Re: 4x03 "Makeover" Watch & Discussion thread

[tanita_mors]

people will never be satisfied. they don't like his vogue storyline. well, i'm sure they will love it when he joins rachel at nyada and starts stilling her screen time there. i bet they will love that even more. as for the validity of it. if rachel can get in after screwing up like she did, if quinn can walk after being t-boned by a car, if sue can push people down a staircase and not be hurt by that, then kurt can be in vogue and rule there fabulously. no one has the right to say that one storyline is believable while the other one isn't. non of this shit has a single shred of believability in it and that is why i can take it and not lose my effing mind.

[brisallie]

I'm with you Tanita, people always complaint for something. Hardly ever they're happy with a storyline, at least this involve their favorite character but even in those moments I've read that people are still unsatisfied with what's going on, so this isn't new. And Glee being a series about a show choir? Umm last episode any of the performs happened in the choir room, actually the episode started with a performance which came from nowhere of Blaine. For me is more like a musical overall. And music and fashion go together, for me.

[Delight]

Was anyone else a bit disappointed that Sean Gunn (Kirk in the Gilmore Girls) was totally wasted in the show choir commitee?
I had hoped he would be in the Vogue storyline.

I didn't even notice him in the committee. Did he even get a spoken line at all? Oh wait, he did. There's 'Oh my god' and 'There's a huge debate over that'. And a couple of face shots with him looking worried. Talk about underutilized actors...

Anyway, I guess that's all we'll see of him on Glee. Once again it makes it obvious that thinking too much about Glee spoilers isn't exactly a good use of time....

...and people being jealous of Kurt getting too much storylines.

and people complaining that Vogue and fashion "have got nothing to do with Glee" (the show that is supposed to be about show choir).

One Kurt-centric episode and the complaints are rolling in already? Typical . People who are jealous about Kurt getting too many storylines should wait until the whole season finishes airing. There are way too many characters on this show and I don't harbour hope that there are anymore Kurt-centric episode after this one. For the rest of the season he would most likely be used to fulfill his roles as Rachel's best gay and one half of Klaine. I do wish we'll get a lot more Isabelle, because how much SJP we get determines how much Vogue/Kurt we'll get.

The Vogue storyline does appear a bit disjointed/separated from the rest of the show (because it's about the adult working world, as opposed to the school/college environment). However, they've shown that songs and performances can still be successfully incorporated into a fashion storyline with the Rachel makever mashup, so I say that Glee (where I sometimes feel that iTune sales are all that matter) shouldn't have any trouble following through on Kurt's journey, even if it's not in NYADA. It's a matter of whether they want to or not.

But from a logistics POV... Yeah. Kurt would most likely be joining Rachel at some point, wouldn't he?

In general, LDR's and long-term relationships take A LOT of work to maintain. Both partners need to be understanding of the other person's needs. Kurt will need to check in with his partner to see if they're okay & really listen to their need(s). Blaine has this tendency in avoiding problems until it blows up (DWS). Both characters, since it's their first relationship, will need to learn about communication.

^ I agree with this. This is what I got from the episode as well. It's realistic for people to drift apart when physically separated for long periods of time. It's the 'Kurt is such a horrible and selfish person/boyfriend and poor Blaine poor Blaine' eruption in cyberspace that makes me unhappy about the whole situation.

Spoiler:

people will never be satisfied. they don't like his vogue storyline. well, i'm sure they will love it when he joins rachel at nyada and starts stilling her screen time there. i bet they will love that even more. as for the validity of it. if rachel can get in after screwing up like she did, if quinn can walk after being t-boned by a car, if sue can push people down a staircase and not be hurt by that, then kurt can be in vogue and rule there fabulously. no one has the right to say that one storyline is believable while the other one isn't. non of this shit has a single shred of believability in it and that is why i can take it and not lose my effing mind.

Glee doesn't operate on logic. So anyone who argues loudly that it's unrealistic for Kurt to succeed so quickly in Vogue (and I fully agree with this opinion, actually) should just keep in mind those examples you've mentioned and keep quiet.

I'm just tired of seeing Kurt getting crushed over and over again, and seeing him succeed-- as implausible as that success may be-- is something I desperately wish to see. It's not satisfying by any means (because now even his success doesn't feel like real success as it borders on fantasy), but Kurt/Isabelle scenes are so nice to watch that I can happily ignore the faults in the storyline.

