Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread--part 4

[Delight]

@Glorfindel I'm not sure which posts on p_f got you upset, but I'm quite sure that no one would be directing those comments at you. Your support of Chris/Kurt is unquestionable; given how much time and effort you've spent defending him on GF and getting more people to appreciate his singing voice. Fantastica was right. There had been trolls here (GA, we presume) and other forums too, attacking Chris for talking about a fashion career for Kurt and inexplicably pinning the blame on Chris that Kurt somehow ends up in fashion and not NYADA (which, at this point, is still speculation). I think those angry posts on p_f you might have read were directed at GA (or her equivalent).

Negative emotions had been riding high since the bomb about Kurt's rejection by NYADA was dropped; so during this time us hurting Kurtsies have a lot less tolerance to 1) celebratory Klainers Blainers who are glad that Kurt is stuck in Ohio with his bf, and 2) anyone who directs their ire over Kurt's shitty treatment on the show at Chris himself.

You can express what you want here. As you've said, just because you don't agree with Chris at times doesn't make you any less of a fan. I think what the Fox Upfronts had shown us is that Chris probably is less able to freely voice his own mind as much as we thought he could. He could be all upset over how Kurt had been treated this whole season long, but at the end, it's poor form to criticize any aspect of the show that you're professionally required to promote. He couldn't give out any hints of the finale, so he couldn't prepare any of us for the harsh blow of disappointment to Kurtsies that the finale brings.

If anything, I'm more upset over this interview where Lea said something about Kurt's fate is known at the end of the final episode, unlike Rachel's. I mean, really? What's the uncertainty about Rachel's fate? The Finchel 'would they get back together again' uncertainty? And what is certain about Kurt's fate?

[Delight]

i don't think kurt will be in ny early in teh season's premier. SJP won't be on teh show until later in the season (if she appears at all). I don't see kurt getting out of Lima (if he does get out at all) for at least a few episodes - and he maybe totally missing in some of these episodes.

A part of me believes that Kurt got stuck in Lima because they need to get viewers tuning in to the Ohio storyline. It's like Dalton and Warblers all over again.

However, there's still a possibility that the writers would time-skip the heck out of this cliffhanger too. Just think about how they've handled Quinn's car crash. I suppose the time skip wouldn't be too bad in this instance. I don't think I can put up with another half or three-quarters season of Kurt struggling and failing and struggling and failing again, and oh, only to be spared a crumb of victory at long last and Kurt finally gets to follow Rachel to NYC (At this stage, maybe even thoughts of NYC life for Kurt is a tad too optimistic).

[Glorfindel]

Thanks everone for your thoughts and support.
I really thought this was about me, because I was the first here who voiced that opinion. And after having slept only 5 hours in 2 nights because of this mess, the assumption that I could be not loyal to Chris got to me.

And thanks mods for keeping the trolls out. If I was a real Elfenlord instead of just using that fancy name, I'd give you swords and shields made of precious mithril to reward you.

[fantastica]

why do they need kurt to anchor the ohio storyline? you mean the mckinley storyline? he's out of hte choir room now so he can't anchor it even if they want him to. if he appears on the show in lima he would likely be in Lima Beans or breadstix.

[Shinra17]

If anything, I'm more upset over this interview where Lea said something about Kurt's fate is known at the end of the final episode, unlike Rachel's. I mean, really? What's the uncertainty about Rachel's fate? The Finchel 'would they get back together again' uncertainty? And what is certain about Kurt's fate?

She said that? It looks like the total opposite to me. That girl, seriously, I dislike her more and more...

[fantastica]

don't like what she said either.

[Delight]

And thanks mods for keeping the trolls out. If I was a real Elfenlord instead of just using that fancy name, I'd give you swords and shields made of precious mithril to reward you.

