Re: General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 3

[ColdFlame96]

There are some child stars who just can't handle the pressure put on them, which is why some of them end up with eating disorders. Even the ones who go off the rails aren't necessarily hopeless. Look at Demi Lovato for instance. She was pressured to be skinny when she was on Disney channel and she contracted anorexia. She got depressed, starting cutting herself, and went to rehab. When she got out, she reflected all her hardships in her music and basically told the Disney people who bad mouthed her to go screw themselves. I really admire that young woman, and I like her music. It's got a lot of passion and heart.

[MoviesAreLife]

I understand. I think a Cassie who was firm and harsh when necessary but not as cruel as they made her would have been better, but Glee isn't very subtle. Either way, I think that Rachel needs "truth-telling" while Kurt needs "nurturing" (after Blaine) so in that sense the initial choice to give Cassie to Rachel and Isabelle to Kurt was on the money.

Actually, I think Rachel needs a combination....someone who is tough, stern...yet fair and honest. Not someone who kisses her ass, but not someone out to break her spirit either. Underneath the "I am the best" persona (which I think has been toned down this season) she is actually a very insecure girl. She needs someone who can get her to drop the false sense of security and to get her to really believe in herself, no acting required.

[AnneNeville]

I don't know if I feel sorry for child actors (although I probably do at least for some) but I rather not judge them harshly because I don't think people who haven't experienced something like this can fully understand what it is it like. And that some are able stay more "sane" than the others? Everyone has differentt personalitities and experiences... I look like I excusing them, I am not at least not fully, they are responsible for their action, but I just think it's really not easy to grow up in this kind of enviroment and many of us wouldn't be able to handle it good either even if we think we would.

I feel terribly sorry for the child actor who tortured me. I hope she's gotten better.

But she had no life beyond performing. She did not go to school. She supported her family. She spent all her time going to to rehearsal, or to the studio to voice a character. When she wasn't doing that it was hours of dance class per day--or auditions. She knew exactly which other child-actors she was going against over and over and could count who was "winning" more parts/was prettier/etc. She started road tours away from her family (except mom) by age six.

There is a psychological cost to that life--and Mara Wilson expresses it well. I don't pity "child stars gone bad" but I do think about what happened behind the scenes. I also think about the fact that they were "entertainment" as cute kids and then, when they go bad like Lindsay Lohan or whomever it is who is in the news now, they are made "entertainment" again. It's sad.

It's much better to enter the business older and with some grounding and rejection under your belt.

Or, perhaps, to be tied to a franchise like Harry Potter--it seems that that crew did the best they could to keep their child-actors grounded. More or less.

[AnneNeville]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

[MoviesAreLife]

I used to really love Amanda Bynes. It just pains me to watch all these stars I used to idolize act like psychopaths.

Ugh! I know, right?! This is why I love Chris. Smart, cares about the work, talented, a good person, and SANE! Even compared to several of his other Glee cast members, I think he is the best one out of the bunch. Sadly, I can picture quite a few of them going off the rails within 10 years.

There are lots of reasons that they get to be that way (sexual abuse being a major, major factor that no one likes to think about), though. I mean, as I understand it, Judy Garland got hooked on drugs because they were given to her by the studio to help her get "up" enough to shoot, then "down" enough to sleep.

This is all very true, I am probably being too harsh in judging them in terms of something I know nothing about personally. It's just frustrating to see these individuals self destruct and lash out those around them, especially if you know they are capable of better. It's probably 50/50. And I guess it's confusing to me to see half of them be okay, while the other half turn into drug addicted criminals. It's like....if these guys were able to hold it together, why the hell can't these ones function properly?

[AnneNeville]

I understand. I think a Cassie who was firm and harsh when necessary but not as cruel as they made her would have been better, but Glee isn't very subtle. Either way, I think that Rachel needs "truth-telling" while Kurt needs "nurturing" (after Blaine) so in that sense the initial choice to give Cassie to Rachel and Isabelle to Kurt was on the money.

