Re: Glee season 6 discussion and spoiler thread--Part 1

[Buenos]

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/24/jane-lynch-glee-series-finale/

Glee‘s upcoming sixth season will be its last, which means, sadly, that television will be losing one of its most brilliant characters: Sue Sylvester.
Related

Played by Jane Lynch, Sue has captured audiences since the show first hit the small screen in 2009. With her ruthless, menacing antics and offensive one-liners, Sue, at first glance, is pure evil. But counterbalanced by a tenderness toward her sister, Jean, and Cheerios cheerleader Becky, both of whom have Down syndrome, there is something very sweet and compassionate about Sue as well. Sue is complex, one of the great female antiheroes.

When we last saw Sue in season 5, she had taken over as principal of William McKinley High School and also started up a romance with Mario (Chris Parnell) while visiting New York. Here, Lynch picks up where the show left off, telling Entertainment Weekly how the show might end, how she’d like it to end, her favorite Sue moments, and what life after Glee might be like.

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: What’s going to happen in the final season, and what will Sue’s involvement be?

JANE LYNCH: I have no idea what’s going to happen, but I know we’ll probably be doing half a season’s worth. I think we might come on in midseason. I don’t know if I’m breaking news here or if I’m making something up. That’s the last thing I heard. That was the word on the street.

[Note: Fox's Kevin Reilly confirmed that the show will return midseason. See the EW story here.]

You’ve put a lot of time into this show. How are you feeling about it coming to an end?
We’re kind of winding down and the end is near. It’s sad. It’s also kind of exciting to move on, but I’ve never been very good about wanting anything to end. I like things to go on forever and ever. I don’t know what’s going to happen with anybody, but I think we’re bringing back a lot of the cast. I think it’s going to be very solid and fun.
What would you like to happen with your character, particularly her relationship with Mario?

I hope Mario comes back, of course. That’s Chris Parnell, who played my love interest in New York. But we’ll have to see if he comes back and if that softens Sue’s heart at all. I think she’s back as principal, as far as I know. I think we’re going to have some surprises about who’s going to be the choir director of The Warblers and who will be the choir director of Vocal Adrenaline. I think it’ll be a big surprise.
Sue is such a memorable character. Looking back, do you have a favorite Sue Sylvester moment?
I love when I got to tear offices apart. I got to do this whole kind of Wagnerian destruction of the gym, of the boys’ locker room. I was just throwing stuff. That was my favorite thing. They’d kind of slow it down, make it in slow motion. There’d be “Ride of the Valkyries” in the background—that was fun. I also had some really great one-liners—some great, insulting one-liners–my favorite being, “Loving musical theater doesn’t make you gay, it just makes you awful.”
One of my favorite moments was back in season 2 when Sue’s sister, Jean, passed away and Sue breaks down. You get to see another side of her. She becomes a real person.
You also understand why she’s so damn mean. She has spent her life protecting her sister, her very vulnerable sister, from a really cruel world. To be a bully and to be violent and a warrior is the only way she knows how to do it.
What future projects do you have coming up? What is life like after Glee?
I don’t know exactly what life will be after Glee. I’m kind of letting the universe roll in at my feet, as they say in the spiritual texts. We’ll see, but I am doing a cabaret in New York this summer, so I’m going to get my feet wet in that realm and we’ll see if I want to do more of those things. I have a children’s book coming out in September called Marlene, Marlene Queen of Mean. So I’m doing little bits here and there. I’m enjoying my life. This is what’s wonderful about having a successful series under your belt: You can almost sit back—you should do this all through life—but you can kind of sit back and relax and go, yeah, I did this. I’ve done this thing that I’ve been striving my whole life to accomplish. There’s just a great release in letting life flow. That’s happening for me.

[Jellyrolls]

So, there will be surprises as who becomes the director of VA and the Warblers? So, does this mean Rachel comes back as the director of ND, Will ends up being the director of VA, and Blaine will become the director of the Warblers (with help from Sam) because the Warblers were never the same after Blaine left them?

Gosh, the more they talk about season six, the more horrible it sounds. RIB are complete idiots to go through the casting process for this crap (either that, or they are just going to bring back a bunch of Glee Project kids).

