Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 7

[Delight]

It just annoys me how they make them appear the same height or Blaine even taller

As sheny had mentioned, that photo was from an old EW photoshoot. One thing that struck me when I had browsed through the Kurt/Chris and Blaine/DC photos in that old article was that Chris stayed in character as Kurt and there were several shots of him gazing at Blaine in a love-struck manner. DC, however, seem to only have eyes for the camera.

You know I should be happy my favorite is part of such a popular couple but it's hard to be happy when I feel the couple doesn't deserve its popularity at all. I wonder that if they weren't gay would they have half of the success they have now? I am happy there are more gay couples on tv these days but the courage to have gay couple shouldn't excuse horrible writing for the couple... Or are they succesful because people like Darren and Chris? Personally I am sometimes ashamed when I see Klaine defeat really interesting and well written couples in polls.

You're not alone in feeling this way. I somehow doubt that the people who vote for Klaine on the online polls care much about the inequality in the relationship or how poorly written/developed the relationship is (Otherwise, they seriously wouldn't vote for this couple). Yes, Glee is to be credited for giving so much visibility to a gay character. The part where Glee failed terribly at is developing the romantic relationship of that character. You don't create a strong and well-realized character and diminish/destroy him in order to elevate a second-rate one (By having Blaine be lauded as a great singer and dancer, be desired for his sex appeal- 'sex on a stick' vs gayface- and win at everything that Kurt failed at). It makes little sense. A lot of my frustration about Klaine stemmed from this.

IMHO the biggest problem with the cheating storyline wasn't not showing Kurt's perspective, and it wasn't that Blaine did something bad to Kurt. The problem was that it gave me the opportunity to open up a little window, to give myself a chance to look at them without the Klaine goggles. What I saw horrified me. I saw just how little the show cared about making Kurt and Blaine an equal couple. I saw just how small Kurt's life had become now that he was one half of a supercouple. And I saw all the weaknesses in Darren Criss' acting, which weren't noticeable when he was just Kurt's love interest but were glaring now that Blaine was being asked to carry the bulk of the acting in this storyline. I also saw what hate and contempt a lot of Blaine's fans have for Chris Colfer and the character of Kurt.

I'm sorry to hear that this realization is upsetting to you. To be honest, what you've identified as a problem is something that I wish more people who watch Glee would experience. That way, I won't feel as if the grievances I have about Glee's treatment of Kurt in relation to Blaine are merely delusions of an extreme Kurt/Chris fan

[tanita_mors]

that is such bullshit. as someone who actually loves kurt, i absolutely hate this season more the any another. why ? because there is basically no kurt is most of it, and when he is there i just can't get into those storylines because they a rarely about him. this season, almost every thing that kurt is involved in was about rachel or blaine, and even when it wasn't, those two were still there sucking up the screen and song time. non of the victory's he had felt earned because his loses were drooped from the spotlight until they realized there needed some kurt and lets give him a win.

[Lottie2303]

I wonder sometimes now why I was a Klainer in the first place. I certainly wondered about TFT as an overall episode, about the entire Sebastian incident and how DWS painted the picture. As I watched S1 -3 and the beginning of S4 all in one, I did not spend that much time analysing the show. I loved Chris performance in TBU and also firmly stand by the fact that Darren also did a great job that episode. I expected the same chemistry and quality throughout the relationship and therefore decided I just must like them. If that makes sense. Also it included Kurt, who was immediately my favorite. of course I must like Klaine...

Overall, I think they had a cute beginning. However, it always bothered me how Blaine was perceived as the great, 'alpha'-male with his actions with the GAP-attack and dating Rachel (I hated Blaine and Rachel so much that episode. Yeah, Kurt also made a questionable 'bi-comment', however I am still mad no one ever apologized). I think the first kiss was a great scene, even though a bit more development in advance would have been nice. It should have been a warning sign that Blaine, out of nowhere, decides he is in love and makes a move. So much about him cheating being OOC, I think it actually makes perfect sense.

I am shocked about the refusal to show the real height between the actors. So, Chris is taller... Cannot have it because he is effeminate, emotionally weak and attractively the inferior part? Yeah, great way to dismiss Chris as a person, Kurt as a character and his entire fandom.

After the kiss, FOX got too chicken to actually show a real, affectionate relationship between two boys. The censorship is most certainly responsible for the trainwreck of Klaine. If they would have been a heterosexual couple, Sebastian would have had a much more prominent role. I am certain of it.

TFT was always strange to me. Even as a Klainer, I never got it. We have Blaine attacking Kurt. The episode which should be about their love, introduces a third party. Kurt is clearly not ready to have any sort of sex at the beginning of the episode. Kurt apologized to Blaine for him attacking him. Then he has sex because suddenly he is ready. Yes, I loved that they showed gay teenagers having sex for the first time, but the entire execution was poor and unhealthy.

