Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

[tanita_mors]

also WTF with this trend that in episodes that have equal amount of NY and Lima we beck ONE NY song and a billion Lima ones. I'm soooooooooooooooooooo over that shit.

[Glorfindel]

^Did the New York side really get equal screentime this episode, because it didn't feel that way to me?

[AnneNeville]

^Did the New York side really get equal screentime this episode, because it didn't feel that way to me?

I don't know . . . I haven't been able to bring myself to watch. At the Ballet is pretty impossible to cut, though, and it is almost six minutes long. That's a lot of screentime in NYC.

[tanita_mors]

more or less. i mean, probably not in minutes, but lima had like 5-6 songs + those convos in between. it was as equal as it's going to get with this split and these show runners that have a hard on for blareen and the noobs.

[Glorfindel]

I don't know . . . I haven't been able to bring myself to watch. At the Ballet is pretty impossible to cut, though, and it is almost six minutes long. That's a lot of screentime in NYC.

They easily could have cut either the 2nd or the 3rd verse of 'At The Ballet'. My guess is that they didn't because some Blaine (Nightbird and Becky interrogation) were cut.


I really like the AV Club review: link. He gave the episode a C-.

[brisallie]

...
and compulsory songs that were shoe-horned in just for the sake of wanting to sing these songs. Oh, and of course the Blarren worshipping.
...

To be honest, this doesn't surprise me anymore. Lately I've noticed that are more important the songs than the storyline. As you pointed, if they want to sing a song ,they're going do find the way to sing it, not mattering if doesn't fit at all with the plot, because all what they have to do is change some little details in the script. It should be the other way around.

The good about this episode:



Chris and Naya have the best reactions, especially when acting opposite each other.




Really: Chris and Lea should do a romcom together.

I loved these moments from the episode. I also noticed how naturally are Naya and Chris acting to an specific moment, like a joke between friends. And also I want to see Chris and Lea doing a romcom someday. Btw she looks short next to him, isn't she wearing heels?

Overall I felt they were things that come from nowhere. Like Ryder and his molesting storyline and Santana and his sudden interest in dancing, I can't deny I've always thought she was good at dancing but never was her dream like signing for instance.

They easily could have cut either the 2nd or the 3rd verse of 'At The Ballet'. My guess is that they didn't because some Blaine (Nightbird and Becky interrogation) were cut.

You know, I still thinking At the Ballet wasn't cut, because they already planned to cut the interrogation scene. Personally I would have cut the long speaking dialogue of SJP and I would have left only the singing parts.

[AnneNeville]

...
and compulsory songs that were shoe-horned in just for the sake of wanting to sing these songs. Oh, and of course the Blarren worshipping.
...

To be honest, this doesn't surprise me anymore. Lately I've noticed that are more important the songs than the storyline. As you pointed, if they want to sing a song ,they're going do find the way to sing it, not mattering if doesn't fit at all with the plot, because all what they have to do is change some little details in the script. It should be the other way around.

The good about this episode:



Chris and Naya have the best reactions, especially when acting opposite each other.




Really: Chris and Lea should do a romcom together.

I loved these moments from the episode. I also noticed how naturally are Naya and Chris acting to an specific moment, like a joke between friends. And also I want to see Chris and Lea doing a romcom someday. Btw she looks short next to him, isn't she wearing heels?

Overall I felt they were things that come from nowhere. Like Ryder and his molesting storyline and Santana and his sudden interest in dancing, I can't deny I've always thought she was good at dancing but never was her dream like signing for instance.

They easily could have cut either the 2nd or the 3rd verse of 'At The Ballet'. My guess is that they didn't because some Blaine (Nightbird and Becky interrogation) were cut.

You know, I still thinking At the Ballet wasn't cut, because they already planned to cut the interrogation scene. Personally I would have cut the long speaking dialogue of SJP and I would have left only the singing parts.

The problem with cutting At the Ballet was that--as I understand it--that song was the special request of SJP. You can't cut Santana's verses, or there is no point to the song to the story, and you can't cut SJP's verses, since she is the one that requested the song and they probably want to bring her back in the next season. So--considering that--what and how would you cut the song down from six minutes? By taking away Santana's half and losing the "plot" or by taking away Isabelle's part and alienating the valuable guest star?