[Ranwing]

Wow... everything I never wanted. Was really hoping to have seen the last of the Warblers.

I get that they are trying to create some interest to hold them over until the new episodes actually air (which can be more than six months from now) but this is having the opposite effect and is killing whatever little hint of interest old fans like me might still have in this creaking wreak of a show. To drag characters who managed to escape Lima back (especially after we assume they've achieved some kind of significant career success) is laughable enough. But to force us back to the competition cycle that was already becoming stale in season 3 when we had all the originals and became unbearable with the noobs is the cherry on the shit sundae.

Chris... please have your film take longer to do than planned so you can stay as far away as possible!

[Jellyrolls]

The only people who are going to be left watching are the real diehard Daleastreet stans.

[ChrisColferFan1]

The only people who are going to be left watching are the real diehard Daleastreet stans.

True,I agree.

[Glorfindel]

So, there will be surprises as who becomes the director of VA and the Warblers?  So, does this mean Rachel comes back as the director of ND, Will ends up being the director of VA, and Blaine will become the director of the Warblers (with help from Sam) because the Warblers were never the same after Blaine left them?

I'd say there's a 99% chance of that happening, yes. Oh joy.

The only people who are going to be left watching are the real diehard Daleastreet stans.

All 25 of them.  

[brisallie]

At this point I feel the only people who care about Glee are those whose virtual life depends on it, like...I don't wanna say names...but like sites which only topic is Glee. But those who have an small place within a bigger forum, uff haven't seen updated comments in two weeks.

[fantastica]

did warbler ever had/needed a director? lmao.

[Glorfindel]

did warbler ever had/needed a director? lmao.

No.  
They had a council of students if I remember correctly. Oh Glee, you suck so bad at continuity.

[coxfire]

No.  
They had a council of students if I remember correctly. Oh Glee, you suck so bad at continuity.

If it was the only thing Glee sucked at....Is there any aspect they don't suck at, beyond initial casting?

[Jellyrolls]

did warbler ever had/needed a director? lmao.

No.  
They had a council of students if I remember correctly. Oh Glee, you suck so bad at continuity.

But see, what will happen now is that the Warblers had a steady decline, and they need Blainey Boy back to bring them back to their former glory.   

You know, if they do have Blaine and Rachel being directors of competing show choirs, I wonder which of his favorites Ry Ry will choose to be the big champion. Or maybe he'll just have them tie.

I wonder how much of a time jump they are going to have, since there has to be something. Since Alex is the only one rumored to be coming back at this point, I wonder if they will make it be his senior year (which would only be a one year time jump) or if he is back to help direct one of the choirs. Ryan does seem to love Alex (even though his acting is so bad it makes even Blarren look good).

[Divalicious]

When Will was Choir director, he was ridiculed by Sue.  Are they now going to make it a prestigious position?  Because if Rachel goes from Broadway stardom, to possible Television stardom, this is a bit of a step down.  I am kind of thinking it is her television show that is going to want to film at McKinley to get in on the "real" life Glee club, so she preens and prances for the small screen.  I wonder how they will end the series, with her "show" being cancelled?  Or to have it win an Emmy or whatever.  Sue will put up with it because it brings the school money.

Blaine will be at the Warblers because he is the best Warbler to ever Warble.  When they had their own council, the little boot lickers will all be on their knees to praise Blaine coming to save them and help them win Nationals, the biggest goal a little kid can have.

Will be VA, because they are the mindless idiots that always won until it worked for ND to win.  And Will must always lose.  I am actually hoping they have him win the season.  Blaine and Rachel review their life choices, and Will gets discovered by a Broadway producer and finally gets the fame his talent deserves.

Kurt, meanwhile, was courted by someone of the English nobility and has been whisked off to a slightly drafty castle somewhere where they must snuggle constantly to keep warm.  His new husband values his talent, and fully supports the plays Kurt wishes to do while they are in England.  Kurt also designs the costumes.  He gets to have tea with the Queen for all his humanitarian projects.

That was fun, probably a lot funner than what we will get out of this show.

[Ranwing]

There is no way that this storyline makes any sense or is in any way respectful of the journeys of any of the characters involved (with the sole exception of Sam, which I will explain).

