General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 1

[Jellyrolls]

Welcome to the Glee General discussion thread!

This thread is a catch all thread for Glee related discussions. Critical discussion is allowed on this thread, but if it gets excessive, the moderators may move a discussion to snark and bark or request that the conversation continue over on the snark and bark thread.

[Vir Cotto]

Hello, for my first post to the Snark and Bark, I'd like to rant a bit about what I've been reading on TWoP. (I hope that 's okay) The conversation in the Kurt Hummel thread has been about why Kurt doesn't get any competition solos; and the expected arguments of "Chris doesn't really want to sing" got brought up (repeatedly) by the Blarren stans, but then something unexpected happened. There are now several pages of comments about how Kurt/Chris isn't really talented enough and how Glee is making a mistake by not have him going into fashion design instead. First of all, stereotype much? Secondly, has exposure to the endless Blarren solos turned a significant portion of this fandom tone-deaf? Rose's Turn, AIWNSG, Greatest Star, not to mention the Beatles songs! These are not the performances of someone with no talent, who has no shot at making it on Broadway (that would be Something's Coming by you-know-who).

I blame RIB for refusing to give Kurt the same singing time that the other top tier characters get.

[Glorfindel]

Hello, for my first post to the Snark and Bark, I'd like to rant a bit about what I've been reading on TWoP. (I hope that 's okay) The conversation in the Kurt Hummel thread has been about why Kurt doesn't get any competition solos; and the expected arguments of "Chris doesn't really want to sing" got brought up (repeatedly) by the Blarren stans, but then something unexpected happened. There are now several pages of comments about how Kurt/Chris isn't really talented enough and how Glee is making a mistake by not have him going into fashion design instead. First of all, stereotype much? Secondly, has exposure to the endless Blarren solos turned a significant portion of this fandom tone-deaf? Rose's Turn, AIWNSG, Greatest Star, not to mention the Beatles songs! These are not the performances of someone with no talent, who has no shot at making it on Broadway (that would be Something's Coming by you-know-who).

I blame RIB for refusing to give Kurt the same singing time that the other top tier characters get.

I think I will pay the Mr. Cellophane thread over at TWoP a little visit, right after this post.

I blame RIB too. It is as I warned before: if they don't show that Kurt is worthy of being a NYADA finalist by giving him solos within ND or in other performing opportunities (the Cheerios, community theatre), and have people applaud him, the GA will not believe it. And now it seems his own fans stopped believing it.

It is also a combination of Kurt fans who really want him to go into fashion, and not performing arts.

But I'm really pissed at RIB for this. I've had too many battles over on GF already defending why Kurt deserves NYADA (with mostly Rachel fans who think NYADA being interested in Kurt somehow degrades Rachel's talents). I didn't think that would be necessary on TWoP as well.

RIB -> <- me

[Struck by Lightning]

They are wasting Matt Morrison's talent, and Grant Gustin's, and Chris', and Jenna's, and.....that's it, I think.

Lea's too IMO, because after giving her some good (singing) material with the WSS arc (Somewhere particularly showed off some great if out of place belting, A Boy Like That and One Hand, One Heart exhibited a pretty, if not incredibly strong, upper range) they're having her sing way too much pop now. I mean, she's versatile, she sounds good on some pop, but this is all just top 40, and it's not very interesting. Also I didn't like a lot of the Troubletones arc, but they could have at least taken advantage of the opportunity to have Amber sing One Night Only.

But ITA on those four; I'm still waiting for a complete Broadway solo for Jenna (and Grant, who they have no problem giving other solos too). Matt's sung, like, one movie musical solo, and he's supposedly playing one of the show's lead characters, and his character is supposed to have enough b-way talent for April to want him in her musical, instead he sang that badly written pop song from his off-Glee album on a Broadway stage to show Will's 'passion for performing' (okay, to be fair, I can only blame Matt himself for that).

And it really annoys me they haven't given Chris more Broadway songs at least this season; not only does he sing them well but, more than those other three, his Broadway songs have the potential to be really great performances, and amazing scenes. It's not all about the downloads, or at least, it shouldn't be. They supplement this TV show, not the other way around.

One thing I appreciate about Lindsay is whenever RIB have her on Glee at least they don't waste her voice. Two b-way solos in as many appearances and a duet on the best song on Cheno's holiday album...I want more of her upper range too though.