Sebastian happened and once again it is all about Blaine. Probably to the shock of FOX and RIB, they realize Darren isn't that good of an actor and the two of them have no chemistry. Kurt (Chris) and Sebastian (Grant) however ooze chemistry. The shippers for Kurtbastian are a small number but still very, very active. It speaks volumes about the wasted potential. Once again, if it would have been a heterosexual couple, they would have gone with it. Thinking about it, if Darren actually would have had the chemistry, they would have gone with it as well. But they cannot have Kurt to be the desirable, sexually active and wanted party in contrast to Blaine.

DWS was just a major WTF moment for Klaine. Kurt should have ditched him in a second. The Kurt I know from S1 and the Burt we've met throughout the seasons would have not approved of Blaine humiliating him in front of the Glee club. Yes, Kurt was wrong about the texting and Blaine had every reason to be mad. But you discuss that privately and not in front of ALL your friends.

Overall, Kurt was gone for maybe a few weeks and Blaine already cheated. Yes, they are a great couple! Now I had to watch endless episodes about Blaines anguish and pain. They really go out of their way to promote Blaine and destroy Kurt in the process. Thankfully the GA does not agree and voice their opinion. The fact that Adam received so much positive response speaks volumes. However, Blam and Blina received a lot of negative replies, expect of course from the Blaine fans. But that is the major difference between Kurt and Blaine. Even non-Kurt fans do no necessarily hate him, like Adam and are sick of Klaine; however Blaine has a dedicated fanbase but also a lot just hate him! RIB really needs to reconsider its priorities.

Looking back, I almost mad at myself for shipping it. Funnily, I always questioned my loyalties to Klaine but never really actively looked into it. CWM was a great eye-opener about Klaine. Suddenly it was so obvious that nowadays Klaine is just about Blaine, pleasing the Blaine fans, using his voice and dismissing Kurt. But it wasn't just me questioning the couple. Their have been others. Also it seems that after CWM the tone in general has shifted for Klaine. I am not convinded Klaine is THAT popular. Klainers are loud, and vocal and bully other fanbases. They use Social Media successfully. However, I believe a lot of people who like and watch Glee just do not follow it on the internet. I also suspect those are the ones disliking Klaine. RIB needs to panders that audience and not one fanbase. Because I suspect a lot of people are willing to stop watching once Klaine gets back together and Kurt has been taken away all his agency, free will and the right to be in a happy, healthy relationship.

[ColferInspired]

I stopped being a Klainer after "Silly Love Songs".

I know a lot jumped from this ship and left the fandom after this episode aired. Because I remember the Klaine thread suddenly became invaded by Blarren stans and the usual Kurt/Chris fans were no longer posting and just disappeared.

I remember ones like CoffeeMum, StephenKurtisie and there was others that had just suddenly left the thread.

Other Kurt/Chris fans did join much later but then every time they would talk about Chris or Kurt, their posts were ignored as mine were eventually, so like them I left the thread and was so relieved that the KHAT thread had come back to life.

A lot of these posters seemed really nice and I enjoyed them praising Chris and their love for both Chris and Kurt.

I follow a lot of them on tumblr. But most don't watch the show anymore and just love and support Chris and his projects.

[sheny]

That photo shoot was almost 3 years ago and Chris was shorter so maybe then they were the same height.
Just because Kurt likes spending times with girls instead of the bros or loves some girl stuff doesn't make him a girl. And Blaine is definitely not the "alpha male" they are trying to make us believe he is. I actually like that Kurt is the taller one in the relationship not that it really matters.

The idea that the man should be taller than the woman is stupid and out of date. There are a lot of examples including in Hollywood for women taller than their men. I'm a little bit taller than my fiance and it's really frustrating when some idiots start looking at us like we are aliens. They should mind their own business.

I'm sorry that you and your fiance still get strange looks even in this day and age. I hope you know that I was being sarcastic when I said that about Klaine!

Thank you. I know you were being sarcastic so don't worry my little rant was not caused by your post.

Sebastian happened and once again it is all about Blaine. Probably to the shock of FOX and RIB, they realize Darren isn't that good of an actor and the two of them have no chemistry. Kurt (Chris) and Sebastian (Grant) however ooze chemistry. The shippers for Kurtbastian are a small number but still very, very active. It speaks volumes about the wasted potential. Once again, if it would have been a heterosexual couple, they would have gone with it. Thinking about it, if Darren actually would have had the chemistry, they would have gone with it as well. But they cannot have Kurt to be the desirable, sexually active and wanted party in contrast to Blaine.

I'm not sure if the Kurtbastian shippers are that small number actually. They are definetely more than the Seblaine shipper. There are almost 3 times more Kurtbastian fanfics on FF.net than Seblaine.

Only Ryan Murphy and the Glee writers see Kurt as the less diserable one in the couple. Are those people blind? Kurt is cute and sexy. Blaine just looks ridiculous with that hair and the pink bowties. He loves to hang out with the boys and loves sports. So what? That doesn't make him more attractive in my eyes.
In what universe someone in their right mind will chose a guy who looks like some weird combinatin of 5 years old kid and an old man over someone like Kurt.