I'd accept these virtual swords and shields of mithril from you too, if I have anything to do with the efficient moderating you see around here. Jellyrolls and Shinra are too skilled and too quick for me . Those mithril equipment rightfully goes to them.

why do they need kurt to anchor the ohio storyline? you mean the mckinley storyline? he's out of hte choir room now so he can't anchor it even if they want him to. if he appears on the show in lima he would likely be in Lima Beans or breadstix.

No, Kurt wouldn't be in the choir room; but his physical presence in Ohio would force his fans to watch the episodes that are set in Ohio. Until Kurt gets into NYC, we can't really choose to skip the Ohio episodes. I'm assuming here that they're planning to do an alternating Ohio/NYC episode form of storytelling in Season 4 though, so I may be wrong.

[Glorfindel]

As for Kurt possibly going into fashion instead of music theatre: I'm not that upset about that per se. Of course, as a performer, musical geek and lover of Kurt's voice I would have preferred Kurt in NYADA, because that would mean more Broadway songs from Chris.
But after Kurt being Rachel's gay sidekick for the last few episodes I want Kurt far away from her in his career: no more standing in the shadow of diva Berry. Hummelberry is dead.

My upset about all of this is not that Kurt won't study what I would personally have loved: musical theatre, but that he did not get to have his personal win: to be who he wants to be, to do what he wants to do.
If Kurt himself had preferred fashion in season 3 I'd be more than fine with that.
But he didn't: he chose musical theatre. It was declared his passion, the career he wanted most of all, the dream he tried and cried for all season long.

What is upsetting me is:
- RIB/Fox clearly changed Kurt's furure midway or even at the end of season 3 strictly for policy reasons, aka iTunes sales, aka money.
- RIB kicking Kurt in the balls for almost 2 seasons now for being who he is: a fem gay, but at the same time having the gall to parade their 'inspirational' gay posterboy around, even with cringeworthy meta in the final episode itself with Kurt's voice over.
- No minor personal wins for Kurt throughout the season, to balance out the big loss of not getting NYADA: no competition solo, no achievement, no Presidency: all losses.
- RIB not planting any seeds in the last episodes of Kurt plausible being content with choosing another career than performing, if his NYADA dream fell through. No back-up plan, no doubts about what he wants to do, nothing.
- Kurt nailed his audition. He got the highest praise from a hard to please, seasoned professional. Rachel choked, stalked and clawed her way to another undeserved audition chance, not thinking about Kurt for 1 minute.
Kurt lost, Rachel won. That's not even close to realistic, and it might be considered clever writing (RIB: "look at us being smart: a twist, life is not fair, we fooled you, got ya!"), but it is truly utter bullshit.
- Rachel got 4 episodes of woes, songs and people worshipping her and having her back, and then she won. Kurt lost and he has nothing. Not 10 seconds were spend on how he felt or what he is to do now, not even a hug from Blaine or his dad.
- I understand the concept of cliffhangers and keeping suspense, but this was cruel in a sadistic way.

- Kurt staying the first half of season 4 in Lima as a Lima-loser to anchor the McKinley part of Glee will not do.
- Kurt saying in the first episode of season 4: "Update y'all: I love fashion now! Me fretting over NYADA for a whole season was just a whim, silly me." will not do.
- Even Kurt getting into NYADA because he's a runner up and someone dropped out, will leave a nasty smell: the smell of Kurt once again not being good enough, being 2nd to Rachel, as always.

But most importantly:
There are young Kurtsies out there who are going through a rough time themselves and look to Kurt to find courage and a silver lining. RIB slapped them in their faces in the finale.
I spend half of last night talking to a young European Kurtsie via personal mail (not on this forum), who hadn't gone to school for 2 days because of this. He took Kurt's defeat so hard he is sick to his stomach, and in some ways he's a young Kurt, a young Chris, he's vulnerable.
What RIB did to Kurt, and thereby indirectly to these kids, is unjustifiable, unforgiveable.

