Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 10

[Buenos]

Here is the  bottom line that upset so many:

It wasn't a hidden  "bromance" thing...

It was wasn't coy homoerotic subtext...

It was Kurt as a single available   gay guy openly flirting and being sexually attracted  to  an available man who was receptive to his advances.  Kurt initiated things  and enjoyed the give and take with another guy. It was Kurt taking things to a sexual level with another man.

IT was presenting a scene that while the writers ultimately "punished" Kurt,  was a situation where Kurt was kissing another man and was more than willingly to have more sexual hijinks. 

That is unacceptable.  

It's not just the writers who wanted to keep him a sexual penguin in a certain context.  PLus I think some stans are pissed off because their favorite character can't literally get away with that on the show until it's end, as the writers used up his quota on a random facebook guy.   

It brought crashing down smug  preconceptions that Kurt could only ever contemplate sex with one other person in the universe.  The crash was heard on flawless abs of a tall muscular man who Kurt was willing to do "role playing" with ,( but not Rudolph).

The hula hoops I think was the tipping point.  

[Ranwing]

Too bad, so sad for the Klaine fans who still have their collective panties in a twist about this. I posted this on Tumblr because their belief that Kurt must apparently never let another man touch him because Blaine was there first is really offensive on a whole lot of levels.

And poor all of you… subjected to the sight of Kurt openly flirting and being flirted with someone not named Blaine Anderson. New flash… Kurt wasn’t with Blaine when he hooked up with Cody. Or dated Adam. Kurt was completely free to flirt with, date and sleep with whoever the hell he wanted to. And it’s a big laugh that you get all offended about this when Blaine fucked someone while he was in a relationship with Kurt and you bent over backwards to try to excuse that infidelity (he was sad/lonely/insecure).

Let that hypocrisy sink in a little bit. Blaine cheated on the love of his life while in a committed, monogamous relationship and he gets it handwaved away, but you all have your collective panties in a serious knot over Kurt flirting with a good looking (if untrustworthy) stud while he was single and no longer in a relationship. Yeah… and then you wonder why the rest of us have had it with Blaine and with you.

Kurt is not Blaine’s property. He is not Blaine’s chattel. He is not a girl who’s chastity needs to be protected (and let’s not go into how misogynistic it is to think that a girl or someone you see as a girl can’t make a choice for herself on who she can have sex with). Kurt is a 19 year old man with raging hormones and he’s acting like a 19 year old with raging hormones who sometimes lets the little head do the thinking for the big head.

Blaine has absolutely no right to demand or expect Kurt to return to him unsullied and untouched by another. Kurt has the right to sleep with, flirt with and engage in sexual contact with whoever he chooses to while he is not in committed, monogamous relationship with another person. That was not a virtue that Blaine himself had exercised so for you to complain that Kurt was a “whore” while Blaine has spent the past few years allowing Sebastian to flirt outrageously with him, fucked a light house, crushed on Sam, grinded on Ryder and then pressed his crotch to Sam’s ass… well, you’ll have to forgive the rest of us if we just go, “Fuck no and fuck you.”

There is something really offensive and sexist that Kurt, who is see as the "girl" in the relationship (which is aready offensive) is basically being told by this segement of the fandom that Blaine owns him sexually and if he tries to have sex with someone else that he's a whore. But what pissed me off is that this demand for fidelity, whether they are in a relationship or not, is strictly a one way street. Blaine can do what he wants with who he wants but Kurt has to remain pure for Blaine.

Damn... I think I threw up a little in my mouth just typing that.

[Glorfindel]

Of course, Marie. When Blaine was the one trying to force Kurt in the backseat of a car, it gets handwaved away because Blaine was drunk (and therefore not responsible for his behavior) and overcome by his love and passion for Kurt (which was so obvious when he was dancing with Sebastian all night). They even accused Kurt of leading Blaine on, which was such a lovely example of victim blaming.

