Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread--part 5

[Ranwing]

i think that's why klainers love blaine serenading to kurt so much - imaging prince charming singing a beautiful love to you... (swoon!). how many young girls dream of that? now for us kurtsies who are not into blaine it's a totally different interpretation - instead of seeing it as a big love fest for Kurt, we see it as blaine taking solos away from kurt and forcing kurt to side aside and watch. different premise leads to totally different interpretation of the scene and totally different reaction: they swoon; we rage. For me, I'd rather nobody sings to kurt, and kurt sings to himself every week - or better yet, gimme a Chris Colfer solo album already!

Speaking as the casual Klainer here, I'm sick to death of Darren's infinate solos. Yes, it's sweet that he's expressing his love to Kurt, but I'm tired of it. I'd rather see them have a quiet, private scene with some proper physical affection the way normal couples do. Blaine serenading Kurt is more telling us how in love Blaine is rather than just letting us see it for ourselves. It's a crutch for the show and it's tiring.

And I agree with the Darren/Blaine fans who are upset that he's gotten almost no real characterization as a result. Instead of giving him some proper scenes with and without Kurt and allow the character to be fleshed out, we just get solos. It's lazy writing and we know from sad example that the Glee writers are some of the most disorganized and lazy bunch going.

Since I'm holding onto my belief that Kurt at best will get the same number of vocal performances that he did in season 3, if not less, this is something that I'm not inclined to get irritated about. If I remember right, he had one duet with Rachel in TPPP and then didn't sing again until IAU. This is just Glee's SOP. And given the mess they left his character in at the end of season 3, I'll forgo a solo at this stage for giving Kurt some really meaty scenes as he sorts out his life.

[brisallie]

allow me to rant: while I perfect expect glee to let blaine sing to kurt all the time for continuity's sake, I still want to kick somebody's balls for that matter. rant over.

I saw thic pic on tumblr.

Is all what we need, starting the season seeing how Blaines serenades to Kurt I'm sick of listening him. Aren't more voices on Glee?

Hahaha Kim I like you word-game saying that Blaine is = nothing.

[Buenos]

And I agree with the Darren/Blaine fans who are upset that he's gotten almost no real characterization as a result. Instead of giving him some proper scenes with and without Kurt and allow the character to be fleshed out, we just get solos.

It's amazing how none of the Stans, including Kurtsies are happy with the character development of their fave. Kurt, Rachel, Blaine, Finn, Santana, Puck, Quinn, etc, etc all have reasons to be fuming at the writers. These writers have a strange gift of stripping every character of agency at some point . Take Rachel, while other faves may fume at her favorable treatment,(ie triumphs) her fans (understandably) think the character has been stripped of the very characteristics that made her unique/stand out.

It's like every character on Glee is on a sinking ship with no land in sight and no lifeboats.

[ColferGirl]

It's amazing how none of the Stans, including Kurtsies are happy with the character development of their fave. Kurt, Rachel, Blaine, Finn, Santana, Puck, Quinn, etc, etc all have reasons to be fuming at the writers. These writers have a strange gift of stripping every character of agency at some point . Take Rachel, while other faves may fume at her favorable treatment,(ie triumphs) her fans (understandably) think the character has been stripped of the very characteristics that made her unique/stand out.

It's like every character on Glee is on a sinking ship with no land in sight and no lifeboats.

Actually, I think I'm one of the few people who prefers season3!Kurt to season1!Kurt, so I'm quite happy with his character development. I don't really miss his bitchy, icy snarkiness of season 1, although I'll concede that his lines were much funnier then. I like how Kurt has changed and grown into the mature, sweet person he is now over the courses of seasons 2 and 3. And, in season 3 his snarkiness may be a rare sighting, but it does still exist and come out sometimes, and I personally love it in small doses.

My only complaint is how the narrative, the writers, keep tearing him down again and again with no relief or reward for his suffering in sight. Kurt has to struggle more than anyone, fight harder than anyone, and never gets any happiness or success to balance out all that pain. That's what I hate.