[CloveGlee]

The only thing that might be worse than a storyline where Kurt rises to prominence in New York fashion immediately on the strength of a single good idea.... might just be a storyline where Kurt sorts mail in a dank factory and getting yelled at by a boss who calls him Swish. Kurt's been downtrodden way too damned long and they were trying to fix a massive problem. Yes, it was too fast, but one more season of angst and I've have given up on TV altogether.

[M&M]

The only thing that might be worse than a storyline where Kurt rises to prominence in New York fashion immediately on the strength of a single good idea.... might just be a storyline where Kurt sorts mail in a dank factory and getting yelled at by a boss who calls him Swish. Kurt's been downtrodden way too damned long and they were trying to fix a massive problem. Yes, it was too fast, but one more season of angst and I've have given up on TV altogether.

I will never complain about how Vogue happened. Isabelle liked him before he came in because she related to small town Ohio mixed with big dreams of NYC. Realistic? Not necessarily, but Isabelle was floundering and trusted Kurt from the beginning to be honest. They connected fast and I am fine with that.

[fantastica]

gosh i will go for any kurt scenes be it fast, lightening fast or simply jump from A to Z in one second. I need my kurt. whatever he's doing. however bad the writing is. right now my expectation is in teh negative range so anything w/ him in it I will watch, as long as I turn my brain off.

[coxfire]

the episode was OK but unfortunately some parts brought it down.

The Vogue parts were great, since we finally get to see Kurt succeed, and that was long overdue, particularly after last year debacle. Chris was great in the interview scene, both excited and super-stressed, and the Makeover scene was just adorable.

Now for the other parts, I get Blaine, and I understand his feeling of being left behind, it's perfectly understandable, but I don't get why the show insists on telling me that he is "all alone". Yes, Kurt is away, but Blaine is still in High School, he still interacts everyday with other students, and is still in the Glee Club. I don't believe that in the whole year he spent in McKinley, he didn't make any friends besides Kurt. I mean, he was part of the "Bro-vention" set up for Puck and he was voted "the New Rachel", it's not like now that Kurt is gone the ND turned their back on him. So I didn't like the show forcing me to feel Blaine's loneliness, when Kurt, besides Rachel, really has no one in NY. What was he doing when Rachel was in NYADA, or when she hanged with Brody before Vogue? Who did he have with him?

An other part that was understandable but felt forced to me was the part where Kurt ignores Blaine's bowtie-dilemma to speak about his video. The way it was made, the show was forcing the audience to feel "Oh, poor Blaine, ignored by his boyfriend, boohoo". Yes, Kurt was self-centered, but come on, the guy is finally praised for being who he is after years of being insulted/mocked/humiliated for that. Is he not allowed one tiny week of selfishness? When Blaine accepted the part for Tony while Kurt wanted it, the show did not allow Kurt to resent him, instead, had him buy his boyfriend flowers. So yes Blaine, I get you, you miss your boyfriend, but just because he gets overboard with his new job doesn't mean he doesn't miss you too. And if you feel left out: TELL IT!

The intention of the show is not bad, it's just showing how difficult maintaining a LDR is difficult, but I thought there was too much emphasis on their part to woobify Blaine, when, really, Kurt acted like any excited tennager (human being) would react if they finally had a shot at launching their careers.

Anyway, back to the rest of the show. The McKinley election was bof: neither great nor awful, but so inconsistent with how everything was handled last year that it felt weird. Once more, too much Brittany, enough with this character, even if I liked her scene with Sam in the end. I just hope the writers would stick to friendship for these two, but Glee-god forbid that a boy and a girl can be in another relationship than a romantic one...Damn

Regarding Sam, they completely dumbed his character, but whatever. I know some are furious about the comment Sam made about Kurt, unfortunately I found it to be one of the most realistic thing he said. In this society, there would be few chances for a jock like Sam to befriend a guy like Kurt. Apart from their love of music, which lead them to be both in the Glee Club, they don't have many common interests, and even in music you can have divergent tastes. That doesn't mean they would never get along, just that they don't have much in common. The only problem with this comment is that once again it brings down the "kind of gay" (I hate to say it but don't know how to put it better) Kurt is, and promotes the "Gay passing as straight" kind of gay. I thought Glee was a message of tolerance and overcoming stereotypes but whatever.

