Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 9

Lottie2303 10/6/2013, 4:39 am

^ Agreed, also Glee is so incredible addictive because of their cast. By dismissing half of them after S3, and demoting their biggest stars to supporting actors, RIB really damaged its product. In case they really would have gone out and found new, unique and interesting actors again a la S1, given them new (!) storylines and didn't just rely on the show choir concept, it may have even worked. But they got lazy, cast some generic actors that can be found on any other show and expected they'd be just as loved as the originals. Glee was never, ever about the show choir, but about the characters. RIB really fucked up my dismissing this fact as they rather liked to polish their ego and in the process are destroying Glee for good.

arina 10/6/2013, 4:42 am

Well I don't think who has the most screentime is totally unimportant, just that it does not matter to them that much as to us - internet fandom - where really often many people watches for one or two particular characters... at least that is my impresssion from people who I know watch tv shows as GA or I feel similarly about some shows that I watch casually.

That said I think people prefer the old cast because they are used to them much more, but unfortunately I think it includes Blaine as well.
Edit: (well personally I think there is one exception in character who people probably want to see more than the other - Rachel, I know that that many people here don't like here but I see her as the most famous character and I think most people imagine her character as first when it comes to Glee so I think she is the one who people want to see themost, but I am not sure about the others).

I still think the quality of the writing it the biggest problem

tanita_mors 10/6/2013, 4:53 am

i think it's definitely a mixture of the two. god knows that we hated episodes where chris and kurt were in the front and center because of a horrible writing, but it was still easier to swallow then watching a good episode with people i don't care or even worse, a bad one. honestly, really great writing can help you cope if you fave is downgraded but it's can't give you that excitement and enjoyment like it does when you are watching what you want to watch.

also, glee is no longer new and shiny. the initial success, amazement and interest has died down and all that remains is the quality of the show or in this case the lack of it. at the end of the day, glee is a mediocre to bad teen dramedy with flashes of brilliance set to music. it's not the cultural phenomenon it once was.

Lottie2303 10/6/2013, 5:01 am

I agree that the GA doesn't just watch for one character. They most likely like a bunch and do not care for another part of the cast. However, it is not that easy that the audience cares for characters. Looking at Marley, where RIB did everything in their power to make her likable and they failed dramatically, is given a good indication that the audience doesn't follow characters just because they supposed to.

The original cast worked very, very hard and deserve all the attention and favorism from the audience. It is incredible rude how RIB let them work for 3 years, took it all away and gave it to new characters who really haven't done anything yet to the product of Glee. They also were unique characters. Actors like Lea, Chris, Kevin, Jenna and Co can all be recognized from Glee because they are so different from the norm . Ryder, Marley and Jake (I cannot think of their real names...) can be interchanged with any CW show and you wouldn't notice. It is yet another sign that RIB truly believe Glee is successful for the format and not the characters.

Blaine was heavily used for S4 and for the S5 opener. The ratings tell us a different story. So, I actually don't believe the GA cares so much about him. He is a bad actor and the GA notices stuff like that as well. They just don't use the internet to voice their dissatisfaction. Darren has a very active and loud internet fandom. I think for the long run Darren will be a great example that just because the internet is loud, doesn't equal to automatic success and likability. For S5, I believe the majority of the GA cares for the NYC part. Hence, they switch off because it is still so underused.

Buenos 10/6/2013, 5:04 am

Yet many show don't have new show "buzz" and can do pretty well for many years. Grey's Anatomy is going on it's 9th or 10 th year, just because something goes on for X number of years doesn't mean it has to be automatically crappier every progressive year.

Lottie2303 10/6/2013, 5:08 am

The most frustrating part about Glee: it has the potential for utter brilliance and they waste it away with repetitive HS stories and highlight their weaker actors, dismissing those who really are talented and can sell utter shit if necessary.

valkeakuulas 10/6/2013, 7:09 am

I just dislike how the engagement is now just canon and that whenever someone questions its rightfulness it's labelled as Blaine hate. "Kurtsies hate the engagement because some of them don't like Blaine!"

Well...yes and no. I don't like Blaine as a character and think his way of beheaving is detrimental for Kurt's life and career. But I also think it's stupid to get engaged just because you can and doing so when you haven't quite solved all your issues and on top of that are very, very young and living hundreds of miles apart. Both arguments are just as valid, but because I like Kurt more than Blaine I can't say that them getting back together is nothing stupid and fan pandering.

Just as in real life I know couples that I only really like the other one and have opinions about their partners. In real life I tolerate and don't say anything, but with fictional couple I CAN voice out my disgust. But because I'm a bitter Kurt stan, not liking the proposal makes my opinion nothing but Blaine hate?!?