Actually, I think Rachel needs a combination....someone who is tough, stern...yet fair and honest. Not someone who kisses her ass, but not someone out to break her spirit either. Underneath the "I am the best" persona (which I think has been toned down this season) she is actually a very insecure girl. She needs someone who can get her to drop the false sense of security and to get her to really believe in herself, no acting required.

Good point. Honestly, I want her to have Lydia Grant and Mr. Shorofsky from Fame.

[MoviesAreLife]

I feel terribly sorry for the child actor who tortured me. I hope she's gotten better.

But she had no life beyond performing. She did not go to school. She supported her family. She spent all her time going to to rehearsal, or to the studio to voice a character. When she wasn't doing that it was hours of dance class per day--or auditions. She knew exactly which other child-actors she was going against over and over and could count who was "winning" more parts/was prettier/etc. She started road tours away from her family (except mom) by age six.

There is a psychological cost to that life--and Mara Wilson expresses it well. I don't pity "child stars gone bad" but I do think about what happened behind the scenes. I also think about the fact that they were "entertainment" as cute kids and then, when they go bad like Lindsay Lohan or whomever it is who is in the news now, they are made "entertainment" again. It's sad.

It's much better to enter the business older and with some grounding and rejection under your belt.

Or, perhaps, to be tied to a franchise like Harry Potter--it seems that that crew did the best they could to keep their child-actors grounded. More or less.

Hmmm. This reminds me of a child actress from the 70's (

Spoiler:

). According to her co-worker, she was a miserable brat...very, very unhappy despite her talent, success and beauty. Plus, she had a stage mom. She never did drugs or anything like that, but she was and still is a very cold person.

[MoviesAreLife]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

Chris also loves set design! Now there is a thought!

[AnneNeville]

I used to really love Amanda Bynes. It just pains me to watch all these stars I used to idolize act like psychopaths.

Ugh! I know, right?! This is why I love Chris. Smart, cares about the work, talented, a good person, and SANE! Even compared to several of his other Glee cast members, I think he is the best one out of the bunch. Sadly, I can picture quite a few of them going off the rails within 10 years.

There are lots of reasons that they get to be that way (sexual abuse being a major, major factor that no one likes to think about), though. I mean, as I understand it, Judy Garland got hooked on drugs because they were given to her by the studio to help her get "up" enough to shoot, then "down" enough to sleep.

This is all very true, I am probably being too harsh in judging them in terms of something I know nothing about personally. It's just frustrating to see these individuals self destruct and lash out those around them, especially if you know they are capable of better. It's probably 50/50. And I guess it's confusing to me to see half of them be okay, while the other half turn into drug addicted criminals. It's like....if these guys were able to hold it together, why the hell can't these ones function properly?

A big part of it is how parents treat their kid's acting career (is it a job that supports the family, or is it something you do for fun), whether they go to school and get treated like a normal kid there, whether their money is handled right, whether they are lucky enough not to be molested, and what kind of team they have surrounding them. Also, how famous they get: Mara Wilson was, I see, well known, but I don't think she ever got to the level of fame of a Miley Cyrus or Chris Colfer, who have (I am sure in the first case, and suspect in the second) rather large teams supporting their careers and making their own fortunes off of them.

Also, there is such a thing as "resilience" (going now to my social-worker mom now). Some people are just better at coping with various kinds of problems and traumas. Even with non-famous kids (and adults) it helps explain why one kid can grow up in a horrible situation and turn out well, and another can grow up in the same (or even less horrible situation!) and be badly damaged.

[AnneNeville]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

Chris also loves set design! Now there is a thought!

I look at Chris and I think of Fred Savage. When he was done being a "child star" (and again, Chris was already beyond that age when he got Glee) he went to college. Chris seems really sharp, and though he comments on how Glee has been his "college" experience, I can't help but wonder if he misses that opportunity. I think that, in a recent interview, Jenna Ushkowitz said she thought she was the only one of the original cast who had gotten a college degree.

Think about that!

[ColdFlame96]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

Chris also loves set design! Now there is a thought!