Speaking of: Glee, after 2 episodes telling us not to be mean with Marley's mother and not to mock her wheight you have Sue cracking fat jokes? Really, Glee???

Now, for the music he are my personal thoughts:
- EWTRTW: I like the original song, and it was sung nicely by DC whose voice suits it well, but it added nothing to it either. So I'll say it was OK, not transcanding
- Celebrity skin: AWFUL. First, I love rock, but "real" rock, not that kind of poppish ersatz of pseudo rock. Second: Brittany sung it. It had been a while I hadn't hated a Glee song like that
- A change would do you good: bof. Didn't work for me. Dean's voice is not atrocious, but to think that this guy entered NYADA instead of Jesse St James? Please.
- The way .../you're never...: ADORABLE. It was endearing, cheerful, fun and the voices of LM, CC and SPJ harmonized wonderfully together, it was definetely the highlight of the episode

Wow, sorry for the novel, I didn't think it'd be that long...

[Glorfindel]

Over on GF I was asked why it's such a problem that Blaine wins where Kurt lost, and that Glee showing that masculine gays have it easier than femme gays is only 'realistic'. (I swear: I hate the word 'realistic' as much as 'resilient' by now).
As I think this is an issue that could be discussed here as well, I've decided to copy and paste it.
This is my (very long ) reply, but you can also check it out here: Rate Makeover and official episode discussion thread

Let me try to explain why I think that Kurt may be a strong, independent character, but he's not celebrated for his effeminacy anymore (not untill Vogue that is), and why "It's all about Blaine" is and should be a valid factor in Kurt's gay storylines and the mixed messages Glee is sending.
I'll also show you that imo there is no deliberate message or ‘reality’ involved in Glee showing the femme gay struggling where the masculine gay does not in high school, and especially why this episode (since we’re in the episode discussion thread) sends all the wrong signals, and is therefore a part of a long row of Glee sending wrong signals.
But I warn you: this is a long post, and in the beginning I have to refer back to other episodes (but I’ll get to the issues in this episode very soon).


1) Blaine is not only the able to pass gay: he’s the untouchable gay.
Realistically you’d expect that Blaine would get at least about 10-25% of the crap Kurt got, as he is an out and proud dapper gay in that same homophobic environment. Heck: Finn was afraid that Sam would get bullied for simply singing with Kurt: so how much bullying would Kurt’s openly boyfriend get, only one year later? But not only did Blaine never get zero crap himself for being gay, being able to pass or not: several times in season 3, and now in 'Makeover' it’s even the exact opposite: Blaine is deemed better for being the more acceptable gay, whether it's only better in the eyes of effeminaphobic peers and teachers or not: that never was explicitly explained in the canon. He just was better, period.
Plus they have always kept Blaine far away from his boyfriend’s homophobic and effeminaphobic problems. Kurt faced it all alone in season 3: Blaine was nowhere to be found in any of Kurt's gay storylines. And Kurt’s painful past at Junior Prom (and Blaine’s own past with the Sadie Hawkins dance!) got replaced at Senior Prom by hairgel problems!
Part of Kurt always suffering and Blaine always being completely untouched by homophobia issues at McKinley can be explained by Blaine being able to pass in the Glee world, but it is obvious that RIB deliberately keep Blaine away from the Gay Woes of Kurt (I might send @BowtieBlaine a thank you note for introducing that phrase ), and RIB also conveniently forget that Blaine is gay when he’s not with Kurt.
Blaine is untouchable as a gay boy in an open gay relationship, as Brittany seems to be untouchable as a bisexual girl in an open relationship with a lesbian. It is no coincidence that Blaine and Brittany are the only 2 ND kids who never got slushied. They are the occasional LGBT characters: only gay in their romantic relationships, and only then in Very Special Episodes. When their LGBT status gets mentioned outside of their relationships it’s only either to crack a joke or to make an excuse why they are still accepted and popular at McKinley High regardless of that status (like Sam did several times in this episode).

