who has a long, deep-rooted history of not handling rejection well at all). They made such a huge deal about this audition being grounds for her nasty confrontation with Cassandra last week, and her confidence about being ready for it and we get nothing in regards to any resolution.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferGirl on 12/2/2012, 2:08 pm

Ranwing wrote: The Kiki was a moment of sheer insanity that I loved every minute of and just reinforced how Kurt is fitting in with the NY world in a way that is genuine, while Rachel is still struggling. I wasn’t thrilled with how the Turkey Lurkey bit in the mashup worked when I first heard it because unlike most of the other mashups which had common themes and tones so that they would fit together more or less seamlessly, Turkey Lurkey was just dumped in the middle of it. After seeing the visual of the scene on the show, I now believe that it was intentional to imply that Rachel was out of step with the rest of the party. She looks the part (with her ombre hair, tight clothes and heavy makeup), but her choice of just throwing that piece into the number (and the WTF? expressions on the other partygoers, even though they eventually joined in following Kurt’s lead) showed that she is not on the same page as the rest of them. Thankfully Isabelle, the goddess of the kiki, was able to wrest control back and return the party from Rachel’s ramblings about eating turkey to the joyous celebrations of all things NY, queer and fabulous.

And the way that Isabelle was there for Kurt after his phone call to Blaine… single best moment of the episode.

Ranwing, I love love love love your posts. wub You and Divalicious (and Cloveglee) always have such thoughtful, indepth commentaries about the episodes, I love reading them because you both tend to notice things that I don't, or in ways deeper than I originally considered.

I did think of Rachel singing Turkey Lurkey as a way to get attention, especially considering her facial expression right before she sang it, but it never occurred to me that it also represented how she's out of step with the New York world. I wonder if the writers are doing all of this deliberately. My Rachel stan friend that I talk to at college also feels Rachel is trying to be a "different person" ever since she came to New York, with the clothes and the makeup and trying to "act" grownup, like with the Britney number that was more awkward than sexy. Maybe the writers will have Rachel realize how desperately she's trying to fit into NY and that it's not working, and she should be okay with being herself. She doesn't have to dress or act the part. She can just be her. Perhaps this realization will tie into how she and Finn inevitably reconcile at the end of the season. Rachel needs to learn to be independent but also to humble herself - I still remember her saying "no matter how successful or famous I become" to Finn during their break up scene, still placing herself higher than him. She said Finn treats her like a little girl, but in truth, she still treats him like he's "lesser" too. They need to be equals, and Rachel can't be that until she herself learns that the way she's currently acting isn't being an independent, strong woman - it's letting everything around you dictate who you are, whether it's people like Brody or Cassandra or what she perceives to be New York and the New Yorker lifestyle.

Or maybe the writers find Rachel's transformation genuine and this really is how Rachel Berry is now meant to be and wants to be. Never can tell for sure with Glee. I'm sure many Rachel fans love her as she is now and view things completely differently...I know this potential perspective of her NY-self doesn't change my own love for her or Hummelberry. hapitgh

Somewhat Off Topic, but - has anyone seen Delight recently? I haven't seen her post for a while.... :(

Edit - nevermind, found her last post on her profile which explains her absence. ooppss


Last edited by ColferGirl on 12/2/2012, 2:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 12/2/2012, 2:37 pm

Or maybe the writers find Rachel's transformation genuine and this really is how Rachel Berry is now meant to be and wants to be.

My problem with this is that Rachel herself said during the scene with Kurt in front to the NY Publc Library (and I love how as a native NYCer that I immediately recognize where all the outside NY locations are filmed) is that she (and Kurt) are on the verge of being the "best versions" of who they should be. Kurt's growth and transformation may be genuine (because Kurt is incapable of being anything other than genuine), but for Rachel? It's all a facade. A facade that she switches on and off depending on what role she is being called upon to play at a given moment and the response that she wants to solicit. That scene in front of the library was her best Sophisticated Independant Girl About Town with her BFF. But then when we saw her in the dance study with Brody, she switches to the Injured Ingenue (quoting a friend of mine here), but didn't get the response that she wanted from Brody. So then during dinner prep, we see the shift to Coy Seductee, happy to bask in Brody's attention and flirt. Once the loft was invaded by Isabelle and her downtown friends, (I'll quote my friend again) Rachel becomes the Straight Princess with Two Gay Fathers, acting as if she so well understands all these gay fashionistas, drag queens and fabulous people (and then completely blows it with inserting Turkey Lurkey into the kiki).

But this is something that I've seen in Rachel since The Makeover. Rachel's change isn't due to any real changes in herself and explorations of who she really is as a person, but more in getting a better response from the other students at NYADA and trying to fit it. Rachel is the girl who sees the world as a play staged around her, so is it any wonder that she constantly recasts herself into whatever role that's needed for a given scene. It's so rare that we actually see the Real Rachel (or at least, what there is that's real within Rachel).
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 12/2/2012, 2:53 pm

@Ranwing and Divalicious, when I saw Let's have a Kiki... on youtube and I read the comments, several people said "Oh is so Rachel Berry to interrupt in the middle of the song with a Broadway song" and it is because she's someone who needs attention, especially in a room with full of people, that something you will never change of her. And I know Hummelberry support to each other and their friendship has grown up a lot, but I'm wondering if there not gonna be some jelousy from Rachel if Kurt fits in NYADA and things work well for him. Can I be honest? Though both have an emotional personality, I think is easier to deal with Kurt than Rachel.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Divalicious on 12/2/2012, 4:05 pm

Kurt is totally easier to deal with, because he doesn't need to be the center of attention. In fact, with some of the things that happened in the past, I can see him wanting to avoid the spotlight unless he is on stage. He is also a very strong, independent (emotionally) person. Rachel has had very protective fathers, and then always a boyfriend to prop her up. Kurt has had a life time of people trying to tear him down, so has like steel girders inside, he requires no prop. He is human, so values support, especially his fathers, but he does not require it. You don't need to constantly compliment him, or tell him he is fantastic, because he knows his own worth, well, part of it. I think Kurt is exploring just how amazing he can be, and knows he has talent, but it will be wonderful if NYADA lets him fully realize just how much he offers.

