Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 9

[Lottie2303]

What IF all this Blarren overload in the first few episodes is because, yeah, they are transitioning the show from Lima and  towards NY... and Blaine ISN'T going with it?

Ryan did say last year that he 'never said Blaine was going to NY'. I always thought it was such an odd thing to say when just about everyone assumes Blaine would be.

Maybe all the Blaine, Blaine, Blaine of S4 too was just a 'parting gift' to the Blainers/Klainers? Fox/RIB have to have seen the ratings/itunes numbers and that Darren/Blaine actually AREN'T an asset to the show and any desired profit, rather a liability.

Fans/viewers have been leaving in droves or at least voicing annoyance (and/or the threat of leaving) in ever growing numbers with Blaine/Klaine.

If Glee is shifting from Lima to NY, or at least adjusting focus towards NY, it's from fan/viewer outcry of dislike for the noobs/McKinley and preference for NY (and the ratings support it). AND in those complaints were also a deluge of "Enough Blaine/Klaine!"

Adam Lambert is apparently for NY and KURT. They're constructing quite a lot of new NY sets. And casting for new characters mostly seem destined for the NY side.

(Also, Ryan nor Brad have EVER said Klaine was "endgame". It's Klainer interpretation and assumption. What if he hasn't because they really AREN'T and Ryan/Brad actually hate the endgame concept as much as we do? (Apparently Ryan's notorious for screwing with assumed "endgame" couples on his other shows.))

Adam/Oliver's return or NOT hasn't been addressed either way... AT ALL. So, much like Grant, who we only heard about his return at the very last minute, the same could be for Oliver.

Plus RIB pretty much MUST keep Adam/Oliver returning (or not) hush-hush more than anyone because of the shitstorm his return would cause with k(B)lainers, and they'd rather keep them strung along as long as possible...

And if NOT, they can string US along. Look how they played the Finale: Adam/Kadam's status vague enough that both sides were hopeful. Yet they DID mention him and there was Kurt's Klaine-shade of "oh, we're not a couple" :sips tea:

So... maybe it's just "darkest before the dawn"?  

I don't believe in this theory for a nano-second, but just the idea, I want to make love to it. It sounds so wonderful  

[Glorfindel]

It's a wonderful theory, but if they really have seen the light and concluded that the Blaine overload in season 4 did not do the show any favors, they wouldn't risk losing even more viewers (permanently) at the beginning of season 5 by giving them a Blaine overload again.

Some viewers who hated season 4 will be inclined to give the show another chance in the hope that season 5 will be better (e.g. NY bound). However, the show will be judged and deemed worthy/unworty to watch in the new season by how the first episodes of that new season are build/put together. These viewers will not hold on till after the hiatus to see if Glee has changed its tune (no pun intended, lol). They will see more Blaine and noobs, and the NY characters being in boring Lima, and they will turn off their tv's, saying goodbye to Glee for good this time.
Fox cannot risk losing these viewers by expecting them to wait till after they give Blaine and noobs a send-off.

So I'm afraid that Blee it is.
We can only hope that RIB will be stupid again and will try to save the noobs, and in order to do that they will keep Blaine in Lima to prop them up. As they can't keep Blaine in Lima while he's in a LD relationship with Kurt, Kurt will then get a little respite before the inevitable Klaine reunion as soon as Blaine eventually moves to NY.

[Lottie2303]

^ Yup. Agreed on all points.

Seriously, they will have amazing numbers for the third episode (due to general interest) and then it may crash and burn, after the hiatus. The fact that Glee is all about Blaine and the Noobs the first episodes, is a disaster. All those non-Blarren fans will be once again reminded why they don't enjoy the show anymore. Giving Blaine so much attention, after the loud criticism in S4 about over-exposure, is a disaster about to happen.

[AnneNeville]

Well said, Lottie and Marie. Welcome, teardrop!

[AnneNeville]

What IF all this Blarren overload in the first few episodes is because, yeah, they are transitioning the show from Lima and  towards NY... and Blaine ISN'T going with it?

Ryan did say last year that he 'never said Blaine was going to NY'. I always thought it was such an odd thing to say when just about everyone assumes Blaine would be.

Maybe all the Blaine, Blaine, Blaine of S4 too was just a 'parting gift' to the Blainers/Klainers? Fox/RIB have to have seen the ratings/itunes numbers and that Darren/Blaine actually AREN'T an asset to the show and any desired profit, rather a liability.

Fans/viewers have been leaving in droves or at least voicing annoyance (and/or the threat of leaving) in ever growing numbers with Blaine/Klaine.

If Glee is shifting from Lima to NY, or at least adjusting focus towards NY, it's from fan/viewer outcry of dislike for the noobs/McKinley and preference for NY (and the ratings support it). AND in those complaints were also a deluge of "Enough Blaine/Klaine!"

Adam Lambert is apparently for NY and KURT. They're constructing quite a lot of new NY sets. And casting for new characters mostly seem destined for the NY side.

(Also, Ryan nor Brad have EVER said Klaine was "endgame". It's Klainer interpretation and assumption. What if he hasn't because they really AREN'T and Ryan/Brad actually hate the endgame concept as much as we do? (Apparently Ryan's notorious for screwing with assumed "endgame" couples on his other shows.))

Adam/Oliver's return or NOT hasn't been addressed either way... AT ALL. So, much like Grant, who we only heard about his return at the very last minute, the same could be for Oliver.

Plus RIB pretty much MUST keep Adam/Oliver returning (or not) hush-hush more than anyone because of the shitstorm his return would cause with k(B)lainers, and they'd rather keep them strung along as long as possible...

And if NOT, they can string US along. Look how they played the Finale: Adam/Kadam's status vague enough that both sides were hopeful. Yet they DID mention him and there was Kurt's Klaine-shade of "oh, we're not a couple" :sips tea:

So... maybe it's just "darkest before the dawn"?  