[arina]

I also don’t believe Klaine is that popular as it seem. At the beginning I think most of the Kurtsies were more or less Klainers because they did not know what to expect and were just excited for Kurt’s potentional first boyfriend. Then there were Darren’s fans who often started watching for him and he was cast as Kurt’s love interest and then boyfriend so they shipped Klaine. Also from what I understad there were alot of fuss in the media about Kurt having a boyfriend and about gay couple kissing and I think people were overall just excited for the changes on tv, for the bravery and revolutionary thing to portray teenage gay couple equally to straight couples. But soon they found out the revolutionary thing started and ended basically with the kiss and Klaine were mostly portrayed as asexual ponies who are mostly hidden in the background and that RIB (maybe because of restriction of FOX) did not stress much to portray them as relastic and interting teenager couple. Also many Kurt’s fans started to realize Klaine holds Kurt back and that he always will be portray as the less of the couple and stopped shipping them. Many Blaines fans realized he gets songs and screentime even without Kurt so there was not so important to want him with Kurt anymore.
I remember when I first came into the Klaine thread there were so many people and posts it was almost impossible to read it (it was like a chat). I dont read it nowadays but last time I was there there were so much less people and posts. I think many people just lost interest in the show overall and many of them stopped shipping and went to the threads of their favorites.
I think most of the Klainers now are teenager girls who primarily like to see cute guys together and these are the loudest. Truth is I know also much older fans who are really insigtfull, inteligent and seem to really care for Kurt or Kurt and Blaine and still are big Klainers, I don’t know if that is because they are just faithful to the couple they were shipping for so long or because they just love the characters so they want them together or why but overall I think the amount of Klainers is much smaller than it used to be and then it appears to be.

[rooszie]

I also don’t believe Klaine is that popular as it seem. At the beginning I think most of the Kurtsies were more or less Klainers because they did not know what to expect and were just excited for Kurt’s potentional first boyfriend. Then there were Darren’s fans who often started watching for him and he was cast as Kurt’s love interest and then boyfriend so they shipped Klaine. Also from what I understad there were alot of fuss in the media about Kurt having a boyfriend and about gay couple kissing and I think people were overall just excited for the changes on tv, for the bravery and revolutionary thing to portray teenage gay couple equally to straight couples. But soon they found out the revolutionary thing started and ended basically with the kiss and Klaine were mostly portrayed as asexual ponies who are mostly hidden in the background and that RIB (maybe because of restriction of FOX) did not stress much to portray them as relastic and interting teenager couple. Also many Kurt’s fans started to realize Klaine holds Kurt back and that he always will be portray as the less of the couple and stopped shipping them. Many Blaines fans realized he gets songs and screentime even without Kurt so there was not so important to want him with Kurt anymore.
I remember when I first came into the Klaine thread there were so many people and posts it was almost impossible to read it (it was like a chat). I dont read it nowadays but last time I was there there were so much less people and posts. I think many people just lost interest in the show overall and many of them stopped shipping and went to the threads of their favorites.
I think most of the Klainers are teenager girls who primarily like to see cute guys together and these are the loudest. Truth is I know couple of much older fans who are really insigtfull, inteligent and seem to really care for Kurt or Kurt and Blaine and still are big Klainers, I don’t know if that is because they are just faithful to the couple they were shipping for so long or because they just love the characters so they want them together or why but overall I think the amount of Klainers is much smaller than it used to be and then it appears to be.

Agree. I was glad Kurt got a boyfriend in the beginning now no longer.
I do not get why everyone should have a relationships. I prefer to look at interesting story about finding your self. Why not tell more stories about finding what they want to do later in live. I do not understand. I prefer to look at someone trying to find what he or she wants to for work later. Than another love story.

[Divalicious]

Initially, I was a huge Klainer, I thought, finally, we are going to see what I always wanted. Kurt, being valued and desired. I always saw Kurt as a great partner. Getting more gorgeous by the hour, smart, talented, a deep capacity for love. He also came with a package deal of Burt, the best dad anywhere. How could his partner NOT go around in constant amazement of being with him? Then I find out just how opposite the writers saw Kurt. They saw him as the girl, but where Rachel and Santana rule.their relationships, Kurt somehow became less because of it.

This year, I came in knowing I should have low expectations, but Glee has done worse than I ever expected. Not only do we get a ton of useless scenes with Blaine getting to interact with everyone and have a ton of songs, we get Kurt in an off screen romance. Even if Chris requested less time on the show they could have done a lot more with the time they had. Blaine got to have all the friendships that Kurt should have. Tina was Kurt's friend first, Sam was Kurt' crush first. Kurt gets the pain of not being the acceptible kind of gay, but Blaine gets the glory. Funny thing, I have always seen Blaine as the beta. Alpha's do not require the acceptance of others, they stand on their own two feet in the face of loss and adversity. Blaine crumbles every time something goes awry. He pushes Kurt away, cheats on him, switches his emotional base to whomever he is with. But, he is written as if he is strong, like he is a hero. I wonder if that is because the writers know that Darren, while charming and charismatic, is limited as an actor. If he played the effeminate "weak" character I think his popularity would have suffered. People love Kurt because he is Kurt, it doesn't matter if he is effeminate, that is just part of him. That is because Chris infuses Kurt with depth and reality, he makes Kurt have substance. Of course, that is also why why some people hate Kurt, because he makes real their biase, that effeminate gays are unacceptable, as though there is only one kind of "right" gay. Darren does humor, and puppydog eyes very well, but he cannot infuse the paper cut out that is Blaine with reality, he needs more tools to work with.

