Re: General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 1

[brisallie]

what i want for Kurt in zeazon 4:

Kurt meets SJP's character who turns out to be a vampire slayer in search of their next "The Chosen One". She tells Kurt that she intervened w/ the NYADA process so he wouldn't get in, so he can be recruited instead to be trained by her (she provides him w/ another NY college to go to instead - but the admission is totally fake). She introduces Kurt to the secret world of VS - an army of cool "undercats" who appear to be either weird or unusual during the day, but are absolutely stunning warriors by night fall. Their ultimately goal? find the Man W the Yellow Hat (the boss) and destroy him. SJP's appearance gives Kurt new meaning in life, but he's sworn to their secrecy and vows never to tell his family or Blaine. So starts kurt's apprenticeship w/ SJP to become the future leader of the VS.

Rachel goes to NYADA, and eventually meets the headmaster, the Man w The Yellow Hat. the headmaster tells her that he will groom her to be the next big star, and introduces a very handsome young man as her co-star. Rachel graduatlly forgets about Finn and all her old friends. Then one day she meets Kurt on the street of NY, and Kurt immediately notices that she is being possessed by evil spirit. Kurt tries to talk her out of NYADA but Rachel instead blames kurt for being jealous. Will Kurt save his friend and defeat the evil master? We will find out by the end of Zeazon 4.

Kim!!!! Your imagination is HUGE but I love it BTW this sounds so Buffy with HP lol

[fantastica]

I never watched Buffy!

Imaging Kurt slaying vampire w his si swords!

[CloveGlee]

Why the season three cliffhanger was a narrative disaster - weeks later and it STILL bugs! Here's the high points of the essay:



They set up a storyline: Kurt the underdog will not be able to succeed unless he can get an audience with an unbiased observer who evaluates his talent and potential without caring about his effeminate nature. Then he gets that audience, and he gets unqualified praise. And then... he fails anyway. Apparently, it was about his talent level after all. He really wasn't good enough, and this ultimate underdog is the only one left with no personal triumphs of any sort whatsoever over the course of his entire senior year.

There are two ways they could have fixed this narrative failure. If they had understood that Kurt was ultimately going to fail from the start, they could have weaved the implication that he was really going in the wrong direction into his storyline all year. That's what they successfully did with Finn. Furthermore, once this shattering final failure hit, Kurt needed to have his storyline resolved. We needed a moment to absorb the idea that his entire story was a complete misdirection, that the writers were misleading the audience in the direction they were taking him. There needed to be a moment of catharsis to absorb that blow. His failure needed to be seen as a major issue that the audience cared about and would be outraged about. Instead, Brad's script indicated that Kurt's failure was an acceptable speedbump in route to the payoff Brad actually expected the audience to embrace. Rachel did get into NYADA. That's supposed to be the happy ending, and Kurt's failure just isn't important enough to warrant a single line of condolence or grief. All of a sudden, he just does not matter at all, and his entire storyline for the year is a complete waste of time. We are left to wonder if Brad indeed thought the only issue of importance to the audience was whether Rachel would be lonely without her Best Gay in New York with her.

In a successful narrative, you must either follow through on the theme you've constructed, or provide some kind of resolution when the theme is subverted. The writers presented us with a box that was clearly marked a particular way, and then when opened, proved to be mislabeled. Then they refused to give us a narrative moment to deal with the misdirection and disappointment, suggesting that it just wasn't that important.

The whole thing is on my blog. http://recappersdelight.blogspot.com/2012/06/glee-finale-analysis-why-kurts-season.html

[sahhar]

Why the season three cliffhanger was a narrative disaster - weeks later and it STILL bugs! Here's the high points of the essay:



They set up a storyline: Kurt the underdog will not be able to succeed unless he can get an audience with an unbiased observer who evaluates his talent and potential without caring about his effeminate nature. Then he gets that audience, and he gets unqualified praise. And then... he fails anyway. Apparently, it was about his talent level after all. He really wasn't good enough, and this ultimate underdog is the only one left with no personal triumphs of any sort whatsoever over the course of his entire senior year.

