Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 1

[fantastica]

bring it on! I need some good refreshment.

[Delight]

Whoa, a lot of discussion had happened overnight with regards to the tone and purpose of this forum.

I'm happy to see that it is sort of settled, for the moment. I'm all for limiting the snarky comments to this thread, but yes, that can get a bit tricky when we start posting on multiple threads. It's easy to lose track sometimes.

And I also agree that once Glee detaches Blaine/Darren from Kurt/Chris, we would have little to no inclination to talk about Blaine/Darren here. Just like we don't appreciate it when Klainers swamped the KHAT and made everything about KurtandBlaine instead of just Kurt, I don't think we're all that keen to have Blaine/Darren dominating the discussions here if we can help it. Not because negative comments about Blaine/Darren aren't allowed here, but because he's seriously not worth so much time and consideration from dedicated Kurt/Chris fans.

But until Glee splits Klaine up, there will inevitably be some voiced disgruntlement in this thread.

I don't like Darren, and I think a lot of the criticism is true. I think the blind item is true too. I think it's disgusting and it's one of the reasons I have trouble tolerating Darren on Glee. Same for Naya and her writer.
And I don't mind talking about that here, in the snark and bark thread, or in some other gossiping thread on this forum. It's a relief to talk about the blind item or other things that bother us. I think that is what is lacking over at Glee Forum: a negative thread to vent.

Um, what blind item? I feel like I should know this, but I don't. Is it another rumour about Ryan Murphy and Darren?

[fantastica]

^ I have only seen ONE blind item about RM and DC. I think that's the one we are all talking about.

[Jellyrolls]

It seems to me allowing those things turn you right back into what you got away from - the KHAT If you want a Glee Forum, go back to GF and post there. They have all those appreciation threads and you can still post there whenever you want, which many of you do. I was tired of being blitzed for expressing an opinion some did not like and were very vocal about. I will NOT do that again. All respect to Marie and her very knowledgeable singing information, but what she is saying here sounds exactly like what she wants the KHAT to be - and this was not set up for that purpose. This is not about Glee - or ships - and I do not see the need for a Klaine thread. We have done fine without it so far. But, as I said, it is not my forum and you will do what is best for the majority.

OK, just to be clear here:

The reason this board was started was so that we could freely have open discussions about characters related to Kurt without Darren/Blaine fans coming in to complain and shut down our discussions. Those types of discussions will always be allowed within the threads like the spoiler thread and the episode discussion thread where we are openly discussing the show. I don't think the negative Blaine/Darren comments belong on threads like the appreciation thread or non-Glee threads like the SBL or LOS threads.

What my point in the conversation last night was is that from time to time, if disscussions start getting extensive, they may be moved to snark and bark. I'm not saying you can't have a discussion. What I'm saying is out of respect for the posters who come here to talk about Chris, this type of posting may be moved to Snark & Bark so that people who don't want to read long negative discussions can still participate on the threads. That's why this thread was created. So, I'm not planning on stopping any discussions, they just may be moved to snark and bark from time to time. For the record, there has only been one or two I thought should be moved so far, so it's not a lot. I'll be clear when I do it so we call understand.

A good example of the type of discussion that would be moved would be the discussion about Darren that took place on the appreciation thread after 8. That discussion was out of place on the appreciation thread. Snark & bark would have been a much better place for it.

One thing that we all need to remember is that with the freedom on this board, we all also have to take some responsibility too. Just because we can are allowed to be openly critical of Darren and Blaine, it doesn't mean we have to bring him into every discussion or use him as an insult on threads just because we can. There is a difference between being critical and unnecessarily bashing. I don't want to see this board turn into an I hate Blaine/Darren (or anyone else) board.

Bottom line is, this is a board to celebrate Chris and his work first and foremost, and I think that's why most of us are here.

[Shinra17]

But you know that everybody ends up reading this thread...

Personally, when I don't like sth, I overlook it (and there was a big discussion in another thread about how a kid struggling with his own sexuality ends up being a representation of domestic violence that I prefered to ignore) but I guess everybody is different and some people just can't do it.