As for the new spoiler, I'm very pleased at the idea of Blaine serenading Kurt just because I love seeing Kurt be loved. (Which is a reason why I adored the deleted Hummelberry scene, too). Kurt especially needs it after the crushing NYADA blow, since the writers weren't kind enough to show him getting comfort or affection right after the rejection. I agree Blaine sings too much, and of course I wish Kurt sang more, but it doesn't make me any less excited for this particular scene.

Though hopefully one day it will be a handsome New York guy singing to Kurt instead of Blaine.

[Buenos]

I personally don't like Kurt being the moral mouth piece at times, such as equating dodge ball to stoning, refusing to use the Sebastian tape to incriminate him on the slushing, telling Quinn her troubles don't equate to Karofsky (though I see somewhat part of his argument) or taking blame for Karofsky's suicide attempt.

Kurt being bitchy or petty some of the time is a dimension , though I don't see how that defines him completely. Granted many times he uses it as a defense mechanism when the world rejects him, but with how his crappy season went it would have been plausible to be more angry and snarky with all the shit laid upon him IMO.

One of the few times I thought Kurt was expressing a full dimensional character was his refusal to give in completely to the blubbering Blaine's "texting is cheating" message in "Wanna dance with somebody". Kurt loved Blaine and ultimately expressed regret for hurting his feelings (though not initially) and remained defiant nearly to the end that he hadn't done something that bad. I liked that aspect of Kurt TBH.

I like the Kurt who could stubbornly refuse to give into the idea of religion that his ND mates expected him to, the Kurt who would eye roll the self centeredness of Rachel, and call out Blaine for being oblivious how he always got the limelight.

The passive, noble Kurt 24/7 bores me to tears if it has no variation with other aspects of his personality. Witty Kurt doesn't necessarily always have to be bitchy Kurt and you only have to compare him with the completely neutered cypher that is Blaine to see that extremes in "niceness" can be just as bad.

[tanita_mors]

^ Couldn't agree more. It's all the flaws that make him perfect as far as I'm concerned. While maturing and having people he trusts and loves does and should eliminate some of his bite shall we say, I feel like the old Kurt has been deleted from the show (unless he is up against Sebastian and even then he wasn't there full force). I'd be happy if they just take Kurt of his high morality horse for start.

[Glorfindel]

^Agreed.
Great post, @Buenos.

News on Carmen Tibideaux:

It's my vacation and I'm headed to the other coast for work. Two shows in Vancouver this weekend River Rock Casino and Red Robinson Theater then to LA to shoot an episode of "GLEE". Did I say "vacation"?

facebook Whoopi

I'm not sure if this is a Kurt spoiler. Carmen will probably be there for Rachel's NYADA storyline. But Kurt is in New York and one can always hope.....I guess.

I would really like an explanation why Kurt didn't get in, or Carmen giving him a thumbs up to continu his musical theatre dreams.

*sigh*

[BlueJazz]

And then some Blainers dare to complain that Kurt is a bad, ungrateful boyfriend because he's never singing to Blaine, when Blaine has sung so many times to Kurt.

LOL. So, they're kinda on the same ship as us? I'm not surprised at the spoiler because it's something that I've expected since S3. And I agree that Kurt hanging out in his old school after graduation is kinda pathetic. But people will be happy because he's with Blaine, right? I bet no one can see that except us. Sigh.

detached from kurt, blaine is nothing. that's why kurt sings "i have nothing". blaine is nothing. kurt has blaine = kurt has nothing. (I love my head canon)

LOL. This is brilliant

^ Couldn't agree more. It's all the flaws that make him perfect as far as I'm concerned. While maturing and having people he trusts and loves does and should eliminate some of his bite shall we say, I feel like the old Kurt has been deleted from the show (unless he is up against Sebastian and even then he wasn't there full force). I'd be happy if they just take Kurt off his high morality horse for start.

THIS. Especially the bolded.

God, almost all the Kurt spoilers so far are disappointing and rage-inducing. I really wanna get excited for Glee again but the odds are against me. Now all I can think of is :

[arina]

I personally don't like Kurt being the moral mouth piece at times, such as equating dodge ball to stoning, refusing to use the Sebastian tape to incriminate him on the slushing, telling Quinn her troubles don't equate to Karofsky (though I see somewhat part of his argument) or taking blame for Karofsky's suicide attempt.

