Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 10

[Buenos]

However in the past a song on Glee could further the plot or given emotional punch to the scene.  Some of Glee's best previous moments involve the right song in the right context.

Granted this year it's far and in between, but "Seasons of Love" was perfect in incapsulating the loss of Finn to New Directions as a group (old, fairly old and new characters) and the song packed more than most exposition dialogue.

I would place "Baby it's Cold outside" as an example of a song that set things up between two characters, ie the flirty attraction between Kurt and Blaine.   So I think songs if used well are part and parcel of what makes (made) Glee special and unique.

[AnneNeville]

However in the past a song on Glee could further the plot or given emotional punch to the scene.  Some of Glee's best previous moments involve the right song in the right context.

Granted this year it's far and in between, but "Seasons of Love" was perfect in incapsulating the loss of Finn to New Directions as a group (old, fairly old and new characters) and the song packed more than exposition dialogue.

I would place "Baby it's Cold outside" as an example of a song that set things up between two character, ie the flirty attraction between Kurt and Blaine.   So I think songs if used well are part and parcel of what makes (made) Glee special and unique.

I thought Seasons of Love was fantastic, but it also seemed to be out-of-the-show. IE, it seemed to be the cast singing rather than the characters . . . I really thought that was what was intended . . . so I can't think of it as a song that was successful in terms of developing the *characters* or showing their experiences in song rather than in a scene.

It was beautiful, moving, emotional, but to me, it was not illuminating about the characters in any way at all . . .

[Lottie2303]

The funny thing about Klaine, Blaine isn't just wrong for Kurt, Kurt is also wrong for Blaine. Both are too opposite and need different traits in their partners, that I never believe those two are truly meant to compliment each other. RIB would be brave and so very realistic by showing that your first love usually isn't your last love. That people fall out of love. That interests change and that your envisioned future doesn't match with your relationship anymore. That would be something I would love to watch.

Overall, I don't believe anything could save Klaine anymore. Too much happened and too much bad writing really destroyed this ship.

[brisallie]

@Buenos, I agree, but what I perceive at this moment is the plot depends on the songs, and not the other way around. I know Glee is a musical series, but I see the songs as a tool to express something, but it doesn't have to the most important element. If not writers have to think very well how to fit the SL to an specific song. Like for instance this week was released 'Wrecking Ball', and personally, even though is a breakup song, also is about a relationship that it lasted for years and not six months. In addition, that song it represents another problem that Glee have nowadays, and is the fact they're eager to use Top Hits as a way to get more sells, but all those songs are perfect for the plot?

@AnneNeville, now I understand why you never were a klainer. Umm lucky you who got to the fandom when the couple was in decline.

[Buenos]

Brisalie I agree that for the most part, Glee has lost how to use songs to further plot or give insight into characters.

It's revealing to me that Rachel, Kurt and Santana sing relatively little these days, even though they are the most well rounded characters on the show.  Which means that the songs given to New Directions lose impact because those character are more "sketches" of characters, you need to care about who sings the songs.

When Santana (with Mercedes) sang "Rumors/Someone like you" it packed a punch because of the character of Santana as well as the song fitting the mood of what was going on in her life.

[brisallie]

Having second thoughts, and though I said Glee only care about selling on Itunes. Still I'm thankful they introduced to me to indie bands such as FUN and Imagine Dragons. So probably the thing is they're giving this songs to the wrong people, like for instance last year lots of us thought Pink's song was accurate for Kurt to express his feelings after the breakup. But at the end Marley and Unique sang it.

However, still I disagree they've picked up songs like Blurred Lines and Gangnam Style only because they're hits. Those songs turns out to be a joke or an offense.