2) Kurt used to be celebrated as the 'inspirational' femme gay who defied the system, but not anymore:
I perfectly understand that straight passing gays have better options and ‘blend in’ easier than the more effeminate gays. Sadly that is true in ‘reality’. But here’s the crux: Glee is not reality, not by a long shot. It’s a tv show that praises itself for being ‘inspirational’ and for advocating the LGBT rights: equality and inclusion and all that jazz.
The whole point of setting main characters up as underdogs in a tv show is to make them win and triumph over adversities in the end, against all the odds, even if it's only a moral win. And at first glance Vogue could be seen as that win for the (effeminate) gay protagonist of Glee. The cow town restrictions of Lima don’t apply in New York anymore, so Kurt finally gets the opportunity to be judged and praised for who he is. A great Cinderfella story that came way too easy and was way too unbelievable and rushed. But whatever, beggars can’t be choosers, and it was about damn time.
Now shut up, Kurtsies.
But Vogue is a deflection, not a solution of the real problem. Kurt shows with Vogue that effeminaphobic Lima was the real problem, not him. But the real problem never was tackled nor called out after season 1 and early season 2. And in season 3 Kurt was not shown as the struggling narrative hero in the right at all anymore: the system was deemed right, or at least excused. RIB showed Kurt getting rejected and ridiculed for his effeminacy, whether it was because the other characters were effeminaphobic or because Kurt himself was restricted by his effeminacy: that was not made clear, but it left the impression that the femme gay is the odd ball out in society, and the alpha male gay is the better gay. Kurt's effeminacy that made him stronger and was the best of him was not celebrated anymore: it set him back, over and over again, and Kurt's victory in season 3 was that he lived through it and graduated high school, that's all.
You’d expect an ‘inspiring’ show like Glee to get its main LGBT character who’s struggling with LGBT issues to be rewarded for his ‘resilience’ and to overcome these unjust obstacles, if only on a humane and moral level. But that never happened.
The only thing Glee did in season 3 that could be described as a moral win for Kurt was letting him audition with a song that embraced his inner 'unicorn': ‘Not The Boy Next Door’. But with that song Kurt stereotyped and pigeonholed himself instead of overcoming a struggle with being stereotyped and pigeonholed. Kurt even enforced by this audition that he deserved those earlier losses because he never could be seen as more than an effeminate gay (not implying that being effeminate is not good enough, but more that Glee is implying that it's a limitation, not so much an extra asset). And look what that audition brought Kurt: “I didn’t get in”. The initial NYADA audition win was completely negated by Kurt not getting any meaningful result from it. And why? We’ll probably never know.

Glee didn’t even send the message that for femme gays that’s just the way it is in the 'real' world, so just suck it up. No, they diffused and undermined these effeminate gay (vs. masculine gay) storylines they set up themselves by abandoning and dropping them without actually addressing and solving them properly. And now they diffuse the issue again by making Blaine win where Kurt lost because of the other (same as last year) candidate messing up, and not because Blaine has it easier in life as an alpha male than femme Kurt. Glee avoids the direct confrontation and comparison between their femme gay and their masculine gay like the plague, but they can’t seem to stop themselves to keep hinting at it.
There are some very nasty implications in Glee, mostly caused by those dropped and/or botched storylines, and these implications send messages that I don’t think Glee wants to send.

The messages Glee send in this episode:
In ‘Makeover’ the 2 gay guys of Glee established 3 things:
1) Kurt finally wins after 2 seasons of being rejected for who he is: an effeminate gay,
2) Blaine wins the election that Kurt lost only last year,
3) The beginning of the Blam friendship.