Kurt being bitchy or petty some of the time is a dimension , though I don't see how that defines him completely. Granted many times he uses it as a defense mechanism when the world rejects him, but with how his crappy season went it would have been plausible to be more angry and snarky with all the shit laid upon him IMO.

One of the few times I thought Kurt was expressing a full dimensional character was his refusal to give in completely to the blubbering Blaine's "texting is cheating" message in "Wanna dance with somebody". Kurt loved Blaine and ultimately expressed regret for hurting his feelings (though not initially) and remained defiant nearly to the end that he hadn't done something that bad. I liked that aspect of Kurt TBH.

I like the Kurt who could stubbornly refuse to give into the idea of religion that his ND mates expected him to, the Kurt who would eye roll the self centeredness of Rachel, and call out Blaine for being oblivious how he always got the limelight.

The passive, noble Kurt 24/7 bores me to tears if it has no variation with other aspects of his personality. Witty Kurt doesn't necessarily always have to be bitchy Kurt and you only have to compare him with the completely neutered cypher that is Blaine to see that extremes in "niceness" can be just as bad.

I absolutely agree with you! But I think the writers feel very different and it won't change any time soon. I think even Chris mentioned that Murphy said Kurt always has to take high road, so that is how the writers see him now. Unforunately.

[Delight]

I personally don't like Kurt being the moral mouth piece at times, such as equating dodge ball to stoning, refusing to use the Sebastian tape to incriminate him on the slushing, telling Quinn her troubles don't equate to Karofsky (though I see somewhat part of his argument) or taking blame for Karofsky's suicide attempt.

Kurt being bitchy or petty some of the time is a dimension , though I don't see how that defines him completely. Granted many times he uses it as a defense mechanism when the world rejects him, but with how his crappy season went it would have been plausible to be more angry and snarky with all the shit laid upon him IMO.

One of the few times I thought Kurt was expressing a full dimensional character was his refusal to give in completely to the blubbering Blaine's "texting is cheating" message in "Wanna dance with somebody". Kurt loved Blaine and ultimately expressed regret for hurting his feelings (though not initially) and remained defiant nearly to the end that he hadn't done something that bad. I liked that aspect of Kurt TBH.

I like the Kurt who could stubbornly refuse to give into the idea of religion that his ND mates expected him to, the Kurt who would eye roll the self centeredness of Rachel, and call out Blaine for being oblivious how he always got the limelight.

The passive, noble Kurt 24/7 bores me to tears if it has no variation with other aspects of his personality. Witty Kurt doesn't necessarily always have to be bitchy Kurt and you only have to compare him with the completely neutered cypher that is Blaine to see that extremes in "niceness" can be just as bad.

Great post, Buenos.

In the end, I just want Kurt to maintain the aspects of his personality that keep him three-dimensional. I have misgivings about the writers filing off his rough edges, taking the fangs out of his bite, victimizing him, and refusing to give him any victories except moral ones, because I feel that Kurt has turned into a shadow of what he was. We know that Kurt is so much more than what was shown in Season 3, because of the great potential we saw in him in the earlier seasons. He can be nice, but not at the expense of what made him strong and fierce in the beginning.

Yes, too much niceness can be boring. Same reason why I find Bruce Wayne more interesting than Clark Kent.

[Divalicious]

I like evolved Kurt, because I believe the journey he took to get there. It wasn't just a convenience to write for the writers, you could see Kurt changing as his world changed. Acceptance, having a boyfriend, gaining a family. These are major things, and people would change because of them. It's when the character doesn't change, and you don't know why. i.e. Santana being bitchy because she was lying about her sexuality, but now that she is out, and has a girl friend, it didn't change her behavior towards others, because the writers like bitchy characters, they are funny.

I don't like please-walk-all-over-me Kurt, but now that he is removed from ND and the kiddie environment, I hope to see less and less of that. People know the adult world is a dog eat dog place, and might accept a more forceful guy, even if he is an effeminate gay.