But they certainly piled onto the Kurtofsky fans for the forced kiss (which did majorly cross the consent line), the Kadam fans (because Adam offering his hand to Kurt was so forcing himself on Kurt) and now with SmarmyHotShirtlessSanta (which was played for laughs). Basically in their eyes anyone who so much as lays a finger on Kurt except for Blaine is a borderline rapist. Never mind the fact that Blaine could very well have raped Kurt had Kurt not been able to pull himself free.

Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing, isn't it?   

Hypocrisy, thy name is Klaine(rs).

A poster on Backlot said under the Christmas recap thread there that the Klaine parking lot scene was not sexual assault or attempted rape because it was 2 guys. But if Kurt had been a girl it would have been sexual assault.
Right, because having a penis or not makes all the difference when it comes to physical abuse (sexual or otherwise).   

There is something really offensive and sexist that Kurt, who is see as the "girl" in the relationship (which is aready offensive) is basically being told by this segement of the fandom that Blaine owns him sexually and if he tries to have sex with someone else that he's a whore. But what pissed me off is that this demand for fidelity, whether they are in a relationship or not, is strictly a one way street. Blaine can do what he wants with who he wants but Kurt has to remain pure for Blaine.

This is true: Kurt is being seen and treated as a girl, by both RIB (though mostly only in the Klaine dynamic) and the Klainers. Unless of course Blaine won't take no for an answer and Kurt has to push him off: then Kurt is suddenly a strong macho guy, so they can say that it wasn't sexual harassment.

[ColferInspired]

That is like saying men can't get raped.

That is just disgusting.   

Talk like this just fuels the patriarchy. Saying this is not supporting human rights.

This is an insult to all rape and sexual assualt victims.  

[brisallie]

You know, I don't want to imply that klainers are a bunch of teenagers, because I came across some girls over 20 years old. But after reading all of these complaints that what happened to Kurt was 'sexual assault' and it never should have been aired, and worse shouldn't being praise, I think they're a bunch of immature girls who believe Kurt only belongs to Blaine. Well that's not how it works in real life, sometimes in real life relationships don't last forever, and if someone is single, and mainly someone as Kurt whose boyfriend cheated on him, only wants to have fun and live his youth and try to move on.

Seriously, how hard is for them to understand that Kurt was a single man who had the opportunity to hook up with a handsome man, and he did ,well it didn't work out as he wanted, but still IT WAS HIS DECISION.

[ColferInspired]

Here is the  bottom line that upset so many:

It wasn't a hidden  "bromance" thing...

It was wasn't coy homoerotic subtext...

It was Kurt as a single available   gay guy openly flirting and being sexually attracted  to  an available man who was receptive to his advances.  Kurt initiated things  and enjoyed the give and take with another guy. It was Kurt taking things to a sexual level with another man.

IT was presenting a scene that while the writers ultimately "punished" Kurt,  was a situation where Kurt was kissing another man and was more than willingly to have more sexual hijinks. 

That is unacceptable.  


It's not just the writers who wanted to keep him a sexual penguin in a certain context.  PLus I think some stans are pissed off because their favorite character can't literally get away with that on the show until it's end, as the writers used up his quota on a random facebook guy.   

It brought crashing down smug  preconceptions that Kurt could only ever contemplate sex with one other person in the universe.  The crash was heard on flawless abs of a tall muscular man who Kurt was willing to do "role playing" with ,( but not Rudolph).

The hula hoops I think was the tipping point.  

And like I said in the Kurt Hummel Appreciation Thread this is the oldest storyline ever. This goes back as far as the sixties where this story has been done repeatedly since then.

The sex with the attractive victim is the added bonus.

Kurt wasn't passed out like the girls were, so Cody had every intention to have sex with him, only when Kurt said no to being his Ruldoph (Cody probably thought that meant no sex either) he went back to his original plan.

Kurt was written as desirable in this episode and wanted by another hot guy.

No wonder Chris was so thrilled.

This storyline was has been done numerous of times in several shows and movies. It is one of the oldest storylines, through out television and movie history.

This has always been one of my favourite storylines because all the times it has been done it has been in a comedy or a spy thriller movie.  

And more than often the victim and the thief ended up together.

As an actor Chris would have known about this storyline.