Lea Michele is my height (~5'3"-just under 5'4", I think) and Chris Colfer is my husband's height (5'10", right?). It looks like she is NOT wearing heels in that shot.*

* Unless she is even shorter than advertised.

[tanita_mors]

actually, the request was from ryan murphy if i'm not mistaken. he wanted to have SJP doing at the ballet and given that he wrote this episode, so it's no wonder the whole thing was in. it was probably one of his stipulations. cut everything that is extra, just so that whole song makes it in the final cut.

[Glorfindel]

Yes, it was Ryan Murphy being "obsessed" about SJP singing 'At The Ballet', and everything else be damned.
What a way to run a show.

[brisallie]

@Tanita, so it was wrong all of these days and actually was Ryan request?

And I understand the point SJP was the guest star and they can't cut their lines, and Santana's lines were part of the plot. So they should have cut one of Kurt or Rachel lines? I think both of them had only a line actually. But I would have been upset if they cut Kurt's line.

@AnneNeville, you're right about their height. But I've read Lea can be only 5'2 and Chris himself said he's 5'10 or 5'11 in good days

[AnneNeville]

actually, the request was from ryan murphy if i'm not mistaken. he wanted to have SJP doing at the ballet and given that he wrote this episode, so it's no wonder the whole thing was in. it was probably one of his stipulations. cut everything that is extra, just so that whole song makes it in the final cut.

Ah . . . I had understood it being the other way around. But perhaps it was both. SJP wanted it, then Ryan got obsessed with the idea? Either way, cutting it becomes sticky.

I find it confusing--are we supposed to BELIEVE what Santana and Isabelle are singing about their childhoods? Or are they just performing the song from A Chorus Line? Does Santana's part fit well with what we know about her family life?

::scrunches up face::

I'd rather hear Santana/Kurt/Rachel sing "What I Did for Love."

[sheny]

Yes, it was Ryan Murphy being "obsessed" about SJP singing 'At The Ballet', and everything else be damned.
What a way to run a show.

I'm actually happy they didn't cut it. It was a little too long and I got bored after the first half but this scene was 1000 times better than any Blaine/Blam scene and that's exactly what we would have gotten if 'At the Ballet' was cut.

[brisallie]

I find it confusing--are we supposed to BELIEVE what Santana and Isabelle are singing about their childhoods? Or are they just performing the song from A Chorus Line? Does Santana's part fit well with what we know about her family life?...

That's why At the Ballet is confusing, some people are already wondering how much is related to Santana and Isabelle storyline. Because the only thing we know about Santana's family is her dad is a doctor and her mother's name is Maribel, but nothing else. So we have no idea if she has daddy issues as some people is being commented on internet. And as regard Isabelle, I've read they change one of the lyrics and wrote Izzie instead of the original name.

[AnneNeville]

I find it confusing--are we supposed to BELIEVE what Santana and Isabelle are singing about their childhoods? Or are they just performing the song from A Chorus Line? Does Santana's part fit well with what we know about her family life?...

That's why At the Ballet is confusing, some people are already wondering how much is related to Santana and Isabelle storyline. Because the only thing we know about Santana's family is her dad is a doctor and her mother's name is Maribel, but nothing else. So we have no idea if she has daddy issues as some people is being commented on internet. And as regard Isabelle, I've read they change one of the lyrics and wrote Izzie instead of the original name.

Usually, it's clear when a character is singing a song just to sing a song, and when they are singing a song because it has something to do with their life (or speaks to it directly--"Rose's Turn"). In this case, it's like the writers didn't care to specify.

[Divalicious]

I watched the Kurt parts last night when I got home, and fastforwarded through most of the rest. I think they may have gotten 1/3 of the time, but I was really tired, so it might not be so.

Kurt was gorgeous, but man, I wish they would give him something that was just his. He felt like a prop to Santana's story, just like he's been a prop to Rachel's story. Or Blaine's story. His only real "own" story has been his tiney, tiny interlude with Adam, may he return soon.

Then I look at Blaine pretty much getting to interact with everyone, plus gets songs.

The way Glee goes overboard, I see Ryder getting huge story next year, even more than Blaine. Because he is a better actor, and is heterosexual, they can objectify him and torture him all they want. I am more afraid that they will decide to make Kurt more and more part of the scenery. Although they will never find anyone who cries as well, and I still think he is the best younger actor on the show.

