Re: 4x19 "Sweet Dreams" Watch & Discussion thread

[Lottie2303]

Finally watched the Kurt scenes, did anyone miss the Sweeney Todd reference? Something might be coming out there... Especially because they'd get stoned by not including Chris in a prominent role. Maybe they'll introduce Shirley Todd and adapt Chris idea? That would be such a huge honor, great idea and would bring so much potential! Not to mention the potential critical acclaim and respect Chris could garner. It also would incorporate Kurt, Rachel and even other cast members easily.

Glee writers, are you listening???! Make that happen!

I noticed the Sweeney Todd reference, and in my mind I though it was a wink to Chris's Shirley Todd. But probably it wasn't that. And I know they have taken lots of things from Chris himself to put it on Kurt, but I'm unsure about this. I'm just afraid the stupid writers take the idea but it turns to be a McKenley musical at the end.

As regards Sam, I think they're making him more stupid every episode. I'm wondering if is because he has to be leveled with Brittany's stupidity.

I created this entire headcannon today, I'd be totally excited to see in S5. Especially because it could be a long season arc with a lot of focus on the career, drive and ambition of some of the kids. This is probably going to be long:

- They could work together with Chris and actually do Shirley Todd. They could hire Chris to write the episode. The Glee fandom already knows about this musical, so it would create a lot of buzz that even people who stopped watching would potentially come back (I'd be back in a second!). Chris would get even more credentials and he could see his musical on screen. A big win/win.

- It could be self-produced, directed and acted show that would eventually turn in a huge success.

- Rachel as Shirley; Kurt as Mr Lovett; Santana as the bad guy. It is a musical were all major characters of Glee can actually be represented within the musical. Also ST wasn't done before so no danger of already used song selection. Artie could direct. The Apples and other characters in the background. Done.

- The entire process of having the idea, developing the idea, starting the production process, rehearsing, the drama surrounding the show, the show itself and finally the results could cover an entire season.

- It would hand out legit and believable ways how Rachel and Kurt get discovered.

- It could have a major Kurt focus, because as Chris being the writer of the musical, they couldn't dismiss him. The audience would stone RIB alive and they know that.

- One or even two episodes actually being the play. That would be new and revolutionary as RIB promised.

- Add everything together: great writing (due to Chris), amazing acting (due to using the write people), customers, setting etc: Emmy episode.

Sorry, I love that idea so much and really want to see it happen. That tiny reference really started an overdrive of imagination.

[arina]

I don't know I like to see actors and characters separated, I hate characters bleed. I already did not like Kurt using sai swords or Burt telling Kurt to write his own things (even though we have never seen Kurt being interesting in writing or having talent for it.)

[tanita_mors]

i hate actor bleed as well. it's a sure sign of lack of imagination in the writers room. some of it can be cute if contained to little things - like finn playing the drums like cory, kurt being obsessed with wicked like chris, rachel being a barbara fan/impersonator like lea. but anything more is just too much.

[brisallie]

What does it mean "character/actor bleed"?

[fantastica]

^ when you stab the character and drip the actor's blood in his/her vein.

[tanita_mors]

it's when certain, unusual characteristics or traits, curiosities of a particular actor end up being true for a character they play, or when situations that happened to the actors themselves happen to the characters they play.

[Glorfindel]

I agree. Actor's bleed is annoying and very sloppy of the writers.
After 'Defying Gravity' it became old very fast. I didn't like Kurt twirling ninja swords nor the hints at him writing his own stuff.

[brisallie]

^ when you stab the character and drip the actor's blood in his/her vein.

it's when certain, unusual characteristics or traits, curiosities of a particular actor end up being true for a character they play, or when situations that happened to the actors themselves happen to the characters they play.

Thanks for your explanation. And now that I understand better what it is, neither I like when a character takes so many things from the actor. And though in this case Kurt was actually based on Chris, we all know the story behind, for me they're still two different people. But I won't deny that I felt enthusiastic with the idea of Shirley Todd, but then I thought that's something that only belongs to Chris.

[Lottie2303]

I agree about the Sai-swords and character bleeding, but I still believe 'Shirley Todd' can be done as I see Kurt as someone also saying 'screw it. I am doing something' myself. Also, this idea could only be executed with Chris permission. It would be a major chance for him to write an episode/musical for Glee. If done right, and this is Chris we are talking about, it could open endless new doors.