Kurt is no longer a penguin or any kind.  

[Glorfindel]

The Backlot posted an old pic of Chris and Darren (on a Fox red carpet) with the caption:

Is there any cuter couple than Chris Colfer and Darren Criss?

The two were at The Trevor Project's "Trevor LIVE" event.

Backlot facebook
Idiots. Complete and utter morons!       



Feed the tinhatters some more, will you? How horribly insensitive to the real gay actor involved in this (and Darren too, for that matter), and we all know Chris will be the one who will get the tweets and the comments because the Backlot put a stick in the hornet's nest again.

And that coming from a website who are supposed to support gay people!   

[ChrisColferFan1]

The Backlot posted an old pic of Chris and Darren (on a Fox red carpet) with the caption:

Is there any cuter couple than Chris Colfer and Darren Criss?

The two were at The Trevor Project's "Trevor LIVE" event.

Backlot facebook
Idiots. Complete and utter morons!       



Feed the tinhatters some more, will you? How horribly insensitive to the real gay actor involved in this (and Darren too, for that matter), and we all know Chris will be the one who will get the tweets and the comments because the Backlot put a stick in the hornet's nest again.

And that coming from a website who are supposed to support gay people!   

This makes me mad.     They should be ashamed of themselves .

[Jellyrolls]

What a horrible thing to do--bringing up and old picture, and saying they are the cutest couple when they know full well that isn't the case. Of course the CC idiots are all posting that they are the perfect couple.

[Delight]

The Backlot posted an old pic of Chris and Darren (on a Fox red carpet) with the caption:

Is there any cuter couple than Chris Colfer and Darren Criss?

The two were at The Trevor Project's "Trevor LIVE" event.

Backlot facebook
Idiots. Complete and utter morons!       

Irresponsible idiots indeed. Are they so desperate to get comments for their 'article'? On top of how inappropriate it was to label Chris and DC as a couple, it's so misleading to use an old joint photo and try to pass it off as one that has been taken during the Trevor Live event. This is wrong on so many fronts that I find it offensive.

[ColferInspired]

Bridget, Dot Maries wife made her twitter account private as the CrissColfer tinhatters were getting abusive and insulting.  

[brisallie]

Bridget, Dot Maries wife made her twitter account private as the CrissColfer tinhatters were getting abusive and insulting.  

I saw that  . And is unfair Chris's friends can't freely express their opinion, pictures or anything, only because a bunch of insane shippers don't like hi beloved Darren isn't part of the group, "why is he left out?" they claim. Jeez, when will these people understand Chris and Darren are only co-workers?

[ChrisColferFan1]

Bridget, Dot Maries wife made her twitter account private as the CrissColfer tinhatters were getting abusive and insulting.  

I saw that  . And is unfair Chris's friends can't freely express their opinion, pictures or anything, only because a bunch of insane shippers don't like hi beloved Darren isn't part of the group, "why is he left out?" they claim. Jeez, when will these people understand Chris and Darren are only co-workers?

Good points, Also even if Chris and Darren were friends even best friends it is wrong to except them to be together 24/7.   And to do everything together.  

[Buenos]

Glee is going to be part of Chris ' work schedule for the next 18 months at most. He will always be linked with Darren in the mind of *some* fans but with most of the GA it will fade with time fairly quickly.

Personally I think Glee's fanatical subgroups of fans , Klainers, crisscolfer tin hatters, etc are not all that numerous. I'd be surprised if they are more than 20-40k, if that.

Chris own fan base is not that dependent on Glee as evidenced by his outside literary career and that 'Struck by lightning' seems to have recouped its costs and is making a tidy profit world wide. He's been nominated for Emmys, SAGs and won a Golden Globe. He has industry cred for his acting. His PR people snag him on talk shows when he wants to push/promote things.

Chris IMO will always be eternally grateful to Glee and Ryan Murphy, but I think he's already preparing for his post Glee career very smartly. His book deal gives him some financial leverage and a whole new platform and connection to a whole new generation of fans.

[Buenos]

Not to be cruel, but the meltdowns and shutting downs of forums in theoretical and hypothetical forums, all in my mind naturally...