There are two ways they could have fixed this narrative failure. If they had understood that Kurt was ultimately going to fail from the start, they could have weaved the implication that he was really going in the wrong direction into his storyline all year. That's what they successfully did with Finn. Furthermore, once this shattering final failure hit, Kurt needed to have his storyline resolved. We needed a moment to absorb the idea that his entire story was a complete misdirection, that the writers were misleading the audience in the direction they were taking him. There needed to be a moment of catharsis to absorb that blow. His failure needed to be seen as a major issue that the audience cared about and would be outraged about. Instead, Brad's script indicated that Kurt's failure was an acceptable speedbump in route to the payoff Brad actually expected the audience to embrace. Rachel did get into NYADA. That's supposed to be the happy ending, and Kurt's failure just isn't important enough to warrant a single line of condolence or grief. All of a sudden, he just does not matter at all, and his entire storyline for the year is a complete waste of time. We are left to wonder if Brad indeed thought the only issue of importance to the audience was whether Rachel would be lonely without her Best Gay in New York with her.

In a successful narrative, you must either follow through on the theme you've constructed, or provide some kind of resolution when the theme is subverted. The writers presented us with a box that was clearly marked a particular way, and then when opened, proved to be mislabeled. Then they refused to give us a narrative moment to deal with the misdirection and disappointment, suggesting that it just wasn't that important.

The whole thing is on my blog. http://recappersdelight.blogspot.com/2012/06/glee-finale-analysis-why-kurts-season.html

I read your entire blog and all I have to say is . That is all. Amazing Claire. Just. You explained everything so well.

[Emile]

Why the season three cliffhanger was a narrative disaster - weeks later and it STILL bugs! Here's the high points of the essay:



They set up a storyline: Kurt the underdog will not be able to succeed unless he can get an audience with an unbiased observer who evaluates his talent and potential without caring about his effeminate nature. Then he gets that audience, and he gets unqualified praise. And then... he fails anyway. Apparently, it was about his talent level after all. He really wasn't good enough, and this ultimate underdog is the only one left with no personal triumphs of any sort whatsoever over the course of his entire senior year.

There are two ways they could have fixed this narrative failure. If they had understood that Kurt was ultimately going to fail from the start, they could have weaved the implication that he was really going in the wrong direction into his storyline all year. That's what they successfully did with Finn. Furthermore, once this shattering final failure hit, Kurt needed to have his storyline resolved. We needed a moment to absorb the idea that his entire story was a complete misdirection, that the writers were misleading the audience in the direction they were taking him. There needed to be a moment of catharsis to absorb that blow. His failure needed to be seen as a major issue that the audience cared about and would be outraged about. Instead, Brad's script indicated that Kurt's failure was an acceptable speedbump in route to the payoff Brad actually expected the audience to embrace. Rachel did get into NYADA. That's supposed to be the happy ending, and Kurt's failure just isn't important enough to warrant a single line of condolence or grief. All of a sudden, he just does not matter at all, and his entire storyline for the year is a complete waste of time. We are left to wonder if Brad indeed thought the only issue of importance to the audience was whether Rachel would be lonely without her Best Gay in New York with her.

In a successful narrative, you must either follow through on the theme you've constructed, or provide some kind of resolution when the theme is subverted. The writers presented us with a box that was clearly marked a particular way, and then when opened, proved to be mislabeled. Then they refused to give us a narrative moment to deal with the misdirection and disappointment, suggesting that it just wasn't that important.

The whole thing is on my blog. http://recappersdelight.blogspot.com/2012/06/glee-finale-analysis-why-kurts-season.html

I read it all, and you summarized the whole situation perfectly.

A really well-written reason of why I should no longer watch this shit.

[BlueJazz]

Thanks for another great article, Claire I really hope lots of Glee-related people will get the chance to read it, especially the brainless writers.

[fantastica]

Showrunner Survey: Ryan Murphy
Finish this sentence: The hardest thing to pull off on a TV show is …
A season finale every year that feels like all of the threads of that season have been wrapped up or at least discussed. Heading toward the conclusion is a very important thing. Some seasons on both shows we’ve been better at it than others. With Horror Story, it’s very easy to do that because there’s a beginning, middle, and end. With Glee, it’s a little harder, but I loved our ending this year.