I'll stick with it, I want this to happen. Most likely won't be. Otherwise use a different musical but the same concept. It would be great, creative way to gather the actors and give a venue for them getting discovered.

[Divalicious]

It's been a busy weekend, so I finally get a chance to jot down my thoughts on this so called episode. It's been a couple of days, but I have no intention of watching that dreck again, so I apologize if I get anything wrong.

So Sam's reaction to Brittney leaving and PTSD is to pretend he has a smarter twin? Umm, okay. Did you have to show him like 3 or 4 times, but give Kurt only 2 lines and do wopping for Rachel? For that matter did we really have to talk about Unique's breasts more than once? Nice to know even transgender kids get obsessed with breast size. As if that is all there is to being a woman. Whatever. If it took 3 seasons for Puck and Finn to find out what being a man was, over and over again, I guess she should have her fair time of not knowing.

I am sure Chris loves his free time, and it has given him time to spend with Will, so for that I am glad. I am not glad to see Kurt continually reduced to supporting characters who aren't as interesting as he is. Rachel is in this category as well, until she loses special snowflake status and becomes interesting. I think that might happen. Knowing they have 2 years, they can't give Rachel her last dream. She's already accomplished everything else, NYADA star, showcase winner. Heck, if she wanted to go back to season 2 and write a song, she has had a gay boyfriend, and a boyfriend who slept around for money. Lyric gold, there. They have to pace themselves now, so I wouldn't be surprised if nobody wins anything. Well, except for Blaine, because him not winning would cause an eternal eclipse of the human spirit, and RIB doesn't want to go there.

McKinley was boring. I was watching the first season of Glee today, the first 3 episodes, and I noticed the dramatic differences. The writing was sharp, and witty, musical cues made sense. People had edges and passion. Now they are perfect little pups, round and interchangeable. They have no drive or passion for anything, except for tiny things.

Rachel might annoy me, especially when there was a Rachel vs Kurt mentality, but she had magnificent drive. Kurt strove to break out of everyone's stereotype and let his voice be heard. Finn battled his newly discovered desire to sing with his need to be popular. Etc, etc. Now we have people obsessed with hair gel, and trying to keep their songs a secret from fellow Glee members for what reason I can't even comprehend. We have a focus on seniors behaving like gradeschoolers and being bros, instead of growing up to be worthy of their significant others. Blaine doesn't feel a year younger than Kurt (even though he looks much older for obvious reasons) he feels like he has 5 years different between him and Kurt. I feel this vast cravasse between the two of them.

New Directions is bland, for all the spice went to New York. They just kind of wander around, when they are acting and when they are performing.

Back to the episode.

Roz might be grating, and one note, but at least she doesn't worship Blaine, so I am going to let her slide. She also is the only person not stupid enough to wonder why Sue would have a gun, and accidentally drop it twice. I mean really, this occurred to no one else? Thankfully, Blaine, whom this did not occur to either, is investigating this whole fiasco. Hopefully, they will have numerous people much smarter than he salting the ground with clues for him to follow. We can't have Blaine actually work for something, he might melt his gel.

Becky being mean, so tired of it. I am all for the Down's population getting on-going representation in television, which is rare, but I get tired of all bitches, and I make no difference for one who has Down's. I don't mind them in the beginning, but after a couple of years, it is time to grow up, or get called on it. If Santana had gotten called for being the consummate bitch that she is, it wouldn't bug me, but she doesn't, so it does. I also see Santana as being purposefully mean, where I see Kitty as being socially oblivious, who has to have it pointed out to her that she isn't saying nice things. She has no filter. Also, I haven't had three years of Kitty being a bitch, so reserve my right to change my opinion.

Did anything else happen? Oh yes, Rachel gets a call back, after singing a song dreaming about her friends. I still like the first time they sang this best. Shallow note, Kurt's butt looked mighty fine when he was baking those cookies. He looked like a sweetly nervous little chipmunk chewing on that cookie. Sadly, they had him out of focus so we could dwell on Rachel's concerned face. Doesn't he read the scripts? Rachel may not win the small battles that she doesn't care about, but for over 3 seasons she wins the big ones. Still, perhaps her having the call back was her win, heh, much like Kurt's big win in season 3 was getting to audition for NYADA, but not get in. But, unlike Kurt, she has had a season of victories. We can't even count Brody now as a loss, because she admits she was using him, and now it seems like she had no real feelings for him.