The optimistic side of me remembers that Darren all of a sudden got negative and critical if Klaine at the beginning of the summer (around the time Jenna was quoted as saying that she chose Glee, but it didn't choose her). The pessimistic side of me says that hoping Blaine will be transitioned off the show or kept in Lima while the focus moves to NYC is naive.

Klaine-stans love to mock Oliver and how he didn't make an impact on the fans. But is that true? For how little screentime he has had, hasn't Adam made an impact? Hasn't Kadam actually been a well-liked ship (I follow a limited number of people)?

I would like to be optimistic. It's more fun than pessimism.

[Ranwing]

I'm not going to blow sunshine up anyone's ass here, but I'm going to keep in mind that outside of a few songs and that Adam Lambert is joining the cast (and will be part of Kurt's storyline) we really know nothing about how the season is going to play out. We have our (very reasonable given how the show played out in the past) concerns and it makes sense o expect the worst (if only to avoid disappointment). We're trying to read tea leaves here and so often the spoilers didn't nearly the whole story. Maybe I am just fooling myself, but I'm going to wait until at least the first few episodes air before I start pulling the fire alarm.

[SippyCupofLuv]

It's a wonderful theory, but if they really have seen the light and concluded that the Blaine overload in season 4 did not do the show any favors, they wouldn't risk losing even more viewers (permanently) at the beginning of season 5 by giving them a Blaine overload again.

Some viewers who hated season 4 will be inclined to give the show another chance in the hope that season 5 will be better (e.g. NY bound). However, the show will be judged and deemed worthy/unworty to watch in the new season by how the first episodes of that new season are build/put together. These viewers will not hold on till after the hiatus to see if Glee has changed its tune (no pun intended, lol). They will see more Blaine and noobs, and the NY characters being in boring Lima, and they will turn off their tv's, saying goodbye to Glee for good this time.
Fox cannot risk losing these viewers by expecting them to wait till after they give Blaine and noobs a send-off.

So I'm afraid that Blee it is.
We can only hope that RIB will be stupid again and will try to save the noobs, and in order to do that they will keep Blaine in Lima to prop them up. As they can't keep Blaine in Lima while he's in a LD relationship with Kurt, Kurt will then get a little respite before the inevitable Klaine reunion as soon as Blaine eventually moves to NY.

Unless they're going into this KNOWING that at the break there was going to be a PR campaign promoting a "New Glee" or some such? Didn't they refer to Glee's return after the break as a "reset" or something like that? At the news of Glee's renewal for 2! seasons, they mentioned "reviving Glee" Or a term similar.

At the least FOX knows there's a problem that needs fixing and the terms used for the new season were NOT indicative of continuing down the same failed path of S3 and especially S4, which a sensible person would see the failure was the over-focus of Blane and the noobs.

The only parts that worked in S4 were NY (including Adam and the Apples) and some of Finn, in Lima (which obviously is impossible now with Cory's passing   )

Fox is already in a bind with all the viewers they've already lost and the only hope of getting them back is letting them know what's changing. A bad start to the season, but with hints that there's "a change a-coming", BIG changes, could allow them closure on the 'old ways' which weren't working but can't just be dropped out of nowhere, while building towards the "new" direction of the show.

A big ad campaign will be needed to get viewers back anyway. I can't believe Fox is HAPPY with S4 (or S3) ratings. Glee may still bring in enough viewers to make them $$$ but it used to make them A LOT more. They must want as much of that back as they can get and a NY reset is the only potential to do so, which Fox must know or else the show wouldn't be obviously shifting that way.

It could be like when a business goes through a severe renovation and/or change in management, to the point where the building itself is torn down and they rebuild from scratch. There's always a big "Grand Reopening" campaign to let customers both know TO come back and entice them to WANT to.

Yeah, this all could just be the beginnings of even 'Blee'ker times. BUT doing so makes NO sense business-wise if Fox and/or RIB want to keep an audience and actually make $$$.

However, playing both sides until they can 'afford' to drop the Klainers and rebuild their viewership on something actually sustainable and a lot less volatile, with the knowledge that a "reboot" and its requisite promotional campaign is on the horizon, does make some sense.

There's so many choices they've made over the past season in particular that were unnecessary and actually counter-productive if their actual end goal was Blee. They've actually seemed to go out of their way to UNDERMINE Blaine.Klaine/Blee at every turn, avoiding choices that they even explicitly dangled into the narrative and then "lol nope", like the blangst of Blaine's Sadie Hawkins 'trauma' or "Blaine's homophobic dad".

It's like RIB really don't want Blaine sympathetic, at all, even while within G(B)lee-verse Blaine's treated like a hero, special-snowflake by the characters yet NOT the actual narrative itself. We're TOLD Blaine is 'awesome and a hero!!11!' but SHOWN he's a dickbag! And in a way that at least some (if not all) of the time is clearly deliberate.

I think we (and sometimes RIB) forget Glee was/is a satirical dark-comedy, and as such what characters say or do about themselves or about other characters isn't reliable. And the text itself may not explicitly address the disconnect either.

Look at S1 with Will blackmailing Finn with drugs. It's never SAID to be wrong, hell it WORKED. But we're should KNOW it wasn't right. Same with Terri and Will's marriage and how she treated him, it was implicit that she and their relationship is awful. Or Will being a shit teacher. They gave him "teacher of the year" for crying-out-loud even though he was harmfully neglectful of some of the kids (Kurt!) Hell, the PILOT shows Will completely ignoring Kurt being bullied and then they repeat it in the 2nd episode. We're TOLD Will is an amazing teacher who cares so much for his kids, but SHOWN a self-absorbed, small-minded douchebag who neglects not only some of the kids most needing of support, but also some of the most talented (Kurt and Artie).