[Ranwing]

The problem is that Glee is now using musical numbers as a substitute for good storytelling and using the songs to do the hard work, rather than relying upong good writing, caracterization and acting. In past seasons the songs were used to give that final emotional punctuation to stories that were being told properly. Would IWTHYH been nearly as meaningful if we hadn't gotten a lot of build up to that emotional scene? Of course not. That song hit you like a punch in the gut because we'd already seen Kurt's conflict with his father, saw him struggle to hold things together while he feared the worst and feeling cut of and alienated from his friends. The song worked because it had a full storyline giving it reason to exist.

Contrast that to GTGYIML and AYNIL, where there was no real build up to a Klaine engagment and the songs was used in place of hard discussions about Blaine's infidelity, what lead him to cheat rather than talk to his boyfriend, and do some of the emotional work that would have Kurt taking Blaine back at this point make sense.

[Lottie2303]

There is also a huge difference in terms of setting. Especially in earlier seasons, all songs had a logical and affordable explanations, like it was a Glee assignment with school band. Nowadays many times they just start randomly singing (MK and NYC), with no proper context, wear strange outfits and the background characters start dancing along in a choreography. It pulls you out of the scene and diminishes some of the meaning.

[brisallie]

There is also a huge difference in terms of setting. Especially in earlier seasons, all songs had a logical and affordable explanations, like it was a Glee assignment with school band. Nowadays many times they just start randomly singing (MK and NYC), with no proper context, wear strange outfits and the background characters start dancing along in a choreography. It pulls you out of the scene and diminishes some of the meaning.

As the text in bolded: That's so High School Musical! They have turned into they used to hate to be compared with.  

[ColdFlame96]

The funny thing about Klaine, Blaine isn't just wrong for Kurt, Kurt is also wrong for Blaine. Both are too opposite and need different traits in their partners, that I never believe those two are truly meant to compliment each other. RIB would be brave and so very realistic by showing that your first love usually isn't your last love. That people fall out of love. That interests change and that your envisioned future doesn't match with your relationship anymore. That would be something I would love to watch.

Overall, I don't believe anything could save Klaine anymore. Too much happened and too much bad writing really destroyed this ship.

Lottie, I completely agree. Many people seem to think they we only hate Klaine because of Blaine but that's not true. They're just not good for each other anymore, assuming they ever were. Kurt has outgrown Blaine by miles, and Blaine needs someone who will stand up to him, just like Kurt needs someone who will support him and bring him up. I actually wrote a pretty long meta piece about Blajnes character and why he could possibly be the way he is. I don't really hate him anymore, so much as I pity him.

[Glorfindel]

^Very good post.

And I agree: if they would really write well for Blaine and give their relationship some good development I could believe in Klaine again.
But we know it will never happen, as this is Glee.  

I must be almost alone. There is absolutely nothing the show could do that would make me believe in or support Klaine. Nor can I think of anything they could do to make me tolerate watching Blaine on my screen anymore. Ever.

Let me make this clear: the chance that they could somehow redeem Klaine in a way that I can at least understand why Kurt still chooses for Blaine is very, very slim, I'd say even impossible because these writers are crap with relationships.

I really, really dislike Blaine, and I will probably never be able to like him ever again (I liked him in his first 2 episodes and some nice moments here and there later on), as his character is completely ruined and as shallow as a cardboard cut-out at the same time.
But if there would be stellar writing for Klaine, many scenes of them talking seriously, some decent POV for Kurt and Blaine realizing thorougly that he has problems, then I at least might accept that Blaine's with Kurt, and tolerate him the way I tolerate my best friend's husband (who I can't stand and think is all wrong for her) just because she feels he makes her happy.

Overall, I don't believe anything could save Klaine anymore. Too much happened and too much bad writing really destroyed this ship.

Yeah, I'm afraid it's too late as well. In the hands of a good writer many seemingly unforgivable things can be redeemed (just look at some good Kurtbastian or even Kurtofsky fanfics) but RIB just can't. They even manage to make things worse when they try to 'correct' things.

