Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 3

[CloveGlee]

Well, at least now we understand why they have chosen not to allow the best male falsetto in the group sing BeeGees songs.

I think we can pretty much kiss the idea of him singing at Nationals goodbye, too. He will drive stories because he's the best actor, but they are never going to let Chris sing unless they absolutely have to, and we might as well accept it or we'll just be unhappy all the time.

[fantastica]

^ I agree. well, he may have a line or so in the nationals, but that's the most he will get. similarly we should expect blaine sing at least a solo in every episode. I don't even care anymore. I will just pretend that they hired Justin Bieber and he's gonna do nothing but singing constantly.

[Jellyrolls]

Not snarking and barking at the moment because I haven't read much on the board lately.

I just wanted to pop in here and say Welcome to all of our new members who have joined, and are posting here. I'm on vacation in France right now, and haven't had much time to be on the board, but it's great to see we have had some new members to our community, and the place is just hopping!

I look forward to getting to know our new members!

[ColferGirl]

I just wanted to say the reason I think Chris almost never sings is because he doesn't want a record deal. This season Naya got a huge boost in the amount of songs she sings and I've read that we should be hearing about an album from her this summer. Darren and Amber is also working on an album for summer. I think from a business point of view it makes sense in the long run because Glee is not only a tv show its connected to a record label that also needs to maximize its profits. For example if Chris were to sing Smooth Criminal and it did really well that would be the end of the road as far as profits go for the record label branch of Glee. But with Naya they get the money from the itunes sales and promote her as a future artist witch leads to potentially more money when she releases her album. So when she comes out with her album she already has a large audience that familiar/comfortable with her and its easier to get her single off the ground. I think the same principle goes for the other top singers. It still pisses me off though.

I've never thought of the song distribution in this way....doing so is just kinda more disheartening when you think about it. Glee should be a tv show, a story, a narrative before it's a machine for a record company to make money. But that may not be how RIB is approaching the show, sometimes it seems they're focusing on the latter instead of the former - maybe they are - and it's sad. Glee has so much potential, all these characters have great stories they could tell, and if this is true they're wasting it....

As for Nationals. I'm never gonna give up hope for Kurt having a solo or duet until I see the competition on my screen, and the truth is staring me in the face. It's too depressing to give up now. So I'll keep hoping for it.

[Porcelainbyfire]

^ see how they set the priorities - initially this season they said they would do more broadway, almost no tribute, no guest star, focus on the seniors, return to S1 glee, etc.

yes they tried to but then what happened - itune sales down; ratings are flat. so they changed their gears because after all, glee is a business. now what we have - top 10 pop galore; guest celebrity in almost every episode; tributes one after another; suicides and accidents to boost ratings and ridiculous plots to sell songs and albums. when glee first started they had a script they put a lot of thoughts to; now they put a lot of thoughts into what's the next shark to jump.

It will be interesting to see how cast members albums do over the summer and how that affects the shows priorities.Like if all the albums tank, will the song distribution start making sense again because they have nothing more to gain from giving certain people more songs. And how will the reception of Struck by Lightning affect how they treat Chris's character as far as songs go.

Disclaimer: I dont wish failure on any of the cast members

[tanita_mors]

^ I don't think any of us wish that, especially in music. They are all talented singers in their own right and I think all 4 of them will aim at different audiences musically. I would actually be very interested in Darren Criss album if he goes the alternative route. His acting aside, I like his voice on these type of songs a lot. As well as Kevin - I hope they avoid the boy band sound with him frankly. With Amber and Naya, great voices both of them, but RnB or club music has never been my sound.

[Glorfindel]

Spoiler:

It is saddening and frustrating, yes. I try to keep as Zen about it as possible, because I know it will drive me mad if I think about it too much. I've already had a big family dispute about this when I was sulking after the songs came out on FLF and was therefore irritated by every thing that went on in my household at the time. And Glee isn't worth that.
I wish I could stop caring completely.

My therapy is writing reviews (and I will write a SNF review too), although they usually mean more anger and misery for me when writing them. But afterwards I feel somewhat better.
As far as the policy on profanity here? I don't think anyone really cares about it that much. We all feel the same. I've typed my f*cks and *ssholes whenever I thought they were necessary.