Or Quinn's abusive treatment of Finn. Hell Mercedes told Puck to let Quinn continue to lie to Finn about Beth because it wasn't Puck's 'place' to tell (which, NO!) We were supposed to side-eye these things while the characters may have been encouraging them or even celebrating them.

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of it all. A lot of what happened in S4 (and S3) can't be accidental, and Brad (and even Ryan) have indicated awareness and even agreement with some of the issues with the show/characters (namely Kurt "getting lost in Klaine" and RIB's desire that Kurt succeed) and with a sincerity that actually has played out onscreen, briefly though it may be (ex.: Kadam being so ridiculously healthy in contrast to all the other romantic relationships on the show, even the adults! It shows they know how to do it right and what's wrong with Klaine.) So SOMETHING is going on.

That said, no matter how much they may have meant the narrative path they laid out thus far, I do realize both Ryan and outside forces can so arbitrarily just go "nah!" and scrap it all for pandering bullshit.

So while I do have hope, -- actually after Chris' comments about Fox "teasing" AND the lovely Oliver/Adam comments, I have a greater sense of hope-- , I understand the pessimism and dread for what may come, because I feel it too. I just don't know how to cope with irrationality, and will try to make sense of it until it's clearly pointless.

[AnneNeville]

Finn, like Blaine (though perhaps to a lesser extent), was always explicitly treated as a hero, and his behavior is often atrocious.

I do see all Fox's talk about rebooting and resetting, etc. I have to wonder, though, if there is actually ANY hope of regaining lost viewers. Are people ever going to come back, no matter how they retool the show? Or will they make the reasonable assumption that they have to hold on to the viewers they have?

Has a show dropped as far as Glee has then suddenly, after a two year slump, turned around and gotten popular again?

[SippyCupofLuv]

The optimistic side of me remembers that Darren all of a sudden got negative and critical if Klaine at the beginning of the summer (around the time Jenna was quoted as saying that she chose Glee, but it didn't choose her). The pessimistic side of me says that hoping Blaine will be transitioned off the show or kept in Lima while the focus moves to NYC is naive.

Klaine-stans love to mock Oliver and how he didn't make an impact on the fans. But is that true? For how little screentime he has had, hasn't Adam made an impact? Hasn't Kadam actually been a well-liked ship (I follow a limited number of people)?

I would like to be optimistic. It's more fun than pessimism.

It's exactly those sorts of things that all piece together to something hopeful for me. Darren has been distancing himself from Klaine since the latter part of last season, but the quote you're referring to was much more 'negative' than he usually has been. TCA's aside, Fox seems to be distancing themselves from Darren (ex: not submitting him for Emmy consideration when cast members with less 'seniority' or screentime were.)

While I'm not expecting Blaine to not go to NY, I still wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. Ryan's tweet still sticks with me as so strange that I wonder. And all it would take is some Fox executive, (or even Darren getting on Ryan's bad side) to decide Blaine/Darren is too much of a liability for the ratings they want for Darren to be gone.

And lets be real, MOST of the fandom would CHEER and throw a virtual (or even real) party!

As for Oliver/Adam, yeah they had an impact. Not as big as Blaine/Darren did at his debut but then the show was watched by over 10 million people when Darren showed up. Now, partly because of Darren/Blaine imo, the viewership is averaging HALF that at best. For having half the people see him AND coming into the dynamics of an existing ship, Oliver/Adam had a significant impact.

Klainers were even jumping ship or choosing to multi-ship Kadam because Adam was so sweet and adorable. Or at the least there were the constant posts from Klainers in the Kadam tag of "I really like Adam and hope he stays... BUT as Kurt's FRIEND." Klainers were even getting "excommunicated" by the more rabid ones.

ONTD-Glee, which is notorious for enjoying being bitchy about most everyone, embraced Oliver/Adam and I have yet to see a negative comment there about either of them since his first appearance on the show.

Even some diehard Klaine media sites had glowing comments about Adam/Oliver ('That Kurt should get him some of that English Muffin... until he and Blaine get back together.') Or some more neutral ones mentioning how Adam, and the Apples, were "a breath of fresh air" and 'the most like the Glee everyone fell in love with than Glee has felt like in a long long time', a 'return to Glee being the story of the underdog/outcasts', etc.)

The problem is, like I mentioned the viewership not being what it was when Darren joined the cast, and the media and even fans being so brainwashed/payed-off about Klaine/Blaine, Adam/Oliver's impact has been muted from what it COULD be.

The fact that in spite of all the disadvantages/obstacles against him he's had the impact he has should give RIB reason to keep him around. They have to realize, especially given the care they have taken with the scenes he did have, that it's not that fans don't like him (except for the batshit, obnoxious k(B)lainers) because a lot do, it's really that everyone's too pessimistic to allow themselves to get attached to a character/actor who could just vanish into an "update, ya'll".

If they gave him more time to shine and win people over regardless of their fears, he'd easily be more popular than Blaine (though not a difficult task, since most of fandom dislikes Blaine.) And seeing Chris continue to come alive in his scenes with Oliver, clearly loving working with him vs his "It's my job" dynamic in his scenes with Darren, it wouldn't take much for most of the fans/viewers to be "Who's Blaine?"

[opals]

It's a wonderful theory, but if they really have seen the light and concluded that the Blaine overload in season 4 did not do the show any favors, they wouldn't risk losing even more viewers (permanently) at the beginning of season 5 by giving them a Blaine overload again.