Glee is so out there, that part of me does think they could possibly have her become an understudy at least. But really, she is a first year student at NYADA, not one stage acting job to her name. I refuse to believe that in NYC there isn't at least two people more qualified then Rachel to be star and understudy for the role. Even if Rachel is one in a billion. It would be more realistic to have her fight all through next season to get a role, even a bit part, and finally get one end of season 5, and then have her dream stage debut at the end of 6. But we shouldn't use the "real" word anymore than we should use "hope" in regards to Glee.

Finn and Puck were amusing. I do really feel that this episode felt like a reset, because it was the first to happen after the FOX talks, I believe. While it was just announced, I think they knew then it was basically a done deal, and they had to reset stories to make them last a longer arc. Puck being the voice of reason, why not. I liked that he pointed out that kids deserved a better teacher than someone who just passes the courses. Hail to the non-spanish speaking Spanish teacher. Took him much longer to learn that lesson. But it was also more character assassination, thankfully they seem to be turning a corner. It took them two seasons to get to writing Mr. Schue a bit better, perhaps Kurt has already put his time in purgatory (seasons 3 and 4) and maybe season 5 might actually have Kurt being the center of his own damn story and not a prop. He requires no prop, writers, that is a good thing. Use it.

Nothing else is occurring to me right now. Perhaps something else happened, but nothing seemed to matter, except for Kurt's magnificent tush. A truly filler episode.

I dammithope that Glee gives me a little more lovely Kurt, and not just Klaine, to get me through the summer, because after 18 episodes it feels like he has barely been on. He started well, with going to NY, getting an apartment, a job. Then a long nothing, and then into NYADA, and then a possible boyfriend that immediately disappeared. Sex with his ex, for whatever reason, but this last half of the season is more propping Rachel and Santana than having an actual story. I can't decide which season I dislike more, season 3, the season of loss, or season 4 so far, the season of going from being in Blaine's musical shadow to Rachel's once again. But now they are besties so he can't even bitch about it. Some episodes left, perhaps the writers learned their lesson to not let Kurt's audience go into the Summer pissed off, because we don't forget, and now they know that.

[MoviesAreLife]

Finally watched the Kurt scenes, did anyone miss the Sweeney Todd reference? Something might be coming out there... Especially because they'd get stoned by not including Chris in a prominent role. Maybe they'll introduce Shirley Todd and adapt Chris idea? That would be such a huge honor, great idea and would bring so much potential! Not to mention the potential critical acclaim and respect Chris could garner. It also would incorporate Kurt, Rachel and even other cast members easily.

Glee writers, are you listening???! Make that happen!

I noticed the Sweeney Todd reference, and in my mind I though it was a wink to Chris's Shirley Todd. But probably it wasn't that. And I know they have taken lots of things from Chris himself to put it on Kurt, but I'm unsure about this. I'm just afraid the stupid writers take the idea but it turns to be a McKenley musical at the end.

As regards Sam, I think they're making him more stupid every episode. I'm wondering if is because he has to be leveled with Brittany's stupidity.

I created this entire headcannon today, I'd be totally excited to see in S5. Especially because it could be a long season arc with a lot of focus on the career, drive and ambition of some of the kids. This is probably going to be long:

- They could work together with Chris and actually do Shirley Todd. They could hire Chris to write the episode. The Glee fandom already knows about this musical, so it would create a lot of buzz that even people who stopped watching would potentially come back (I'd be back in a second!). Chris would get even more credentials and he could see his musical on screen. A big win/win.

- It could be self-produced, directed and acted show that would eventually turn in a huge success.

- Rachel as Shirley; Kurt as Mr Lovett; Santana as the bad guy. It is a musical were all major characters of Glee can actually be represented within the musical. Also ST wasn't done before so no danger of already used song selection. Artie could direct. The Apples and other characters in the background. Done.

- The entire process of having the idea, developing the idea, starting the production process, rehearsing, the drama surrounding the show, the show itself and finally the results could cover an entire season.

- It would hand out legit and believable ways how Rachel and Kurt get discovered.

- It could have a major Kurt focus, because as Chris being the writer of the musical, they couldn't dismiss him. The audience would stone RIB alive and they know that.

- One or even two episodes actually being the play. That would be new and revolutionary as RIB promised.