I look at Chris and I think of Fred Savage. When he was done being a "child star" (and again, Chris was already beyond that age when he got Glee) he went to college. Chris seems really sharp, and though he comments on how Glee has been his "college" experience, I can't help but wonder if he misses that opportunity. I think that, in a recent interview, Jenna Ushkowitz said she thought she was the only one of the original cast who had gotten a college degree.

Think about that!

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

[MoviesAreLife]

A big part of it is how parents treat their kid's acting career (is it a job that supports the family, or is it something you do for fun), whether they go to school and get treated like a normal kid there, whether their money is handled right, whether they are lucky enough not to be molested, and what kind of team they have surrounding them. Also, how famous they get: Mara Wilson was, I see, well known, but I don't think she ever got to the level of fame of a Miley Cyrus or Chris Colfer, who have (I am sure in the first case, and suspect in the second) rather large teams supporting their careers and making their own fortunes off of them.

Also, there is such a thing as "resilience" (going now to my social-worker mom now). Some people are just better at coping with various kinds of problems and traumas. Even with non-famous kids (and adults) it helps explain why one kid can grow up in a horrible situation and turn out well, and another can grow up in the same (or even less horrible situation!) and be badly damaged.

Yes, kids who are made to be the breadwinners in their family are, of course, damaged by that early pressure sometimes. Ugh, stage parents. A strong family base and a "regular" support system, such as school, can also keep some of them connected to reality. Molestation is a big factor, and the kids who end up getting cleaned out by their parents are understandably bitter about that experience. Drugs and their personal team (whether they are leeches or not) all play a part too. As for level of fame...that's iffy. Some really famous kids can grow up to be okay (Shirley Temple) and others can become damaged by it (Judy Garland). It's a crapshoot. So much can go wrong.

Some people are resilient and others are not, I guess. It's still irritating to see the ones who are not (those kids who didn't nessassarily come from abuse, but just grew up famous) throw their lives away like that. For instance, Jodi Sweetin grew up famous...no real issues of abuse, no stage parents, no trauma. The only thing she had was a sense of lost identity due to being adopted. Anyway, drugs/alcohol were a major issue for her as well as self harm, and it seemed to come out of nowhere...like she was always self hating for no reason. She is honest and candid and is trying to turn her life around, so I am proud of her.

[MoviesAreLife]

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

This is a good idea.

[MoviesAreLife]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

Actually, I do think that Chris enjoys the fame to a degree, but not to the point where he is shoved and grabbed at in a movie theater, or held hostage in an elevator. Even having people constantly recognize you/approach you wherever you go even when you're off the clock has to be tiring.

[AnneNeville]

Some people are resilient and others are not, I guess. It's still irritating to see the ones who are not (those kids who didn't nessassarily come from abuse, but just grew up famous) throw their lives away like that. For instance, Jodi Sweetin grew up famous...no real issues of abuse, no stage parents, no trauma. The only thing she had was a sense of lost identity due to being adopted. Anyway, drugs/alcohol were a major issue for her as well as self harm, and it seemed to come out of nowhere...like she was always self hating for no reason. She is honest and candid and is trying to turn her life around, so I am proud of her.

I'm proud, too, and wish her luck. I wouldn't rule out bad things happening, though, because you have to take into account the power differential between the child-star or grown-up child-star and the victimizers. There would be a strong incentive--especially if you hope to return to the business--not to make a fuss. Plus, imagine going against Disney or a Disney-protected individual, for instance. It's a losing battle.

[AnneNeville]

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

This is a good idea.

It is. But taking real life classes is a different, "real life" experience and could be a nice "break," too. Plus, having a few years out of the spotlight (or partly so) could make getting non-Kurt 2.0 roles easier.

Speaking of Kurt 2.0, there really isn't a Kurt 2.0 in the new McKinley cast, is there?

[ColdFlame96]

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

This is a good idea.

It is. But taking real life classes is a different, "real life" experience and could be a nice "break," too. Plus, having a few years out of the spotlight (or partly so) could make getting non-Kurt 2.0 roles easier.

Speaking of Kurt 2.0, there really isn't a Kurt 2.0 in the new McKinley cast, is there?

Some people are calling Unique a Mercedes/Kurt mixture because of one line last season.