Some viewers who hated season 4 will be inclined to give the show another chance in the hope that season 5 will be better (e.g. NY bound). However, the show will be judged and deemed worthy/unworty to watch in the new season by how the first episodes of that new season are build/put together. These viewers will not hold on till after the hiatus to see if Glee has changed its tune (no pun intended, lol). They will see more Blaine and noobs, and the NY characters being in boring Lima, and they will turn off their tv's, saying goodbye to Glee for good this time.
Fox cannot risk losing these viewers by expecting them to wait till after they give Blaine and noobs a send-off.

So I'm afraid that Blee it is.
We can only hope that RIB will be stupid again and will try to save the noobs, and in order to do that they will keep Blaine in Lima to prop them up. As they can't keep Blaine in Lima while he's in a LD relationship with Kurt, Kurt will then get a little respite before the inevitable Klaine reunion as soon as Blaine eventually moves to NY.

Unless they're going into this KNOWING that at the break there was going to be a PR campaign promoting a "New Glee" or some such? Didn't they refer to Glee's return after the break as a "reset" or something like that? At the news of Glee's renewal for 2! seasons, they mentioned "reviving Glee" Or a term similar.

At the least FOX knows there's a problem that needs fixing and the terms used for the new season were NOT indicative of continuing down the same failed path of S3 and especially S4, which a sensible person would see the failure was the over-focus of Blane and the noobs.

The only parts that worked in S4 were NY (including Adam and the Apples) and some of Finn, in Lima (which obviously is impossible now with Cory's passing   )

Fox is already in a bind with all the viewers they've already lost and the only hope of getting them back is letting them know what's changing. A bad start to the season, but with hints that there's "a change a-coming", BIG changes, could allow them closure on the 'old ways' which weren't working but can't just be dropped out of nowhere, while building towards the "new" direction of the show.

A big ad campaign will be needed to get viewers back anyway. I can't believe Fox is HAPPY with S4 (or S3) ratings. Glee may still bring in enough viewers to make them $$$ but it used to make them A LOT more. They must want as much of that back as they can get and a NY reset is the only potential to do so, which Fox must know or else the show wouldn't be obviously shifting that way.

It could be like when a business goes through a severe renovation and/or change in management, to the point where the building itself is torn down and they rebuild from scratch. There's always a big "Grand Reopening" campaign to let customers both know TO come back and entice them to WANT to.

Yeah, this all could just be the beginnings of even 'Blee'ker times. BUT doing so makes NO sense business-wise if Fox and/or RIB want to keep an audience and actually make $$$.

However, playing both sides until they can 'afford' to drop the Klainers and rebuild their viewership on something actually sustainable and a lot less volatile, with the knowledge that a "reboot" and its requisite promotional campaign is on the horizon, does make some sense.

There's so many choices they've made over the past season in particular that were unnecessary and actually counter-productive if their actual end goal was Blee. They've actually seemed to go out of their way to UNDERMINE Blaine.Klaine/Blee at every turn, avoiding choices that they even explicitly dangled into the narrative and then "lol nope", like the blangst of Blaine's Sadie Hawkins 'trauma' or "Blaine's homophobic dad".

It's like RIB really don't want Blaine sympathetic, at all, even while within G(B)lee-verse Blaine's treated like a hero, special-snowflake by the characters yet NOT the actual narrative itself. We're TOLD Blaine is 'awesome and a hero!!11!' but SHOWN he's a dickbag! And in a way that at least some (if not all) of the time is clearly deliberate.

I think we (and sometimes RIB) forget Glee was/is a satirical dark-comedy, and as such what characters say or do about themselves or about other characters isn't reliable. And the text itself may not explicitly address the disconnect either.

Look at S1 with Will blackmailing Finn with drugs. It's never SAID to be wrong, hell it WORKED. But we're should KNOW it wasn't right. Same with Terri and Will's marriage and how she treated him, it was implicit that she and their relationship is awful. Or Will being a shit teacher. They gave him "teacher of the year" for crying-out-loud even though he was harmfully neglectful of some of the kids (Kurt!) Hell, the PILOT shows Will completely ignoring Kurt being bullied and then they repeat it in the 2nd episode. We're TOLD Will is an amazing teacher who cares so much for his kids, but SHOWN a self-absorbed, small-minded douchebag who neglects not only some of the kids most needing of support, but also some of the most talented (Kurt and Artie).

Or Quinn's abusive treatment of Finn. Hell Mercedes told Puck to let Quinn continue to lie to Finn about Beth because it wasn't Puck's 'place' to tell (which, NO!) We were supposed to side-eye these things while the characters may have been encouraging them or even celebrating them.

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of it all. A lot of what happened in S4 (and S3) can't be accidental, and Brad (and even Ryan) have indicated awareness and even agreement with some of the issues with the show/characters (namely Kurt "getting lost in Klaine" and RIB's desire that Kurt succeed) and with a sincerity that actually has played out onscreen, briefly though it may be (ex.: Kadam being so ridiculously healthy in contrast to all the other romantic relationships on the show, even the adults! It shows they know how to do it right and what's wrong with Klaine.) So SOMETHING is going on.

That said, no matter how much they may have meant the narrative path they laid out thus far, I do realize both Ryan and outside forces can so arbitrarily just go "nah!" and scrap it all for pandering bullshit.

So while I do have hope, -- actually after Chris' comments about Fox "teasing" AND the lovely Oliver/Adam comments, I have a greater sense of hope-- , I understand the pessimism and dread for what may come, because I feel it too. I just don't know how to cope with irrationality, and will try to make sense of it until it's clearly pointless.

I have decided that whenever this stupid show or spoilers get me down, I'm going to re read all your posts and hope that you're right.  

[sheny]

I don't think they would waste so much time on Blaine and risk losing more viewers with the Blee overload if they were really planning to let Darren go a few episodes later. When Heather left she didn't have 1 solo and 3 duets in one episode.