- Add everything together: great writing (due to Chris), amazing acting (due to using the write people), customers, setting etc: Emmy episode.

Sorry, I love that idea so much and really want to see it happen. That tiny reference really started an overdrive of imagination.

I love, love, LOVE this idea! I'm not familiar with the show, but I love that it mirrors a passion project from Chris in his past. I'd personally pick a different show (like RENT, 'cuz I'm obssessed! ) but I love how this gives everyone a chance to shine. It sounds like a fun ensemble peice for everyone, rather than just a starring vehicle for one person (Funny Girl for Rachel). I can so see a group of artistis (the ND kids in NYC, maybe some NYADA kids?) coming together, working behind the scenes and onstage to create something great! It's excited! And why not give Kurt some of Chris' most wonderful traits?! I actually love character/actor bleed. Sure, it's lazy writing....but I love the wink and the nudge, the inspiration, that the writers get for the character from the actor. I love to see a character I love adopt the best traits from the actor/actress I love to become this...amazing entity. You write what you know. And we know Chris is a very successful, entertainment mogul in the making. If there is any successful, Cinderella story I want Kurt's character arc to mimic, it would be Chris'. And episode like this would be a great, shining moment for Chris and for Kurt. And I loved all of the personalized touches of character bleed in the past: the sai swords, the Barbra worship, Kurt writing his own stuff, and the Defying Gravity moment (one of Kurt's greatest earlier moments). They all add something to the character and flesh them out, IMO. In short, I think Lottie's idea if a stroke of genius.

I wonder if Glee will ever do a straight play storyline? And by "straight play", I mean a non-musical play. I know that Rachel auditioned for "The Glass Menagerie", but it was brushed under the rug. Does a musical TV show mean they have to do musicals in order to keep the audience entertained? Because I can think of some plays that I've love to see the kids do that are not musicals.

I'd like to see the NYC crowd (don't care about MK) tackle everything. Short films, feature films, indies, music, bands, dance, TV, Shakespeare, non-musical plays, and musicals...both traditional musicals and more modern, edgy musicals. And now that they've got two more years, they have time to tackle everything. One small, indie little musical that sounds interesting as hell is called "Speech and Debate". I've never actually seen it (as I'm sure most people haven't), but it sounds a bit like a darker,twisted version of Glee and right up Chris' alley. It has a very small cast of only three main characters, too.

[MoviesAreLife]

It's been a busy weekend, so I finally get a chance to jot down my thoughts on this so called episode. It's been a couple of days, but I have no intention of watching that dreck again, so I apologize if I get anything wrong.

So Sam's reaction to Brittney leaving and PTSD is to pretend he has a smarter twin? Umm, okay. Did you have to show him like 3 or 4 times, but give Kurt only 2 lines and do wopping for Rachel? For that matter did we really have to talk about Unique's breasts more than once? Nice to know even transgender kids get obsessed with breast size. As if that is all there is to being a woman. Whatever. If it took 3 seasons for Puck and Finn to find out what being a man was, over and over again, I guess she should have her fair time of not knowing.

I am sure Chris loves his free time, and it has given him time to spend with Will, so for that I am glad. I am not glad to see Kurt continually reduced to supporting characters who aren't as interesting as he is. Rachel is in this category as well, until she loses special snowflake status and becomes interesting. I think that might happen. Knowing they have 2 years, they can't give Rachel her last dream. She's already accomplished everything else, NYADA star, showcase winner. Heck, if she wanted to go back to season 2 and write a song, she has had a gay boyfriend, and a boyfriend who slept around for money. Lyric gold, there. They have to pace themselves now, so I wouldn't be surprised if nobody wins anything. Well, except for Blaine, because him not winning would cause an eternal eclipse of the human spirit, and RIB doesn't want to go there.

McKinley was boring. I was watching the first season of Glee today, the first 3 episodes, and I noticed the dramatic differences. The writing was sharp, and witty, musical cues made sense. People had edges and passion. Now they are perfect little pups, round and interchangeable. They have no drive or passion for anything, except for tiny things.

Rachel might annoy me, especially when there was a Rachel vs Kurt mentality, but she had magnificent drive. Kurt strove to break out of everyone's stereotype and let his voice be heard. Finn battled his newly discovered desire to sing with his need to be popular. Etc, etc. Now we have people obsessed with hair gel, and trying to keep their songs a secret from fellow Glee members for what reason I can't even comprehend. We have a focus on seniors behaving like gradeschoolers and being bros, instead of growing up to be worthy of their significant others. Blaine doesn't feel a year younger than Kurt (even though he looks much older for obvious reasons) he feels like he has 5 years different between him and Kurt. I feel this vast cravasse between the two of them.