[Jellyrolls]

But you know that everybody ends up reading this thread...

Personally, when I don't like sth, I overlook it (and there was a big discussion in another thread about how a kid struggling with his own sexuality ends up being a representation of domestic violence that I prefered to ignore) but I guess everybody is different and some people just can't do it.

Oh, absolutely, people can just ignore things that bug them too. That's fine. I ignore some things too.

I think we just have the tendency to get out of hand when we have freedom (I'm guilty of this).

I guess what I'm asking is that we make sure we keep this a positive Chris board, and not let our Darren/Blaine comments run amuck on the board.

Personally, I can't wait for Klaine to break up so Darren/Blaine becomes irrelevant to us.

[Glorfindel]

OK - I will say this honestly. I came here because it is a CHRIS COLFER Fan Forum, not a Blaine, Klaine or Darren forum. If you start bringing that stuff here, it will lead to problems. I don't want him here, anyone more than I want Rachel Thread or a Mercedes Thread. Selfish, yes! We speak of those characters because they are part of his stories, but they are NOT my focus. It is not my forum so you can do what you wish, but at that point I leave. Not a threat, just stating my opinion.

That is selfish, yes.
I'm not a Klainer, I wish Klaine would break up yesterday, so I have no interest in this whatsoever. But I'm a Hummelberry, and if Rachel and Kurt move to New York together I see no harm in having a Hummelberry thread, although I won't be starting it.
I think someone like you would actually prefer having a seperate thread for Klaine or Hummelberry, because then you can avoid seeing too many screenpics, gifs or discussions about them on the other threads. All you'd have to do is not click on the link to those 'shipper' threads.
And I think our moderators are more than capable of controlling and kicking anyone out who does not appreciate Kurt/Chris or wants to convert us into Klainers.

The mods of GF made a lot of mistakes when monitoring and moderating the KHAT. GF is a flawed forum, it limited our freedom of speech. And I don't think the mods here will make those same mistakes. But the dislike for the modus operandi over on GF should not lead to making all kind of different mistakes here. And one of them would be to not respect what other people like about Kurt, not allowing them their freedom of speech on a Chris Colfer fan forum.
If this is to remain a playground only for Chris Colfer fans who dislike Blaine, fine, but then I don't want to post here much. Then I'd rather "work" to revive the KHAT again, just as Karen and Shinra are "working" to keep this forum afloat. And that can be fun, yes.

OK, just to be clear here:

The reason this board was started was so that we could freely have open discussions about characters related to Kurt without Darren/Blaine fans coming in to complain and shut down our discussions. Those types of discussions will always be allowed within the threads like the spoiler thread and the episode discussion thread where we are openly discussing the show. I don't think the negative Blaine/Darren comments belong on threads like the appreciation thread or non-Glee threads like the SBL or LOS threads.

What my point in the conversation last night was is that from time to time, if disscussions start getting extensive, they may be moved to snark and bark. I'm not saying you can't have a discussion. What I'm saying is out of respect for the posters who come here to talk about Chris, this type of posting may be moved to Snark & Bark so that people who don't want to read long negative discussions can still participate on the threads. That's why this thread was created. So, I'm not planning on stopping any discussions, they just may be moved to snark and bark from time to time. For the record, there has only been one or two I thought should be moved so far, so it's not a lot. I'll be clear when I do it so we call understand.

A good example of the type of discussion that would be moved would be the discussion about Darren that took place on the appreciation thread after 8. That discussion was out of place on the appreciation thread. Snark & bark would have been a much better place for it.

One thing that we all need to remember is that with the freedom on this board, we all also have to take some responsibility too. Just because we can are allowed to be openly critical of Darren and Blaine, it doesn't mean we have to bring him into every discussion or use him as an insult on threads just because we can. There is a difference between being critical and unnecessarily bashing. I don't want to see this board turn into an I hate Blaine/Darren (or anyone else) board.

Bottom line is, this is a board to celebrate Chris and his work first and foremost, and I think that's why most of us are here.