What always surprises me are the Blainers that want Kurt and Blaine to break up, I think they will find unless they get an equally talented new boyfriend (acting wise) Darren's limitations will show as an actor. Not that he is bad, some things he does very well, but he doesn't have the great range that Chris and Cory have. Another reason they will probably never break up fully, because Kurt makes Blaine interesting, and they are fully invested in making Blaine look good. I will be surprised if he is allowed flaws, other than insecurity (because that is cute). Plus, while TPTB love itune sales, I think they also enjoy awards and acclaim, and Chris is the one, outside of Jane, who gives them the best opportunities. In the end, Chris is a bigger draw and better role model, you can tell just by his book tour. It isn't just teenyboppers, it is people of all ages and genders. These aren't people who are going to move onto the next flavor when convenient. Them, like us, are in it for the long haul. Chris is a long term investment.

[Ranwing]

^Agreed.
Great post, @Buenos.

News on Carmen Tibideaux:

It's my vacation and I'm headed to the other coast for work. Two shows in Vancouver this weekend River Rock Casino and Red Robinson Theater then to LA to shoot an episode of "GLEE". Did I say "vacation"?

facebook Whoopi

I'm not sure if this is a Kurt spoiler. Carmen will probably be there for Rachel's NYADA storyline. But Kurt is in New York and one can always hope.....I guess.

I would really like an explanation why Kurt didn't get in, or Carmen giving him a thumbs up to continu his musical theatre dreams.

*sigh*

I was thinking about this on my way to work and considering that Rachel is supposed to be struggling with NYADA and her dance instructor, I'm wondering if rather than focusing on why Kurt didn't get in (and I can understand the logic of why that happened), its to focus on the illogic of Rachel getting admitted. I was very angry that Carmen went to see Rachel at Nationals and seemingly admitted her on the basis of that performance because she stated very clearly why special consideration like Rachel was demanding shouldn't be given. I'd actually like to see some explaination of why she went against her own principles as a professional and and educator and decided that in this one case, the special consideration should be given. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. She'd seen failed auditions before. I'm sure she'd seen numerous impassioned arguments on how special a performer feels that they are and that they deserve another chance. Why in this case did she decide to ignore all president and grant Rachel admission.

Now this is pure speculation, mind you, but I'm wondering if Carmen is there to tell Rachel that she took a huge gamble by granting Rachel admission. Maybe she thought that Rachel was talented enough that she wanted to give her a shot without going through repeated applications and auditions, but now she's seeing that she made a mistake. That Rachel doesn't have the maturity as a performer or a person to handle being in a place like NYADA and there is push back from the staff about this special case that is causing problems. There can also be havoc in the admissions office from hundreds of rejected applicants who are now demanding special consideration on the basis that it was given to Rachel. It could be pointed out that Carmen put both her repuation and NYADAs on the line for Rachel and Rachel is proving unworthy of it. And maybe give Rachel a harsh reminder that somewhere out there is another applicant who didn't botch their audition and in any other year would have been admitted, but ended up with a rejection letter because Rachel was given the chance that she's now blowing.

As for Kurt... I really need to get some follow up as to why he didn't get admitted (along with some real rationalization of why Rachel did). It doesn't have to be cruel and can be done in a way where Kurt may find his fire as a performer reignited if he learns that it was something like a weaker resume compared to another applicant and nothing at all due to his audition peice that was the final deciding factor. Let Kurt walk away with the hope that his dreams of being on Broadway are not in vain.

[fantastica]

I assume anything NYADA will have nothing to do w/ Kurt anymore. actually i prefer this way. any mention of Nyada nowadays is leading to my post traumatic stress. I want Kurt to stay far away from Nyada is possible.

[Buenos]

assume anything NYADA will have nothing to do w/ Kurt anymore. actually i prefer this way. any mention of Nyada nowadays is leading to my post traumatic stress. I want Kurt to stay far away from Nyada is possible.

I agree.

That is why I'm grinding my teeth thinking that he has scenes for season four at McKinley and with New Directions. I wanted him away from McKinley and New Directions, but unfortunately that is impossible.

I realize they can't sever the ties completely with any character, but I'm pissed that as usual, the writers selected Kurt to have the initial angst of not moving beyond LIma for the start of season.