New Directions is bland, for all the spice went to New York. They just kind of wander around, when they are acting and when they are performing.

Back to the episode.

Roz might be grating, and one note, but at least she doesn't worship Blaine, so I am going to let her slide. She also is the only person not stupid enough to wonder why Sue would have a gun, and accidentally drop it twice. I mean really, this occurred to no one else? Thankfully, Blaine, whom this did not occur to either, is investigating this whole fiasco. Hopefully, they will have numerous people much smarter than he salting the ground with clues for him to follow. We can't have Blaine actually work for something, he might melt his gel.

Becky being mean, so tired of it. I am all for the Down's population getting on-going representation in television, which is rare, but I get tired of all bitches, and I make no difference for one who has Down's. I don't mind them in the beginning, but after a couple of years, it is time to grow up, or get called on it. If Santana had gotten called for being the consummate bitch that she is, it wouldn't bug me, but she doesn't, so it does. I also see Santana as being purposefully mean, where I see Kitty as being socially oblivious, who has to have it pointed out to her that she isn't saying nice things. She has no filter. Also, I haven't had three years of Kitty being a bitch, so reserve my right to change my opinion.

Did anything else happen? Oh yes, Rachel gets a call back, after singing a song dreaming about her friends. I still like the first time they sang this best. Shallow note, Kurt's butt looked mighty fine when he was baking those cookies. He looked like a sweetly nervous little chipmunk chewing on that cookie. Sadly, they had him out of focus so we could dwell on Rachel's concerned face. Doesn't he read the scripts? Rachel may not win the small battles that she doesn't care about, but for over 3 seasons she wins the big ones. Still, perhaps her having the call back was her win, heh, much like Kurt's big win in season 3 was getting to audition for NYADA, but not get in. But, unlike Kurt, she has had a season of victories. We can't even count Brody now as a loss, because she admits she was using him, and now it seems like she had no real feelings for him.

Glee is so out there, that part of me does think they could possibly have her become an understudy at least. But really, she is a first year student at NYADA, not one stage acting job to her name. I refuse to believe that in NYC there isn't at least two people more qualified then Rachel to be star and understudy for the role. Even if Rachel is one in a billion. It would be more realistic to have her fight all through next season to get a role, even a bit part, and finally get one end of season 5, and then have her dream stage debut at the end of 6. But we shouldn't use the "real" word anymore than we should use "hope" in regards to Glee.

Finn and Puck were amusing. I do really feel that this episode felt like a reset, because it was the first to happen after the FOX talks, I believe. While it was just announced, I think they knew then it was basically a done deal, and they had to reset stories to make them last a longer arc. Puck being the voice of reason, why not. I liked that he pointed out that kids deserved a better teacher than someone who just passes the courses. Hail to the non-spanish speaking Spanish teacher. Took him much longer to learn that lesson. But it was also more character assassination, thankfully they seem to be turning a corner. It took them two seasons to get to writing Mr. Schue a bit better, perhaps Kurt has already put his time in purgatory (seasons 3 and 4) and maybe season 5 might actually have Kurt being the center of his own damn story and not a prop. He requires no prop, writers, that is a good thing. Use it.

Nothing else is occurring to me right now. Perhaps something else happened, but nothing seemed to matter, except for Kurt's magnificent tush. A truly filler episode.

I dammithope that Glee gives me a little more lovely Kurt, and not just Klaine, to get me through the summer, because after 18 episodes it feels like he has barely been on. He started well, with going to NY, getting an apartment, a job. Then a long nothing, and then into NYADA, and then a possible boyfriend that immediately disappeared. Sex with his ex, for whatever reason, but this last half of the season is more propping Rachel and Santana than having an actual story. I can't decide which season I dislike more, season 3, the season of loss, or season 4 so far, the season of going from being in Blaine's musical shadow to Rachel's once again. But now they are besties so he can't even bitch about it. Some episodes left, perhaps the writers learned their lesson to not let Kurt's audience go into the Summer pissed off, because we don't forget, and now they know that.

I hate how super nasty characters are glorified on this show.

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