[Lottie2303]

^ Actually one thing that really amuses me about Glee, when they try to make characters unlikable they tend to gain sympathy from the audience (i.e. Brody, Kitty), and vice versa characters that are supposed to be liked are either not noticed or disliked (i.e. Marley, Blaine). It is not just Klaine, Glee really doesn't know how to write proper characters and relationships in general, therefore the desired outcomes are the opposite as anticipated. If it wouldn't be so sad, it would be very entertaining.

[Buenos]

About the writers, Jakes comes across now with the cheating with Bree as real douchbag precisely because he was a blank slate before, he was a "nice" bad/boy redeemed and now he supposedly fucks a Cheerio for a quickie because his GF won't put out? WTF.

Finn did horrible things but the audience had a built in sympathy for him because they knew his character and connected to it, what possible connection do they have to the previously bland blank Jake?

[Buenos]

I love how ass lickers say McKinley is bright colors and cheerful and that NY is dark colors and serious...

Do they even watch the show?  

NY has the colorful , ie interesting characters. You can stick Marley in a dozen Kate Perry and Gaga outfits and she still comes out beige.

Thought I guess the sexual abuse SL and the school shooting were all about primary cheerful colors... 

[Georgette888]

And literally colorful if you see the latest stills. *g*

[Jellyrolls]

With all the Klaine chemistry discussion, I thought it might be fun to see exactly how many scenes they have had together since Blaine was introduced.  I did this by memory, so I'm sure I missed stuff, but here's a start.  Let me know if you think of others or if I have some in the wrong episode.  Bolded interaction are scenes where they are one on one.

Never Been Kissed
• Introduction at Dalton/Teenage Dream
• Coffee scene with two other Dalton guys
• Scene with Karofsky in the stairwell

The Substitute
• Kurt talks to Mercedes about Blaine a lot
• Breadstix scene with Mercedes (was that this episode?)

Special Education
• Kurt’s introduction at Dalton
• Blaine tells Kurt he is getting an audition for a solo
• Blaine tells Kurt he needs to learn to blend in after DCFMA
• Kurt calls Blaine about Pavarotti

A Very Glee Christmas
• Baby It’s Cold Outside

Sue Sylvester Shuffle
• Bills, Bills, Bills
• Lima Bean Scene with others
• Background of them at football game together

Silly Love Songs
• Lima Bean Scene where they talk about Valentine’s Day
• Dalton scene where Blaine says he wants to sing to Jeremiah
• When I Get You Alone
• Outside scene after When I Get You Alone
• Lima Bean Scene where Kurt admits his feelings

Blame it on the Alcohol
• Rachel’s Party
• Lima Bean scene with the bisexual discussion
• Burt catched Blaine in Kurt's bed after Rachel's party
• Lima Bean scene where Rachel kisses Blaine (with no Klaine interaction)

Sexy
• Lima Bean scene with Sue
• Animal (you look like you’re having gas pains)
• Sexy face scene/you have to learn more about sex scene in Kurt's bedroom
• Blaine goes to Burt behind Kurt’s back

Original Song
• Misery/Kurt tells Blaine he sings too much
• Blackbird/Blaine realizes he likes Kurt
• Dalton scene where Blaine says he wants to sing with Kurt
• The kiss scene
• “You’re adorable” before singing Candles
• Pavarotti’s burial

A Night of Neglect
• Kurt shows Blaine around McKinley and Karofsky confrontation
• Background stuff watching NoN

Born This Way
• Lima Bean with others (I would be all for Kurt going to back to McKinley if it wasn’t for Karofsky)
• Blaine sings Somewhere Only We Know

Prom Queen
• Kurt asks Blaine to Prom
• Blaine in Kurt’s living room seeing Kurt’s prom outfit
• Prom (Blaine sings)
• Hallway scene after Kurt is named Prom Queen
• Blaine asks Kurt to dance

New York
• Lima Bean scene where Kurt tells him about the trip (I love you scene)

The Purple Piano Project
• Lima Bean scene where they talk about Blaine transferring
• Locker scene where Blaine said he transferred
• It’s not unusual

I Am A Unicorn
• Booty camp (Tony should go to a senior)
• Kurt watches Blaine’s audition

Asian F
• Stairs scene where Kurt gives Blaine flowers

Pot ‘O Gold
*Blaine sang "Last Friday Night" and they danced together.