[fantastica]

RIB doesn't care about young people who are vulnerable and look up to kurt for inspiration. they did the bullying arc to capture the the topic of the moment. their goal was to be in the press for this hot topic and increase viewership, rather than helping the bullied kids everywhere. of course helping them on the side is all good, but they will never put those kids' needs ahead of their own business or creative decisions.

i feel very bad for chris too. he knows kids look up to kurt for inspiration and support, but he is not int he drivers' seat. he said at the film festival that he wrote SBL for his fans, for kids who have no support system. he intends to use his own work to inspire kids, because he knows he can't rely on glee for that purpose. I am sure he feels very troubled by the finale too, but he's not allowed to say anything negative about the show. I still think that his character got assassinated this year because they got pissed off at him last summer. if he dared to complaine about anythig at all this summer, he may very well lose the opportunity to appear on the show.

[arina]

If anything, I'm more upset over this interview where Lea said something about Kurt's fate is known at the end of the final episode, unlike Rachel's. I mean, really? What's the uncertainty about Rachel's fate? The Finchel 'would they get back together again' uncertainty? And what is certain about Kurt's fate?

She said that? It looks like the total opposite to me. That girl, seriously, I dislike her more and more...

I think they weren't talking about fate of the characters, just about their relatioships...they said Klaine ends in one way or another and Finchel ends with cliff-hanger

[fantastica]

there's a possiblity that lea actually meant kurt will be stuck in lima for S3. they never really said that their characters would be together in NY, didn't they? just fox's executive who were either trolling or was told to say this but personally had no clue.

[Delight]

If anything, I'm more upset over this interview where Lea said something about Kurt's fate is known at the end of the final episode, unlike Rachel's. I mean, really? What's the uncertainty about Rachel's fate? The Finchel 'would they get back together again' uncertainty? And what is certain about Kurt's fate?

She said that? It looks like the total opposite to me. That girl, seriously, I dislike her more and more...

It was the recent interview Chris and Lea had with Kristin de Santos. I didn't want to get my facts wrong, so I re-watched it again. It appears that I may have gotten the rough gist of the interview but not the details, so I'll correct my mistake now. Lea responded that way to Kristin's specific questions about the fates of Finchel and Klaine. So Lea was saying that Finchel had this big cliffhanger, whereas Klaine didn't have one. Lea said, in reference to Klaine, "They don't really have a cliffhanger. Theirs is resolved one way or another."

So, yay, Klaine's fate is resolved in the finale. Oh happy day.

[Glorfindel]

^I never thought the day would come that I would be glad that Kurt at least still has got Blaine.


I need to wash my mouth out now with soap.

[Emile]

I still think that his character got assassinated this year because they got pissed off at him last summer. if he dared to complaine about anythig at all this summer, he may very well lose the opportunity to appear on the show.

I thought that too, but, if this is the case, that's just immature of their part.
It was ridiculous and childish what RIB did last summer, and it would be ridiculous and childish if what they did to Kurt is because of this.

[fantastica]

^ we can never prove their real motive, but it's very clear from teh way they handled his storylines this season, that they indeed do not care about his character anymore. kurt is only a pawn now in rachel's storyline. next season he maybe only a pawn in blaine's storyline too. who knows.

[Delight]

I still think that his character got assassinated this year because they got pissed off at him last summer. if he dared to complaine about anythig at all this summer, he may very well lose the opportunity to appear on the show.

I think it was quite a while ago, in the Snark & Bark thread, where I mentioned that if I have one question to ask Chris it would be 'Ryan Murphy isn't still angry with your about twittergate, is he? I'll sleep better at night knowing that all the crap that Kurt has to put up with in Season 3 isn't somehow his twisted way of punishing you'.

At that time, I didn't even know the full extent of the crap that Kurt will be put through by the end of the season.