[ariel189]

The whole audition for Tony debacle at the start of season 3 was what ruined Klaine for me - I was willing to overlook it for the sake of my own enjoyment of the show but then 'The First Time' happened and that was the final nail in the coffin. I did try enjoy Blaine/Klaine after that but soon accepted this wasn't happening. I just about tolerated it for the rest of season 3 but after the way their breakup was handled this season I full on despise the ship and once they're back together, I'm out.

To be honest the hardest I ever shipped Klaine was during BICO. The events of Silly Love Songs, Blame It on the Alcohol and Sexy killed a lot of the enthusiasm I had for the pairing but once Original Songs aired I thought it was just nice to see Kurt in a relationship and found them cute together. Looking back I think I was just going along with the all the hype because I've never really been into the ship like I have before with other ones like Brittana, Kadam or Kurtbastian.

[Lottie2303]

Looking back I think I was just going along with the all the hype because I've never really been into the ship like I have before with other ones like Brittana , Kadam or Kurtbastian.

May I ask what you like about Britanna? It is an honest question, because they are so popular and have such a strong fanbase, but I don't get them. I never thought they fit together and it is one of the few times I agree with Ryan Murphy, him basically stating Brittany is too stupid for Santana (but I generally do not like Brittany as character ).

So, I'd really like to try to understand why so many people are so passionate .

[ariel189]

Looking back I think I was just going along with the all the hype because I've never really been into the ship like I have before with other ones like Brittana , Kadam or Kurtbastian.

May I ask what you like about Britanna? It is an honest question, because they are so popular and have such a strong fanbase, but I don't get them. I never thought they fit together and it is one of the few times I agree with Ryan Murphy, him basically stating Brittany is too stupid for Santana (but I generally do not like Brittany as character ).

So, I'd really like to try to understand why so many people are so passionate .

To be completely honest I don't have a particularly good explanation as I can't quite put my finger on why exactly I like them.

I guess I've always found them cute together - even if the basis of their relationship seemed to be a funny one-liner, they had many sweet background moments in season one which showed how close and attached to one another they were and made the development of their relationship seem quite natural and organic. I suppose I also liked how the feelings they had for one another linked to the storyline of them both coming to terms with their sexualities (even if this was dealt with horribly in season 3).

I've also found that for some reason this ship manages to invoke more emotion than the other main ones on the show - for instance I found their breakup the saddest of all three and feel more during their flashbacks than I do for those of other couples.

I'm not a hardcore Brittana shipper though, so I can't really say what it is that portion of the fandom get so passionate about.

[arina]

With me the funny thing is I never was Britanna shipper, I never took them too seriously especially because I couldn't have imagined someone like Santana with someone like Britanny who the show sometimes makes unrealisticly stupid but I cried during their break-up (it was the only break-up I was cryting about). I never cared about the ship before or after but their break-up made me the saddest as well and I would never expect that.

[Lottie2303]

Thanks a lot for the reply and I get your point why you like them. I have to agree that their break-up was heartbreaking. I didn't even watch the show at that point (I started with TBU) and was feeling so sad for them. I was rather disappointed that they actually lacked so much as a couple the previous seasons. I think it has partly to do with RIB's injustice to show a lesbian relationship, but also the characters just didn't mash. For me it always felt like the writer regretted for ever putting them together in the first place. They sincerely seem to hate Brittana.

I have to say TBU was a great episode for even the weaker actor. It was one of the best episodes for Heather by far and Darren also did a good job.

But I thought it was kind of funny when Ryan tweeted 'don't you want to see Santana with a hot girl in NYC' and I screamed 'YES!' and a large number of people screamed 'NO!'

[valkeakuulas]

The whole audition for Tony debacle at the start of season 3 was what ruined Klaine for me - I was willing to overlook it for the sake of my own enjoyment of the show but then 'The First Time' happened and that was the final nail in the coffin. I did try enjoy Blaine/Klaine after that but soon accepted this wasn't happening. I just about tolerated it for the rest of season 3 but after the way their breakup was handled this season I full on despise the ship and once they're back together, I'm out

For me the First Time has always been a bit uncomfortable and I get that that is no way the main interpretation of the episode. In that episode I think they tried to give the relationship a bit of "texture" but failed and the quick era of hand-holding, cute and interesting new Klaine has been a downhill.

I feel for me the trouble with Klaine is the way they have haphazardly written their relationship to begin with: Kurt was very well eshtablished character by S2 half point, one that viewers knew most of, besides perhaps Finn, and then all of a sudden he gets a boyfriend, a pivotal part of teenagers life and that life changing event has never been given the attention as Kurt's other relationships. Kurt and Finn are more than just faceless high schoolers. I mean we only really got to see Rachel's home life in S3 and Blaine's has never been even discussed!