LMAO  

Pseudo moderators who themselves are the problem with their own hypothetical bashing are the best, aren't they?  Fucking hypocrites.... 

And LMAO of Norweigan Wood claiming it was one of the worst rated episodes ever, da ya think you idiot with the folks you hang out ?    

snip, snip some hilarious babbling about "unprecedented".

    

plus some bitching about

no "heartfelt moments".

..      

[brisallie]

@Buenos, when you said that probably klainers are not much as they say to be, I agree. The thing is they're noisy, and somehow they're everywhere, so probably that why it gives the idea klaine is loved by so many, when in fact half of the fandom is tired of klaine.

At this point, I prefer to not get mad at their reasons, because they're in denial and not matter what other people say, for them this episode will be forever the worst one. But you know, I'm relieved other people don't think the same.

[Buenos]

I think that itune sales and websites that only allow 1 vote per Address paint a more realistic picture.

For example there was a website last year  that had a poll for  best on screen couple that did not allow multiple voting and it seemed a few of the TV  fandoms really  got involved in it ; end result was "Supernatural" and "Klaine" were next to neck with a little over 40k votes each.

"Come What May" , which to some is the ultimate Klaine song ( at least the most requested) ended up selling between IIRC 20-25 K it's first week out on iTunes.  And first week sales usually are usually the large bulk of itune sales.

So I think most fandoms, because they are so vocal, tend to seem proportionally bigger than they really are.

I think Chris' second LOS book probably (comparing with first) sold at least 150k to 200k in the US so that gives him a literary base that while very respectable has a a big potential to increase and expand as the years go on.

Personally I don't expect everyone else to love and be a fan of someone that I am, but I do like to think that I'm not alone in respecting and admiring Chris talent and appeal.  I tend to be a fan "for life" of those I like, in varying degrees of intensity, which I find realistic.  I'm curious about their careers and what they are doing and I think I'll be that way with Chris even when he's off Glee.

[Ranwing]

The very fact that Chris's second book continue to reappear on the NYT bestseller's list is the strongest argument that at least as far as his writing is concerned, Chris has reached an audience well beyond the Glee audience. For him to be on the list for a week or two could be written off as his fans from the show consuming his work. The fact that he book has been out for several months and continues to reach the top twenty on the list shows that the appeal of his work has legs. More importantly, the book was listed an a number of best of the year lists. It's no real wonder that the publisher offered him a multi-book deal.

I think that for any in the cast looking at post-Glee success, it's not going to be the immediate success of the first project that tells what they are going to be capable of. It's does that success have any real longevity. Does it carry over into their second project? So far, the members of the cast that have managed this have been Chris, Diana and Max. They are getting demands for heir work. Grant looks to be off to a great start with his character on Arrow. Amber is now more well known for being on Dancing With the Stars than Glee. They have reached the point where they are no longer dependent upon their parts in Glee to sell their work.

[Buenos]

I think that for any in the cast looking at post-Glee success, it's not going to be the immediate success of the first project that tells what they are going to be capable of. It's does that success have any real longevity. Does it carry over into their second project? So far, the members of the cast that have managed this have been Chris, Diana and Max. They are getting demands for heir work. Grant looks to be off to a great start with his character on Arrow. Amber is now more well known for being on Dancing With the Stars than Glee. They have reached the point where they are no longer dependent upon their parts in Glee to sell their work. 

I think after 18-24 months when Glee ends will give us a better snapshot of everyone's career The big thing is that Glee give them all a "resume" platform they can build upon.   However, you just don't know what will lead to something else down the line.

Who would have thought that of all the "Roseann" actors Johnny Galecki would be the one with a second hit TV series , and that success came almost 10 years after Roseann.   Even "Blossom's " actress now on the show was fortunate to get a role suited to her.    Let's face it, so much of it is also timing and luck, as well as talent and perseverance.

[valkeakuulas]

I know you guys talked about this a couple of pages ago but I only fully realised it today when I was spending too much time on tumblr: all of the people hating the christmas episode and calling Kurtsies hipocrites have had Darren or Blaine as their avatar or backround?