The First Time
*Blaine's bedroom scene where Blaine is dancing
• Lima Bean Scene with Sebastian
• Bucket list scene
• Scandals scene where Kurt talked to Karofsky & Blaine danced with Sebastian
• Carpark scene
• Kurt goes to Blaine in the auditorium to apologize (kiss)
• Bedroom scene

Mash Off
*Blaine was present during the Debate for Class President
*Random background moment

I Kissed A Girl
• They sing  perfect to Santana
*Blaine is with Kurt when Kurt finishes NYADA application (no conversation)

Hold On to Sixteen
*Lima Bean Scene with Sebastian
•Blaine came to get Kurt while he was talking to Harmony because it was their turn to perform and later they walked into the choir room together after performing

Extraordinary Merry Christmas
• Black and White Christmas special/Let It Snow
*The were in Sue's office together (no conversation--Blaine didn't even speak)
*Couple of background shots sitting in auditorium, and standing next to each other during feed the world

Yes/No
*One glance between them

Michael
• Lima Bean scene with others (how often do you talk to Sebastian)
• Bad scene where Blaine gets slushied
• Bedroom scene with Rachel and Finn (Blaine has toast for Kurt, Ben)

Heart
• Love Shack

On My Way
• Cough Syrup
• Holding hands while walking by Quinn at the end
*They sat together during Regionals, Blaine scared Kurt pretending to be a vampire.

Big Brother
• Blaine introduces Cooper to Kurt
*At Coopers acting class Kurt was taking notes and Blaine asked him why he is writing all those stuff down.
• Margaret Thatcher dog scene (Kurt says Blaine should talk to his brother)

Saturday Night Glee-ver
• Couples dance

Dance With Somebody
• Kurt asks Blaine to go to into the sheets, blaine says he can’t
• Bedroom scene where Blaine confronts Kurt about Chandler
• It’s Not Right But It’s Okay
• I Have Nothing
• Counseling scene with Emma
*Locker scene where Blaine compliments Kurt's hat and suggests they skip rehearsal to do something unscheduled, followed by walking into the auditorium together

Choke
• Blaine watches Kurt practice Music of the Night
• Blaine watches the NYADA audition

Prom-a-saurus
• Big Girls Don’t Cry (Kurt doesn’t want to go to prom because of fear of a prom queen repeat, Blaine doesn’t want to go to prom because Brittney bans hair gel)
*There was a conversation between them in the hotel room while Rachel was in the bathroom changing her dress.
*Later at the prom they had a couple of more scene. Kurt sent Blaine to go wash his gel after Brittany saw him, later he called him Borat and told him he is proud of his bushy haired boyfriend or sth.

Props
• Eating ice cream at the mall when Tina falls in fountain.  
• The Halloween Flashback with Klaine as Snooki and Situation

Nationals
*One line in Paradise by the Dashboard Light
*Background momnents:  Stood next to each other in rehearsals, held hands in anticipation of results at nationals, and celebrate nationals together

Goodbye
*Kurt and Blaine have a classroom scene where Blaine reiterates his concern about Kurt leaving for NY and Kurt reassures him. (What about the monogrammed towels I gave you?)
*Blaine gives Kurt a handkerchief at graduation

The New Rachel
*Lima Bean scene when Kitty gives Kurt a hard time
• A couple of choir room/auditorium scenes with everyone, no real interaction
• Picnic table scene/Blaine sings to Kurt

Britney 2.0
No Klaine interaction

Makeover
* Skype conversation about the makeover performance/Blaine's bow tie
* Kurt doesn't answer Blaine's call at work