[AnneNeville]

I don't think they would waste so much time on Blaine and risk losing more viewers with the Blee overload if they were really planning to let Darren go a few episodes later. When Heather left she didn't have 1 solo and 3 duets in one episodes.

Yeah, and obviously they are planning to keep McKinley since they promoted so many newbies. So if Darren were going to be graduating and leaving the show or getting reduced, they'd be giving some leadership roles to some of the newbies. They need their new Hero.

[SippyCupofLuv]

Finn, like Blaine (though perhaps to a lesser extent), was always explicitly treated as a hero, and his behavior is often atrocious.

I do see all Fox's talk about rebooting and resetting, etc. I have to wonder, though, if there is actually ANY hope of regaining lost viewers. Are people ever going to come back, no matter how they retool the show? Or will they make the reasonable assumption that they have to hold on to the viewers they have?

Has a show dropped as far as Glee has then suddenly, after a two year slump, turned around and gotten popular again?

But at least with Finn often there were repercussions to his moments of doucheyness, even while he was being called a 'hero', the meta-narrative implied otherwise or Karma bit back. Although I admit I'm thinking more of S1-2, since those are the seasons I know best.

Plus, whether it was Cory's performance or also a difference in the writing compared to Blaine's, Finn still was layered and sympathetic, or at least redeemable when he did screw up. Maybe it was his earnestness, that we still knew Finn meant to be a good guy and do right by people, even if he didn't always succeed, partly because he was still an ignorant teenage boy having to learn to see outside himself and be better.

The thing with Fox and Glee's viewer problem is that k(B)lainers are so entitled and volatile, there's no pleasing them and the way things have been going is chasing off what is actually the larger base of viewers (as seen by several episodes only getting 4 million and change viewers in S4 (Blaine-focused episodes btw. )) Those 6 million+ viewers from S1-2 went SOMEWHERE and originally watch Glee for a reason.

Yeah, it could be a gamble to alienate the k(B)lainers in a bid to regain the viewers they lost. But as long as Darren is on Glee, even if downgraded, they'll watch in expectation of "Klaine-endgame because Ryan 'promised'(even though he didn't)" and seeing their 'puppy-cupcake-woobie!Blarren'.

IF the first episodes aren't what they appear, and are teasing k(B)lainers because of the Blaine focus, but end with Kurt 'lol nope' getting back with Blaine and a clear shift towards a NY narrative in the episodes to follow, they could still retain the initial viewers even with Blaine singing so much.

I know I can put up with it IF it means Kurt is still FREE from Klaine and I'll actually get Kurt stories and a Kurtcheltana (+Adam C. ... and Adam Lambert) focus on Glee's return from mini-hiatus. THAT may be RIB/Fox's gamble.

And if they do treat the rest of the season like a reboot/reset and advertise it as such, then I think it's within reason that they could get former-'Gleeks' back. Especially if they did the smart thing and keep and develop Adam and The Apples within the Kurt/Rachel/NYADA storyline.

People were drawn to Glee partly for the story of outcasts, underdogs, and Glee has strayed from that. If they return to that template/focus I think quite a few viewers would return.

Case in point, I know of at least 2 Glee fans who had stopped watching but started again BECAUSE of Adam and what he meant for Kurt's storyline, or seemed to. Unfortunately, they were soon disappointed when after those 3 episodes all they got was Blee again.

I know my parents are only still watching because I am, BUT would on their own IF Glee focused more on Kurtcheltana in NY, with Adam and The Apples, and NONE FOR BLAINE! (They can't stand Blaine.)

Plus, the episodes that were advertised with a strong NY/HummelBerry presence did among the best out of S4 ratings-wise.

IF people tuned in to see Kurt, Rachel, and Santana in NY and actually GOT Kurt, Rachel, Santana in NY in a satisfying way AND with a promise of more to come, which again, we actually GOT, then I do think Glee can come back from the brink. It also would help if they writing continued like it was for NY, or even better, so Glee got critical buzz again from the media that for a recent change DIDN'T sound like a bunch of 'payolla'-pandering by the media (I'm looking at you After-Elton/E-Online/EW/Etc.)

As for examples, I know there are instances though the only one coming to mind, and it's a mild revive, is Supernatural which had a horrible S6-7 and bounced back last season, S8.

[Lottie2303]

I really, really love your optimism and I hope so much you are actually correct. But I am jaded. I believe in positive Kurt storylines, once I saw the episode myself. I also don't believe they will diminish Blaines character anytime soon. I just hope they may keep him and Sam in Lima. I just want him to stay far away from NYC.

[SippyCupofLuv]

I have decided that whenever this stupid show or spoilers get me down, I'm going to re read all your posts and hope that you're right.  

Awww.  

I really hope I'm right too. And if it helps, last season... I was, quite often, if not in the plot-specifics, at least in the gist.

The 'I Do' hook-up, CWM, the finale/proposal for example I had pegged for being the misdirects and trolling they were. I even called CWM as NOT Klaine-romantic and instead the catalyst for Kadam getting closer/more serious that it was.

Now that's not to say Ryan can't just fuck it all and "Whateva, whateva, I do what I want!" and do everything we DON'T, and that hasn't been a part of the narrative to date, BUT so far he seems more interested in screwing over the Klainers/Blainers, and in the most trolling of ways and has been consistently doing so.

[AnneNeville]

I have decided that whenever this stupid show or spoilers get me down, I'm going to re read all your posts and hope that you're right.  

Awww.  

I really hope I'm right too. And if it helps, last season... I was, quite often, if not in the plot-specifics, at least in the gist.

The 'I Do' hook-up, CWM, the finale/proposal for example I had pegged for being the misdirects and trolling they were. I even called CWM as NOT Klaine-romantic and instead the catalyst for Kadam getting closer/more serious that it was.