[Glorfindel]

I was thinking about this on my way to work and considering that Rachel is supposed to be struggling with NYADA and her dance instructor, I'm wondering if rather than focusing on why Kurt didn't get in (and I can understand the logic of why that happened), its to focus on the illogic of Rachel getting admitted.
(---)
Now this is pure speculation, mind you, but I'm wondering if Carmen is there to tell Rachel that she took a huge gamble by granting Rachel admission. Maybe she thought that Rachel was talented enough that she wanted to give her a shot without going through repeated applications and auditions, but now she's seeing that she made a mistake. That Rachel doesn't have the maturity as a performer or a person to handle being in a place like NYADA and there is push back from the staff about this special case that is causing problems. There can also be havoc in the admissions office from hundreds of rejected applicants who are now demanding special consideration on the basis that it was given to Rachel. It could be pointed out that Carmen put both her repuation and NYADAs on the line for Rachel and Rachel is proving unworthy of it. And maybe give Rachel a harsh reminder that somewhere out there is another applicant who didn't botch their audition and in any other year would have been admitted, but ended up with a rejection letter because Rachel was given the chance that she's now blowing.

This would be a great story, but it won't happen I think. Not on Glee.

I just hope that if they revisit why Kurt didn't get into NYADA (whether that is with Carmen or not), to deal with fans complaints, it won't be a similar situation and retcon as they did with Finn and Kurt in 'Duets' (No means no / restraining order).
RIB are known for giving into fan 'demands' with a twist. Kurt's 'meaningful journey' to please his disgruntled fans, could very well blow up in our faces.

Frankly: if Kurt will not get into NYADA in the (near) future, I don't want to hear anything about NYADA anymore.
The word 'NYADA' makes me sick.

[Ranwing]

The word 'NYADA' makes me sick.

You're not alone. I felt the exact same way about the WSS storyline after Kurt was cast in his shit part.

NYADA started out as an intriguing idea. Now it's a joke. Now it will always be the once great institution where now, if you whine loud enough and often enough, you can skate in ahead of other worthier applicants. But don't tell the Rachel stans that. As far as they are concerned, she rightfully earned her way into the school.

At least I know what scenes I'll be able to use for bathroom breaks. Lots of bathroom breaks.

[valkeakuulas]

assume anything NYADA will have nothing to do w/ Kurt anymore. actually i prefer this way. any mention of Nyada nowadays is leading to my post traumatic stress. I want Kurt to stay far away from Nyada is possible.

I agree.

That is why I'm grinding my teeth thinking that he has scenes for season four at McKinley and with New Directions. I wanted him away from McKinley and New Directions, but unfortunately that is impossible.

I realize they can't sever the ties completely with any character, but I'm pissed that as usual, the writers selected Kurt to have the initial angst of not moving beyond LIma for the start of season.

I feel I should not focus on spoilers at all because it sets my mind running and because Glee has previously been such a disappointment my thoughts are all horrible. One thing that has been bugging me ever since I heard Kurt would be back at McKinley was the slushies: I'm so afraid since they intend to make Glee Club the bottom dwellers again that Kurt will be sluhsied and that...

I don't want him to be kicked in the head for what he is ever again by the ignorant Lima haters not even for the drama for dramas sake during the first few episodes. And I'd hate if they find any other than realistic reason for Kurt not getting into NYADA.

[Ranwing]

*sigh* The more I actually try to consider the logistics of how this season is going to work, the less optimistic I am that it will be successful. Not when you consider how many storylines they've got to squeeze into the aprox. 45 minutes of actual story-telling time they get for each ep. Even if they split the time between NY and lima evenly (around 20 minutes or so each), it's a huge amount of storytelling that they've got to squeeze through a needle-eye sized slot.

NY Location - As of now there are two major storylines.

Rachel and NYADA - This could easily be the biggest time drain in the NY time alottment. In order to give this story proper focus, they've got to flesh it out with multiple guest characters that will have repeated appearences. Besides the dance teacher played by Kate Hudson, we get at least one episode with Carmen making an appearance and we get the upperclassman/possible love interest. That sounds like a lot, but in order to make this storyline compelling, you've got to have other characters for Rachel to play off of. Her rivals and foils need to be fleshed out and not merely empty suits in the background. It's the kind of storyline that can easily devour the full 45 minutes in an episode, not just the 10 or 15 it's going to get.