[Jellyrolls]

Hello, for my first post to the Snark and Bark, I'd like to rant a bit about what I've been reading on TWoP. (I hope that 's okay) The conversation in the Kurt Hummel thread has been about why Kurt doesn't get any competition solos; and the expected arguments of "Chris doesn't really want to sing" got brought up (repeatedly) by the Blarren stans, but then something unexpected happened. There are now several pages of comments about how Kurt/Chris isn't really talented enough and how Glee is making a mistake by not have him going into fashion design instead. First of all, stereotype much? Secondly, has exposure to the endless Blarren solos turned a significant portion of this fandom tone-deaf? Rose's Turn, AIWNSG, Greatest Star, not to mention the Beatles songs! These are not the performances of someone with no talent, who has no shot at making it on Broadway (that would be Something's Coming by you-know-who).

I blame RIB for refusing to give Kurt the same singing time that the other top tier characters get.

I think it is really a combination of things. A few things that come to mind for me:

1. As someone mentioned on the GF, Chris has sung the songs on his bucket list, he may not be pushing for songs as much anymore. He has said that he thinks of himself more as an actor than a singer so singing may not be that important for us.

2. Although we love Chris' voice here, there are a lot of people out there who just don't like his voice because it's not a "traditional male voice.

Spoiler:

3. I think that in part the audience hasn't taken to Chris' voice in part because of the songs he gets. Chris has proven that he can sing poppy stuff in his lower register (like the Beatles stuff and 4 Minutes), but some people are turned off by the Broadway stuff in his higer register. If Chris had been consistently singing more mainstream songs in his lower register since day one, I don't think people would be complaining as much about his voice. (And that being said, I do think that a lot of the reason why Darren became so popular is because most of his songs were recent mainstream top-40 songs by artists that the younger fans would know, where as up until Perfect, all of Chris' songs were either Broadway or songs by older artists that don't appeal to the younger generation).

That being said, I don't know how people can't see a performance like "Le Jazz Hot," "Rose's Turn," or "As If We Never Said Goodbye" and not think the kid has talent. Even if you don't like his voice, you can't deny that he puts more emotion into his solo performances than any other cast member (including Lea).

[Jellyrolls]

They are wasting Matt Morrison's talent, and Grant Gustin's, and Chris', and Jenna's, and.....that's it, I think.

Lea's too IMO, because after giving her some good (singing) material with the WSS arc (Somewhere particularly showed off some great if out of place belting, A Boy Like That and One Hand, One Heart exhibited a pretty, if not incredibly strong, upper range) they're having her sing way too much pop now. I mean, she's versatile, she sounds good on some pop, but this is all just top 40, and it's not very interesting. Also I didn't like a lot of the Troubletones arc, but they could have at least taken advantage of the opportunity to have Amber sing One Night Only.

But ITA on those four; I'm still waiting for a complete Broadway solo for Jenna (and Grant, who they have no problem giving other solos too). Matt's sung, like, one movie musical solo, and he's supposedly playing one of the show's lead characters, and his character is supposed to have enough b-way talent for April to want him in her musical, instead he sang that badly written pop song from his off-Glee album on a Broadway stage to show Will's 'passion for performing' (okay, to be fair, I can only blame Matt himself for that).

And it really annoys me they haven't given Chris more Broadway songs at least this season; not only does he sing them well but, more than those other three, his Broadway songs have the potential to be really great performances, and amazing scenes. It's not all about the downloads, or at least, it shouldn't be. They supplement this TV show, not the other way around.

One thing I appreciate about Lindsay is whenever RIB have her on Glee at least they don't waste her voice. Two b-way solos in as many appearances and a duet on the best song on Cheno's holiday album...I want more of her upper range too though.

You're right about Lea too. I have to say in some ways, the WSS was a big disappoint because her voice is so much more "Broadway" than Darren's. I really wish they would do more Broadway not just because I love it, but also because I love that Glee has the opportunity to expose Broadway music to people who may not be familiar with it because they don't have easy accessibility to quality theatre venues. There is a lot of amazing Broadway music out there.

I'm going to remain confident that they have a big Broadway number coming up for Chris for the NYADA audition. I have to hold out hope that we will be hearing Chris sing Broadway again

[Struck by Lightning]

You're right about Lea too. I have to say in some ways, the WSS was a big disappoint because her voice is so much more "Broadway" than Darren's. I really wish they would do more Broadway not just because I love it, but also because I love that Glee has the opportunity to expose Broadway music to people who may not be familiar with it because they don't have easy accessibility to quality theatre venues. There is a lot of amazing Broadway music out there.