We already know he is a team player, and even when he is not rewarded (WSS anyone?) he works hard to make sure people get to feel successful. In the adult world, that is valued. Who doesn't want to work with someone who will have your back? At my workplace I can most definitely tell the difference when I have a strong team player than when I have just a strong nurse working on the floor. Strong nurse gets her/him self done with things in a timely manner, patients are taken care of and they go home. A team player makes sure everyone gets to go home on time, they share the work, and make it easier, just with little things.

That is what I am hoping to see if Kurt gets into NYADA. People like being partnered up with Kurt, because he isn't just there to make himself look good, he wants everyone to be successful. Rachel is still in this protected princess sort of world, and doesn't realize how much nicer life can be when it isn't all about you. I don't know if the writers will ever show that, because I think the majority of the audience are younger, and probably most don't have anything other than summer jobs. They will continue to have Rachel be successful and protected, and younger people accept that, maybe because that is what they hope to find when they get out there. Ain't so, sorry babies. The world is tough. Kurt has dealt with tough, Rachel hasn't. Their journey's should look different, IMO.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 12/2/2012, 9:28 pm

Jellyrolls wrote:Are you all becoming desensitized to Darren's acting? I am going to put this in spoiler tags because it is probably too snarky for this thread. Read at your own risk.

Spoiler:
I thought he was his usual over emotive mediocre self in the scene. The eyebrows were going. The attempt to look dreamy or something when Kurt said they could go skating was one of the most forced expressions I've seen from him. The weird little laugh thing he did was an attempt to put emotion in his voice was one of the strangest notices I have ever heard from him, and his typical emotional voice sounds like a whiny tired three year old to me. I just don't find his attempts at emotional acting to be believable--he just doesn't sell it to me.

It wasn't his worst acting on the show, but it wasn't great. I think that we have our kurtsie blinders on and we have been waiting for the moment for Kurt to confront Blaine. Chris was really great in the scene. He showed Kurt's strength and control in the situation with expressions, body language, and some well placed pauses. Darren just can't hold his own in an emotional scene opposite Chris. They really need to keep Darren's emotional and dramatic scenes opposite actors who are closer to his talent level.

It was Chris's acting that made me not notice the bad parts in Darren's acting. I was distracted by Kurt/Chris.
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 12/2/2012, 9:32 pm

Adamina wrote:
ColferInspired wrote:

I just want a scene were they are sitting on the couch watching television, with face masks on, eating popcorn. I can't think of what they would talk about at the moment. Maybe it could be about the actors and actresses, who they thought were hot or something.

Now this would be a positive platonic relationship to show on this show, that an effeminate guy can be friends with a straight male, plus it could be lovely and comical as well. I just would like to see Rachel walk in and see them, it would be funny.

You should write for Glee, that scene would be priceless

A lot of the ones that write fanfiction could write for Glee. Writing fanfiction is not my thing, I prefer to write my own characters for my own stories.

I hope they stop wasting Brody, and Kurt needs a male friend.
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  fantastica on 12/2/2012, 9:36 pm

ooo, it would be scary for fans to write for glee - i mean, it all depends on whose fan - kurt fans yes. non-kurt fans who don't like kurt would definitely ruin the show for me (even though it's already ruined) and drive me up the wall.

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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  CloveGlee on 12/3/2012, 4:57 am


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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 12/3/2012, 5:04 am

Just watched the episode. I like it alot better than I thought. I would. My favorite scenes were the ones with Chris/Kurt. I think Chris Did his best acting durning the phone scene, and that is saying something because Chris is always a great actor.Darren did alot better than usual,but not nearly as good as Chris.I am glad Kurt has not forgiven Blaine 100% yet.I think Blaine should earn Kurt's trust 1st.

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Really enjoyed Old Dog New Tricks. The Best Glee episode in a long time.
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Re: 4x08 "Thanksgiving" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 12/3/2012, 7:40 am

Divalicious wrote:...

That is what I am hoping to see if Kurt gets into NYADA. People like being partnered up with Kurt, because he isn't just there to make himself look good, he wants everyone to be successful. Rachel is still in this protected princess sort of world, and doesn't realize how much nicer life can be when it isn't all about you. I don't know if the writers will ever show that, because I think the majority of the audience are younger, and probably most don't have anything other than summer jobs. They will continue to have Rachel be successful and protected, and younger people accept that, maybe because that is what they hope to find when they get out there. Ain't so, sorry babies. The world is tough. Kurt has dealt with tough, Rachel hasn't. Their journey's should look different, IMO.

It would be fantastic if they show that sort of interactions in NYADA, because it helps teenagers to realize that life after school is tougher that they think it is. Probably some of them have deal with difficulties in their life, but most of them come from protected families and after leaving school, probably they're going to move to a bigger city and meet new people. Is a whole new experience! Is something I had to face when I left school, and as Rachel I came from a protective family and sometimes I'm stubborn, so I won't deny is complicated to work in team, but you learn. In the case of Kurt and Rachel, it may believed by some people that being a Broadway star is a lonely career, but then I think what if you work in big productions? There's gonna be more people involved on it.

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