And don't even get me started on people who are saying that there was a solid story development on Kurt's POV! That we were told all the facts! Kurt was just on the process of forgiving and moving on from the cheating! And on top of that crap, the cheating should no longer be a problem with me disagreeing with the proposal! And whatever went on with "the New York guy" (nice little deflection there Glee!) should have no effect on Kurt's life from now on! Sorry for all that shouting, but isn't there something very wrong with all of those statements above?

I don't know where all that came from. I just ran into a individual who who hit me in the head with "Glee Canon" and the fact that there is no point of disagreeing because the show gives me no grounds to do so anymore. Yes the show sucks, as the ratings and the dozens of different edits flowting around tell us, but why not give space to still critizise the show because Glee has never been really good at continuation and what happened last season makes no sense anyway. Oh, except Kurt gets sucked deeper into the quick sand and Rachel wins.

Glorfindel 10/6/2013, 7:11 am

Buenos wrote:I think who has the most screen time matters. If not Marly being on 24/7 would be just as good as Kurt or Rachel.

TV shows have stars. If Kurt, Rachel and Santana had the most sreen time and SL'S the show would be much better because of their acting and charisma. Otherwise, just put monkeys on the screen time and it wouldn't make a difference? I don't think so.

I also think that who's acting out the storylines matters to the GA.
Chris, Lea, Naya, Cory, Jane, and in a lesser way Matt, Kevin and Becca, always manage to elevate the (crap) material Glee gives them. And the charm of the underdog original cast, even the ones who can't act that well, gave the material an extra boost as well.
And sorry (not sorry), but ~actors like Darren and Chord just can't do anything with the material given to them. I'd even say that Darren's acting choices make Blaine a worse character than he could have been in the hands of a better actor. The whining and creepiness of Blaine stems mostly from Darren, not RIB, imo.
The GA may not care too much about fan favorites and such, but they most certainly will like certain characters more than others, and lbr: Blaine hasn't been likable in a long time, while e.g. no matter how rude or selfish Rachel is she is still liked because of Lea's portrayal of her.

In season 4, because RIB neglected to give the 2.0 characters personalities and chose generic bland actors for the most part, the noobs also couldn't lift the material like the old cast used to do. That's mostly also to blame on RIB for their bad writing, but the new actors are at fault too because they could not make ate least something out of the material.
And that's why Kitty is popular while the other noobs are not: because of her actor Becca being able to make Kitty more 'real' and likable.

I think the best comparison could be made whith Blaine and Finn. Finn got a lot of crap writing, and tbh in canon he was a real douchebag sometimes. But most people still liked Finn because of the way Cory played him. There was always a sense of sympathy and youthful awkwardness with Finn. We knew why he was so stupid and selfish: it was because Finn had a lot of pressure on him and because he still had to learn a lot. And there ever was a question that Finn did not love Rachel. That's mostly due to Cory's layered acting.
The writing for Blaine is similar to Finn's, as he is supposed to be the hero and one of the best singers according to the writers, but because of the messy writing it often turned out to be that he's a real douchebag who doesn't deserve the admiration he got (in the first seasons) in the glee club. He's supposedly a nice guy/~hero who deserves to sing lead in the glee club, and even more than Finn (who at least got called out sometimes on his actions) he's untouchable, everyone wants him and he's always in the right even when he's wrong. But unlike Cory Darren does nothing to make Blaine more sympathetic. Instead of acknowledging the selfishness and possesiveness of certain actions of Blaine Darren delivers his lines in a way that makes Blaine look even more selfish and possesive. And as Darren also can't put any real background/layers into Blaine the character is more of a caricature, and a very unsympathetic one at that.

The GA may not mind who's the lead actor of a show, but they do mind if the lead character is unlikeable.

Lottie2303 wrote:I agree that the GA doesn't just watch for one character. They most likely like a bunch and do not care for another part of the cast. However, it is not that easy that the audience cares for characters. Looking at Marley, where RIB did everything in their power to make her likable and they failed dramatically, is given a good indication that the audience doesn't follow characters just because they supposed to.

The original cast worked very, very hard and deserve all the attention and favorism from the audience. It is incredible rude how RIB let them work for 3 years, took it all away and gave it to new characters who really haven't done anything yet to the product of Glee. They also were unique characters. Actors like Lea, Chris, Kevin, Jenna and Co can all be recognized from Glee because they are so different from the norm . Ryder, Marley and Jake (I cannot think of their real names...) can be interchanged with any CW show and you wouldn't notice. It is yet another sign that RIB truly believe Glee is successful for the format and not the characters.