I think this is at the heart of my anger, too.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

^ you may be right. I just watched the biol channel glee special and they talked about music sales, and it seems that its not just hte incidental result of the tv show, but is a branch of this franchise that ties into the show. therefore it makes perfect sense if it has quite some impact on who sings what.

they are not only giving certain cast members more songs, but these are hottest/top selling songs by its original artists. I speculate that they actually set some sort of quotas (as to how much to let certain people sing) to ensure certain business profit from the song sales.

True, and it's destroying Glee from within.

^ see how they set the priorities - initially this season they said they would do more broadway, almost no tribute, no guest star, focus on the seniors, return to S1 glee, etc.

yes they tried to but then what happened - itune sales down; ratings are flat. so they changed their gears because after all, glee is a business. now what we have - top 10 pop galore; guest celebrity in almost every episode; tributes one after another; suicides and accidents to boost ratings and ridiculous plots to sell songs and albums. when glee first started they had a script they put a lot of thoughts to; now they put a lot of thoughts into what's the next shark to jump.

It will be interesting to see how cast members albums do over the summer and how that affects the shows priorities.Like if all the albums tank, will the song distribution start making sense again because they have nothing more to gain from giving certain people more songs. And how will the reception of Struck by Lightning affect how they treat Chris's character as far as songs go.

Disclaimer: I dont wish failure on any of the cast members

I miss the Broadway songs on Glee. Now they only do it when absolutely necessary (the NYADA auditions). They have forgotten that Rachel saved Sectionals with DROMP.
If they have Kurt and Rachel sing a pop song for their audition instead of a Broadway song Glee has officialyy jumped the shark for me.


This summer will be interesting as for who will be RIB's favorites next year. And isn't it ridiculous that the stories and content of a tv series depends on how succesful and bankable its cast members are? I know a lot of tv series tend to put more popular cast members to the foreground, but I've never seen it used in such an excess as Glee. It's quite telling that this show now depends more on the fans' love for its cast members than on the storytelling of the actual show itself.

And I will give no disclaimer. I want this milking Glee record industry to tank completely, except for Amber's and Kevin's records, because they have fabulous voices. I wish no harm to Naya or Darren, but their voices are not good enough to carry a record: the only things that keeps their singing success afloat is favoritism, strategy and marketing, and I want their records to flop, not so much for them, but for the industry behind them. There, I've said it.

[arina]

I am actually the most interested in Kevin's and Naya's albums because they are my favorite voices on Glee... Although I am not sure if the style of their songs would be my cup of tea. I actually think that Naya has voice good enough to carry a record but I don't know anything about music...

But I wish them all to be succesful, I don't like to see people put their effort into something and then see it flop. Ultimately I am still fan of the whole (at least the original) cast...

[ColferInspired]

I don't know if I would buy any of these albums.

Darren's music isn't to my taste, and if he is going for a bit of folk, I won't be buying. I hate that sort of music. I have not liked what he has written in the past. I have found it extremely boring.

Naya, I might. Amber, yes I would, same as Kevin.

Amber and Kevin's voices always always make me want to listen to their songs again and again.

I used to feel that way about Darren's songs, the ones from Season 2, but Darren's voice just irritates me now, because it is overused. The show has spoilt my enjoyment of hearing him sing.

[Glorfindel]

Naya's voice is superb in a very restricted area of songs. If her album contains only such songs it will be okay, but nothing close to Amber and Kevin.

But honestly: I have some trouble with the way Naya has managed to put herself front and center in Glee, without doing the effort and without scruples, imo. Not unlike Darren.
And as I said: it's not so much these 2 actors themselves I want to see flop, but the industry and mechanisms behind them. IMO they are a big part of what made Glee season 3 so uneven.

[arina]

Amber is an exellent singer but I must say her singing doesn't do much for me most of the time, but it's probably just because I don't like the style of music she is primarily singing.

[Glorfindel]

^Amber doesn't move me emotional either. But she has an excellent voice and there is a market for her type of music.

Well, at least now we understand why they have chosen not to allow the best male falsetto in the group sing BeeGees songs.