The Breakup
• Kurt cuts phone conversation short while he is at work
*Blaine shows up at the apartment (excited Kurt, quick kiss)
• Callbacks scene where Blaine sings to Kurt
• The “I was with somebody scene”
• Blaine sends Kurt flowers


Glease
• Awkward scene where Hummelberry see Finn and Blaine for the first time
• Hallway scene where Kurt tells Blaine off

Thanksgiving
• Kurt talks to Isabella about Blaine, she encourages him to forgive him so he can move on
• Phone call where Kurt says he’s not ready to forgive Blaine yet, but can’t stand not talking to him

Swan Song
*Kurt mentions a phone call with Blaine to Rachel

Glee, Actually
• Blaine is Kurt’s Christmas Surprise/White Christmas
• Blaine and Burt bet on when Kurt will lose interest in the basketball game
• Christmas dinner (singing setting the table)

Sadie Hawkins
• Rachel encourages Kurt to move on from Blaine
• Kurt tells Adam “Blaine is more of the dancer in the relationship”

I Do
• Make out in the car (we’re just friends, bros helping bros)
• Just Can’t Get Enough
• Hotel room scene
• We’re just friends hallway scene with Tina

Girls (and Boys) on Film
• Kurt’s fantasy of Come What May
• Adam asks about Kurt, and Kurt says, “I desperately want to be over him.”

Wonderful
• Kurt voiceover, “Don’t worry.  We’re not hooking up.”
• Lima Bean scene with Mercedes and Mike (Blaine says Kurt is dirty cute)
• Blaine asks Burt for permission to propose to Kurt
*Blaine asks Kurt to stay around a bit longer

All Or Nothing
• Breadstix scene with lesbian couple (“we’re not a couple”)

Love, Love, Love
• Picnic scene/GTGYIML
• Kurt expresses apprehension about the surprise proposal in car with Burt
• The proposal


Tina In the Sky with Diamonds
• Brief mentions of the engagement, no interaction

The Quarterback
• One scene where they are holding hands

If you see something that needs to be added or corrected, post without quoting this since the list is so long.

[sjonnepon]

in HOT16 there was a Limabean scene between Kurt/Blaine/Sebastian.

and there was a little scene in, i thought IKAG, where Kurt fills in his NYADA application and Blaine is standing behind him. But it was just in a song.

[Buenos]

in HOT16 there was a Limabean scene between Kurt/Blaine/Sebastian.

I think that was during  "Constant Craving".

The New Rachel
• A couple of choir room/auditorium scenes with everyone, no real interaction
• Picnic table scene/Blaine sings to Kurt

I would add the Lima bean scene where Blaine witnesses Kurt having to be the waitstaff with Kitty berating him.

Dance With Somebody
• Kurt asks Blaine to go to into the sheets, blaine says he can’t
• Bedroom scene where Blaine confronts Kurt about Chandler
• It’s Not Right But It’s Okay
• I Have Nothing
• Counseling scene with Emma

Their locker room scene where Blaine compliments Kurt and tries to persuade him to skip practice before the last practice session/group number

You missed 4.22 "Goodbye"

Kurt and Blaine have a classroom scene where Blaine reiterates his concern about Kurt leaving for NY and Kurt reassures him.

[sheny]

3.14 On My Way
They sat together during Regionals, Blaine scared Kurt pretending to be a vampire.

3.15 Big Brother
At Coopers acting class Kurt was taking notes and Blaine asked him why he is writing all those stuff down.

3.17 Dance With Somebody
There was one more scene in the hallway after the counseling, Blaine complimented Kurt's Russian hat and told him they should skip Glee to go do something unscheduled. They hug and went to the auditorium to sing "Your love is my love" with the rest of ND.

3.19 Prom-a-saurus
There was a conversation between them in the hotel room while Rachel was in the bathroom changing her dress.