Kurt has always been written (I reserve the right to change that statement after the completion of this season) as a whole person who is now attached to a character that has none of the same description. It's as if they are from completely different shows: one from emotional drama and one from a parody/comedy setting...which in some cases is enhanced by Darren acting, he acts in a slapstick comedy most of the time, even during the overemoting scenes. It's not a critic to the style, it's just a question of direction and abilities I guess.

Making Klaine go back to what it was before Break-Up is just, I think for most of us here, too downgrading for that human character of Kurt that we've seen created all the way from Preggers.

[Glorfindel]

I could write a long post about Klaine and Brittana, but I'm lazy and will quote instead.

The whole audition for Tony debacle at the start of season 3 was what ruined Klaine for me - I was willing to overlook it for the sake of my own enjoyment of the show but then 'The First Time' happened and that was the final nail in the coffin. I did try enjoy Blaine/Klaine after that but soon accepted this wasn't happening. I just about tolerated it for the rest of season 3 but after the way their breakup was handled this season I full on despise the ship and once they're back together, I'm out.

Same here.
I was so happy when I saw Kurt's face during 'Teenage Dream', and I shipped Klaine then. The 'Silly Love Song' and BIOTA Blaine bothered me but I gave the blame for that to the writers who were forcefully keeping Klaine apart. The kiss in 'Original Song' was wonderful and I was (again) so happy for Kurt.
The rest of season 2 Blaine was supportive of Kurt and I was fine with Klaine, except for the fact that I already started hating that Blaine sang so much and Kurt was reduced to swaying in the background.

TBH: I never cared much for Blaine, but he made Kurt happy and that was (still) good enough for me in season 2.

Then we got the WSS Tony storyline and I hated it. I hated the contrived Blaine win with him coming out smelling like roses while Kurt was ridiculed and forgotten. Blaine was the dreamboat who needed to win and Kurt seemingly could not match up to him (and they went out of their way to boycot his audition solo to make Blaine look better), while at the same time noone even batted an eye when he was mocked on top of losing. Kurt had to gracefully step aside while Blaine was oblivious of how others treated Kurt and never did anything 'wrong': he just got handed the victory, songs and poplarity while Kurt cried in a corner alone.
And that has been the Klaine dynamic ever since. I hate it with the passion of a 1000 suns.

'The First Time' was troublesome because of the car scene. The attempted assault itself of course, but also the whole blaming game behind it, and Blaine having no remorse for dancing with another guy the whole night while neglecting his bf.
And if I still had had any doubt left, 'Dance With Somebody' was so awful it ruined Klaine beyond repair for me. So long before the actual cheating Klaine was kaput for me, and all I want is for Kurt to be free from Blaine forever.

With me the funny thing is I never was Britanna shipper, I never took them too seriously especially because I couldn't have imagined someone like Santana with someone like Britanny who the show sometimes makes unrealisticly stupid but I cried during their break-up (it was the only break-up I was cryting about). I never cared about the ship before or after but their break-up made me the saddest as well and I would never expect that.

I had the same reaction. I never cared much for Brittana besides in context with the Glee eqality project (as I could see that they do matter to a lot of lesbians). I hate Brittany now, and used to strongly dislike Santana (the NY scenes have warmed me to her again, as Naya and Chris have good acting chemistry).
But I also shed a tear when they broke up: they were the mature ones in their break up. Santana broke up with Brittany before she would break her promise and stray (unlike Blaine), and although Brittany is dumb and Heather a horrible actress she showed very honest and genuine feelings when they broke up.

Having said that: I think it's for the best if Santana gets someone new now.

[MoviesAreLife]

Initially, I was a huge Klainer, I thought, finally, we are going to see what I always wanted. Kurt, being valued and desired. I always saw Kurt as a great partner. Getting more gorgeous by the hour, smart, talented, a deep capacity for love. He also came with a package deal of Burt, the best dad anywhere. How could his partner NOT go around in constant amazement of being with him? Then I find out just how opposite the writers saw Kurt. They saw him as the girl, but where Rachel and Santana rule.their relationships, Kurt somehow became less because of it.

This year, I came in knowing I should have low expectations, but Glee has done worse than I ever expected. Not only do we get a ton of useless scenes with Blaine getting to interact with everyone and have a ton of songs, we get Kurt in an off screen romance. Even if Chris requested less time on the show they could have done a lot more with the time they had. Blaine got to have all the friendships that Kurt should have. Tina was Kurt's friend first, Sam was Kurt' crush first. Kurt gets the pain of not being the acceptible kind of gay, but Blaine gets the glory. Funny thing, I have always seen Blaine as the beta. Alpha's do not require the acceptance of others, they stand on their own two feet in the face of loss and adversity. Blaine crumbles every time something goes awry. He pushes Kurt away, cheats on him, switches his emotional base to whomever he is with. But, he is written as if he is strong, like he is a hero. I wonder if that is because the writers know that Darren, while charming and charismatic, is limited as an actor. If he played the effeminate "weak" character I think his popularity would have suffered. People love Kurt because he is Kurt, it doesn't matter if he is effeminate, that is just part of him. That is because Chris infuses Kurt with depth and reality, he makes Kurt have substance. Of course, that is also why why some people hate Kurt, because he makes real their biase, that effeminate gays are unacceptable, as though there is only one kind of "right" gay. Darren does humor, and puppydog eyes very well, but he cannot infuse the paper cut out that is Blaine with reality, he needs more tools to work with.