[fantastica]

^ I think i remember that, but of course you can't ask him, unless you do so in total private setting and you two are already close friends. on the other hand, unless RIB tells him clearly that they would ruin his character to punish him not even chris can be 100% certain. all we can do is suspect the motive by looking at the results. oh, not to mention they nixed ashley in the very begining of the season.

i just realized that they probably knew in the very beginning of S3 that they wouldn't let kurt get in. that's when they said NYADA only accepts 20 people a year. of coruse they will let rachel in because she is the "star". they only threw kurt in the storyline so they can kick him in the buck repeatedly.they made him lose the presidency and wss male lead so his credits would be extremely weak compared to rachel's. don't tell me they only decide to make him lose in the last minute. they didn't. they planned this arc right from the beginning.

[Delight]

Sigh... I really want to believe that Ryan Murphy still genuinely cares about Chris and Lea. He seems supportive of them, and he still occasionally listens to Chris's suggestions.

I'm not even sure if RM is solely to be blamed for the poor handling of Kurt this season. There are many writers, and each of them wants to tell their own stories, and mostly about their own favourite characters (Like the writer who tended to include significant Brittana scenes in all the episodes he wrote; but surprisingly they're still pretty badly written).

[Glorfindel]

^Personally I think they planned Kurt to go to NYADA too, for the spin-off. Once the spin-off was terminated they had to rethink, but I am of the opinion that they only decided Kurt not getting in when Kevin Reilley of Fox wanted more pop 40, and less showtunes.

[Glorfindel]

I think they tried to prop up other character's popularity and actor's abilities (for awards) with Kurt in season 3. They put him on screen a lot, interacting with Rachel, Santana, Finn, Blaine, Sebastian, Karofsky in their storylines, but hardly gave Kurt a storyline for himself to work with.

They (RIB/Fox) know that whatever Kurt does gets media attention. They know that Chris will be noticed because of his Golden Globe and Emmy nods. By coupling other cast members to him they might get more attention too. And by making Kurt step back storywise, making him less significant in Glee overall, maybe they thought that his 'flame'/shine would spark an interest on the others and Glee's storylines in general, spreading the popularity and awards nominations among them all.

This happened definitely to benefit Blaine/Darren, almost certain Santana/Naya. And of course Karofsky/Max: they clearly went for the Golden Globe speech effect with that storyline.

I think the policy was to shove more characters on Glee to the foreground by using Kurt/Chris as a catalyst, to get better ratings for episodes that featured those other characters heavily, and media attention for their actors. Of course it hurt Kurt/Chris in the process.


Another theory is that Kurt (and Chris) represents the gay factor on Glee too much, and with Brittana (Santana's season arc) and masculine Blaine in the foreground too Kurt had to take a back seat this season. That however didn't keep them from dumping most of the negative consequences of being gay on him, because the other gay characters had to be popular and not Lima losers to sell them better on iTunes and in Teen magazines.
They forgot that Darren and I even dare say Naya can't bring the drama and warmth/emotion that made Kurt's story so compelling in the first place: that was Chris. He didn't get that Golden Globe and Emmy nods for wearing bowties.

[Delight]

they made him lose the presidency and wss male lead so his credits would be extremely weak compared to rachel's. don't tell me they only decide to make him lose in the last minute. they didn't. they planned this arc right from the beginning.

Then they shouldn't have made Kurt into a NYADA finalist.

Then we can see Kurt struggle with the hand that fate has dealt him, and him looking into options and making alternative plans for his future. If Kurt gets fair treatment, he'll be given at least 3 or 4 solos to sing out his angst at being denied his dreams; and his family and all of ND and his bf would be there supporting him through this difficult time.

But no, they let him fail right at the end (after giving him 2 hollow NYADA-related 'victories' in the earlier episodes), and then have him smilingly send off Rachel on the train station platform.

[BlueJazz]

Thanks everone for your thoughts and support.
I really thought this was about me, because I was the first here who voiced that opinion. And after having slept only 5 hours in 2 nights because of this mess, the assumption that I could be not loyal to Chris got to me.