But if he takes a break so early on in his career, he might have a hard time getting any kind of roles or offers in the future. He probably needs to stay in showbiz for quite a while.

[AnneNeville]

Being famous does NOT seem to be suiting him very well, though (in terms of personal comfort/private life). Once Glee goes away, I bet he'll turn into one of those celebrities about whom we hear little unless there is a major project coming out. My heart breaks for him when I hear stories about what happened in that Florida bar.

He seems to care about the work, not the fame. He might even withdraw into BTS work when Glee is done.

I wouldn't be surprised. BTS work, writing, and the occasional performing role when it is just perfect for him. If he's the professional on set that I've heard, he might get parts written for him or directors requesting him.

Or, it is possible, he will decide that fame is not for him and he'll take his hard-earned money, go to college, and live quietly somewhere he can blend in (NYC is full of celebrities, I am told, though I am terrible at recognizing them).

Actually, I do think that Chris enjoys the fame to a degree, but not to the point where he is shoved and grabbed at in a movie theater, or held hostage in an elevator. Even having people constantly recognize you/approach you wherever you go even when you're off the clock has to be tiring.

There are definitely pluses to being famous. I'd say there's probably a magic level of fame that is just right: you get the perks, but you also get to have your life. I worked with Eddie Izzard once, and it was great. He was in a "bloke-y" phase and people didn't seem to pester him much. But he could still command the entire upstairs of a bar and there was a certain thrill in asking the maitre d' to take you to Eddie's table (and then wait to see if he'd say yes--and he did, cause he's a gem).

Harpo Marx had the best personal life out of all the Marx Brothers, and I think it is in no small part because of his costume and character. He never did interviews--even when they were photo shoots at his house with his wife and kids--without his Harpo makeup on. He never spoke--he always honked. The two clips of his voice that exist are golden. And the man could walk into any store and do whatever he wanted without anyone recognizing him. He was a regular looking guy.



:-) Smart Harpo.

(Actually, the Marx Brothers looked so similar out of make-up that they could switch up who was playing whom. They did it in their vaudeville show one night only to see if their children noticed. And then found out that the kids hadn't watched that day. They didn't ever do it again.)

[AnneNeville]

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

This is a good idea.

It is. But taking real life classes is a different, "real life" experience and could be a nice "break," too. Plus, having a few years out of the spotlight (or partly so) could make getting non-Kurt 2.0 roles easier.

Speaking of Kurt 2.0, there really isn't a Kurt 2.0 in the new McKinley cast, is there?

Some people are calling Unique a Mercedes/Kurt mixture because of one line last season.

But if he takes a break so early on in his career, he might have a hard time getting any kind of roles or offers in the future. He probably needs to stay in showbiz for quite a while.

Ah, Unique . . . I don't think I buy that Mercedes/Kurt 2.0 thing. The characters aren't similar at all. Unless you want to equate her crush on Ryder (so-called Finn 2.0, whom I liked better than Finn until they jerkified him) to Kurt's on Finn. Nah. Don't see it.

And that line from season three was lifted right from Alex Newell's mouth. He said it on The Glee Project!

Sometimes taking a break can be a good thing, and sometimes it can be a bad one. It's hard to tell with a talent like Chris's which it will be. Daniel Radcliffe,* I think, is absolutely right to be out there doing all kinds of crazy-different-"I'm not Harry Potter" stuff. But that doesn't mean that it would be the best thing for Chris Colfer.

Mayim Bialik went from Blossom to PhD in neuroscience to Big Bang Theory / Emmy Award winner. Without the break, I wonder if anyone would have seen her as anything but Blossom.

* I think we can agree that Daniel-Radcliffe fame is several degrees above Chris-Colfer fame, which is part of why I think he really needed to start De-Harry-fying even before the movies were over.

[MoviesAreLife]

I'm proud, too, and wish her luck. I wouldn't rule out bad things happening, though, because you have to take into account the power differential between the child-star or grown-up child-star and the victimizers. There would be a strong incentive--especially if you hope to return to the business--not to make a fuss. Plus, imagine going against Disney or a Disney-protected individual, for instance. It's a losing battle.