Kurt - We know that Kurt will arrive in NY in the first few eps and will have something going on at vogue.com. Like the NYADA storyline, this needs to be fleshed out with at least some recurruing characters (otherwise we're going to have scenes of Kurt sitting in an office by himself). Even though I'm expecting it to get far less focus than NYADA (since Rachel will have little if any part here), it still needs focus to be told with at least some care.

Now this is not including the possibility that Santana and Finn might at some point arrive in NY. Then you will have four major characters in the show that need storytelling time. All in about 25 minutes tops

New Directions - Lima

Even with a highly stripped down focus, they're going to be trying to squeeze a lot in. You've got ND being readied for competition without their biggest guns. You've got Will and Emma's wedding at some point. You've got Sue and her baby. You've got Sue and Rozz agains Figgins. And you've got multiple new characters that need time to be fleshed out and developed. Then you have Blaine, Artie, Tina and hopefully Brittany preparing for graduation and setting up their futures. Even to pay lipservice to all of these characters is a staggering challenge with a full episode to devote to them.

And we would need to allow some alottment for "bridge" moments. Phone calls between Lima and NY that wil connect the two locations so we're not having two completely seperate shows in the same hour. They have to be joined in some small way. Figure one or two minutes, but given how tight the time crunch is going to be, it's going to be a challenge to fit those moments in.

And this is the challenge awaiting a writing staff with a repuation for flying by the seat of their pants and not being able to keep track of storylines from one minute to the next.

Yeah... I can really see this working.

[fantastica]

Casting spoiler

Fwiw, I saw an audition video yesterday (the video was since made private) with a guy in Kurt's storyline. Somebody at the vogue offices. There were a couple of short scene bits, one of them seemed to be an editorial or pitch meeting, the other seemed to be a very quick exchange with Kurt (nothing of particular note, except it seems Kurt's an intern/PA).

From what I gathered SJP's character's name might be Giselle and the guy in Kurt's story line gets Kurt's name wrong in one of the exchanges.

http://www.gleeforum.com/index.php/topic/21197-season-4-general-spoiler-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__2387754

[ColferInspired]

Casting spoiler

Fwiw, I saw an audition video yesterday (the video was since made private) with a guy in Kurt's storyline. Somebody at the vogue offices. There were a couple of short scene bits, one of them seemed to be an editorial or pitch meeting, the other seemed to be a very quick exchange with Kurt (nothing of particular note, except it seems Kurt's an intern/PA).

From what I gathered SJP's character's name might be Giselle and the guy in Kurt's story line gets Kurt's name wrong in one of the exchanges.

http://www.gleeforum.com/index.php/topic/21197-season-4-general-spoiler-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__2387754

Now this sounds promising. I hope this spoiler is accurate.

If this is accurate then we get to see Kurt's journey not just as a bit player in Rachel's storyline.

[Ranwing]

Now what would be perfect is if "Giselle" is a former actress/dancer/model who sees talent in Kurt and helps steer him back into some kind of a performance career. I don't read Vogue all that often but they do have a lot of articles on theater and film. It's not completely out of line for Kurt's boss to have some connections with the business and might call in a favor to get Kurt a shot at his dream.

Here's hoping, folks....

[ColferGirl]

Is it too much to hope for this guy who works at vogue.com to be a potential new love interest for Kurt? And he "forgot" his name because he was stunned by how gorgeous Kurt is in person?

I'll keep on dreaming anyway. (It seems like something Glee would do - Rachel's new love interest studies with her at NYADA, Kurt's new love interest works with him at vogue.com...the writers wouldn't want to creatively branch out more than that and have them meet at, like, Central Park or a NY coffee place or anywhere unexpected )

[Keyser]

I've been pretty much spoiler-free all summer as far as season four goes but this thread has me practically salivating...

[fantastica]

^ don't read it. Most people here has a tendancy to rage over spoilers. I think staying spoiler free is pretty smart. I know I won't be able to. I am addicted to everything Colfer and this board.

[Sani]

I'm actually exited about this.

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