I disagree that Rachel rules her relationship. Her and Finn have this weird dynamic where they sort of cancel each other out and are damaging to each other....you know what I mean? Rachel makes Finn feel bad about himself, and Finn makes Rachel lower her standards and her dreams. She is more than willing to become less ambitious for him, and that just irks me to no end.

I never really got the love for Kurtbastian. I agree there is a chemistry there that usually comes with love/hate relationships (like in Quinntana) but I always felt Kurt was far too good for Sebastard and I just loathed the way he treated Kurt. Everytime I saw him onscreen, I wanted to smack that smirk right off his face. I really can't stand relationships were one person is constantly picking on another....that to me is abusive. That's why I don't like Kurtbastian, because Kurt deserves real love and respect. I also will never ship Kurtofsky (even if Dave has changed his ways...too much bad water under that bridge), or Pezberry because of this. Quinntana doesn't really bother me, because both are evenly matched (not a "nice" character with a "bully" character, but two "mean girls") and they go after each other, rather than one partner constantly demeaning the other.

I don't like Brittana either. Nevermind that the relationship began with lies, manipulation and cheating...but it does seem wildly unbalanced. Santana is mentally aware and Brittany is just....not. While Brittany seems to be holding Santana back because of her childish ways (and releasing a sex tape was just awful of her), I also felt that Santana was very manipulative and even controlling toward Brittany, especially in the "Diva" episode. I got the sense that she liked Brittany so much just because she was easy to control and was so laid back, that she hardly ever stood up to Santana.

What can I say about Klaine that you all haven't already said? You all said it better than I ever could, so I'll just shut up.

[Lottie2303]

I agree Kurtbastian is not the best relationship within Gleeverse, but the FF's surrounding those two two are absolutely amazing. Quite a few FF's with those two contain mature, intelligent conversation; syncing personalities and I will not deny, extremely hot smut . But they work as the writers do not take the personalty traits away from the characters, especially because they are quite similar (being ambitious, talented, driven, good looking and both somehow dominant) but actually utilize and add layers to it. So done by great writers, Kurt and Sebastian actually work perfectly together. There is a lot of wasted potential. Of course the writers thought Blaine would fit the bill better...

Never got Dave and Kurt. I thought they had an interesting story arc and I would have liked to see more between them, but always as friends but never as lovers. It is a shame they dropped his storyline after the suicide attempt. Only on Glee...

[MoviesAreLife]

I'll admit, there is this one Kurtbastian story that I read called "This Should be an Interesting Year" about Kurt and Sebastian in college...and how they start off hating each other, but eventually develop a romance. It is very well written and amusing to read.

[brisallie]

Probably that why I ship Kurtbastian sometimes, because the FF I've read about them are so good that I want them together. But then I realize that it wont be possible on Glee, because by one side Sebastian was such a jerk with Kurt and he deserves someone better, and honestly I'm glad he has Adam now.

As regards Finchel, none of them weren't giving away their dreams, by one side Rachel wanted Finn to pursue a future in NY, as a way to spend more time together. And Finn did the same when he asked her to come to California. So I believe, they need someone who is following they same path.

As regards Klaine, I've never been a hardcore fan, and if I ever liked them, it was because Blaine made Kurt happy back then in season two,and that's what it mattered to me.

[MoviesAreLife]

Probably that why I ship Kurtbastian sometimes, because the FF I've read about them are so good that I want them together. But then I realize that it wont be possible on Glee, because by one side Sebastian was such a jerk with Kurt and he deserves someone better, and honestly I'm glad he has Adam now.

As regards Finchel, none of them weren't giving away their dreams, by one side Rachel wanted Finn to pursue a future in NY, as a way to spend more time together. And Finn did the same when he asked her to come to California. So I believe, they need someone who is following they same path.

As regards Klaine, I've never been a hardcore fan, and if I ever liked them, it was because Blaine made Kurt happy back then in season two,and that's what it mattered to me.

Yeah, they are just so polar opposite...so different, that they will always be at odds and butting heads. I know "opposites attract", but with Finchel is just doesn't work.

[Lottie2303]

Finchel is a classic example of intense first love that didn't sustain after highschool, because of different dreams and expectations from life. Happens to 99% of people as only a rare number of people are happily together until they die with their highschool sweetheart. Glee actually had a lot of potential again to show that path, create interesting storylines and end Finchel on a high note. Instead they try to force them together, even though the two of them just have no bonds whatsoever anymore, and just do not fit.

I am also happy about Adam and hope he gets more development in S5. Still. Kurtbastian will remain my guilty Glee pleasure!

[MoviesAreLife]

Finchel is a classic example of intense first love that didn't sustain after highschool, because of different dreams and expectations from life. Happens to 99% of people as only a rare number of people are happily together until they die with their highschool sweetheart. Glee actually had a lot of potential again to show that path, create interesting storylines and end Finchel on a high note. Instead they try to force them together, even though the two of them just have no bonds whatsoever anymore, and just do not fit.