If you could let your kids watch a single episode of your work, which one would it be and why?
The one that comes to mind is the “Preggers” episode from Glee, where Kurt joins the football team, because I think that episode is about acceptance and tolerance and love, as sickening as that sounds. I was very proud of that and the reaction to it was so strong. I also love the episode this season, “The First Time,” about the gay couple and the straight couple losing their virginity in a very sweet way. That one was good.

.... more at source - Vulture

[Emile]

Showrunner Survey: Ryan Murphy
Finish this sentence: The hardest thing to pull off on a TV show is …
A season finale every year that feels like all of the threads of that season have been wrapped up or at least discussed. Heading toward the conclusion is a very important thing. Some seasons on both shows we’ve been better at it than others. With Horror Story, it’s very easy to do that because there’s a beginning, middle, and end. With Glee, it’s a little harder, but I loved our ending this year.

...

[BlueJazz]

^ Yeah, of course you LOVE the ending of your shitty show that lots of people dislike, Ryan That's probably why we all don't like you at all

[valkeakuulas]

I don't know if he is serious at all. He must know that Kurt fans were pissed off and still he says a thing like that. I would try to avoid the subject of the final episode as much as I could. Is he more loyal to Brad as a writer or to his show? And that Preggers and First Time comment: It's not a salvation for him, a petty unnderhanded "gift" to give us Kurtsies.

If he loves Kurt SO MUCH why not say anything, anything at all about atrocious treatment of a loved character. I'm really wishing that he will admit he's now only commercially interested in Glee and Kurt.

[Divalicious]

Ryan loved the ending because he sees Lea, not Rachel. I think he sees Lea as his daughter of sorts, and like any proud parent he wants to see her succeed. Chris, he knows, has drive and talent and at this point is going to succeed with his support or not, and I think that is how he sees Kurt. Therefore Rachel needs him, he supports her, Kurt doesn't, and gets ignored. So Chris is the straight A child who doesn't get help with his homework because he doesn't need it, and Lea is more dependent, and he has to help her.

I think with the season 2 backlash on Kurt's character, he felt he had to decrease the impact Kurt had in storylines. Sure, he gave him scenes to act, but in the end few of them meant anything. He then focuses on his less controversial good actor, Lea. I do hope that he realizes that he went a little too far in his adulation of his child, and looks at the other kids he's been ignoring. Lea is a star, but she isn't the only one.

I do think a lot of seasons 3 bending over backwards to make Rachel's life heaven on earth is to placate the her fans when she does have a hard time in season 4. But will the hard time last, will Rachel finally have to fight and fight to be noticed. Or will it last a few episodes and go away after the entire school body is entranced by her talent? Make me care about her journey, Ryan, not expect her to win at just about everything. That is a fantasy, and Glee has a hard time with blending comedy and drama to add another genre.

[valkeakuulas]

Ryan loved the ending because he sees Lea, not Rachel. I think he sees Lea as his daughter of sorts, and like any proud parent he wants to see her succeed. Chris, he knows, has drive and talent and at this point is going to succeed with his support or not, and I think that is how he sees Kurt. Therefore Rachel needs him, he supports her, Kurt doesn't, and gets ignored. So Chris is the straight A child who doesn't get help with his homework because he doesn't need it, and Lea is more dependent, and he has to help her.

I think with the season 2 backlash on Kurt's character, he felt he had to decrease the impact Kurt had in storylines. Sure, he gave him scenes to act, but in the end few of them meant anything. He then focuses on his less controversial good actor, Lea. I do hope that he realizes that he went a little too far in his adulation of his child, and looks at the other kids he's been ignoring. Lea is a star, but she isn't the only one.

I love your comparison, that's how it goes in real life and why not in Glee BTS world as well. If Chris would be bigger star he might have even had a temper tantrum over something entirely off the issue to rebel against the parent that is putting the other one up on a pedestal. But yeah, this vision makes Ryan's world funnier and more acceptable. I'll steal this from you for my own head.