Well of course that could have been fixed to some extent, if, say, they brought Groff back for that arc instead of just to support the new TGP VA lead. He and Lea are both best suited to contemporary Broadway of course but with them, Santana/Naya as Anita, Chris/Kurt in Mike/Harry's role, and America as a duet between Anita/Rosalia (Jenna's voice>Mark's, at least for West Side Story), they would at least have a decent WSS cast. Three of the four people they shoehorned into the musical were getting an overload of solos at the time anyways, so I don't see why they needed this too. And none of the four were good actors or great singers.

Agreed (althought the Karofsky woobification is a good 2nd, imo).

True, but for me I'd say that was worse/more out of place in S2.

[tanita_mors]

It all has to do with people's preconceptions of what a male voice is suppose to sound like now-days. If Chris sang male Broadway songs or even female the way Darren Criss does (not in the female register or tone, but in his low register all the time) we wouldn't be having this discussion. The thing that makes Chris and Kurt unique is his ability to be able to do both. Now, they may have over killed it with his falsetto and high register (everyone has a different trash hold for that sort of thing). Also, it's inevitable that he is compered with DC and he is what kids today are thought by mass media to be the right/masculine/ideal kind of voice for a pop star/musician/singer. Just because you don't appreciate a skill, doesn't mean that it isn't there. And anyone who says that Chris Colfer and by that extent Kurt can't sing is tone deaf. You may not like his voice or interpretation, but that doesn't mean the talent isn't there. It's just means you are shortsighted and narrow-minded for not recognizing it.

[Glorfindel]

[Coolbeans3131]

I blame RIB too. It is as I warned before: if they don't show that Kurt is worthy of being a NYADA finalist by giving him solos within ND or in other performing opportunities (the Cheerios, community theatre), and have people applaud him, the GA will not believe it. And now it seems his own fans stopped believing it.

I think another part of the problem is that Kurt doesn't complain about his lack of solos. He hasn't acted competitive about solos since Season 1. The way he's written, he seems to have no problem with it. I think it's why both Chris and the audience was surprised he even wanted to go to NYADA instead of a fashion school.

[Struck by Lightning]

I think another part of the problem is that Kurt doesn't complain about his lack of solos. He hasn't acted competitive about solos since Season 1. The way he's written, he seems to have no problem with it. I think it's why both Chris and the audience was surprised he even wanted to go to NYADA instead of a fashion school..

IDK, I'd say he has in Special Education, Funeral, I Am Unicorn, to name a few. But then of course you have episodes, mainly competition episodes, where he's fine with it out of the blue, because RIB doesn't feel like writing anything about it that week. It's just bad and discontinuous writing.

[Glorfindel]

IDK, I'd say he has in Special Education, Funeral, I Am Unicorn, to name a few. But then of course you have episodes, mainly competition episodes, where he's fine with it out of the blue, because RIB doesn't feel like writing anything about it that week. It's just bad and discontinuous writing.

It is ridiculous, yes. The writers really have no attention span and they are ruining what's left of this, once so promising, show.

I want Kurt to fight for solos again. He might not get them, but he should fight for them.
Somehow I'm still hoping for a storyline where it becomes clear that Will does not see Kurt for the excellent singer he is and Kurt calls him out on that. Like he did in 'Never Been Kissed'.
If they can portray Will as an aweful Spanish teacher, then they can destroy his character even more by making him an aweful gleeclub teacher as well.
O wait.....Santana said Will is an excellent gleeclub teacher. Well, since Will agreed with the Troubletones deal Santana would think that. I guess Will is a better gleeclub teacher to some than to others.

O, I'm still so pissed about the Troubletones deal.

[brisallie]

I think another part of the problem is that Kurt doesn't complain about his lack of solos. He hasn't acted competitive about solos since Season 1. The way he's written, he seems to have no problem with it. I think it's why both Chris and the audience was surprised he even wanted to go to NYADA instead of a fashion school.

I don't know if they're a purpose on it but Kurt has been too quiet for getting solos compared with season one or is because he's best friend with Rachel now, I'm sorry but one thing is friendship and another thing is singing and show your talent. About NYADA, previously I'd say that Kurt was going to study something related to fashion but then I thought maybe is just a hobby and he doesn't want to be a fashion designer all of his life; by other side this thing about NYADA is a way to put together Kurt and Rachel in the same place because they know that duo works well together.