I think we can pretty much kiss the idea of him singing at Nationals goodbye, too. He will drive stories because he's the best actor, but they are never going to let Chris sing unless they absolutely have to, and we might as well accept it or we'll just be unhappy all the time.

If the record industry behind Glee is responsible for a big part of the song distribution (and we know it is), and if they will only let Kurt sing when absolutely un-avoidable (like his NYADA audition), then it will be interesting to see how they will feature Kurt next season, singing wise.

Next year Kurt and Rachel both will be in NYADA, having auditions, singing Broadway songs. Now Rachel will get enough to sing, Broadway songs or not, because even though she does not have a record yet, she is still the big singing star of the show, and only she can sell the Broadway songs well on iTunes.
But what about Kurt? Will they have him only sway in the background? Tell but not show his progress in NYADA?
They will not be able to avoid giving him songs to sing, and Broadway songs at that. He will have to sing regularly if the Hummelberry narrative will be about NYADA. And unless they introduce a lot of new characters for NYADA to create a new show choir-esque venue for both of them to sing in group numbers, they cannot give Kurt a reasonable amount of little solos in group numbers to shine up/boost his song quota, as they are doing now in ND.

They have shot themselves in the foot when they decided to aim for a spin-off. I suspect that the spin-off was meant to be more Broadway centric, more for the theatre nerd Glee fans, who do appreciate Kurt's voice as well as Broadway tunes, and leave the original Glee to the more pop songs interested younger fans.
But then the ratings dropped and the big 3 had to be ankered to Glee itself, and with them the spin-off. Unless they do a 180 degree turn, Rachel and Kurt still will be in NYADA, singing their Broadway songs, and that will most definitely bring friction between storytelling and song distribution.

If Finn goes along to New York (and I think he will), they will be able to more easily neglect him in the number of songs than Kurt, because I don't think Finn will study music too. And if Santana goes to New York as well it will be interesting to see how they will justify giving her a lot of songs then, because we all know they will want to do that.
It is clear that iTunes sales and record deals will heavily influence the layout and storytelling of the split narrative.

And another matter:
If the spoilers are true and Blaine will wants to go to NYADA too in season 5, they will have to create a pop music department at NYADA too. There is no way Blaine can become a Broadway singer, vocal wise, and also because RIB would not want Blaine to sing mostly Broadway songs, since they won't sell well.
But of course: Santana will be singing in a nightclub after school in a pop band, with Finn as a drummer, allowing her to have her multiple songs and a satisfying number of pop songs. They could end every split narrative with a toast and chat in said nightclub, and there is your mandatory Santana song per episode.
And as soon as Blaine joins them in season 5 (because we all know he will have no trouble getting into NYADA, being as talented as he is) he will not only sing the male lead roles of every musical organized in NYADA while Kurt admires him from backstage, but he will also be the new sexy attraction in the night club band while flirting with every woman in da house.
And this would be funny, if we didn't know that it will probably happen, if Glee gets renewed for season 5.



(BTW: I'm double posting this here and on GF.)

[brisallie]

...

But honestly: I have some trouble with the way Naya has managed to put herself front and center in Glee, without doing the effort and without scruples, imo. Not unlike Darren.
...

What do you mean Marie? How Naya has manages her career?

You know about Darren, I know he released an indie album some years ago so this's mean he has been always interested in music, however as ColferInspired said, he's singing too much lately that personally I'm little bit tired of it, so I don't wanna listen his album.

Amber is an exellent singer but I must say her singing doesn't do much for me most of the time, but it's probably just because I don't like the style of music she is primarily singing.

I don't like her style either but unlike her acting, when she sings she expresses emotions that I can feel too

[M&M]

Naya's voice is superb in a very restricted area of songs. If her album contains only such songs it will be okay, but nothing close to Amber and Kevin.

But honestly: I have some trouble with the way Naya has managed to put herself front and center in Glee, without doing the effort and without scruples, imo. Not unlike Darren.
And as I said: it's not so much these 2 actors themselves I want to see flop, but the industry and mechanisms behind them. IMO they are a big part of what made Glee season 3 so uneven.