Thanks for you posts, Karen. Basically this is all I'm asking. Especially this:

I guess what I'm asking is that we make sure we keep this a positive Chris board, and not let our Darren/Blaine comments run amuck on the board.

I don't want people to stop discussing Blaine/Klaine or Darren in other threads, on the contrary.
All I ask is some common courtesy.

Maybe this explains it:
Over on ONTD_Glee they've posted my 'Michael' review today. Now, I don't mind them doing that, I'm flattered actually, but 2 things bother me about that:
1) Out of everything I said in that review they picked 2 negative lines about Darren's singing, and they highlighted them to make fun of Darren. And I dislike that.
I stand behind every word I wrote in that review, but I didn't make it to have others take one negative thing out without any counterbalance of something positive I wrote or my explanation why I gave that criticism, only to bash an actor/singer, even when he 'deserves' the criticism. I hate that they did that with my review. Taking fair criticism out of context just to mock someone is below my standards.
2) There are many positive comments on that review on ONTD_Glee, only a few somewhat critical ones. But there is one very negative comment: someone questioning if I'm legit, and calling me a homophobe and an effemiphobe. And that hurts, because I know it isn't true. And others might believe what that poster said about me. These things stick: one negative comment outways 100 positive ones, that's how it works for most humans.

What I'm trying to say is: I know what it's like to be on the other side, to have quotes taken out of context and to be accused for being something I'm not. So be careful with what you say: do not unto others.....

[Guest]

By having all these other threads, you simply become another Glee Forum. And Marie, that seems to be what you want. You want that plus reasonable mods. You have a right to you opinion. You can easily appreciate Chris and his story line without having a zillion threads to do it. As I said, it is not my forum. I can certainly look elsewhere.

[ColferGirl]

By having all these other threads, you simply become another Glee Forum. And Marie, that seems to be what you want. You want that plus reasonable mods. You have a right to you opinion. You can easily appreciate Chris and his story line without having a zillion threads to do it. As I said, it is not my forum. I can certainly look elsewhere.

I disagree. Even if you made Hummelberry threads, or a Klaine thread, etc., it's not the same as a GleeForum. Because this forum still primarily centers around Chris, and thus it makes sense to me that only Chris or Kurt related threads would be made. Like, it doesn't make sense to me to make a Lea Michelle Appreciation Thread here - you wouldn't make one on Porcelain_fans either. But a Hummelberry thread, or Chris/Lea thread, that seems perfectly all right, because then Chris and Kurt are still involved and the discussion would half center on them.

And Marie - I saw that too, on ontd_glee, the comment about you being effiminophobic. I'm sorry.

[Shinra17]

The mods of GF made a lot of mistakes when monitoring and moderating the KHAT. GF is a flawed forum, it limited our freedom of speech. And I don't think the mods here will make those same mistakes. But the dislike for the modus operandi over on GF should not lead to making all kind of different mistakes here. And one of them would be to not respect what other people like about Kurt, not allowing them their freedom of speech on a Chris Colfer fan forum.
If this is to remain a playground only for Chris Colfer fans who dislike Blaine, fine, but then I don't want to post here much. Then I'd rather "work" to revive the KHAT again, just as Karen and Shinra are "working" to keep this forum afloat. And that can be fun, yes.

Sorry Marie, I don't see what you're talking about with this line. There are people who like DC, there are people who are indifferent to him, there are people who dislike him and there are people who can't stand him. All these different kind of people can express themselves on this board. We have never prevented anyone to say positive things about him, and with good reason, nobody tried . Some others gave more nuanced views (Cloveglee, Tanita), they were not asked to shup up.
What I saw yesterday is that one group was asked to moderated himself for another one to feel at ease. It's basically the same thing that happened on GF, with the klainers wanting to be "respected" in the KHAT. People who are the most virulent against him here don't ask anybody to share their opinion. People who disagree with it can express themselves or ignore these opinions, they don't have to ask the formers to stop. This is not respect, this is imposing their own feeling. It is even more out of place when the people who complain don't contribute to the board and just express themselves to play the victim.
Right now, the people who are the most active on the board rather belong to the last group, it's only natural that the overall tone of the board reflects that. Things will change or not, depending on the contribution of the members.