You mean like a cover up? Perhaps. I didn't think of that.

[MoviesAreLife]

[quote="AnneNeville"]It is. But taking real life classes is a different, "real life" experience and could be a nice "break," too. Plus, having a few years out of the spotlight (or partly so) could make getting non-Kurt 2.0 roles easier.quote]

That's true. And Chris is so intelligent, he'd probably enjoy the college experience.

[ColdFlame96]

Well, if he really wanted to, he could do what Becca did and take online college classes while still doing glee. This way, he won't have to worry about taking time off from his other projects.

This is a good idea.

It is. But taking real life classes is a different, "real life" experience and could be a nice "break," too. Plus, having a few years out of the spotlight (or partly so) could make getting non-Kurt 2.0 roles easier.

Speaking of Kurt 2.0, there really isn't a Kurt 2.0 in the new McKinley cast, is there?

Some people are calling Unique a Mercedes/Kurt mixture because of one line last season.

But if he takes a break so early on in his career, he might have a hard time getting any kind of roles or offers in the future. He probably needs to stay in showbiz for quite a while.

Ah, Unique . . . I don't think I buy that Mercedes/Kurt 2.0 thing. The characters aren't similar at all. Unless you want to equate her crush on Ryder (so-called Finn 2.0, whom I liked better than Finn until they jerkified him) to Kurt's on Finn. Nah. Don't see it.

And that line from season three was lifted right from Alex Newell's mouth. He said it on The Glee Project!

Sometimes taking a break can be a good thing, and sometimes it can be a bad one. It's hard to tell with a talent like Chris's which it will be. Daniel Radcliffe,* I think, is absolutely right to be out there doing all kinds of crazy-different-"I'm not Harry Potter" stuff. But that doesn't mean that it would be the best thing for Chris Colfer.

Mayim Bialik went from Blossom to PhD in neuroscience to Big Bang Theory / Emmy Award winner. Without the break, I wonder if anyone would have seen her as anything but Blossom.

* I think we can agree that Daniel-Radcliffe fame is several degrees above Chris-Colfer fame, which is part of why I think he really needed to start De-Harry-fying even before the movies were over.

Yeah. The people who accuse Chris of playing himself should really take a good, long look at Alex.

I definitely think Chris needs to make himself better known, and he's done a good job of that, he is still mostly known as the gay kid on Glee. If he gets a few movie roles, that would definitely help him, and of course his screenplay. I just think if he takes a break any time soon, he could unintentionally end his career.

[AnneNeville]

So I've been hearing over and over that Glee Summer Hiatuses are soooooooo exciting with all kinds of crazy stuff going down. Am I missing something?

The biggest controversies and stories I'm seeing are over whether Cory is getting thinner or heavier, whether Monchele is real, and CrissColfer vs. Chill vs. MYOB.

Were other summers different?

[MoviesAreLife]

I read Mara Wilson's blog. I love that woman. I remember her from "Mrs. Doubtfire", "Miracle on 34th Street" (1994 remake), and especially "Matilda". I remember thinking how odd her speaking voice was in "Matilda", being just a kid myself. I thought she sounded very strange and overly mature.

What a talented writer she is. Very much a journalist. The intelligence, sense of self, confidence and wit she possesses through her writing is remarkable. I love her diction.

And yes, there is probably a perfect level of fame where it is just enough, but not too much...kind of like a level of drunkenness!

As for Unique...they tried to make a Kurtcedes baby with her, but it didn't work. She is all of the most annoying qualities of these two characters without any of the good ones.

[ColdFlame96]

So I've been hearing over and over that Glee Summer Hiatuses are soooooooo exciting with all kinds of crazy stuff going down. Am I missing something?

The biggest controversies and stories I'm seeing are over whether Cory is getting thinner or heavier, whether Monchele is real, and CrissColfer vs. Chill vs. MYOB.

Were other summers different?

Well the hiatus before season 3 was exciting with the tour and Chris filming his movie. Last year was exciting because of all the book signings Chris was going on.

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