Rachel - From the pilot, Rachel has been a person of the most single-minded, goal oriented drive. To the point that not even the love of her life could compete with her ambition. To have to walk away from the career that she was willing to sacrifice everything for to lead ND is in direct opposition to everything her character has stood for. The only way to explain why she would suddenly be willing to drop everything for a high school show choir is 1) really be unprecedented and have her career flagging or 2) having her find that she just doesn't find being a big star satisfying and have give it all up for ND. The show has always treated performing arts teachers as something of failures - they're teaching because they can't make it in the profession. We saw that with Schu, Shelby, Cassandra - all of them are teaching because they in some way failed in their professional performance endeavors. The only one who isn't painted as some kind of failure was Ms. Tibideaux and even she was referred to by Rachel as a "has been". In Rachel's canon mindset, if you aren't performing, you are a failure. And if she is successful, having her swan into Lima to rebuild ND makes even less sense. For her to then shift gears to teaching would really fly in the face of five seasons of character development on her part. Even more so, Rachel has the worst possible temperament to be a teacher. Teachers have to think behind themselves and do what is best for their students. Rachel has always put herself first and even those that she loves a distant second - she would probably be the last person on earth to be happy guiding the further aspirations of others rather than focusing on her own. She would, at best, end up being too much like Schu at his worst - when he saw ND as a stand in for his own thwarted ambitions and their success as a proxy for his own. Another else would be too much a departure from her character.

Schu - My feelings about Schu as a teacher and how he played favorites and manipulated his students to serve his own interests are hardly a secret. But to have him leading VA and competing against ND is really disrespectful for his character. I have huge issues with how he went about his job, but I don't doubt that he had a real passion for his choir (even if it was partly his own misplaced personal ambition). He's with VA because ND was shut down so to have him leading a choir against his old group is really cruel on the show's part. It puts him in an adversarial position, which he doesn't deserve. Either he is corrupted by the VA win at all costs mentality, or he's managed to change VA's culture and make it more about love of performing (which would eliminate a major part of the automatic audience instinct to root for the ND protagonists). Either he really works against ND, or he sacrifices his current crop of students for ND's benefit. Either way, it can't turn out well for him.

Sam - Sam suffers the least here because it's not as if he's got any real professional ambitions. He's just stepping into Finn's shoes (and please Gods... let Rachel not be part of that deal) and fulfilling what RM had planned for Finn. Since his character is such a dim blank, he can be manipulated into the spot with little issue.

Blaine - Blaine working with the Warblers is just as problematic as Rachel working with ND. Supposedly he's got professional ambitions and if he's successful, returning to Ohio makes no sense and like Rachel, the show will never allow him to have career problems. And to have him in Lima leading a choir while Kurt is away presumably working is really going to blow people's minds and give the impression that Kurt is more successful professionally in that he doesn't have all this free time to devote to leading a choir group is really going to be an interesting proposition. And to have him working with the Warblers is problematic, as he was with ND longer than he was with the Warblers and competed against them with ND. The makeup of the Warblers, having a student council leading the group rather than a faculty advisor, would preclude Blaine having a place leading them. Of course, after the doping scandal, the team might now be required to have a faculty advisor to oversee them. Which leads to another issue...

For Blaine, Sam and Rachel, there is a huge roadblock in them having positions as choir directors. None of them are teachers, nor have applicable credentials to qualify them as artistic directors. If the time jump is more than three years, they could stretch it out enough that Blaine would have graduated NYADA so would at least have an undergraduate degree, but no real teaching credentials. Sam showed no interest in college and Rachel dropped out after her freshman year. Whatever professional successes they may or may not have would not qualify them for instructor positions. They could act as volunteers (the way Finn did), but that would assume that they can afford financially to work unpaid for a full year to guide their respective choirs through the multiple competitions stretching out over the school year.

The more you poke at it, the less plausible anything planned for season 6 (or 666 as ONTD dubbed it) becomes. The one good thing is that we've had absolutely nothing in the way of spoilers for how Kurt might fit into the season. Never did I think that we'd be so grateful for not having any spoilers or storyline for Kurt since it means that he won't have a major part in this unmitigated mess.