I really agree with this. Darren and Naya both wanted to play gay characters because they knew it would push them front and center. Darren was supposed to be on 3 episodes, then Teenage Dream blew up. He was always pushing for dating Kurt, but who wouldn't? The most high profile character on the then most high profile show, people were probably fighting over it. Max said at one point eary on that he thoguht Kurt and Karofsky could date.

Naya did the same thing by pushing for Santana to be gay. I am sure she supports the gay community, but her motives were more opportunistic than altruistic. I think what fully convinced me (although I had suspected before) was her reaction to IKAG. She was asked people not being happy about it at the GLAAD awards and said "Storylines are storylines. I had fun." No, just no.

[CloveGlee]

Every album that has been put out by a Glee alum that was not Glee music has failed so far. Mark and Matthew both went belly-up, because this Glee machine does not crank out quality original music. Unless some of these kids are amazing songwriters who have wonderful material waiting to be unleashed, they will suffer the same fate. It's like the kids on American Idol; ten of them a year put out an album after their season that sells 20,000 copies.

[brisallie]

@ CloveGlee , I thought Matt and Mark albums were recorded previously Glee and they took advantage of the success of the show and release them again.

@ M&M , now I understand how Naya and Darren has playing their cards and Naya's answer during GLAAD is not a good reply from someone who's supposed to be supported with minorities.

[Shinra17]

Spoiler:

Personally, I don't mind, I may not recognize some of them anyway . Just put an "*" (asterisk) somewhere in the word to show that it's not your ordinary way to express yourself and the choice of the word is there to express your anger.

I just wanted to say the reason I think Chris almost never sings is because he doesn't want a record deal. This season Naya got a huge boost in the amount of songs she sings and I've read that we should be hearing about an album from her this summer. Darren and Amber is also working on an album for summer. I think from a business point of view it makes sense in the long run because Glee is not only a tv show its connected to a record label that also needs to maximize its profits. For example if Chris were to sing Smooth Criminal and it did really well that would be the end of the road as far as profits go for the record label branch of Glee. But with Naya they get the money from the itunes sales and promote her as a future artist witch leads to potentially more money when she releases her album. So when she comes out with her album she already has a large audience that familiar/comfortable with her and its easier to get her single off the ground. I think the same principle goes for the other top singers. It still pisses me off though.

I have never seen any evidence of a relation between Fox/Glee production and a label record (I never search for it btw but I'm pretty sure there must be one, Fox is too big for not having a record label) but if there is one, of course they would use Glee to promote their upcoming artists. We are completely in the entertainment business with Fox.

Disclaimer: I dont wish failure on any of the cast members

In this thread, you can wish it if you want lol. Personally, I'm not interested by any of them, I guess I can listen to them casually but I won't follow their musical career. I'm not touched by technical performances (or robotic singing if I'm thinking about a certain someone) and on the emotional side, they all fade away compared to Chris.

[Emile]

Naya did the same thing by pushing for Santana to be gay. I am sure she supports the gay community, but her motives were more opportunistic than altruistic. I think what fully convinced me (although I had suspected before) was her reaction to IKAG. She was asked people not being happy about it at the GLAAD awards and said "Storylines are storylines. I had fun." No, just no.

@ M&M , now I understand how Naya and Darren has playing their cards and Naya's answer during GLAAD is not a good reply from someone who's supposed to be supported with minorities.

Yeah, well, she also said something about how she thought that it wasn't offensive at all as episode.
They sure know how the massive part of the fandom reacted.

I don't think it was one of the best answer she could give (and to me she could have stop at "storylines are storylines") and as an actor it's definitly part of her job to know how to answer to those stuff, but at the same time she sure couldn't insult her work (or her boyfriend's "ability" as a writer).

[fantastica]

Shinra : glee 's label is Columbia records. I believe only amber naya and Dc signed on with cr. Matt and mark were both of different labels and Kevin is prabably also w someone else.

Dc will probably sell the best because hes marketing team is ultra aggressive. Ive never heard the other 2. He will also need to do a decent amount of popular covers since his own songs aren't that impressive.