Back to the episode.

Even fast forwarding it did seem odd they they didn't simply cancel school. Goes to how Glee pushes reality away, and then expects us to accept something that is supposed to be real. Like the school shooting, or someone getting abused. Funny that they let Artie be the voice of the average guy where sex=good, at any age, when he was the one who was upset Brittney took his virginity and didn't love him.

Jarley continues to be perfectly boring. I wonder if they will have a major breakup at the end of the year to try to make them interesting. I think the writers are much more interested in writing for Kitty and Ryder on that side of the show.

Glad they acknowledged that while Kurt hasn't been at Vogue.com that much, it has been an on-going thing. Found it hilarious that Santana spouts the line that "some of us have to work for a living" when last year her Mom gave her a huge amount of money supposedly so she could go find herself. Kurt does work. Rachel is the only one not having to have a job outside of school.

Funny that Santana has such faith in Kurt's fashion skills that he could heal that messed up chair. Would be a nice bit of continuity to see it at the end of the season all beautiful, because Kurt can't resist a makeover.

SJP remained lovely, and I am kind of happy that Santana didn't walk into a glamorous Vogue model role, at least not right now, because that does keep Vogue Kurt's. Even if it has been used to further only Rachel (makeover) and Santana (still making my mind up about my dream) stories.

I might watch it all, and post more tomorrow. Got to go to work soon, and I need major caffeine intake to get me there.

[sheny]

The Backlot (AfterElton) Glee Recap

Previously on Glee, Santana finally moved to New York with Kurt and Rachel, and the family they made there — of one gay lady and one straight lady and one gay man and two boyfriend pillows and one girlfriend pillow — was exactly the kind of urban home situation that makes our hearts grow like the Grinch in the presence of Cindy Lou Who, so we were like, “Oh, finally!” And Glee was all, “So what you’re saying is you want to see more Marley and Kitty and Ryder and Jake?” And were like, “No.” And Glee was like, “So yes?” And we were all, “No, is what we said!” And Glee was all, “But what you meant was yes?” And we were like, “No!” And Glee was like, “Fuck you, too bad, here’s Ryder getting Catfished for 600 hours.”

Rachel and Kurt are waiting in the Hummelpezberry Loft to have their weekly confrontation with Santana. You know it’s going to be a serious one when Santana drags a dumpster-diver chair into the loft and they don’t even flip out about bed bugs. Whatever Kurt is wearing is one of the best things Kurt has ever worn. Park Ranger Chic, I guess, is what you would call it. Well, Kurt and Rachel have been talking and they’ve decided that Santana is throwing her life away. She splits her time these days between three jobs: Dancer/bartender at the Coyote Ugly Bar, bouncer at a lesbian beer garden, Barbarella cage dancer. (Wherever did you get that costume idea, Lopez?) Santana rebuffs their rebukes because: a) Some people have to work to make it in the big city, and b) Kurt doesn’t have any room to talk because apparently he works a second job as a singing waiter at the Fire Island pancake shack.

OK, HOLD UP.

You mean to tell me that Santana has been dancing around in a cage in a Barbarella costume and Kurt has been singing and slinging pancakes on Fire Island, and instead of seeing those greatest things in the world, I have been subjected to six full hours of watching Ryder type on a computer? Seriously, Glee? SERIOUSLY?

Santana says she’s still sorting out her dreams.

Vogue.com offices. Everyone is in the mood for heart-to-hearts today. Isabelle sits Kurt down and tells him that even though they miss him at his job, she would never stand in the way of a person as beautiful as him pursuing his dreams. Kurt, hilariously: “Thank you, fairy godmother!” And then Isabelle hits him with even more magical news: The celebrity handler she hired for the New York City Ballet Gala succumbed to chicken pox thanks to Barbara Walters, so she needs Kurt to take over. He’s welcome to invite either of his supernaturally gorgeous best friends, if he wants.

Kurt says he’ll literally die if Isabelle gives the job to anyone else and then he goes home to tell Santana and Rachel the big news. This is how Kurt opens doors to announce his presence, because he is perfect.