[Glorfindel]

When Will was Choir director, he was ridiculed by Sue.  Are they now going to make it a prestigious position?  Because if Rachel goes from Broadway stardom, to possible Television stardom, this is a bit of a step down.  I am kind of thinking it is her television show that is going to want to film at McKinley to get in on the "real" life Glee club, so she preens and prances for the small screen.  I wonder how they will end the series, with her "show" being cancelled?  Or to have it win an Emmy or whatever.  Sue will put up with it because it brings the school money.

Blaine will be at the Warblers because he is the best Warbler to ever Warble.  When they had their own council, the little boot lickers will all be on their knees to praise Blaine coming to save them and help them win Nationals, the biggest goal a little kid can have.

Will be VA, because they are the mindless idiots that always won until it worked for ND to win.  And Will must always lose.  I am actually hoping they have him win the season.  Blaine and Rachel review their life choices, and Will gets discovered by a Broadway producer and finally gets the fame his talent deserves.

Kurt, meanwhile, was courted by someone of the English nobility and has been whisked off to a slightly drafty castle somewhere where they must snuggle constantly to keep warm.  His new husband values his talent, and fully supports the plays Kurt wishes to do while they are in England.  Kurt also designs the costumes.  He gets to have tea with the Queen for all his humanitarian projects.

That was fun, probably a lot funner than what we will get out of this show.

I couldn't have said it better.   

Also agree with you, Wendy.
Season Sux will be such a mess, oy.  

[Buenos]

Schu - My feelings about Schu as a teacher and how he played favorites and manipulated his students to serve his own interests are hardly a secret. But to have him leading VA and competing against ND is really disrespectful for his character. I have huge issues with how he went about his job, but I don't doubt that he had a real passion for his choir (even if it was partly his own misplaced personal ambition). He's with VA because ND was shut down so to have him leading a choir against his old group is really cruel on the show's part. It puts him in an adversarial position, which he doesn't deserve. Either he is corrupted by the VA win at all costs mentality, or he's managed to change VA's culture and make it more about love of performing (which would eliminate a major part of the automatic audience instinct to root for the ND protagonists). Either he really works against ND, or he sacrifices his current crop of students for ND's benefit. Either way, it can't turn out well for him.

While Will is far from my favorite character, I bow to no one in recognizing the  talent and skill of Matt Morrison. He's a very good singer, exceptional dancer (he makes it look sooo easy) and an underrated actor also.  IMO he was always the only genuine triple threat of Glee.  ( I love Chris but I'm not going to pretend he's an exceptional gifted dancer, ditto Naya Rivera or Lea.  Amber is not a very good actress.  Kevin is a good singer and great dancer but his acting is OK, but not exceptional.)

The character while making so many mistakes on Glee, had some interesting arc they could have explored with him, but they cast Matt aside to keep the highlight of some of the kids, and then cast them aside by season 4.  I hope they at least let Will exit the show on a positive note.

[Ranwing]

Schu - My feelings about Schu as a teacher and how he played favorites and manipulated his students to serve his own interests are hardly a secret. But to have him leading VA and competing against ND is really disrespectful for his character. I have huge issues with how he went about his job, but I don't doubt that he had a real passion for his choir (even if it was partly his own misplaced personal ambition). He's with VA because ND was shut down so to have him leading a choir against his old group is really cruel on the show's part. It puts him in an adversarial position, which he doesn't deserve. Either he is corrupted by the VA win at all costs mentality, or he's managed to change VA's culture and make it more about love of performing (which would eliminate a major part of the automatic audience instinct to root for the ND protagonists). Either he really works against ND, or he sacrifices his current crop of students for ND's benefit. Either way, it can't turn out well for him.

While Will is far from my favorite character, I bow to no one in recognizing the  talent and skill of Matt Morrison. He's a very good singer, exceptional dancer (he makes it look sooo easy) and an underrated actor also.  IMO he was always the only genuine triple threat of Glee.  ( I love Chris but I'm not going to pretend he's an exceptional gifted dancer, ditto Naya Rivera or Lea.  Amber is not a very good actress.  Kevin is a good singer and great dancer but his acting is OK, but not exceptional.)