I am also happy about Adam and hope he gets more development in S5. Still. Kurtbastian will remain my guilty Glee pleasure!

Lord knows why they will not do the logical thing.

[brisallie]

Yeah, they are just so polar opposite...so different, that they will always be at odds and butting heads. I know "opposites attract", but with Finchel is just doesn't work.

I know that its says, but I've always seen that as two people who're different in personality, but they share the same dreams or opinion about something. In the case of Finchel, both are opposite in their dreams and some aspects of their personality, but overall they have in common this feeling of getting attention from others: Rachel being a star and Finn being a kind of hero.

@Lottie2303, that's another reason why I don't like Finchel and by extension Brittana and Klaine. Is because in RL is hard that high school couple last forever, though I've seen some couples who have lasted but is uncommon, because when you're in HS, they usually live in bubble and everything is perfect in their world, until they face the real one.

[Divalicious]

Initially, I was a huge Klainer, I thought, finally, we are going to see what I always wanted. Kurt, being valued and desired. I always saw Kurt as a great partner. Getting more gorgeous by the hour, smart, talented, a deep capacity for love. He also came with a package deal of Burt, the best dad anywhere. How could his partner NOT go around in constant amazement of being with him? Then I find out just how opposite the writers saw Kurt. They saw him as the girl, but where Rachel and Santana rule.their relationships, Kurt somehow became less because of it.

This year, I came in knowing I should have low expectations, but Glee has done worse than I ever expected. Not only do we get a ton of useless scenes with Blaine getting to interact with everyone and have a ton of songs, we get Kurt in an off screen romance. Even if Chris requested less time on the show they could have done a lot more with the time they had. Blaine got to have all the friendships that Kurt should have. Tina was Kurt's friend first, Sam was Kurt' crush first. Kurt gets the pain of not being the acceptible kind of gay, but Blaine gets the glory. Funny thing, I have always seen Blaine as the beta. Alpha's do not require the acceptance of others, they stand on their own two feet in the face of loss and adversity. Blaine crumbles every time something goes awry. He pushes Kurt away, cheats on him, switches his emotional base to whomever he is with. But, he is written as if he is strong, like he is a hero. I wonder if that is because the writers know that Darren, while charming and charismatic, is limited as an actor. If he played the effeminate "weak" character I think his popularity would have suffered. People love Kurt because he is Kurt, it doesn't matter if he is effeminate, that is just part of him. That is because Chris infuses Kurt with depth and reality, he makes Kurt have substance. Of course, that is also why why some people hate Kurt, because he makes real their biase, that effeminate gays are unacceptable, as though there is only one kind of "right" gay. Darren does humor, and puppydog eyes very well, but he cannot infuse the paper cut out that is Blaine with reality, he needs more tools to work with.

I disagree that Rachel rules her relationship. Her and Finn have this weird dynamic where they sort of cancel each other out and are damaging to each other....you know what I mean? Rachel makes Finn feel bad about himself, and Finn makes Rachel lower her standards and her dreams. She is more than willing to become less ambitious for him, and that just irks me to no end.

I never really got the love for Kurtbastian. I agree there is a chemistry there that usually comes with love/hate relationships (like in Quinntana) but I always felt Kurt was far too good for Sebastard and I just loathed the way he treated Kurt. Everytime I saw him onscreen, I wanted to smack that smirk right off his face. I really can't stand relationships were one person is constantly picking on another....that to me is abusive. That's why I don't like Kurtbastian, because Kurt deserves real love and respect. I also will never ship Kurtofsky (even if Dave has changed his ways...too much bad water under that bridge), or Pezberry because of this. Quinntana doesn't really bother me, because both are evenly matched (not a "nice" character with a "bully" character, but two "mean girls") and they go after each other, rather than one partner constantly demeaning the other.

I don't like Brittana either. Nevermind that the relationship began with lies, manipulation and cheating...but it does seem wildly unbalanced. Santana is mentally aware and Brittany is just....not. While Brittany seems to be holding Santana back because of her childish ways (and releasing a sex tape was just awful of her), I also felt that Santana was very manipulative and even controlling toward Brittany, especially in the "Diva" episode. I got the sense that she liked Brittany so much just because she was easy to control and was so laid back, that she hardly ever stood up to Santana.

What can I say about Klaine that you all haven't already said? You all said it better than I ever could, so I'll just shut up.

Looking how I phrased that line you bolded I think I need to explain. The writers seem to have a bias towards the girl storylines. The guys generally are just there to tell the story. That is why bland Marley has two boys after her. They know their major audience is female, and try to appeal to them, by giving strongish girls and beefcake guys. So, in Rachel's case, for the most part, they keep the story focused on her, and mostly she gets positive stuff, like winning every contest because she is THAT amazing, if she and Finn are together. With Santana you have two females, so hard not to focus on the one who can act. Kurt, considered the "girl" doesn't get the girl treatment of more exposure, Blaine does. Kurt gets all of the negative, and none of the positive. Rachel and Finn both grew a little this year. Santana has grown a bit, and she's actually had little exposure. Blaine, huge amounts of exposure with him becoming more and more immature. Kurt misses whole episodes and has a boyfriend that he has only held hands with as far as we know. That is another reason I am frustrated that Blaine never gets called the "girl" of the relationship, because he so is. I don't think being a girl is a negative, I love being female, but what I hate is when the writers put forth the misconception that being feminine is negative, and only masculinity is revered.