The messages behind them? (imo of course)
1) Kurt finally wins after 2 seasons of being rejected for who he is: an effeminate gay:
In order to finally succeed Kurt needed to get away from that toxic (for him, not for Blaine) environment of McKinley and Lima.
Message: When you’re gay-diddy-gay-gay it is no use to fight the effeminaphobia in your home town, ‘cause it ain’t gonna get better. Your stifling little society is never gonna change because noone ever gets challenged nor called out for their blatant discrimination of LGBT people. The only way for you to make it get better for yourself, is to flee to a more accepting place where human civilisation has got a foot in the door.
2) Blaine wins the election that Kurt lost only last year:
If you’re able to hide your gay well enough, and the writers allign the stars in such a way that others practically hand the victory to you, then you can win a popularity contest without ever addressing the gay factor and it’s ugly past in that same high school. All it takes is to lose the bowtie and to ally yourself with your straight bro. Oh, and a dumb blonde cheerleader throwing herself under the bus.
Message: Straight passing gays have an easier life (unless they get outed: re. Karofsky) than femme gays and that’s how it should be. As long as you, that alpha gay, can keep up appearances, this double standard shouldn’t bother you (because hey: you’re the one profitting from it). Feel free to be gay, but don't shove it in other people's faces.
3) The beginning of the Blam friendship:
Straight guys bond better with masculine gay guys. Effeminate guys are tolerated and thankyouverymuchfortheclothes-andkeepingmysecret-andlettingmebunkatyourhouseforalmostayear, but sorry Kurt, you cannot be my bro because you like Broadway, Bravo and fashion.
And notice this very well: Glee now clearly uses the word “bro” to indicate a close male friendship, and not just as an other name for masculine jocks who bond in the locker room over football. That more shallow meaning of the word bro flew out the door in this episode, when the bonding of Sam and Blaine was described as being closer and cooler than Sam and Kurt’s friendship, which could not go to a further level because Sam did not understand Kurt’s interests.
So not being a bro is not simply defined by a guy preferring to hang out with the girls instead of the boys. Not being a bro means being shut out from a closer male friendship (bromance) because the real cool male friendship gets solely defined by shared interests on Glee, when friendship can be defined by a lot more than that.
Message: it’s perfectly fine to be flattered when you’re told that the straight guy considers you a better gay friend than your femme boyfriend because you hide that gay so well. When you’re an effeminate gay however, you can do all kinds of friendly deeds, but you can never ever reach the highest level of male friendship: bromance.

The main message Glee sends to LGBT viewers (and also to the straight audience) is the “It gets better” message, but with a nasty twist in it for effeminate gays:
Duck your head, try to blend in and if you don’t or can’t you’re doomed for now. But don’t fight the system: just wait till you get out and find more kindred spirits someplace else.
Kurt couldn’t duck his head, because of his effeminacy. He even refused to blend in, and oh boy: did he get punished for it. He fought the system in season 1, and got some (moral) victories out of it (that’s what made him so inspirational), but since then he just suffered from the system and stopped fighting it (masked as him taking the high road). Kurt took the kicks in the guts as a trooper, abided his time till he could literally flee to be free from the effeminate gay shackles,…. and finally found his recognition and acknowledgment in the gayest profession ever besides musical theatre.
Attaboy Kurt: stay in the pigeon hole RIB wrote you in, because even in liberal New York you cannot break free from your stereotype.

Blaine never needed to duck his head nor blend in at McKinley: his ability to pass did it for him, and the 3 things that made him stuck out and still depict him as gay (although everyone at McKinley conveniently ignored this for an entire season) were neatly and surgically removed by RIB from Blaine in this episode: the 3 B’s: Bowties, Broadway and Bravo (and the F from Fashion, but ‘the 3 B’s’ is so catchy, so duh). And it was Sam of all people who did it for them.
Sam suggested to lose the “Look I’m gay” give-away bowtie. Sam also said that Kurt loving Broadway, Bravo and fashion stopped him from becoming a bro, but with Sam and Blaine now it’s different ‘cause Blaine is cool. That was a solid retcon, because Blaine in canon loves Broadway, Bravo, and fashion too: see ‘the Substitute’ and Prom-A-Saurus'.
Blaine also never has to fight the system: RIB do it for him, by 1) never allowing Blaine to get slushied or bullied at McKinley; 2) making Blaine blind, deaf and mute whenever Kurt has a gay problem; but most importantly 3) Blaine never has to fight for his (popularity based) wins: the other characters simply hand them to him, and no awkward questions get asked.