[Glorfindel]

I really agree with this. Darren and Naya both wanted to play gay characters because they knew it would push them front and center. Darren was supposed to be on 3 episodes, then Teenage Dream blew up. He was always pushing for dating Kurt, but who wouldn't? The most high profile character on the then most high profile show, people were probably fighting over it. Max said at one point eary on that he thoguht Kurt and Karofsky could date.

Naya did the same thing by pushing for Santana to be gay. I am sure she supports the gay community, but her motives were more opportunistic than altruistic. I think what fully convinced me (although I had suspected before) was her reaction to IKAG. She was asked people not being happy about it at the GLAAD awards and said "Storylines are storylines. I had fun." No, just no.

This.

Every album that has been put out by a Glee alum that was not Glee music has failed so far. Mark and Matthew both went belly-up, because this Glee machine does not crank out quality original music. Unless some of these kids are amazing songwriters who have wonderful material waiting to be unleashed, they will suffer the same fate. It's like the kids on American Idol; ten of them a year put out an album after their season that sells 20,000 copies.

Yes, but both Mark and Matt had different record companies. Fox was not promoting their albums. Although Matt was allowed to sing an original album song on the show, they didn't let Matt go on tour with the ND kids, even if he had only sung real Glee songs in the 3D concert that would have given him some more exposure as a singer: but he had to arrange his own venues and concerts and it failed.
There is a very convincing rumor (confirmed by several sources) that Mark even got punished for his rebellious record deal, and therefore was suspended from 2 episodes in season 2 (when Puck was in juvy).
But as I said: these are rumors and speculated conclusions, not necessarily facts.

Kevin has a different record label also.

Fox will however promote the albums of Naya, Amber and Darren. They will promote them left and right, associate them directly to Glee, and sell them as albums of Glee stars. They would even go so far as let them sing one or two of their record songs on the show. It will help them, but as you said: those Idols kids hardly ever succeed, so it's probable that these records will tank too.

And there's the issue of live concerts. Both Amber and Darren are singing left and right to promote their careers as singers. Naya hasn't. She never sings in award shows and such. She is also known for not showing up on red carpets and charity events she initially signed up for. If she doesn't get herself out there, as a singer, her album will not be succesful.

I wonder if Darren can deliver live, he is often flat, out of breath and off key when performing live, even forgetting his lyrics and being a bit drunk (!). That is all nice and good for his Starkids audience, but on Broadway he could not hide his weaker voice every night, and if he wants to promote this album he will have to bring more professionalism and live quality to the table. Like he did during the 3D tour: he was fairly even and steady then, probably because those kids were constantly drilled and catered, having other people making all the travel/eat/perform/sleep decissions to ensure they kept up the same quality during that gruesome concert schedule.

Amber always slays live: I have no worries about her future. She may not become a big star, but she will be able to make her living as a singer.

[valkeakuulas]

Next year Kurt and Rachel both will be in NYADA, having auditions, singing Broadway songs. Now Rachel will get enough to sing, Broadway songs or not, because even though she does not have a record yet, she is still the big singing star of the show, and only she can sell the Broadway songs well on iTunes.
But what about Kurt? Will they have him only sway in the background? Tell but not show his progress in NYADA?
They will not be able to avoid giving him songs to sing, and Broadway songs at that. He will have to sing regularly if the Hummelberry narrative will be about NYADA. And unless they introduce a lot of new characters for NYADA to create a new show choir-esque venue for both of them to sing in group numbers, they cannot give Kurt a reasonable amount of little solos in group numbers to shine up/boost his song quota, as they are doing now in ND.

They have shot themselves in the foot when they decided to aim for a spin-off. I suspect that the spin-off was meant to be more Broadway centric, more for the theatre nerd Glee fans, who do appreciate Kurt's voice as well as Broadway tunes, and leave the original Glee to the more pop songs interested younger fans.
But then the ratings dropped and the big 3 had to be ankered to Glee itself, and with them the spin-off. Unless they do a 180 degree turn, Rachel and Kurt still will be in NYADA, singing their Broadway songs, and that will most definitely bring friction between storytelling and song distribution.

