Re: General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 6

[Glorfindel]

chordover Throwback. I Miss this guy! @marksalling again as Blaine:  link to instagram.

It's a recording BTS of Mark as Blaine and Cory as Kurt. Mark is making fun of Blaine and the whole Chandler texting storyline.

Imo Mark nailed the OTT Darren acts, and even mocked Blaine a bit.

[Buenos]

Mark, so glad he's back!

[Jellyrolls]

I thought Mark and Cory had more chemistry as Kurt and Blaine than Chris and Darren had since season two.

[Lottie2303]

I thought Mark and Cory had more chemistry as Kurt and Blaine than Chris and Darren had since season two.

To play devils advocate, I strongly believe FOX did not want Klaine too look to coupl-y. Especially in S3. Because Mark and Cory were part of a parody, they were allowed to actually interact with touches and act like an over-the-top yet real couple. I think one aspect that killed Klaine is the fact that for the longest time they were not treated as a couple. I mean, all heterosexual ships were clinging and touch each other, no matter if they were only part of background actions, while Klaine always had some distance between them.

(I cannot believe my day started with defending Klaine... but well. I hate double standards).

[Ranwing]

You're not wrong, Lottie. While I hated Klaine, it was no end of frustration to me that they were hardly ever allowed to act like a couple. You'd think in the choir room where they were safe and among friends that they could hold hands, cuddle and (dare I say it) kiss like every other couple (including Brittana). But they were kept a safe distance apart (and sometimes not even seated next to one another).

It made no sense and I can understand the ire of the Klaine fans who were fed up with the show bragging about how revolutionary they were in showing two boys in a romantic relationship and insisting that they were treated like every other couple when it was very obvious that they weren't treated the same.

[Jellyrolls]

I thought Mark and Cory had more chemistry as Kurt and Blaine than Chris and Darren had since season two.

To play devils advocate, I strongly believe FOX did not want Klaine too look to coupl-y. Especially in S3.  Because Mark and Cory were part of a parody, they were allowed to actually interact with touches and act like an over-the-top yet real couple. I think one aspect that killed Klaine is the fact that for the longest time they were not treated as a couple. I mean, all heterosexual ships were clinging and touch each other, no matter if they were only part of background actions, while Klaine always had some distance between them.

(I cannot believe my day started with defending Klaine... but well. I hate double standards).

I don't think it was Fox keeping Klaine from being to couply. They certainly had no issue with Brittana PDA, as there was a lot of that in the background scenes. I always thought it was a conscience decision by Chris and Darren to avoid the PDA unless it was scripted, something that I felt that they continued even up until the Quarterback when they were back in the choir room. Many cast members have talked about how they were allowed to sit with who they wanted to and do what they wanted to when they were in the background in the choir room. Klaine was rarely together except when there was a reason for them to be part of a reaction shot. It could be as simple as Chris and Darren realizing that the Klaine fandom was really crazy, and not wanting to see all of these extra gifts of them being all couply out there--basically not give the crazy fans any more ammunition than they had to (because you know that it would be out there that every glance, every touch, etc wasn't Kurt and Blaine, but really Chris and Darren).

Honestly, I always felt that there may have been something behind the scenes shortly after the filming of the first time that changed the dynamics between Chris and Darren. That was when the chemistry between them started to change, and it started a string of episodes where they didn't have any real Klaine back and forth conversations or much interaction.

[Ranwing]

What's funny is that the complete lack of any meaningful Klaine interaction for so long lulled a lot of people (myself included) into seeing them as the most stable couple on the show given the total lack of drama for so long. All it did was mask the very real and profound dysfunction that made them easily as unhealthy as Finchel (and in some ways even more toxic since for all her crazy, Rachel never threw Finn under the bus the way Blaine has done to Kurt).

[Buenos]

Jellyrolls, Ranwing, you both bring out some very interesting points about Klaine.

My own gut is that nobody involved, including FOX, the showrunners Ryan and company, and the actors themselves, Chris and Darren , could have anticipated how quickly and big Klaine blew up as this cultural phenomenon.  Nobody knew what they were doing and how to proceed and it showed.

There is so much about it that was groundbreaking and unprecedented.   You had the first young openly gay break out star  teenage actor playing a gay character who was in a romantic relationship linked up with a straight actor who also became very popular.  Where is the blueprint for that?  Mix in rabid fans who in shipped the real life actors.

Chris had enough do deal with just being out (and I still argue he was somewhat gently  yanked out by Chelsea Handlder), barely 20  without all this Klaine business which seemed to overwhelm everything else.  

Add that FOX is a conservative network and Glee showrunners who have a track record of not really knowing how to write and develop characters after their first "brilliant" concepts  and you have the current mess.  I think Ryan and company simply don't have the basic  skill to sustain storylines and characters.  Take Blaine, you can't say that the showrunners don't love Darren but they have so destroyed that character that he makes absolutely no sense. Who the fuck in TV land, forget reality, would conceive that he should date Karofsky at this late date?   It makes his character just a joke.

It's sad because Klaine was a huge breakthrough in TV history, and Ryan will pat himself on the back for  it for the rest of his career oblivious to the fact that he drove it into the ground with a combination of incompetency, hubris and complacency all rolled into one.  I think the actors (Chris and Darren) appreciate that Glee made their careers, are very professional,  but I suspect both are ready to move on to another phase in their careers when they are not joined at the hip or have to cater so a delusional fringe.  I doubt Darren will accept another gay role any time soon and I don't think Chris will sign on for another series for a very  long time.