[Shinra17]

I don't know if he is serious at all. He must know that Kurt fans were pissed off and still he says a thing like that.

Maybe his big pleasure is to piss fans...

Ryan loved the ending because he sees Lea, not Rachel.

lol, that's why I dislike it so much, me too, I saw Lea, trying hard for the emmys and not Rachel.

[tanita_mors]

I think they have been trying to get Lea her Emmy submission desperately this year, but sadly for her, I think she is totally off the voters radar and there is a huge competition in her category without her as it is.

[Glorfindel]

Yeah, they clearly went for the Emmy bait for Lea this year. They just didn't need to trash Kurt and undermine Chris's chances for an Emmy in the process.

A good father loves his children equally.


God I hate Ryan Murphy. He loved this year's ending. Good grief.
Someone should shake some sense into RIB till their teeth rattle.

[Delight]

@Divalicious, I like your perception of RM being a parent of sorts to Lea and Chris. He did mention before that he liked both of them and wanted to do what he could to help further their careers.

Chris/Kurt had his moment to shine in a big way in season 2. We have to admit that despite how badly the bullying storyline concluded in the end, it was the bullying storyline on Glee and Chris's remarkable acting that earned him that position in TIME's '100 Most Influential'.

RM may have decided Season 3 was Lea/Rachel's turn to shine, and this time they've put her big episodes at the end of the season. Rachel as a character hadn't had much good material/dramatic moments at all (not unless you count Finchel drama) until Choke and the finale. But their attempt was a failure, I think (At least, as a non-Rachel stan, I'm not all that moved by her 'woe is me' drama). I could be proven wrong. We'll see if Lea gets nominated.

I think with the season 2 backlash on Kurt's character, he felt he had to decrease the impact Kurt had in storylines.

Ah yes, and how did the decision to cut down Kurt's importance and use him to prop up other characters (such as Blaine, Brittany, Rachel, Karofsky) pan out? The blindness of the show's writers to such matters is staggering. But of course, we also have to admit that the mishandling of Kurt isn't the only thing about Glee that is responsible for the drop in ratings and viewership. There are too many things messing the show up, and the destruction of Kurt isn't the only problem that Glee has to fix to get people interested in the show again.

[valkeakuulas]

RM may have decided Season 3 was Lea/Rachel's turn to shine, and this time they've put her big episodes at the end of the season. Rachel as a character hadn't had much good material/dramatic moments at all (not unless you count Finchel drama) until Choke and the finale. But their attempt was a failure, I think (At least, as a non-Rachel stan, I'm not all that moved by her 'woe is me' drama). I could be proven wrong. We'll see if Lea gets nominated.

Ah yes, and how did the decision to cut down Kurt's importance and use him to prop up other characters (such as Blaine, Brittany, Rachel, Karofsky) pan out? The blindness of the show's writers to such matters is staggering. But of course, we also have to admit that the mishandling of Kurt isn't the only thing about Glee that is responsible for the drop in ratings and viewership. There are too many things messing the show up, and the destruction of Kurt isn't the only problem that Glee has to fix to get people interested in the show again.

This made me start to think what excatly were Rachels big story arcs from season 1 and 2. Was she just aiming to get Finn and become a star? Funny how I can remember what Kurts main story lines were but Rachels have become a blur and I liked Rachel very much in S1 and S2 and for a little time at the beginning of S3. She actually hasn't had a proper story has she? She hasn't aimed to be a prom queen, cheerio, mathlete etc. I know how she works her butt off to be a STAR, but that is a quite abstract consept to strive for storyline wise. She does not have to strive for the lead singer part because Schester garanteed that to her without a fight.

[BlueJazz]

^I remember that she quit ND after she didn't get the lead female part , she was never hesitant to demonstrate "the right way to sing" in front of the club (Endless Love) and she became the leader when nobody wanted the job back in S1. Then, in S2, all I remember is she sent Sunshine into crack house and gave VA a great singer, then she pined over Finn for a long time after the break-up and wrote the originals song, "Get it right" in Sectionals and she kinda sabotaged their chance at winning Nationals by making out with her bf right after a "earth shattering" duet in front of the audiences.