[ColferGirl]

I just want Chris to sing more, so bad. I always get some hope whenever I hear he's in the studio, and then I just feel disheartened again when we get news of duets and solos for certain others (like Naya and Darren) over and over again, each and every episode, especially when we have no guarantee that Chris is getting more than a few lines in whatever song he's singing (though a few lines is better than nothing).

I'll be so upset if he only gets 2 solos this entire season.

Sorry...I know this isn't really adding to the discussion, but I just wanted somewhere I could feel free to be sad about it, so I figured snark and bark was best.

[Struck by Lightning]

- The fact that Darren, Naya and Amber have got recording contracts with Fox is influencing the song distribution on Glee, and I'm puking sick of it.

Interesting, I only knew about that w/ Naya and Amber because they've been talking about doing albums right now. But it explains a lot.

Kevin's been recording a some solo stuff too I think, but he hasn't really sung a ton this season, even in the second half, his contract might be with someone else. I know Matt's is.

- Hemo should stick to dancing from now on and taking nude pictures on her phone. No more singing in competitions.
- Mike deserves a pat on the head for his efforts to learn to sing, but he's gotten his share and should stick to dancing and swaying in the background too for a while. He's not that good a singer.

And I agree, these two are the worst singers IMO. They or the producers don't think they have to even try with the songs they sing, because the pretty dancing is so distracting or w/e.

And of course Mike gets a Broadway solo before Tina does SMH. The fact it was WSS was just to rub salt in the wound, she sounded really pretty on Tonight IMO.

[brisallie]

And I agree, these two are the worst singers IMO. They or the producers don't think they have to even try with the songs they sing, because the pretty dancing is so distracting or w/e. And of course Mike gets a Broadway solo before Tina does SMH.

Worst singers? I don't have problems with none of them but sorry they're dancers who believe they can sing but they use autotune, at least Hemo use it, I don't know about Harry.

That's so true. Mike is singing more than Tina. What the hell is RIB thinking? ... Are they brain still working? huh

PS: thanks for the indirect explanation about recording contracts, that explain a lot of things or sort of.

[Jellyrolls]

I think another part of the problem is that Kurt doesn't complain about his lack of solos. He hasn't acted competitive about solos since Season 1. The way he's written, he seems to have no problem with it. I think it's why both Chris and the audience was surprised he even wanted to go to NYADA instead of a fashion school.

I don't know if they're a purpose on it but Kurt has been too quiet for getting solos compared with season one or is because he's best friend with Rachel now, I'm sorry but one thing is friendship and another thing is singing and show your talent. About NYADA, previously I'd say that Kurt was going to study something related to fashion but then I thought maybe is just a hobby and he doesn't want to be a fashion designer all of his life; by other side this thing about NYADA is a way to put together Kurt and Rachel in the same place because they know that duo works well together.

Kurt is doomed! He's best friends with one of the lead vocalist, and sleeping with the other! He can't take solos from them!

[brisallie]

Kurt is doomed! He's best friends with one of the lead vocalist, and sleeping with the other! He can't take solos from them!

Besides we know how good boy is Kurt -still remember he was too polite with sebastian on MJ episode- but a good and fair competion is not bad for anyone lol and probably soon he will stop sleeping with someone which name starts with B.

By other side, if he's doomed he just need to be exorcised Damn! I forget he's atheist...silly me

[Jellyrolls]

Kurt is doomed! He's best friends with one of the lead vocalist, and sleeping with the other! He can't take solos from them!

Besides we know how good boy is Kurt -still remember he was too polite with sebastian on MJ episode- but a good and fair competion is not bad for anyone lol and probably soon he will stop sleeping with someone which name starts with B.

By other side, if he's doomed he just need to be exorcised Damn! I forget he's atheist...silly me

I'll tell you this now, RIB and thier writers are going to steal from my fanfic and make it turn out that Blaine has been pouring laced Kool Aid down Kurt's throat.

Klaine breaking up is going to continue to be my biggest wish for Glee until they are history.

[CloveGlee]

IDK, I'd say he has in Special Education, Funeral, I Am Unicorn, to name a few. But then of course you have episodes, mainly competition episodes, where he's fine with it out of the blue, because RIB doesn't feel like writing anything about it that week. It's just bad and discontinuous writing.

It is ridiculous, yes. The writers really have no attention span and they are ruining what's left of this, once so promising, show.