Blaine is not and has never been an underdog: RIB carefully keep up the image that Blaine is the 'almost straight teenage dream’, and even narratively logic cannot touch that, which screws up the canon for himself and the other (LGBT) characters, making some of his storylines and Kurt's gay storylines illogic, unbelievable and invalid, or at least very twisted.
RIB never wanted to show the differences between the experiences of femme gays and alpha gays in high school (or they dropped it after WSS). RIB deliberately don’t go there, but instead they go out of their way to disconnect any similarities and to avoid any conflicts or comparisons between Kurt and Blaine,…. but they can’t resist giving Blaine what Kurt wanted and keeping Kurt isolated in his little effeminate box. So they keep up the pretence that Blaine’s good fortunes have got absolutely nothing to do or cannot be compared to Kurt’s losses.
What RIB is actually showing is that if it were up to them they would never acknowledge that one character’s storyline has got anything to do with the other’s. They want iTunes dreamboat Blaine to win everything, and they want gay posterboy Kurt to cry pretty tears for facing homophobia, but they don't want to tackle homophobic issues with Blaine involved in any way. It’s just so darn inconvenient for RIB that these boys are tied together by friendship, sexual orientation, location (till recently), circumstances and relationship.
So RIB ignore or try to hide that, which is their prerogative, but it results in very bad storytelling.


In this episode RIB also gave clear signals of exploring a Bram romance. If Brittana breaks up Brittany will most certainly date a guy again.
And with that little seed of Bram planted on top of the rest I just described, RIB managed in one single episode, with one big stroke, to erase and paint over all the homophobic problems at McKinley High and Lima that Kurt (and Santana) faced, probably never to revisit them again (unless they go there with Wade/Unique).
Why? Partly because the Lima part must be turned into High School Musical iTunes La-La-Land, but mainly because the real gay kid has left the building.
(real gay kids if you want to count Santana too)

It’s clever, I’ll give them that. But let’s not pretend that it depicts ‘reality’, that Kurt and Blaine's experiences are un-related, nor that Glee tackled and handled the homophobic and effeminaphobic issues they kept bringing up themselves properly, because they did not, and they’d be better off dropping them completely.

[Divalicious]

Oh man, what a great post, Glorfindel. Blaine dresses in short pants, with greased hair, he is on the smaller side, and he is considering a passing gay boy. Whatever. To me, Blaine seems effeminate as Kurt, his voice just is lower. He certainly is given the "female" pining role.

Funny thing is, if Blaine were not gay, and connected to Kurt, I don't think he would have burst on the scene as well as he did. Kurt's happiness put Teenage Dream over the top. The Beelzebub back up shot it into the sky. People embraced him because he made Kurt happy, not just because StarKids fans followed Darren. So now TPTB are in a bind, if he were heterosexual on the show, he would be used in triangles, but they already had triangles set, this could make him unlikeable, him being gay solved that, only one possible partner. Keep the fangirls happy? Yep, have him sing, and flirt, until he was actually with Kurt, then the gayness was "serious" and had to go away. When enough irate comments pile up, we would get a little something with Holiday Roommates, and let them have sex once, but then immediately go into lesbian bed death, because we don't want to offend the parents out there who think we are trying to convert their kids to being gay. Anything to not totally remind people that Blaine is supposed to be a gay character, and we know that heterosexual females DO NOT ROMANTICIZE gay guys. Do these people know any heterosexual females, because, like hell, we do.

Kurt, who fought and fought, and stood up for what made him happy never really won in Lima, not even male friends. Yes, having stuff in common helps people connect, but my two oldest friends and I have very little in common. One likes hiking, mountain climbing and woodworking. The other is a total Mom-caregiver, very nurturing, but with a lightning temper, used to paint, but not real hobbies since she had her son late in life. Me, I love to read, do crafts like sewing or knitting, watch movies, take care of my cats. Not a lot of cross over there, but we've been friends for 20 years. Which is why I don't buy the "I don't have stuff in common with Kurt, and while he's a nice guy, he will never be a bro crap." People can have friends that they admire, I would admire someone who respected me when I was poor, protected my privacy and sought to allieve (sp) it as best as he could. That is the basis for a good friendship right there, respect, not that we both can be perceived as a straight guy.

This pisses me off no end.

[BlueJazz]

Wow, i'm so sorry to read about the drama/fan war at GF. ((Hugs)) I guess i made the right decision when i decided to leave that place.

@Marie, please don't feel that you are obliged to stay there for Chris/kurt. It's really not good for your health. Plus, sometimes, i feel that defending Kurt's honor in general threads is simply a waste of time since some people will always find a way to bring you down no matter what you said. Given that the show is no longer good, it's just not worth it. I'm not asking you to leave GF but i hope you make your decision wisely. No matter what happened, you're always welcomed here.