Blaine was heavily used for S4 and for the S5 opener. The ratings tell us a different story. So, I actually don't believe the GA cares so much about him. He is a bad actor and the GA notices stuff like that as well. They just don't use the internet to voice their dissatisfaction. Darren has a very active and loud internet fandom. I think for the long run Darren will be a great example that just because the internet is loud, doesn't equal to automatic success and likability. For S5, I believe the majority of the GA cares for the NYC part. Hence, they switch off because it is still so underused.

^This.

arina 10/6/2013, 7:23 am

Lottie2303 wrote:I agree that the GA doesn't just watch for one character. They most likely like a bunch and do not care for another part of the cast. However, it is not that easy that the audience cares for characters. Looking at Marley, where RIB did everything in their power to make her likable and they failed dramatically, is given a good indication that the audience doesn't follow characters just because they supposed to.

The original cast worked very, very hard and deserve all the attention and favorism from the audience. It is incredible rude how RIB let them work for 3 years, took it all away and gave it to new characters who really haven't done anything yet to the product of Glee. They also were unique characters. Actors like Lea, Chris, Kevin, Jenna and Co can all be recognized from Glee because they are so different from the norm . Ryder, Marley and Jake (I cannot think of their real names...) can be interchanged with any CW show and you wouldn't notice. It is yet another sign that RIB truly believe Glee is successful for the format and not the characters.

Blaine was heavily used for S4 and for the S5 opener. The ratings tell us a different story. So, I actually don't believe the GA cares so much about him. He is a bad actor and the GA notices stuff like that as well. They just don't use the internet to voice their dissatisfaction. Darren has a very active and loud internet fandom. I think for the long run Darren will be a great example that just because the internet is loud, doesn't equal to automatic success and likability. For S5, I believe the majority of the GA cares for the NYC part. Hence, they switch off because it is still so underused.

I hope but I am not so sure, honestly I know only few GA of Glee but none of them care for New York part, quite the opposite..... And I personally (even if I am not GA) care more for New York because there are more characters that I like and because I think it has a potential while McKinley is really repetitive and doesn't offer anything new but what we got from New York last year mostly bored me, not only becase of little screentime but because the storylines overall were not very interesting to me.

valkeakuulas wrote:I just dislike how the engagement is now just canon and that whenever someone questions its rightfulness it's labelled as Blaine hate. "Kurtsies hate the engagement because some of them don't like Blaine!"

Well...yes and no. I don't like Blaine as a character and think his way of beheaving is detrimental for Kurt's life and career. But I also think it's stupid to get engaged just because you can and doing so when you haven't quite solved all your issues and on top of that are very, very young and living hundreds of miles apart. Both arguments are just as valid, but because I like Kurt more than Blaine I can't say that them getting back together is nothing stupid and fan pandering.

Just as in real life I know couples that I only really like the other one and have opinions about their partners. In real life I tolerate and don't say anything, but with fictional couple I CAN voice out my disgust. But because I'm a bitter Kurt stan, not liking the proposal makes my opinion nothing but Blaine hate?!?

And don't even get me started on people who are saying that there was a solid story development on Kurt's POV! That we were told all the facts! Kurt was just on the process of forgiving and moving on from the cheating! And on top of that crap, the cheating should no longer be a problem with me disagreeing with the proposal! And whatever went on with "the New York guy" (nice little deflection there Glee!) should have no effect on Kurt's life from now on! Sorry for all that shouting, but isn't there something very wrong with all of those statements above?

I don't know where all that came from. I just ran into a individual who who hit me in the head with "Glee Canon" and the fact that there is no point of disagreeing because the show gives me no grounds to do so anymore. Yes the show sucks, as the ratings and the dozens of different edits flowting around tell us, but why not give space to still critizise the show because Glee has never been really good at continuation and what happened last season makes no sense anyway. Oh, except Kurt gets sucked deeper into the quick sand and Rachel wins.

This really drives me crazy too!

AnneNeville 10/6/2013, 11:42 am

arina wrote:Even if Kurt had the most screentime and his storylines would be uninteresting, the rating would be the same low imo.