[fantastica]

Carrie honey calm down. Its really no big deal. U can snark all u want here. If the mods think we r getting overheated in other threads they can move us here and there's nothing required on our part.

This forum is not GF and never will be. Soon SBL and the book r coming out and Chris will gain a ton of new fans who do not watch glee and may never like glee. We want to provide a welcoming environment to all Chris fans. We dont want to tell people they cannot say or ship anything. But we try to respect others by ke.eping potentially offensive remarks in this thread. After all we are all different. Its what makes a community diverse and fun. Now for people who cant take the negativity but insists on reading this thread anyway, its their mistake. They should stay out of here and if they have issues w other threads they can report to the mods privately

I hope u will stick around. I need a playmate.

[Shinra17]

But there is one very negative comment: someone questioning if I'm legit, and calling me a homophobe and an effemiphobe.

I haven't seen that one but when a comment reaches this level of absurdity, it kind of self-destructs in my mind.

[fantastica]

But there is one very negative comment: someone questioning if I'm legit, and calling me a homophobe and an effemiphobe.

Ok Marie: you may not realize that but now you are a "celebrity" in the glee fandom. You are much better known than the infamous GleeAddict because even non-Kurt fans know you now. And as a celebrity, like any other public figures (including CC and DC etc.) you are subject to careless irresponsible remarks by people who don't know you and don't care about you. It's sad but true. I am sure you don't want to be a celebrity in that sense, and neither does Chris, but you are both in this position simply becaues you are widely known. Chris was clearly very frustrated in the first couple of years on Glee about all the hate he got, but now I think they just roll off his back because he clearly has learned to accept them as an unavoidable side effect of his celebrity status. and Marie, I hope you realize that there's nothing you can do to stop a few people from making negative comments about you or your work. Just ignore them and continue on w/ your fabulous reviews!

p.s. I was typing on my tablet that auto-corrects and it kept on changing "mods" to "moss".

and one more thing, reflecting on what happened on this thread for the last couple of days, we have more personalities on this board than most characters on Glee!

[tanita_mors]

Marie, to any hater you may have you can say just two little words : FUCK YOU.

As for this discussion that seams to go on forever and I'm now feeling compelled to contribute - I see this tread as our venting station - anyone is a viable target and there are virtually no limits. Snark and bark central.

Every other tread is for discussions that should be on topic (except when Kim and Carrie go crazy and start one of their never ending post wars ). Discussion means positive and negative but with certain limitation about propriety. When those limitations are crossed the mods can move then discussion to snark and bark. They are the mods, it's their call.

As I said before, there isn't a lot of thing that will rattle me or make me leave a place I like to visit - that is why I post on 3 different Glee forums and visit ONTD daily.

[fantastica]

Every other tread is for discussions that should be on topic (except when Kim and Carrie go crazy and start one of their never ending post wars ).

I take that as a compliment Ivana.

[Glorfindel]

@Shinra, I was responding to @Carousel for not wanting a Klaine thread here, not to what the moderators think about that. I know you and Karen are fine with people talking positive about Klaine.

By having all these other threads, you simply become another Glee Forum. And Marie, that seems to be what you want. You want that plus reasonable mods. You have a right to you opinion. You can easily appreciate Chris and his story line without having a zillion threads to do it. As I said, it is not my forum. I can certainly look elsewhere.

What all other threads? A Klaine thread? A Hummelberry thread? A Furt or Hudson-Hummel thread?
That would be about it, I think. All threads directly related to Kurt Hummel and the most important people in his life.
Remember: I personally don't want those threads, but I see no reason why others would not be given the freedom of doing so if they want that. It's not like I want a Rachel thread or an Artie thread. Kurt Hummel related threads =/= Glee forum.
We have a Kurt Hummel outfits thread and a Kurt's singing voice thread, so why not Kurt Hummel+someone-very-important-in-his-life threads?
As I said: it would only benefit those forum-members like you who don't want to be reminded of Klaine: the general threads would be less about Blaine in Kurt's life, and in the Klaine thread people can flail over Klaine without having to wade through all the negativity all the time. It would be a win-win situation for everyone. That's the main reason we have threads like the KHAT over on GF, untill that courtesy code got violated.