I'd say she did work hard to help ND but also damaged the club more than 1 time. As for the lead singer part, do the silent protest (in S2) and quitting the club considered as "striving" ? I remember that's all she did whenever Mr Shue didn't let her have her way.

[Shinra17]

This made me start to think what excatly were Rachels big story arcs from season 1 and 2. Was she just aiming to get Finn and become a star? Funny how I can remember what Kurts main story lines were but Rachels have become a blur and I liked Rachel very much in S1 and S2 and for a little time at the beginning of S3. She actually hasn't had a proper story has she? She hasn't aimed to be a prom queen, cheerio, mathlete etc. I know how she works her butt off to be a STAR, but that is a quite abstract consept to strive for storyline wise. She does not have to strive for the lead singer part because Schester garanteed that to her without a fight.

You're not alone. Quinn's eviction from her home by her parents and Rachel's discovery of the identity of her mother and their following meeting should have been some quite heavy dramatic arc for both of them but most of the reviews I read at that time were all "kurt and Burt are the beating heart of glee/provide the emotional punch as usual". Basically, they were overshadowed by Kurt SL and pushed out of the radar then already. No wonder they are blurry now lol.

[Buenos]

Rachel has no "arc" to speak of at this point. She is the future star who will get both fame and true love, and the show will go back and forth on her "sacrifices", ie Rachel woes, tears, and romantic mishaps. That could be interesting if there was any actual tension in her perhaps not getting any of goals, but the whole prom queen/nationals solos/NYADA was essentially the show giving her a blowjob and expecting viewers to be worried about her. Epic fail. Kurt is the character with actual hurdles and obstacles, but the show adds the failures on him because they are addicted to their Kurt pretty pain porn.

The hubris is in their not recognizing that it's Chris acting that makes the role, not their shitty writing that his acting is always pulling their asses out of the mess they create. Chris made something credible out of the NYADA crap and the Karfsky disaster. You notice nobody ever bitches about Chris' acting in those scenes.

[BlueJazz]

You're not alone. Quinn's eviction from her home by her parents and Rachel's discovery of the identity of her mother and their following meeting should have been some quite heavy dramatic arc for both of them but most of the reviews I read at that time were all "kurt and Burt are the beating heart of glee/provide the emotional punch as usual". Basically, they were overshadowed by Kurt SL and pushed out of the radar then already. No wonder they are blurry now lol.

Well, we all know it's really HARD to top Kurt/Burt scenes on Glee Long Live Kurt/Burt

Since it's hiatus and the spoilers are extremely unreliable, I propose that we play a "Glee game" to shake things up. I'll start first.

First character that you liked:Kurt Hummel (till the end of Glee)
Characters that you didn't like at first but started to grow on you after some time : Lauren, S2 Santana & S1 Blaine (introduced by Kim )
Characters that you hate: S3 Blaine, Sebastian, S3 Brittany, Warblers, Terri, Pavorrati (that evil bird who brought us Klaine )
Best platonic relationships : Kurt/Burt, Unholy Trinity, Kurt/Sue, Kurt/Mercedes, Mercedes/Tots, Brittany/Lord Tubbington
Worst platonic relationships : Pezberry, Blaine/all ND guys besides Klaine, Will/Kurt
Romantic pairings which you can't stand: Klaine, Finchel, Samcedes
Romantic pairings which you like: Puck/Lauren
Most memorable musical performances: I wanna hold your hand, Bohemian Rhapsody
Most WTF musical performances: Bills x 3, Cell Block Tango
Best moment in each season : S1- Kurt/Burt conversation after he blew the high F in Defying Gravity
S2- "Eat your heart out, Kate Middleton"
S3- Kurt/Burt conversation after Kurt became a NYADA finalist

Worst moment in each season : S1 - "Poker Face" performance
S2- When it's revealed that Quinn's big plan is cutting her hair in finale
S3- "I didn't get in"
Favorite casts besides Chris : Mike, Max, Jane, Dianna
Least favorite casts : Hobbit clown

[brisallie]

I like this game Blue but I have to rewatch some episodes to organize my answers.