I want Kurt to fight for solos again. He might not get them, but he should fight for them.
Somehow I'm still hoping for a storyline where it becomes clear that Will does not see Kurt for the excellent singer he is and Kurt calls him out on that. Like he did in 'Never Been Kissed'.
If they can portray Will as an aweful Spanish teacher, then they can destroy his character even more by making him an aweful gleeclub teacher as well.
O wait.....Santana said Will is an excellent gleeclub teacher. Well, since Will agreed with the Troubletones deal Santana would think that. I guess Will is a better gleeclub teacher to some than to others.

O, I'm still so pissed about the Troubletones deal.

Until today, I did not know that Amber and Naya both had recording deals with Fox. It's all very, very clear now, and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with telling a story that makes any sense. Kurt does not get to sing because Chris is not primarily a recording artist making money for Fox.

Unless they listened to our twitter bomb, that is unlikely to change.

[ColferInspired]

I love Chris's voice.

They are just stans that know nothing.

I would prefer Chris to sing a Whitney song than Darren.

I would love to go on these websites and say please don't let Darren sing a Whitney song, but I really can't be bothered.

Let them think what they think. *shrug*.

[Jellyrolls]

Well, Lea tweeted yesterday that she was listening to Darren sing yesterday. I know she said they are filming two episodes this week. I wonder if he sang for the Whitney episode or the one before or after it.

It seems so weird to be talking about episodes that aren't going to air for more than a month. We had gotten used to talking about episodes that they were filming two weeks in advance.

[Glorfindel]

^As far as I can tell from spoilers on several websites Blaine is singing in all 4 of the new episodes they are shooting now.
BTW: so is Santana.

I really need a new mantra. I believe the song distribution is going to drive me mad someday.



I just found an interesting comparison between Glee and another Ryan show: Popular.
Now I've never seen it, so I don't know how much of the information is stretched, but it's an interesting read.

In Depth Popular to Glee
According to another tumble there is also a similarity between Beiste and another teacher in Popular, they did 'Vogue' as well and Jane Lynch was in Popular too (one episode).

If this tumbr-post is a bit accurate it's amazing that noone calls RM out on his lack of imagination.

[Jellyrolls]

I just found an interesting comparison between Glee and another Ryan show: Popular.
Now I've never seen it, so I don't know how much of the information is stretched, but it's an interesting read.

In Depth Popular to Glee
According to another tumble there is also a similarity between Beiste and another teacher in Popular, they did 'Vogue' as well and Jane Lynch was in Popular too (one episode).

If this tumbr-post is a bit accurate it's amazing that noone calls RM out on his lack of imagination.

If this is true, it's pretty laughable. I have to say though, in Ryan's defense, I think the lack of imagination/creativity is pretty widespread in Hollywood night. I mean, why else are we seeing movie remakes of stuff like "Footloose" and "Total Recall" and new versions of old TV shows like "Hawaii 50" and "Charlie's Angels." It seems like Hollywood doesn't know how to invent new and interesting characters and storyliens anymore.

[Delight]

^As far as I can tell from spoilers on several websites Blaine is singing in all 4 of the new episodes they are shooting now.
BTW: so is Santana.

I really need a new mantra. I believe the song distribution is going to drive me mad someday.

I need a new mantra myself. Seriously??? Blaine and Santana singing in every episode again. Seriously??? What is wrong with these people (i.e. TPTB behind Glee who determines the song list and singers)? Can't they already tell that a lot of people are sick of hearing the same people sing over and over again? Now, I don't mind if those characters actually deserve to sing as a result of their story lines, but if it's going to turn into another 'Smooth Criminal' or 'Cough Syrup', I'm gonna... be very upset! (Okay, I'm totally not snarky enough for this thread, I'm afraid ).

Once again, I'm going to look at the positive. Kurt singing moments would be like BIG EVENTS WORTHY OF CONFETTI on the show, because they're becoming so rare and precious. Whereas if Blaine or Santana or Mercedes so much as open their mouths to sing anymore at this point, most of us would be clicking on the fast-forward button, or be looking for something to throw at our TV/computer screens.

Hmm.. I notice that many of us are very dissatisfied with the Klaine relationship and are wishing for it to end. So how about this, why don't we discuss how it could/should have been developed to make it more interesting for television?

For example -- They should have made Kurt and Blaine a relationship between equals. Blaine was shown as this braver, more out-and-proud mentor and instant confidant at the beginning of the relationship and it undermined Kurt. Also, I really want to see Blaine earn and deserve Kurt's friendship and love; instead of having Kurt falling instantly in love with Blaine and trusting him completely just because he's the only gay kid Kurt knows who is nice to him.

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