Whatever:
This forum was specifically created by and for people who want total freedom of speech, because that was taken away from them on GF. Great, and thank you Karen and Shinra for all your work.
I just thought that after a few weeks of bottled up and well-deserved venting and bashing of Blaine, Klaine and Darren, it would settle down to a mere grumble. But so far it hasn't, and I believe that without a wake-up call as I tried to give, that venom will only fester and become the modus operandi here.

I think where it boils down to is that right now this forum seems to cater to your (@Carousel) needs more than mine, so you can have it. You are a more frequent and vocal poster than I am and the others don't want to lose you.
As Ivana I have different forums for different needs. Right now I only visit this forum because I miss talking to the Kurtsies who left the KHAT for good, but I don't like the general atmosphere here. So I guess till that changes, and that probably won't happen untill Klaine does break up, I will just try to take care of the Kurt's singing voice thread, and only post here to be with 'old' friends, or to participate in some snark and bark in this thread.

Because, despite of what you might think, I do not want to surpress anyone's negative feelings for Blaine/Klaine/Darren, and that includes mine. I just don't want it in my face all the time.
Although I must say that I find it a bit ridiculous that a big part of the atmosphere on a Chris Colfer fan forum depends on whether or not his character will break up with his boyfriend or not.

[Jellyrolls]

OK everyone. Step away from your keyboards now. Let's not blow things out of proportion here.

I'm about to respond to all this, but I would appreciate if everyone can just take a step back and cool off for a half hour rather than banter back and forth endlessly right now.

Let me speak my piece so you can all understand where I'm coming from as the administrator of this board because us fighting amongst ourselves about what the intention of this board is is not really OK with me.

So please, give me time to respond at this point rather than arguing.

[fantastica]

Because, despite of what you might think, I do not want to surpress anyone's negative feelings for Blaine/Klaine/Darren, and that includes mine. I just don't want it in my face all the time.
Although I must say that I find it a bit ridiculous that a big part of the atmosphere on a Chris Colfer fan forum depends on whether or not his character will break up with his boyfriend or not.

I don't think it's possible or constructive to tell people to tone things down if they feel very strongly about things. The best thing to do is avoid the snark thread when it's too much for you. I believe it's the ony way to accomodate EVERYBODY.

about CC fan's happiness depending on klaine breakup - yes it IS ridiculous but when you think why so many people feel that way there's got to be a good reason(s). right now i don't want to think about hte reasons because my brain hurts.

[Jellyrolls]

OK, here goes.

When I started this forum, I named it the Chris Colfer Fan Forum. To me, that means that anyone who is a fan of Chris is welcome to join and participate on this forum, than includes Hummelberry fans, Klaine fans, Carson fans, Land of Story fans, or whatever other type of fan Chris may have now or in the future (if this board survives). Anyone who loves and admires Chris for any of his work will always be welcome to participate here.

It was never my intention that this was a forum for only Chris fans who don't like Blaine or Darren. It was my intention to start a board where we could openly discuss our thoughts on any character without fans of the other character coming in to complain about our discussions and shut down our discussions.

And if we have people join us who want to start a Klaine thread, or a Hummelberry thread or any other Kurt & character related to Kurt thread, they are free to do so as long it is not used to bash Chris. Klaine, Hummelberry, Furt, etc. are all Kurt related, and that makes them Chris related. What won't happen on this board is fans of another character trying to stop discussions of their other favorite character just because people are being negative.

And it is my intention to continue to allow critical discussion of Blaine and Darren (or any other character) as it relates to Chris. I have not said that discussions about Blaine and Darren (or any other character) will be shut down or not allowed. All's I have said is that if discussions get a bit out of hand, they will be moved to snark and bark.