Wow, did you sacrifice your sleeping time for defending Kurt's honor in GF these few days? Thanks for doing that! And please don't ever doubt yourself again because of those statements. I don't think they're referring to you but if they are, just ignore them. People can be ignorant and mean sometimes. I think it's perfectly fine for stans to question CC's opinions in interviews because he's not perfect, neither are we. I'm still waiting for some explanation from him and writers on the finale, though.

[fantastica]

^ they need to get him into the audition so it can contrast w/ rachel's choking. they need this for dramatic effects, and the final results would be so shocking because nobody expected it.

marie: do get some sleep. there's nothing you can do to change kurt's fate now. the only reason you think anybody would doubt your love for kurt/chris is because you didn't sleep enough so your judgment start to get cloudy. i know I am like that when I don't sleep enough.

[paulopf]

I just read on p_f that people are angry at certain Kurt fans because they are disappointed about Chris' enthusiasm at the upfronts. Are they talking about me?

I'm a member of p_f, but I don't always read all the posts, so I haven't seen these comments. Yet, indeed, some of us there can be very overprotective of Chris. I've no idea if the people who made those comments were talking about you specifically. Perhaps, in general, they were talking about so called Colferites who actively /blamed/ Chris for what happened to Kurt and spoke harshly to him or about him. At least those are the ones I refer to when I say that' Chris doesn't need his fans turning against him. But disagreeing with Chris does not mean being a bad stan or not being loyal to him, of course, if people are not rude about it. I read some of your posts about why you were disappointed and, to be honest, I don't really understand why his happiness about Kurt's future is disappointing to you. Also, I wouldn't call him "tactless" for it. But each person see things from a different perspective and, again: disagreeing with Chris is no crime. I surely disagree with him about not wanting to record a solo album and I also disagree with him about calling Carson an inspirational character.

Anyway, don't let those comments get to you, even if you were positive they are addressed to you. You have the right to speak out your mind, and those of us who disagree with some of the things you said, too have the right to speak out our minds as long, of course, as we're not assholes to you for your opinions. If someone is a jerk to you for them, when you haven't been one to Chris (tweeting him in an unsupportive manner and that sort of stuff), they don't deserve your attention and, even less, your distress.

I think most of Chris's fans reacted the way you do, because, after the disappointing that was the last episode, see Chris excited about Kurt's next season SL was sure a bit upsetting. But blame him for this is another story (and tweet him about this is just stupid), becasue he has no fault!
We can disagree with him (we all have different opinions and sure his are not always and universally shareable), but the writers change their mind as the wind turns and Chris has nothing to do with how they write Kurt. At the Upfronts he was relativity happy about his character's SL because it was his job to be: he was there to sell enthusiasm about next season. [/font]

I think most of Chris' fans were indeed disappointed on the way Kurt's story line ended and specially about him not getting resolution. I was. But I doubt most of Chris' fans were upset at him. A lot were intrigued and playfully calling him "trollfer" cause of course he would tease but not confirm anything.

She said that? It looks like the total opposite to me. That girl, seriously, I dislike her more and more...

I'm not a fan of her, but I don't actively dislike her. I'm indifferent, but she surely makes me roll my eyes a lot. To me, she's simply another ambitious startlet, who'll probably climb high with her methods. I've said before that, to me, she's a lot like Darren Criss, as Rachel is a lot like Blaine. About these last two, that's why I don't really understand why some people push for "hummelberry" (gosh, how I dislike that portmanteau) so much and hate klaine with such passion.

[paulopf]

^ they need to get him into the audition so it can contrast w/ rachel's choking. they need this for dramatic effects, and the final results would be so shocking because nobody expected it.

Pfft. They failed. Everyone knew Rachel was gonna get into NYADA. What I allowed myself to believe, despite my original concerns when he didn't get a right out "yes" after his audition, was that he too was going to get in.

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