I agree. ETA: I think that the stronger actors can make the script better, but once the writing gets as abysmal as 5x1, there really isn't much they can do to make the show tolerable.

brisallie 10/6/2013, 6:57 pm

I strongly believe that Glee won't be nothing without their characters portrayed by such as good actors like Lea, Chris,Jane, Will and Naya, and so on. In first and second season the storyline was quite decent, but then started to goind downhill and if werent' because of the actor choices, like Cory portraying Finn as someone insecure about his goals and relationship with Rachel, probably he would have been hated by GA as writers wanted. Because I blame the writers for wanting to ruin these character in order to make the new ones to be accepted. Sadly it didn't work, and I think is causing them troubles, because people want to see their old beloved characters, and them either have gone or are in NY.

However, still I feel I'm 100% unsure what GA like and/or want, because the people I know haven't watched Glee for a while, but "luckily" they only remember the old gang, so it might be weird for them to see these new characters and I'm unsure if they will feel immediately attached to them.

ColferInspired 10/7/2013, 12:01 am

ChrisColferFan1 10/7/2013, 1:08 am

ColferInspired wrote:

Funny

fantastica 10/7/2013, 2:48 am

the head transplant was really weird looking... Razz

Lottie2303 10/7/2013, 4:36 am

I mean to be fair, I think Season 3 was also very bad and it featured the old cast. I still haven’t watched the entirety of it, because as a Kurt fan, it is extremely painful to know the outcome. I think if they would have relocated the entire show to NYC and maybe a second location (LA/Chicago/even Lima College) and followed part of the old gang, they could have successfully reestablished the show.

They could have still graduated a few of the main cast and let them go permanently with a few guest visits (i.e. Brit, Tina, Mercedes, Puck), and created new characters that fit in the NYC storyline. So they could have gotten their new characters RIB craved, got a new setting with endless new opportunities, still have the most popular cast present (Rachel, Finn [when he was still with us], Kurt, Santana and Darren [yes…]) but forgo the risk of repeating SL. Because I think the repeating SL and the rather mundane new cast are the biggest problem. Completely new and creative characters plus new SL’s which don’t copy the glorious past, and I even believe Glee could be reinvented. But RIB really did everything wrong in my book.

Jellyrolls 10/7/2013, 8:37 pm

Too many gifs for me to post, but someone did a comparison of Kurt and Tina:

http://mscellophane.tumblr.com/post/63384061450

Interesting.

Get original ideas RIB! Stop recycling!

brisallie 10/7/2013, 8:46 pm

Jellyrolls wrote:Too many gifs for me to post, but someone did a comparison of Kurt and Tina:

http://mscellophane.tumblr.com/post/63384061450

Interesting.

Get original ideas RIB! Stop recycling!

Wait...so is actually Tina who's repeating Kurt's storylines? I thought was Blaine, but I've realized he can't be a loser.

bayth 10/7/2013, 9:43 pm

brisallie wrote:
Wait...so is actually Tina who's repeating Kurt's storylines? I thought was Blaine, but I've realized he can't be a loser.

They both are - however, Blaind always wins what Kurt lost and Tina gets the same bad outcomes that Kurt was given.

Glorfindel 10/8/2013, 5:15 am

And even Kurt's Prom Queen story was a repeat. Apparently RIB stole it from 'Ugly Betty' where the gay character was voted Homecoming Queen?

arina 10/8/2013, 5:18 am

That is true, I have never watched the show but I've seen the scene on youtube and there indeed was storyline where young gay character was voted the queen as well and it was before Glee.

Jellyrolls 10/8/2013, 10:10 am

OK, this is snarky and spoilerish, so I'm putting it here in spoiler tags:

Spoiler:

Ireth 10/8/2013, 11:47 am

^I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. But I love Billy Joel's songs and I really don't want to see them ruined by horrible contexts (or horrible singing).

brisallie 10/8/2013, 12:22 pm

Glorfindel wrote:And even Kurt's Prom Queen story was a repeat. Apparently RIB stole it from 'Ugly Betty' where the gay character was voted Homecoming Queen?

I remember I came across that episode after Glee's episode aired, and I was like "Are they copying Glee?", then I remember 'Ugly Betty' ended the year Glee started, so it was the other way around. But still I like both storylines.

@Jelly, first I've to say that I had to google the song and is actually a song that I like, so after reading your post I've bittersweet feelings.

AnneNeville 10/8/2013, 12:38 pm

Ireth wrote:^I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. But I love Billy Joel's songs and I really don't want to see them ruined by horrible contexts (or horrible singing).

Hey, they did it for the Beatles. Why should Billy Joel be safe?

AnneNeville 10/9/2013, 3:36 pm

I've been thinking, and it occurs to me that I can mark the beginning of Glee's end from 3x1, when Lauren just up and quit New Directions for no good reason other than RIB having decided to get rid of Ashley Fink.

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