As to whether the actors made a conscious decision to "hold back" in scenes together, I don't know.   However it was Glee's decision to marginalize them for about a year and a half, in essence neutering them. FWIT, I do think that the new TV show format of Netflix, HBO, Showtime, Amazon prime, etc  where shows are created and produced on the net for subscribers (censorship be damned)   will circumvent some of these problems Glee had.  It tried to put on so many hats with Klaine that it ended up antagonizing and alienating everyone.

[Buenos]

Interesting, HBO didn't pick up the pilot of "Open" the new Ryan Murphy show about relationships and exploration of different aspects of sexuality. Which means that by March "AHS" will be the only RIB show on the air.

[bayth]

Interesting, HBO didn't pick up the pilot of "Open" the new Ryan Murphy show about relationships and exploration of different aspects of sexuality.  Which means that by March "AHS" will be the only RIB show on the air.

It's only RB that are involved with AHS. I wonder what Ian Brennan thinks about what has happened to his 'baby' over the last 5 seasons. Ian's brainchild has gone far astray from his original vision. I know he had a voice in the decision making for where the stories would go, but we all know who really pulled the strings.

[fantastica]

well, Ian was nobody before and he was probably very happy that his project got picked up and turned into a once phenom and won loads of awards. most people don't hit the lottery even once.

[Buenos]

On his own, Ian has a movie (thriller/horror genre) starring Elijah Woods being released in October this year.

[Lottie2303]

I am actually very interested in a show headed only by Brennan. After all he added the very dark humor I miss. Personally, I think the third guy (forgot his name and I think he doesn't like Chris?!) is the worst of the three. As much as I dislike Ryan, I actually do believe that person is responsible for the worst of the worst from Glee. Ryan "just" stopped caring a long while ago.

About Klaine... different opinions and all. Personally, I really do believe FOX got involved. After all the Sebastian story arc apparently was also changed dramatically. And Britannia really does not count in my opinion, because they got treated even worse than Klaine.

In general, I noticed since quite a while that gay showrunners really have no understanding of necessarily writing girls AND more importantly sexuality. Especially fem/fem sexuality. Many shows are bad, but this theme of a lesbian having sex with a male, strangely seems to appear a lot of times with gay showrunners (Glee, Faking It, Hannibal, Teen Wolf with turning a leasbian bisexual to bait the fanbase....). I know I am opening a can of worms, and obviously not everyone can be so loosely defined... but it bothers me a bit.

[Buenos]

I don't know if it's FOX or Glee showrunner, (or a combo of both) but I notice that straight male leads simply cannot be shown as "experimenting" sexually, it's like the taboo subject. I'm convinced that is one of the reasons they just dropped the catfishing story between Ryder and Unique cold turkey with no followup. I realize that Unique identifies as a woman but Ryder would see her as still physically a man and that is something FOX would not allow to venture any more.

[Lottie2303]

^ Oh, I remember the speculation that Unique is catfishing Ryder and I knew immediately Glee will never, ever follow through with them being in a relationship.

It also reminds me when Alyin was voted off from the Glee Project. The explanation: Aylin is not ready to play a covered Muslim girl in television. Translation: FOX so very much is not ready to have a covered Muslim girl on TV.

We cannot forget: FOX is incredibly conservative. Sometimes I am surprised the allowed the role of Kurt in the first place and actually seem to be very supportive of Chris.

[Buenos]

^ Oh, I remember the speculation that Unique is catfishing Ryder and I knew immediately Glee will never, ever follow through with them being in a relationship.

It also reminds me when Alyin was voted off from the Glee Project. The explanation: Aylin is not ready to play a covered Muslim girl in television. Translation: FOX so very much is not ready to have a covered Muslim girl on TV.

We cannot forget: FOX is incredibly conservative. Sometimes I am surprised the allowed the role of Kurt in the first place and actually seem to be very supportive of Chris.  

I think FOX recognizes Chris Colfer's talents and how popular he is. More than Glee itself, it seems.

[Lottie2303]

^ True. At the end, FOX are a very lucrative and successful business. They recognize revenue ad Chris is most certainly a cash cow.

[ColferInspired]

[Link]

[rainespeaks]

A well organized clique.

[ColferInspired]

Well, Grant has admitted he has read a few fics and seems to find nothing wrong with them.

His schedule would probably prevent it, but that would the biggest plot twist ever.

[Buenos]

Well, Grant has admitted he has read a few fics and seems to find nothing wrong with them.

His schedule would probably prevent it, but that would the biggest plot twist ever.

Ha!  We all know Grant ships Kurtbastian...

[brisallie]

Well, Grant has admitted he has read a few fics and seems to find nothing wrong with them.

His schedule would probably prevent it, but that would the biggest plot twist ever.

That would be a perfect ending I so love Kurtbastian

[Lottie2303]

Grant totally is the biggest Kurtbastian shipper. We could it gave it aaaall!

Still, it warms my little black heart

[Glorfindel]

Well, Grant has admitted he has read a few fics and seems to find nothing wrong with them.

His schedule would probably prevent it, but that would the biggest plot twist ever.

Really, that would be a great ending. Or if not Sebastian, than either Adam or Elliot.

[Jellyrolls]

Of course Grant is a Kurtbastian shipper. Gosh, could you imagine what it would be like if Chris had an actor like Grant acting opposite him.

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