Now that's not to say Ryan can't just fuck it all and "Whateva, whateva, I do what I want!" and do everything we DON'T, and that hasn't been a part of the narrative to date, BUT so far he seems more interested in screwing over the Klainers/Blainers, and in the most trolling of ways and has been consistently doing so.

I hope you are right. I think that I guessed some of these things were misdirects, too . . . I'm just getting tired of the teasing and trolling. To tell the truth, as much as I dislike Klaine, I don't like watching the Klainers be trolled.

[SippyCupofLuv]

I don't think they would waste so much time on Blaine and risk losing more viewers with the Blee overload if they were really planning to let Darren go a few episodes later. When Heather left she didn't have 1 solo and 3 duets in one episode.

But she did have almost half an episode focused on her, and was over-focused much of the season too.

I'm not saying they'll outright get rid of Darren/Blaine, just that they will likely dial him back quite a bit. They HAVE to or else they're sabotaging the show. And Darren's career.

Which, who knows, maybe that is what they want. Or at least shaking off the crazy Blarren-stan contingent since they're the ones who threaten and bully the actors/Ryan/other fans. Ryan seems to be arrogant enough to think he can play games with 'his' show and think people will either still watch or it won't matter because he has a 'dozen' other shows in the works.

And again, IF they can make apparent enough that there's big changes coming, he just might be able to play both sides with minimal loss, and even possible gain.

[SippyCupofLuv]

I have decided that whenever this stupid show or spoilers get me down, I'm going to re read all your posts and hope that you're right.  

Awww.  

I really hope I'm right too. And if it helps, last season... I was, quite often, if not in the plot-specifics, at least in the gist.

The 'I Do' hook-up, CWM, the finale/proposal for example I had pegged for being the misdirects and trolling they were. I even called CWM as NOT Klaine-romantic and instead the catalyst for Kadam getting closer/more serious that it was.

Now that's not to say Ryan can't just fuck it all and "Whateva, whateva, I do what I want!" and do everything we DON'T, and that hasn't been a part of the narrative to date, BUT so far he seems more interested in screwing over the Klainers/Blainers, and in the most trolling of ways and has been consistently doing so.

I hope you are right. I think that I guessed some of these things were misdirects, too . . . I'm just getting tired of the teasing and trolling. To tell the truth, as much as I dislike Klaine, I don't like watching the Klainers be trolled.

Honestly for some, I think the only ones who didn't know they were misdirects were the Klainers. lol

And I have no such sympathy for the Klainers. AT ALL. I've been dealing with their bullshit since Blaine arrived in S2 and with the exception of the naive/nice ones (a dying breed) they deserve everything they get and more.

I'm just irritated that everyone else gets caught in the crossfire AND that by constantly choosing to troll Klainers, it means Klaine/Blaine gets more screentime/focus, taking it away from more interesting/important storylines, in order to do so.

But yes, the shadenfreude and Klainer tears each time they get their smug entitled "Klaine5Eva!!!" crushed to dust are  DELICIOUS! It couldn't happen to worse or more deserving fans.... except Crisscolfers (and Chris is crushing their delusions quite beautifully!)

[valkeakuulas]

I like the simple yet 'radical' *what* idea of actually developing Klaine if we cannot get rid of it. Wether that happens with downsizing Blaine into a regular cast, because no way can he become lead, or diminising both Kurt and Blaine to supportive yet developing characters and giving them an interesting back and forth NY storyline with other BF's/suitors, for example Kadam.

And I'm not even talking about acting abilities here because a decent, funny storylines have been done on Glee multiple times with less than stellar cast before.

[MoviesAreLife]

chillwithwillinhell follows me, too, but I have never heard a peep out of her. I didn't even notice until I scrolled through my followers yesterday.

I think he/she just wants to make us uncomfortable, but they haven't said anything as far as I can tell...

"it’s really exciting to show our audience that that is a possibility now."

Warm praise indeed.

Possibility = Hell no!  

Besides, Blaine still lives in Ohio, where gay marriage is not allowed yet. Although I guess they could get married if Blaine moves to New York too.

It makes no sense. But it is Glee we're talking about....

It makes no sense for Kurt and Adam to suddenly "not work out" either .

By the way, my tumblr is www.irethearfalas.tumblr.com. Going to follow all of you who I don't already follow .

ETA: can't find you on tumblr, kac and MoviesAreLife!

The "didn't work out" line broke my heart! I hope these spoilers are fake. And I don't have a Tumblr, sorry! I do, however, like to be a creepy lurker and send people anons....nothing bad, though! I promise!

[MoviesAreLife]

after lurcking for a long time here I am, first I post here because there are some things derange me around Chris/Kurt not him but around

About Chris , he's a private person durig those year ALL male around him were coupling with him, yes he chose this work ,and as he decide to be in front for his projects, to be known he must communicate, people has no interest with people they don't know anything about, this is normal, why he uses his twitter, he says during SBL that the promo budget was 0 and he makes all by his twitter.
With TLOS 2 coming he makes sure to give regulary updates of his touristic tour , it's what people like feeling connect with the "star", now what I'm angry with and there I put CC & chrillers in the same category is Chris is private, if he doesn't and he really clearly say that , why people continue to post all pics they find about Will on internet, I have had a tumblr by just follow Chris, I hate that regulary I must unfollow so many people during events because as Chris say nothing about him, worst says he wants to protect, having him on my dash seems intrusive, I know this WE will be the same, and I ask a thing is anybody has ever think that after each public (ex sign or Paris premiere) where Will is and seems that lots of fans intruse his life too much (at his place, being near Chris and seing people photograph me makes me feels strange) the day after Will stays in the back not visible, that must say something, they try to front Will thinking people will respect him and not seing the event as chrill is here but it's chris project but each time, it feels that Will not feels well with that. I can totaly understand interviews actually,  he works so hard to buit his name to just to be relay at a part of Klaine, of chrill, and I totally understand why he doesn't want to say that he's dating, because people won't interest in him anymore but will he wants to get marry soon (funny with people who are bashing about klaine propose SL but are dreaming of a soon Chris engage with kids too)