[fantastica]

this week's song is so depressing. I didn't finish the "mine" song because I don't liek the song. the brochel duet is ok but boy is brody screaming! and scientist - kurt's one line is the best line (like that Madonna song - what it's called? I only listen to that one line). didn't even bother to listen to the 2 blaine songs. I know how not to aggrevate myself.

[brisallie]

^
Are you referring to Like a Prayer? His voice is angelical

[fantastica]

^ yes, i have trouble remembering names. thanx!

[Glorfindel]

Wow, i'm so sorry to read about the drama/fan war at GF. ((Hugs)) I guess i made the right decision when i decided to leave that place.

@Marie, please don't feel that you are obliged to stay there for Chris/kurt. It's really not good for your health. Plus, sometimes, i feel that defending Kurt's honor in general threads is simply a waste of time since some people will always find a way to bring you down no matter what you said. Given that the show is no longer good, it's just not worth it. I'm not asking you to leave GF but i hope you make your decision wisely. No matter what happened, you're always welcomed here.

Thanks for the moral support.
Yes, I need to stop with this since it's only getting me angry.


BTW: this is my final post in the episode thread over there and then I'm out.

[Ranwing]

Glorfindel... I'd give you a standing ovation if I could, but I'm at work now so it would probably look a little funny. This is the best I can do....



There is a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty going on in the arguements against your post, but that's pretty typical. If you point out something unfair or contradictory, they just insist that you're wrong or wanting to see what you want just so you have something to complain about. There's sometimes no use in arguing with these people because they just don't want to acknowledge that Kurt was ever judged unfairly and suffered as a result of that judgement, while Blaine gets more or less a free pass because he passes marginally better.

As far as the GF goes, I've been lurking there for a bit, but I have no interest in joining because they're at a stage where they're making TWOP look rational in comparison. I have my complaints about TWOP, but at least the mods don't have their own personal agendas to push and are being more or less fair with all posters. I don't mind discussing a topic with someone that might be critical of Kurt's behavior or storyline, and I certainly don't mind agreeing to disagree but the lack of respect for alternate viewpoints on the GF is pretty hard to stomach. Calling someone a complainer because they see something wrong and say so is nothing but disrespectful IMO.

Glad that I have you here (and on TWOP occasionally) because your posts are most certainly worth reading.

[ChrisColferFan1]

Glorfindel... I'd give you a standing ovation if I could, but I'm at work now so it would probably look a little funny. This is the best I can do....



There is a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty going on in the arguements against your post, but that's pretty typical. If you point out something unfair or contradictory, they just insist that you're wrong or wanting to see what you want just so you have something to complain about. There's sometimes no use in arguing with these people because they just don't want to acknowledge that Kurt was ever judged unfairly and suffered as a result of that judgement, while Blaine gets more or less a free pass because he passes marginally better.

As far as the GF goes, I've been lurking there for a bit, but I have no interest in joining because they're at a stage where they're making TWOP look rational in comparison. I have my complaints about TWOP, but at least the mods don't have their own personal agendas to push and are being more or less fair with all posters. I don't mind discussing a topic with someone that might be critical of Kurt's behavior or storyline, and I certainly don't mind agreeing to disagree but the lack of respect for alternate viewpoints on the GF is pretty hard to stomach. Calling someone a complainer because they see something wrong and say so is nothing but disrespectful IMO.

Glad that I have you here (and on TWOP occasionally) because your posts are most certainly worth reading.

Great post.

[Glorfindel]

[tanita_mors]

i see some people just need to have the last word.

[ColferInspired]

I was going to go in the Episode Thread on GF but I knew I would have lost it if I did.

It's no wonder people are leaving that forum in droves.

[CloveGlee]

I went away from the fandom during the hiatus. Not a bad decision. It was good to get some distance.

[ColferInspired]

Ya'll, please be careful, or the folks who lurk here and tattle to Travis will try to get us all banned from GleeForum. I still really need to be there.

[brisallie]

Agree. But if some us we're still there or other kurtsies are, we should be more careful. Though I still think people is free to comment respectively what they think.

[fantastica]

it's all about power gurl! power leads to abuse which leads to injustice.

[ColferInspired]

it's all about power gurl! power leads to abuse which leads to injustice.

[CloveGlee]

Not understanding my point?

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