If Finn goes along to New York (and I think he will), they will be able to more easily neglect him in the number of songs than Kurt, because I don't think Finn will study music too. And if Santana goes to New York as well it will be interesting to see how they will justify giving her a lot of songs then, because we all know they will want to do that.
It is clear that iTunes sales and record deals will heavily influence the layout and storytelling of the split narrative.

Somehow this revolutionary idea that has been thrown around by the cast and producers makes me think of a drastic difference between drama and musical comedy. I keep thinking that statement Chris made in which he said that he is not a singer, has Lea said ever publicly which scenes she preferres: singing or acting part of Glee?

Horrified as I am by the idea I'm thinking that we are going to maybe lose Rachel and Kurt singing altogether in season 4. Already missing the Hummelberry, but I can't see that in the current bosses of Glee would allow as much of Broadway that the NYADA storyline would require, 50/50 or even 25/75. Of course there are karaoke clubs in New York, maybe we get Rachel and Kurt singing the chart songs in a club that they snuck in. (Oh my my, my mind is going wild, should I star writing fanfiction? )

[fantastica]

^ they will just mention that Kurt is doing a musical, like he "brought the house down " in wss., won cheerios national title and Pip Pip hooray. I suspect he will sing less next yr because they will bring more new people who r singers more than actors.

[Delight]

I'm not very into songs and music in general, so it's hard for me to comment about whose album (Darren, Naya or Amber) would likely sell better in the future. I'm sure they are all talented in their own right and Darren probably might do a bit better, given his fanbase and his passion in music and songwriting.

But I find the concept of Glee becoming a mere springboard to boost the future album sales of its singers a tad ridiculous. Oh, I'm hardly surprised if this is truly what is happening now (given the uneven song distribution this season), and it annoys me big time. Maybe Glee has always been a TV show with plots written around songs instead of the other way round, and it just never have been so blatantly obvious until now. However, I find that TPTB are shooting themselves in the foot with this strategy, because overexposure of these singers generates a lot of resentment in the fandom, and it could result in many people not wanting to buy the album of a particular singer because of how many solos they've been singing on the show (thereby depriving another singer/actor of the opportunity to sing). I find that with the recent song choices they've given to Darren/Blaine, they're clearly not doing him any favours-- 'Fighter' showed that he can't bring the grit and the edge, the Bee Gees song showed that his falsetto is weak. They're destroying these characters on the show and seem to be infuriatingly oblivious that they're doing so.

To me, song sales don't necessarily reflect how popular or good the singer is; because, as someone else on this thread had mentioned, the songs that sell well are the ones that are currently popular (The Trouble Tones Adele mash-up comes to mind). And it's no surprise that Glee is giving all the popular pop songs to the singers with the records deals. I just wish Glee would give more opportunities to Kurt to sing a popular song now and then, and thereby silence the 'Kurt songs don't sell well therefore he doesn't get to sing much' argument I keep on seeing popping up here and there.

As a Kurtsie, the fact that Chris is not doing a record deal is even more reason for Glee to showcase Kurt's singing more; because, damn it, the songs we would ever get to hear from Chris may very well be the ones he sings on Glee. Since those who have record deals would be churning out albums, why do we need to be subjected to more of their singing again and again on the show, even when the storylines don't warrant them? But Glee is first and foremost a business, so....

Reality sucks.

[valkeakuulas]

^ they will just mention that Kurt is doing a musical, like he "brought the house down " in wss., won cheerios national title and Pip Pip hooray. I suspect he will sing less next yr because they will bring more new people who r singers more than actors.

I'm still miffed about those cheerios performances that were never shown besides 4 Minutes, which was waaay better than the original, and Beautiful. And Pip Pip Hooray, I had totally forgotten that!

[fantastica]

-^ u r not the only one. The writters have also forgotten it.

Last yr I read that only Sony music who owned Columbia records did well, thanx to beyonce and glee. The rest of the industry tanked. So glee is huge cash cow for the music biz side of the franchisenand there no way it doesn't impact song selection and distribution on the show. That said, I don't think the show is mere spring board for music sales. If the show gets cancelled there wont be any music to sell. Both r important for the franchise. So the status quot will continue.

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