I know I can never be unbiased, but I don't go around the internet claiming that I'm unbiased either. It's the pure lack of self awareness that annoys me tremendously. They can love Bland McAndersson as much as they want, but they cannot go on and state Kurt is an important character for them, when they don't spot any of the discrepancies in the way Kurt and Blaine are written. There are few Blarren stans out there that are as uncompromising in their "favortism" as some Kurtsies and I actually like them.

Protests about the assult and the lack of Blaine storylines have been my favorites tonight! Suddenly the NY gets a majority of episode time and now NY characters are labelled behaving as out of character and not behaving as they are supposed to?! And they have the balls to argue as well. Now Glee is written badly, now you should send feedback to Fox, now they are suddenly worried about Kurt? etc. etc.

I've seen so many blogs with Darren's face posted on that then claim to like Klaine AND Kurt....but then they always add a but to their comments, only on the Kurt part of the Klaine. And I feel as if I'm not even generalising, because seriously I have not seen a Blaine/Klaine fan that has said publically how nice it is finally to see a little of the post break-up Kurt, the single Kurt since you know, S4 focused on single Blaine, so this was a nice flashback how Kurt was doing around that time. Not even a one! Feel free to show me one and I'll apologize from that person.

[sheny]

I can't show you Klaine fans who said publically exactly those things about Kurt, but I know a few Klainers who really liked the episode, they were happy Kurt finally was having fun and blogged tons of pictures and gifs of Kurt and Cody together.

[Lottie2303]

I am certain there are Klainers who really love Kurt and Blaine equally. Not all of them are "bad" and it is unfair to pile them all up in one big group. However, the negative voices are usually much louder and also much larger in size. I'd say the majority are in for Klaine because of Blaine, but we still cannot generalize all of them. I'd just like to hear those Klainers much more and hear them defending Kurt as character, while still liking Klaine. It would give some perspective.

[Buenos]

I take into account individual posters and how they actually post instead of generalizing everyone. I don't give a rat's ass if someone likes Darren more or Chris less.  I mean it's freedom of choice and that is why we are individuals with personal preferences.  So in that sense, who cares?  I have friends who are big Chris stans and yes, I have friends who are big Darren stans.  Neither is wrong nor right.

What annoys me are the poseurs who claim to like them both equally and yet their posts reflect a clear preference.   It's not the preference perse I mind but the pretentiousness and disingenuous way they go about denying their bias.   Who cares, just be honest and not hypocritical  about it I say.

I think the immaturity seeps through in posters when they claim to be "objective".  LOL, there is no such animal.  All humans have subjective opinions, that is why they are called opinions.

A fact is saying Los Angeles is the most populous city in California.   An opinion is saying it's the best city in California.

[Glorfindel]

-ETA-
It appears this is an older article, but I just came across it today. Interesting to post nonetheless, I think.


Lol, Feather Magazine bit off more than they could chew by celebrating in an article the straight actors who 'dare' to play gay. And when people of course commented negatively on that they quickly explained that they made these kind of articles to make their LGBT reades feel included, but admitted that they never focused on gay celebrities,....untill next month of course, so just wait!   

The evolution of the gay and lesbian community in the United States has been astounding, with organizations such as the Trevor Project and It Gets Better consistently inspiring and supporting people to be true to themselves and embrace their own sexualities.
Recently, the positive trend of the world’s more open mind may be a product of less politics and more, unbelievably enough, television.  Most television shows, if modern and liberal enough depending on the channel, have at least one gay or lesbian central character. From ABC Family’s Pretty Little Liars to Fox’s Glee, gay characters have made their way into America’s hearts, and more than likely their tissue boxes. However, not all of the actors that are graciously playing these groundbreaking roles share their characters’ sexualities. So while we sit back and watch the world drastically change, here are five actors embracing the fact that they are indeed straight, but not narrow, and are pushing envelopes on television today.