It bothers me that Marie and Joann don't feel that they can post here. It bothers me that some of the friends that I made on the KHAT board don't feel that they can post here because there is so much hostility towards Blaine/Darren around here. If some of our regulars from the KHAT thread aren't comfortable here, we have a problem. Marie and Joann are not like the fans who were interferring on the Glee forum. Marie and Joann are Chris fans like us. This board is supposed to be a welcome place for all of us, not just those of us who are not Blaine/Darren fans.

I don't want to see Marie, Joann, or Carrie leave this board. I want them and all of us to feel comfortable posting here. There needs to be give and take for this to work. We all need to accept that there will be negative postings about Darren/Blaine here, but we also all need to be respectful of our fellow posters and keep the worst of the negative postings to the snark and bark thread. Infighting is never a good thing.

Quite frankly, I do think we are spending far too much time grumbling about Darren and Blaine around here (and based on the private messages I've been getting, others feel the same way, too). I'm probably one of the most guilty of this, but I'm also growing weary of it. We've had a lot of great Chris news during the hiatis, and I'd rather spend my time talking about that than Darren and Blaine.

This is ultimately a board for Chris. We are free to have critical discussions, but this is not a board for griping endlessly about Darren or Blaine.

Bottom line is, if for some bizarre reason Chris happens upon this board, and reads our posts, I would like to think that he would think of us as fans who do a good job representing him by discussing things with respect, and not a group of fans just gathered to bitch.

[CloveGlee]

I've got a radical idea. If you want to bitch about Blaine, do it in the thread set aside for bitching about Blaine and other stuff. If you can't handle reading about people bitching about Blaine, read a different thread. There are several great threads in this lovely forum that you were so kind to make for us, Karen.

[Coolbeans3131]

Thank you so very much Karen. I would really love to post more here and still also on the KHAT. I have such a great amount of admiration and respect for Chris Colfer. He is like a light in a sometimes frustrating and weary world. I feel so privileged to one of the ones who "get it". He brings me happiness. I love nothing more than to talk about him and read about him.

I will try to just stay out of this thread altogether and enjoy the rest of the forum. Maybe a miracle will happen and the rest of the season will be good and we will have great Kurt things to flail about! Who am I kidding? But at least maybe it won't be a complete train wreak either.

[fantastica]

I've got a radical idea. If you want to bitch about Blaine, do it in the thread set aside for bitching about Blaine and other stuff. If you can't handle reading about people bitching about Blaine, read a different thread. There are several great threads in this lovely forum that you were so kind to make for us, Karen.

I thought the snark and bark thread is for bitching about ANY person? I don't think we need a seperate anti-blarren thread. right now we dont have enough on board to bitch about everybody else. just avoid this thread if you get sick of the negativity. in the future when this thread grows so much that people here want to seperate into different hate threads then we can think about. right now I think the fewer thread we can deal with the better. I am already over-welmed w/ so many threads. I post everywhere so it's a big chore,

and to my frustration Karen I hate you - I just wrote a long post full of thoughtful reflections and then your PM hits me and bam I didn't get to post it before losing it forever! allow me to snark at you now because Carrie is gone and I need a new scratch pad.

[Jellyrolls]

It's OK, Kim. You can beat on me. I can handle it I am good at ignoring people. I have a thick skin.

But you are correct. We are free to snark and bark about anyone Kurt related.

I'm going to snark and bark about Ashley Fink. I don't think it's fair that she gets to be Chris' best friend. I think all of us should be Chris' best friends. He should love us the most.

[tanita_mors]

If we are creating treads for Klaine. Furt, Humelberry, Kurt/Burt and what not in the future, maybe we should split the All about Chris part of the forum into 2 subforums : All About Chris and Chris/Kurt on Glee (or how ever you wanna call it), otherwise it will be to many treads and it will get confusing. The Chris part will be for everything that isn't Glee or Glee related.

[tanita_mors]

Yo, how come I didn't get any PM's tonight. Aren't I important to you at all Karen ?

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