Favorite casts besides Chris : Mike, Max, Jane, Dianna

Who Mike? Isn't Harry Shum?

Worst moment in each season : S1 - "Poker Face" performance
S2- When it's revealed that Quinn's big plan is cutting her hair in finale
S3- "I didn't get in"

S1-That NOT a song to be sung by a mother and daughter o.o
S2- Once I found on internet the script from that episode and the original plan was different but at the end they had problems with the time. How stupid.
S3- I need to add sth? Is my choice too.

[tanita_mors]

First character that you liked: Kurt Hummel
Characters that you didn't like at first but started to grow on you after some time : Lauren, Artie, Quinn, Puck, Azimio,
Characters that you hate: Blaine, Brittany, Santana, Will,
Best platonic relationships : Kurt/Burt, Furt, Kurt/Sue, Kurt/Mercedes, Kurt/Rachel (I'm still holding on, will see how long), Brittany/Lord Tubbington, Kurt/Sam,
Worst platonic relationships : Pezberry, Faberry, Finntana, Blaine/all ND guys besides Klaine, Will/Kurt
Romantic pairings which you can't stand: Klaine, Finchel, Brittana, Wemma, and pretty much ever other canon ship on the show
Romantic pairings which you like: Barole
Most memorable musical performances: Don't Rain on My Parade, Don't Stop Believing, I wanna hold your hand, Bohemian Rhapsody, As If I Never Said Goodbye, I'm The Greatest Star, Not The Boy Next Door, Rumor Has It / Somebody Like You, Get Happy mashup,
Most WTF musical performances: Boyfriend song from Prom season 2,
Best moment in each season :
S1- Every single Burt moment - can't really pick and don't make me
S2- Kurt meeting Blaine (I know, I know, but it is a great moment), the ending of GC with his dad in the hospital, Kurt Hummel is back at McKenley, ...
S3- Music of the Night/ Not The Boy Next Door, Romeo & Juliet (the scene is brutal and I just love it to pieces)

Worst moment in each season :
S1 - Terry deciding to lie to Will about the baby and starting the horror of Babygate
S2 - Will in Rocky Horror, and Kurt losing his competitions (Regionals and Nationals)
S3 - "I didn't get in"

Favorite casts besides Chris : everyone else
Least favorite casts : Naya, Darren,

[Shinra17]

Favorite casts besides Chris : Mike, Max, Jane, Dianna

Who Mike? Isn't Harry Shum?

No, he's the actor who plays the role of kurt's father, his full name is Mike O'Malley

-----------------------------------
quickly (= without much thoughts):

First character that you liked: Kurt
Characters that you didn't like at first but started to grow on you after some time : Karofsky
Characters that you hate: blaine, sebastian, the pervert reporter (don't remember his name), lauren and half of the time rachel
Best platonic relationships : kurt/burt, quinn/santana, puck/becky
Worst platonic relationships : klaine
Romantic pairings which you can't stand: klaine, wemma
Romantic pairings which you like: burt/carole, samcedes
Most memorable musical performances: IWTHYH, rose's turn
Most WTF musical performances: fighter
Best moment in each season :
S1- kurt audition for the football team
S2- IWTHYH
S3- kurtosfky at the hospital

Worst moment in each season :
S1 -rachel telling finn who's the real father of quinn's baby and acting like a victim when finn fled ND by overreaction
S2- finchel spying on sam at the motel, hidden in their car like 2 paparazzis
S3- the car park scene with klaine/ rachel getting in nyada
Favorite casts besides Chris : Mike, Romy, Max
Least favorite casts : lea, DC, MM.

[brisallie]

Favorite casts besides Chris : Mike, Max, Jane, Dianna

Who Mike? Isn't Harry Shum?

No, he's the actor who plays the role of kurt's father, his full name is Mike O'Malley

What a shame!!! How is possible that I forgot his name? Thx Shinra Sometimes I forget the names of the adult cast.

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