[MoviesAreLife]

Initially, I was a huge Klainer, I thought, finally, we are going to see what I always wanted. Kurt, being valued and desired. I always saw Kurt as a great partner. Getting more gorgeous by the hour, smart, talented, a deep capacity for love. He also came with a package deal of Burt, the best dad anywhere. How could his partner NOT go around in constant amazement of being with him? Then I find out just how opposite the writers saw Kurt. They saw him as the girl, but where Rachel and Santana rule.their relationships, Kurt somehow became less because of it.

This year, I came in knowing I should have low expectations, but Glee has done worse than I ever expected. Not only do we get a ton of useless scenes with Blaine getting to interact with everyone and have a ton of songs, we get Kurt in an off screen romance. Even if Chris requested less time on the show they could have done a lot more with the time they had. Blaine got to have all the friendships that Kurt should have. Tina was Kurt's friend first, Sam was Kurt' crush first. Kurt gets the pain of not being the acceptible kind of gay, but Blaine gets the glory. Funny thing, I have always seen Blaine as the beta. Alpha's do not require the acceptance of others, they stand on their own two feet in the face of loss and adversity. Blaine crumbles every time something goes awry. He pushes Kurt away, cheats on him, switches his emotional base to whomever he is with. But, he is written as if he is strong, like he is a hero. I wonder if that is because the writers know that Darren, while charming and charismatic, is limited as an actor. If he played the effeminate "weak" character I think his popularity would have suffered. People love Kurt because he is Kurt, it doesn't matter if he is effeminate, that is just part of him. That is because Chris infuses Kurt with depth and reality, he makes Kurt have substance. Of course, that is also why why some people hate Kurt, because he makes real their biase, that effeminate gays are unacceptable, as though there is only one kind of "right" gay. Darren does humor, and puppydog eyes very well, but he cannot infuse the paper cut out that is Blaine with reality, he needs more tools to work with.

I disagree that Rachel rules her relationship. Her and Finn have this weird dynamic where they sort of cancel each other out and are damaging to each other....you know what I mean? Rachel makes Finn feel bad about himself, and Finn makes Rachel lower her standards and her dreams. She is more than willing to become less ambitious for him, and that just irks me to no end.

I never really got the love for Kurtbastian. I agree there is a chemistry there that usually comes with love/hate relationships (like in Quinntana) but I always felt Kurt was far too good for Sebastard and I just loathed the way he treated Kurt. Everytime I saw him onscreen, I wanted to smack that smirk right off his face. I really can't stand relationships were one person is constantly picking on another....that to me is abusive. That's why I don't like Kurtbastian, because Kurt deserves real love and respect. I also will never ship Kurtofsky (even if Dave has changed his ways...too much bad water under that bridge), or Pezberry because of this. Quinntana doesn't really bother me, because both are evenly matched (not a "nice" character with a "bully" character, but two "mean girls") and they go after each other, rather than one partner constantly demeaning the other.

I don't like Brittana either. Nevermind that the relationship began with lies, manipulation and cheating...but it does seem wildly unbalanced. Santana is mentally aware and Brittany is just....not. While Brittany seems to be holding Santana back because of her childish ways (and releasing a sex tape was just awful of her), I also felt that Santana was very manipulative and even controlling toward Brittany, especially in the "Diva" episode. I got the sense that she liked Brittany so much just because she was easy to control and was so laid back, that she hardly ever stood up to Santana.

What can I say about Klaine that you all haven't already said? You all said it better than I ever could, so I'll just shut up.

Looking how I phrased that line you bolded I think I need to explain. The writers seem to have a bias towards the girl storylines. The guys generally are just there to tell the story. That is why bland Marley has two boys after her. They know their major audience is female, and try to appeal to them, by giving strongish girls and beefcake guys. So, in Rachel's case, for the most part, they keep the story focused on her, and mostly she gets positive stuff, like winning every contest because she is THAT amazing, if she and Finn are together. With Santana you have two females, so hard not to focus on the one who can act. Kurt, considered the "girl" doesn't get the girl treatment of more exposure, Blaine does. Kurt gets all of the negative, and none of the positive. Rachel and Finn both grew a little this year. Santana has grown a bit, and she's actually had little exposure. Blaine, huge amounts of exposure with him becoming more and more immature. Kurt misses whole episodes and has a boyfriend that he has only held hands with as far as we know. That is another reason I am frustrated that Blaine never gets called the "girl" of the relationship, because he so is. I don't think being a girl is a negative, I love being female, but what I hate is when the writers put forth the misconception that being feminine is negative, and only masculinity is revered.

Oh! I see what you mean now. I totally misunderstood you the first time. Sorry about that!

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