At the gala, in the presence of of the Gay Fairy Godmother, Santana’s hard exterior cracks and she confesses that she, too, took ballet when she was a little girl. Her abuela enrolled her because she was such a tomboy. She loved it there. What happens next is one of my most favorite things Glee has ever done; certainly, it’s one of the most soulful. Isabelle and Kurt and Rachel and Santana perform “At the Ballet” from A Chorus Line while the ballet goes on all around them and Kurt and Rachel and Santana flashback to their little tutu-ed selves at the barre. Look at them. Look at them.


“Different is nice, but it sure isn’t pretty. / Pretty is what it’s about. / I never met anyone who was different / Who couldn’t figure that out.”

The more I think about Glee, the more I realize it is a show that never could have pleased all of its audience. On one hand, you’ve got your shippers, and god love them, but most harcore shippers don’t watch TV for narrative nuance. And Glee‘s got more ships and subtext ships and crack!ships than any TV show in the history of the entire world. And then you’ve got your minorities, watching for fair and honest visibility. You’ve got your serious thespians and your casual musical theater folks and your Top 40 junkies who’ve never even heard of Marvin Hamlisch. You’ve got your viewers watching for the comedy and your viewers watching for the drama. You’ve even got your viewers watching for the Degrassi-style PSAs. Maybe where Glee went wrong was trying to appeal to all of those people. Maybe in trying to please everyone they ended up pleasing no one. It definitely seems like none of the EPs have ever truly understood what makes Glee work, and more often than not, it seems like they have three completely different visions for the show. So for four seasons, they’ve just been throwing anything and everything at the wall to see what sticks, and yet, they’ve never been able to zero in on a formula of sticky things that work together.

I’m saying that now because I just loved “At the Ballet” so much, and when I said it on Twitter last night, the responses were so polarizing. It was either one of Glee‘s best things or one of Glee‘s most boring things. It either could have gone on for 40 more minutes or should have stopped after 30 seconds. I adored it. I adored it in all my whole heart and it made me wish this show would have the balls to make seasons five and six about these three (and Blaine and Mercedes, too) living out their dreams in New York.

So, but after the performance, Santana is so moved that she decides to sign up for a NYADA extension class, even though, as she says, she is already Wonder Woman. Her little tiny Santana self shows up in class. She reaches her arms out and says, “Don’t forget me again, OK?” And Santana promises she won’t. Grown-up Santana hugs tiny Santana and says she’s got her now.

[x]

[Lottie2303]

Ooooooooooooooookay, juts watched the Kurt edit.

I hate how they treated Santana. This quote sums it up very nicely because I disliked Kurt and Rachel in regards to Santana's current job situation:

Santana protests her intervention: “What is so wrong with taking a little time to figure things out?” “Nothing, but why not doing something in the mean time like taking dance lessons. NYADA has a great extension program for non-students. Something to keep your motor revved,” Kurt says to the woman working three dance-related jobs to support herself in the city.

The slutshaming and perceiving sex as something negative HAS.TO.STOP.NOW.

Also, Kurts second job sounds awesome and I want to see it! Instead we get all the rubbish from MK.

ATB was odd. It looked like they tried to visually sophisticated but didn't have the skills and means. Also why once again another dream sequence? They could have performed (I expected that) in front of the audience.

Bonus: Kurt, Santana and Rachel really play well off each other and their interaction feel very, very natural.

[brisallie]

Thanks for that recap Shiny. And I'm wondering how much that person likes the NY plot, just said nice things about it and these lines were the best

... “Oh, finally!” And Glee was all, “So what you’re saying is you want to see more Marley and Kitty and Ryder and Jake?” And were like, “No.” And Glee was like, “So yes?” And we were all, “No, is what we said!” And Glee was all, “But what you meant was yes?” And we were like, “No!” And Glee was like, “Fuck you, too bad, here’s Ryder getting Catfished for 600 hours.”

RIB are really stubborn ,aren't they? And deaf too.

I like my park ranger chic Kurt


Btw, this's the boobs reference you talked about Tanita. lol

I forgot to say, that I support Santana if she needs time to figure things out. There're lots of teens who left school and had no idea what to do with their life, and sometimes they study a career only as a favor to their parents, but at the end of the semester (as happened with Santana) they realized that isn't what they want for life. So the only thing I want for her is she finds what makes her feel complete as a person.