[This is what they wrote about Darren:]

This curly-haired cutie became every girl in America’s teenage dream when the former Starkid first appeared on the Dalton Academy Staircase in season two of Fox’s hit musical comedy “Glee.” Immediately introduced to the world as an out-and-proud gay student, Blaine Anderson took the initiative to tell fan favorite character Kurt Hummel, played by Chris Colfer, to stand up to the bullies at his school. Now, two seasons, a few steamy make-out seasons and lovable Christmas duets later, ‘Klaine’ has became one of the most controversial and groundbreaking couples on live television, which of course, brought its own share of sexuality rumors for the 26-year-old musician. While Criss and his character Blaine have many similar qualities , such as a sweet personality and the tendency to knock any Katy Perry number out of the park, Criss has publicly identified himself as a straight male, but with a respectable reluctance.

Feather Magazine   

Read the comments.

And the explanation of the editor afterwards only makes it worse, imo:

Editor's Letter: Perception v. Intention

Around 4 a.m., I got a message that one of our articles was receiving a lot of negative comments. It was partially due to a misleading headline, which I take the blame for. I really should've noticed it, but it somehow slipped past my radar.

Let's just be clear upfront: I stand by the story. We encourage our writers to pitch their own ideas based on things they've experience, noticed or see other twenty-somethings are struggling with. For me to encourage creativity, and then knock it down when some people don't agree with it, wouldn't be right. No, I don't agree with every story we write. (I hate paisley with a passion!) But I do stand by every story on the site.

One thing I would never allow on the site, though, is hate or discrimination. We have clear policies against it, and even make sure no one on the staff, even interns, is breaking those codes. I've been a victim of discrimination and it's no fun. The spirit of the story was to show how a trend in entertainment was showing a positive change in perception toward homosexuality. I'd never allow something to be published that was showing the opposite.

I really think it's funny how this is the story getting comments. No one's talking about the story we did on TV shows hurting adolescent women's self-esteem, the growing trend of slut-shaming, how Demi Lovato's past has turned her into a better role model or even our plea for Nicholas Sparks to write a book about a gay relationship. (We've also made sure to make a lot of our lifestyle stories inclusive to people in all kinds of relationships.)

No, we're talking about how when a few sentences are taken out of context, they can be twisted to mean pretty much anything—good or bad. For the record, everything in it is meant to be positive. I do get that perception is different for everyone, though, so I do respect your opinions and have taken them to heart.


I do thank everyone who understood the writer's intention and has been positive about it. This will not deter us from writing certain stories, just because we may offend someone. I always want to start a conversation because we can all learn from one another's viewpoints.

If there's a story you want to see about the gay community, please let us know. We often reach out and are met with radio silence. You can always reach us at feathermagazine@gmail.com.

x

Jeez, how to step into it not just 1 time, but multiple times.  

[Lottie2303]

^ The article is one major "WTF". but the comment section is glorious and so very true. The fact how many celebrate straight actors for being decent human being, really boggles my mind.

It is a very common tool to cast straight actors for LGBT roles. Also TV/movie exectiuves are much more willing to show LGBT relations if it is acted by straight actors. The moment only one (or in worst case, both) actors are LGBT members, they get majorly restricted. I dislike Klaine, but they have a very fair point that FOX shows them as a 90-year old, asexual couple. That wouldn't happen with any straight relationships. Heck, Cory and Mark got more interaction as they are both straight and it was played as a joke. It is a form of discrimination and is one of the very many points why Klaine is not the golden couples, as we are told they are.

Change IS happening. The younger generation specifically are much more accepting. Great actors can play every role, no matter the sexual orientation. Neil Patrick Harris, Chris Colfer and Matt Boehmer among others really changed HW for the long run and deserve major respect. I'd love to see more lesbian representation, as females once again tend to be ignored, even though I believe HW is more willing to cast a lesbian for a straight role. But maybe I am wrong.

Nonetheless, even in our time, the LGBT relationships usually always get restricted screentime, less affection and more distance between bodies. Also many LGBTsexual characters tend to be supporting cast members with no development and/or traits beyong being LGBT. That needs to stop and shows how TV executives are way behind our time, because the audience itself really isn't the problem anymore.

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