The character while making so many mistakes on Glee, had some interesting arc they could have explored with him, but they cast Matt aside to keep the highlight of some of the kids, and then cast them aside by season 4.  I hope they at least let Will exit the show on a positive note.

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again - Matt deserved far better. Will is a difficult character to play because his behavior veered into asshole territory so often. He was oblivious to things that were right in front of him (like thinking that Kurt was making friends right before the kid was thrown into the dumpster), showed favoritism to a rare few (Rachel, Finn, Blaine) while often ignoring others who needed his guidance. And forget anyone not named Rachel Berry from getting a competition solo (except that one time in season 2 when Emma pointed out that others deserved a chance and when Rachel got suspended). He basically acquiesced control of ND over to Rachel in order to win competitions. And he was a beyond incompetent teacher, both in glee club and in the classroom. While Terri was a horrible wife (and he should have divorced her long ago), he wasn't much better in their marriage, carrying on an emotional affair with Emma while he thought his wife was pregnant.

But he also was caring. He tried to do the right thing many times (like telling the others to back off Kurt while his father was in the hospital). And Matt is without peer in this cast. As an actor, singer and dancer. I loved so many of his performances and it was really rare that they let him cut loose and show what he's really capable of. He gave Will enough charm that you could still maintain sympathy for Will, even when you were raging that Kurt was in his senior year and wasn't ever going to get a competition solo (unless he was willing to wear a dress). Matt could handle some really challenging material and it's an absolute crime that they wasted so much potential with him. I was rather hoping that we'd have seen the last of him in Opening Night, because they left Will in a good place (new job and with the birth of his son) and it would have freed Matt.

[MoviesAreLife]

Why are they doing this? The sooner season sux is over, the better.

[fantastica]

why is blaine supposedly the warbler savior? had warbler ever won the championship under his leadership? on the other hand, since the only ones still watching the show are blainers, it makes sense to keep them happy.

[fantastica]

Why are they doing this? The sooner season sux is over, the better.

why? because they've tried the kitchen sink and everything still sinks!  

[tanita_mors]

man, the more i read, the more i'm convinced to just not bother with glee, season 6. there hasn't been like a single thing mentioned that i would ever want to watch again. everything i hate - the choir room, possibly new kids, perfect and successful rachel who leaves said success to come back to lima (i mean, there is stretching reality or hyper-reality, and then there is just glee bullshit that wouldn't fly in fanfics for heavens sake), focus of blaine and sam,....

[Divalicious]

Rachel is Ryan's projection of himself.  Terribly talented and whatever she wants should be hers.  So her being in Lima cannot be her being unsuccessful, because that would make Ryan unsuccessful.  I really think they will film her show there, and who knows, the "road to Nationals" might even be the name of the show.  So she gets to be a TV star, and they get to save money by using the Lima set.  It would also explain why someone at a High School Show Choir gets more exposure than the kids.  Sadly, my dislike of reality television might show up on a show that is on his last rasps of breath.  

I am a completionist.  Even if I don't really love the show anymore, if I've collected all seasons I am likely to get the last one.  Kind of OCD.  But, if Chris isn't in this season, even with my desire to finish what I've started, I will not get season 6 of Glee, because Kurt is the only one I care about.  They've proven all too clearly some characters have enchanted, blessed lives of perfection with nary a cloud that lasts more than a moment.  Why the hell do they think we can care/worry about such characters?  Not me.  My darling, imperfect, gives people far too much leeway and insanely talented Kurt is the ONLY reason to watch this dreck.  

I have Chris' books, I have his movies, as much as I love Kurt, I love the idea of saying goodbye to Glee forever.

[Ranwing]

Divalicious - You and I are in the same boat. I've watched Glee from the start and as much as I hate what it's become, I'll see it through. Kurt is the last thing on this show worth watching, because his character is the only one who's storyline and accomplishments are rooted in reality.

[Glorfindel]

^Same here.
I'm usually a very loyal viewer, but no Kurt > no curr.   


To add to the 'reality' problems when Rachel and Blaine go back to Lima: 

How can ND, VA and the Warblers all compete against each other at the same competition?