About Kurt, as it seems the school year could be finish sooner than we thought, if prom ep02, before Cory events, as they have had push 4 episodes before hiatus, and to go to the next year they need to do that after a hiatus (little jump) I really feel that they would have like finish the year before hiatus (may be not even nationals sl with all choirs ep01), with Cory death, I don't know what they'll do because if there will be 7 episode after hiatus, who must take place after prom, that would be too long, but my fright is if school year end ep 03, it seems actually, they try to light NY side to just Rachel (wich I think now could have not funny girl) letting other characters in Lima, may be to prepare the transition to NY , my fright is that kurt seems one more time have so light POV in the BU SL going back to Blaine without expressing himself in ep 01, and now the idea that Blaine could come sooner than later in NY, (I would have prefer Kurt having his own SL) and with Blaine there it will be impossible, i would have like to see them try LD, a phone call and hop, each of them has his life but no, even I'm fright with Adam Lambert, betting how long Blaine stan will complain to RM to interact and sing with Blaine, idem with Rachel Blainche duet, Kurt seems isolate and Blaine in NY will isolate him even more. Betting too Blaine arrive in NY everybody fall in love with him and Kurt become jealous, and who will lose all one more time.... : Kurt and Chris the same way because without songs, SL people  take care less of him.

Hi teardrop! Welcome to the board!

Yes, Chris is private. And you're right, some fans are a bit invasive when it comes to his privacy...fans on both sides of the debate. Those who support "Chill" (I know it's not a ship, but a real romance) are just so happy he found someone in real life, and that happiness extends to curiosity, sometimes too much curiosity. I'll admit, I squealed when I saw that video of Chris holding hands with Will in Paris, even if it was taken by a creepy, stalker-ish paparazzi. Chris would've probably been uncomfortable if he knew the video existed....maybe even furious.

[sheny]

chillwithwillinhell follows me, too, but I have never heard a peep out of her. I didn't even notice until I scrolled through my followers yesterday.

I think he/she just wants to make us uncomfortable, but they haven't said anything as far as I can tell...

"it’s really exciting to show our audience that that is a possibility now."

Warm praise indeed.

Possibility = Hell no!  

Besides, Blaine still lives in Ohio, where gay marriage is not allowed yet. Although I guess they could get married if Blaine moves to New York too.

It makes no sense. But it is Glee we're talking about....

It makes no sense for Kurt and Adam to suddenly "not work out" either .

By the way, my tumblr is www.irethearfalas.tumblr.com. Going to follow all of you who I don't already follow .

ETA: can't find you on tumblr, kac and MoviesAreLife!

The "didn't work out" line broke my heart! I hope these spoilers are fake. And I don't have a Tumblr, sorry! I do, however, like to be a creepy lurker and send people anons....nothing bad, though! I promise!

If they are really breaking them up can't they at least do it properly.  We never saw their relationship develop and now even the end of it will be off screen.

[MoviesAreLife]

I agree that if the school year ends in the first episodes, Blaine will be in NY right after that (unless they keep him in Lima to prop up the newbies, like Finn did last year).
I don't think they will let Kurt return to Lima (to prop up the noobs) unless they are so sickening horrible that they will use the death of Finn to make Kurt decide to stay in Lima. But I bet that Chris would fight that scenario with tooth and nail (as he recently said in an interview that Kurt would be absent at his 10th year high school reunion).

So the most likely thing to happen if the school year ends soon (and if the focus indeed shifts to NY) will be that Blaine will be in NY very soon too. And that means no long distance relationship for Kurt and Blaine. And that's exactly how RIB want it.
Blaine cheated because he couldn't handle a LD relationship, and we saw nothing ever since that he worked on that problem. It is very likely that Blaine still can't handle a LD relationship, so RIB will steer clear away from any situation in which Blaine would be in that same position again.

Klaine will never ever have a LD relationship again, because that would raise questions if Blaine will be able to keep it in his pants this time around, and the last thing RIB want is the viewers being reminded of Blaine's cheating the first time.
What they of course completely ignore (or aren't even aware of) is that Klaine coming back together without Blaine having worked on his issues (and arguably Kurt working on communication) means that Kurt will never be able to leave Blaine for longer than a week ever again in the future, because Blaine can't be trusted then.
No foreign internships for Vogue for Kurt, no joining a travelling theatre company, or accepting a role in a movie that must be shot on location. A seperation that lasts longer than a week will be out of the question for Klaine, and just imagine how stifling and limiting a relationship like that will be.

And yes, I also fear that as soon as Blaine is in NY he will hog the songs and sing with gueststars like Adam Lambert. But this is Blee so I think it's inevitable at this point.
All we can do is to enjoy the little we will get from Kurt, most of us via Kurt edits on tumblr.

This whole scenario disgusts me, especially the bolded.    Kurt having to limit himself and make his life revolved around that asshole and his fragile ego. This sickens me. Do RIB not see how unhealthy this is?? What a GREAT message to send to the stupid kids watching the show. Damn it....

How anyone can support this is beyond me. Certainly no actual fan of Kurt would settle for this. Just as I thought no actual fan of Rachel would support Finchel (RIP, Cory!)