[AnneNeville]

Thanks for that recap Shiny. And I'm wondering how much that person likes the NY plot, just said nice things about it and these lines were the best

... “Oh, finally!” And Glee was all, “So what you’re saying is you want to see more Marley and Kitty and Ryder and Jake?” And were like, “No.” And Glee was like, “So yes?” And we were all, “No, is what we said!” And Glee was all, “But what you meant was yes?” And we were like, “No!” And Glee was like, “Fuck you, too bad, here’s Ryder getting Catfished for 600 hours.”

RIB are really stubborn ,aren't they? And deaf too.

I like my park ranger chic Kurt


Btw, this's the boobs reference you talked about Tanita. lol

Wow, the lighting in that shot is really unflattering. Why did they do that? Chris's face lost all definition!

[brisallie]

Wow, the lighting in that shot is really unflattering. Why did they do that? Chris's face lost all definition!

Right. Either they should have toned down the lighting or he should have worn darker clothing.

[AnneNeville]

Wow, the lighting in that shot is really unflattering. Why did they do that? Chris's face lost all definition!

Right. Either they should have toned down the lighting or he should have worn darker clothing.

The shirt/scarf combo makes disguises the fact that Chris has a really, really good shoulder-to-waist ratio. AND in this shot, his face looks rounder and therefore younger again. I don't think that Chris has gained weight, so it seems like a lighting/makeup/camera angle issue.

I can't help but wonder if it's on purpose (see: desexualization of Kurt's exercise scene vs. Blaine's). Are we going to be submitted to two episodes that try to make Kurt into a baby penguin again? If so, I will seethe.

(I already noted that the shirt they picked for Blaine in the jewelry shop was an uncommonly flattering color for him, and in the aerobics class his hair was coming down, which also improves Blaine's looks).

[brisallie]

I'm sure he didn't gain weight. But now that you're mentioning how unflattering seems to be this combination, I've noticed the shirt looks baggy on him, so it also adds the illusion he's slightly more chubby. But in defense of this outfit, I've to say he looks good in those peppermint jeans.

[AnneNeville]

I'm sure he didn't gain weight. But now that you're mentioning how unflattering seems to be this combination, I've noticed the shirt looks baggy on him, so it also adds the illusion he's slightly more chubby. But in defense of this outfit, I've to say he looks good in those peppermint jeans.

There have been some great stills from that episode, so at least they didn't do this in ALL his scenes. ;-) I just hope they aren't trying to de-sexify Kurt and super-sexify Blaine in preparation for 4x21 and 4x22.

[valkeakuulas]

Just to shout it out first: I really loved At The Ballet and would have wished it was even longer! Just loved it! I'm biased since I love A Chorus Line, but this is the Glee that I want to watch. Why can't Glee have more effective scenes like this.

Somehow Sue's Little Girls gave me the same kind of performance vibe. And they gave a perfect cover to move Sue to NY: she will create a nation wide excersise studio success. And I love how all the kid ballet dancers matched with the stories and the whole feeling of the NY side was so good and balanced.

I was especially disappointed with Everybody Hurts, but I knew I wouldn't like the arragement since the original is so good. I didn't watch other Lima parts, but because Sue I ended watching Call Me (that song is my guilty pleasure)...less said makes me sound less horrible. I'm just ashtonished that some people out there apparently think that Blaine wasn't checking that guy out. For me Blaine is that type of guy that will always have wandering eyes and when he has a weak moment he might go for it, even if he is in a relationship. (And I don't think that is Blaine bashing from me, but just a statement from what I've seen: he likes to look and sometimes act on those feelings aroused from looking. Perfect example of some males in our homo sapiens species.) But even without watching McKinley side, the few glimpses of Jarley just makes me hate them more, NO ONE can make me like them.

More to the rating in my mind: I think I liked this episode as much as a did of Break-Up, perhaps for different reasons but I'd rate this as second best. OK, just based on NY and Sue stories I loved this one. I've not enjoyed a Glee episode like this in a long time. Paris Barcley directing, wait who wrote this...Murphy. Yes, as much as I bash him he knows how to write sometimes, the NY side. The mood of joy and youth and childhood, I really can't place why I liked the NY side so much: the acting, the emotional themes, Santana getting more fleshing out (and I liked how realistic that extended-adult ballet class was presented) and well, on a shallow note: Kurt.

Kurt oh Kurt, I had missed you. His little purse of lips after he thinks he will get told by Isabella. I missed my Kurt.
A solid 9/10 from me for the NY parts.

[sheny]

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