Later at the prom they had a couple of more scene. Kurt sent Blaine to go wash his gel after Brittany saw him, later he called him Borat and told him he is proud of his bushy haired boyfriend or sth.

They actually had a lot of scenes together or at least background moments during season 2 and season 3.

[Jellyrolls]

I'll add all these to the list when I get home from work, but I knew I missed stuff.

One things for certain looking at this list--there was very little one on one interaction between Kurt and Blaine after season 2.

Keep those memories coming

[sjonnepon]

@Marie/Glorfindel
I was just reading the last 2 pages of the Kurt-Singing-Voice thread on GF.
Jesus wtf?? (not to you, not to you!)

[Lottie2303]

@Marie/Glorfindel
I was just reading the last 2 pages of the Kurt-Singing-Voice thread on GF.
Jesus wtf?? (not to you, not to you!)

I have zero interest to have a look at that particular website. Can you give a quick summary?

ETA: Nevermind, I read the thread.  

[Glorfindel]

^I know, I know.

To be completely honest: it bothers me to a certain degree (although I care not at all about some of those posters' opinions of me), but I can't talk about it here, unless it's in PM's. For the sake of being able to post new reviews on 'my' songs and singers threads there (and especially the KSV thread there, which is still my first baby that I don't want to let go of yet) for the posters and lurkers there who do enjoy my reviews, I have to follow that forum's rules about that, even here.

Let's just say that a mod stepped in fairly quickly, and I also made the essence of my feelings about it all very clear in a follow-up post there, where it belongs.

I'll add all these to the list when I get home from work, but I knew I missed stuff.  

One things for certain looking at this list--there was very little one on one interaction between Kurt and Blaine after season 2.  

Keep those memories coming

I have nothing to add, but I happened to come across a calculation of screentime given to the romantic couples in season 5 so far:

Season 5 So Far:

• Penny/Sam - 5:20
  
• Jake/Marley - 2:52
  
• Blaine/Kurt - 2:45
  
• Artie/Kitty - 2:32
  
• Dani/Santana - 1:27 
  
• Emma/Will - 1:07
  
• Bree/Jake - 0:54
  

source

So Klaine's legendary "onscreen chemistry" in season 5 consists of not even 3 minutes of appr. 170 minutes (4 episodes).

[sheny]

I remembered a few more scenes. I'll post some gifs too because my English sucks and I can't find the right words to describe them properly.

2x12 Silly Love Songs
• The Warblers sang "Silly Love Songs" at Breadstix

2x14 Blame it on the Alcohol
• Burt catched Blaine in Kurt's bed after Rachel's party

3x04 Pot ‘O Gold
Blaine sang "Last Friday Night" and they danced together.


3x06 Mash Off
Blaine was present during the Debate for Class President


there was also this background moment


3x07 I Kissed A Girl
• Blaine helped Kurt to fill in his NYADA application form and during 'Constand Craving' he told him they'll figure out something.

3x08 Hold On to Sixteen

• Blaine came to get Kurt while he was talking to Harmony because it was their turn to perform and later this happened 
  

 

3x09 Extraordinary Merry Christmas
• There was a scene in Sue's office

Also this  and 


3x10 Yes/No

I think this was all 


3.20 Props
• The Halloween Flashback with Klaine as Snooki and Situation

3x21 Nationals

• 
  
  
• 
  
  
• 
  

4x02 Britney 2.0

• There was no Klaine interaction in this episode
  the Skype conversation is in 4x03 Makeover
  and the phone conversation when Kurt is at work is in The Breakup
  

4x09 Swan Song

• Kurt mentioned to Rachel about a phone conversation with Blaine
  

4x21 Wonderful
• There was a Klaine hallway scene before "For once in my life", Blaine asked Kurt if he would stay in Lima for a little longer

[Jellyrolls]

I added in the other stufff. Let me know if you think of more.

It is crazy that a couple that has had so little development as a pairing is even considered for best chemistry.

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