[AnneNeville]

after lurcking for a long time here I am, first I post here because there are some things derange me around Chris/Kurt not him but around

About Chris , he's a private person durig those year ALL male around him were coupling with him, yes he chose this work ,and as he decide to be in front for his projects, to be known he must communicate, people has no interest with people they don't know anything about, this is normal, why he uses his twitter, he says during SBL that the promo budget was 0 and he makes all by his twitter.
With TLOS 2 coming he makes sure to give regulary updates of his touristic tour , it's what people like feeling connect with the "star", now what I'm angry with and there I put CC & chrillers in the same category is Chris is private, if he doesn't and he really clearly say that , why people continue to post all pics they find about Will on internet, I have had a tumblr by just follow Chris, I hate that regulary I must unfollow so many people during events because as Chris say nothing about him, worst says he wants to protect, having him on my dash seems intrusive, I know this WE will be the same, and I ask a thing is anybody has ever think that after each public (ex sign or Paris premiere) where Will is and seems that lots of fans intruse his life too much (at his place, being near Chris and seing people photograph me makes me feels strange) the day after Will stays in the back not visible, that must say something, they try to front Will thinking people will respect him and not seing the event as chrill is here but it's chris project but each time, it feels that Will not feels well with that. I can totaly understand interviews actually,  he works so hard to buit his name to just to be relay at a part of Klaine, of chrill, and I totally understand why he doesn't want to say that he's dating, because people won't interest in him anymore but will he wants to get marry soon (funny with people who are bashing about klaine propose SL but are dreaming of a soon Chris engage with kids too)

About Kurt, as it seems the school year could be finish sooner than we thought, if prom ep02, before Cory events, as they have had push 4 episodes before hiatus, and to go to the next year they need to do that after a hiatus (little jump) I really feel that they would have like finish the year before hiatus (may be not even nationals sl with all choirs ep01), with Cory death, I don't know what they'll do because if there will be 7 episode after hiatus, who must take place after prom, that would be too long, but my fright is if school year end ep 03, it seems actually, they try to light NY side to just Rachel (wich I think now could have not funny girl) letting other characters in Lima, may be to prepare the transition to NY , my fright is that kurt seems one more time have so light POV in the BU SL going back to Blaine without expressing himself in ep 01, and now the idea that Blaine could come sooner than later in NY, (I would have prefer Kurt having his own SL) and with Blaine there it will be impossible, i would have like to see them try LD, a phone call and hop, each of them has his life but no, even I'm fright with Adam Lambert, betting how long Blaine stan will complain to RM to interact and sing with Blaine, idem with Rachel Blainche duet, Kurt seems isolate and Blaine in NY will isolate him even more. Betting too Blaine arrive in NY everybody fall in love with him and Kurt become jealous, and who will lose all one more time.... : Kurt and Chris the same way because without songs, SL people  take care less of him.

Hi teardrop! Welcome to the board!

Yes, Chris is private. And you're right, some fans are a bit invasive when it comes to his privacy...fans on both sides of the debate. Those who support "Chill" (I know it's not a ship, but a real romance) are just so happy he found someone in real life, and that happiness extends to curiosity, sometimes too much curiosity. I'll admit, I squealed when I saw that video of Chris holding hands with Will in Paris, even if it was taken by a creepy, stalker-ish paparazzi. Chris would've probably been uncomfortable if he knew the video existed....maybe even furious.

I believe that paparazzi have to be called in Paris. After Princess Diana died being chased by paps, the laws got more stringent (any French posters here?). Thus, if Chris and Will didn't call that videographer, who followed them all over, it would be illegal.

I think that they called that videographer and used Paris as a way to introduce themselves as a couple. It was strategic.

[AnneNeville]

I agree that if the school year ends in the first episodes, Blaine will be in NY right after that (unless they keep him in Lima to prop up the newbies, like Finn did last year).
I don't think they will let Kurt return to Lima (to prop up the noobs) unless they are so sickening horrible that they will use the death of Finn to make Kurt decide to stay in Lima. But I bet that Chris would fight that scenario with tooth and nail (as he recently said in an interview that Kurt would be absent at his 10th year high school reunion).

So the most likely thing to happen if the school year ends soon (and if the focus indeed shifts to NY) will be that Blaine will be in NY very soon too. And that means no long distance relationship for Kurt and Blaine. And that's exactly how RIB want it.
Blaine cheated because he couldn't handle a LD relationship, and we saw nothing ever since that he worked on that problem. It is very likely that Blaine still can't handle a LD relationship, so RIB will steer clear away from any situation in which Blaine would be in that same position again.

Klaine will never ever have a LD relationship again, because that would raise questions if Blaine will be able to keep it in his pants this time around, and the last thing RIB want is the viewers being reminded of Blaine's cheating the first time.
What they of course completely ignore (or aren't even aware of) is that Klaine coming back together without Blaine having worked on his issues (and arguably Kurt working on communication) means that Kurt will never be able to leave Blaine for longer than a week ever again in the future, because Blaine can't be trusted then.
No foreign internships for Vogue for Kurt, no joining a travelling theatre company, or accepting a role in a movie that must be shot on location. A seperation that lasts longer than a week will be out of the question for Klaine, and just imagine how stifling and limiting a relationship like that will be.

And yes, I also fear that as soon as Blaine is in NY he will hog the songs and sing with gueststars like Adam Lambert. But this is Blee so I think it's inevitable at this point.
All we can do is to enjoy the little we will get from Kurt, most of us via Kurt edits on tumblr.

This whole scenario disgusts me, especially the bolded.    Kurt having to limit himself and make his life revolved around that asshole and his fragile ego. This sickens me. Do RIB not see how unhealthy this is?? What a GREAT message to send to the stupid kids watching the show. Damn it....

How anyone can support this is beyond me. Certainly no actual fan of Kurt would settle for this. Just as I thought no actual fan of Rachel would support Finchel (RIP, Cory!)

I'd like to send Kurt a link to ChumpLady.com.

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