- ND lost from VA at Regionals in season 1. Then things changed for VA in season 2 and 3, when ND and VA each won seperate Regionals, as both choirs were able to go to Nationals (VA won Nationals in season 2, ND in season 3).
- The Warblers tied with ND at Sectionals and lost from ND at Regionals in season 2, ad their own Sectionals in season 3 but lost from ND at Regionals again, both choirs got disqualified after Sectionals in season 4 but competed against each other again at Regionals (and ND won).

So, if they follow canon (lol), ND could face the Warblers again at Regionals but not at Nationals. With VA it's the other way around: ND could face VA again at Nationals, but not Regionals. But I doubt that 12-13 episodes allow for at least 2 competitions (Warblers/Regionals and VA/Nationals), let alone 3 (if they want to show ND's Sectionals too).
In order to get all 3 choirs together in the same competition they either need to have Vocal Adrenaline compete in the same region as ND and the Warblers again (Regionals), or they somehow magically have the Warblers be able to win yet another seperate Regionals (while ND and VA win theirs), and they all go to Nationals together. And that would mean 3 choirs from Ohio at Nationals,.... right.

Somehow I doubt RIB want Glee to end on Regionals and not Nationals (especially if the noobs are then in their senior year), as Ryan is all about the grand gestures. He might even throw in a spontaneous Klaine wedding on stage after ND wins Nationals, with all the choirs and judges cheering them on (got to top the 100+ people proposal).

And I think I just put more thought and effort in this than the Glee writers ever will. After all: in their minds it's perfectly possible for a disqualified choir to take the place of another disqualified choir, even when there was a 3rd choir who had actually won at the time.   

[Jellyrolls]

^Same here.
I'm usually a very loyal viewer, but no Kurt > no curr.   


To add to the 'reality' problems when Rachel and Blaine go back to Lima: 

How can ND, VA and the Warblers all compete against each other at the same competition?

- ND lost from VA at Regionals in season 1. Then things changed for VA in season 2 and 3, when ND and VA each won seperate Regionals, as both choirs were able to go to Nationals (VA won Nationals in season 2, ND in season 3).
- The Warblers tied with ND at Sectionals and lost from ND at Regionals in season 2, ad their own Sectionals in season 3 but lost from ND at Regionals again, both choirs got disqualified after Sectionals in season 4 but competed against each other again at Regionals (and ND won).

So, if they follow canon (lol), ND could face the Warblers again at Regionals but not at Nationals. With VA it's the other way around: ND could face VA again at Nationals, but not Regionals. But I doubt that 12-13 episodes allow for at least 2 competitions (Warblers/Regionals and VA/Nationals), let alone 3 (if they want to show ND's Sectionals too).
In order to get all 3 choirs together in the same competition they either need to have Vocal Adrenaline compete in the same region as ND and the Warblers again (Regionals), or they somehow magically have the Warblers be able to win yet another seperate Regionals (while ND and VA win theirs), and they all go to Nationals together. And that would mean 3 choirs from Ohio at Nationals,.... right.

Somehow I doubt RIB want Glee to end on Regionals and not Nationals (especially if the noobs are then in their senior year), as Ryan is all about the grand gestures. He might even throw in a spontaneous Klaine wedding on stage after ND wins Nationals, with all the choirs and judges cheering them on (got to top the 100+ people proposal).

And I think I just put more thought and effort in this than the Glee writers ever will. After all: in their minds it's perfectly possible for a disqualified choir to take the place of another disqualified choir, even when there was a 3rd choir who had actually won at the time.   

Marie, you are mistaking RIB and the writers for people who care about continuity. And they make rules to fit whatever their puny non-creative minds want to fit. Hell, they'll probably have a new rulebook stating they only need six members to perform, and the choir directors can now perform with the students.

[Glorfindel]

Marie, you are mistaking RIB and the writers for people who care about continuity. And they make rules to fit whatever their puny non-creative minds want to fit.  Hell, they'll probably have a new rulebook stating they only need six members to perform, and the choir directors can now perform with the students.

Oops, silly me. Applying logic to Glee.   

Must have had a sunstroke today. 

[Sponsored content]