Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 4

[Glorfindel]

^True. Reacting to her just gives her energy.

Don't feed the troll.

[Ranwing]

The issues of Alex just keep bringing us back to a fundamental point that can't be ignored - the quality of actors on Glee is very, very uneven and new cast do not improve the situation. Without good actors to carry storylines, the show becomes little more than a variety hour of popular song covers.

Let's take a look at the cast and see how things have devolved.

Lea: Very good actress & very strong singer.
Chris: Very strong actor and very good singer.
Cory: Very good actor and passable singer (with the right material).
Naya: Good actress and good singer.
Kevin: Good actor and very good singer.
Darren: Passable actor and good singer (though too generic for my tastes).
Matt: Good actor and good singer.
Jane: Very strong actress/non-singer.
Diana: Good actress and passable singer (with the right material)
Jenna: Good actress and very good singer
Harry: Passable actor and passable singer (with the right material). Best left to dancing.
Amber: Passable actress and very strong singer.
Mark: Passable actor and good singer.
Chord: Passable actor and good singer
Heather: Poor actress and very poor singer. Best left to one liners and dancing.

So we already have an issue with very strong actors in the position of having to carry weaker performers, but except for Heather (who was better when Brittany's role was more limited and she wasn't asked to carry bigger plotlines), most of them are at least passable and capable of enriching the roles that they were given. Likewise with singing, except for Heather the group is at least passable (with a few real standouts) and all are capable of doing the vocal performances asked of them. But the key here is that the best singers in the group (Amber, Lea, Chris, Naya, Matt and Darren) are at the very least passable actors that don't drag down the show. Now we have to look at all of the attempts to bring new cast members to the show.

Damian - Extremely poor actor and good singer.
Samuel - Poor actor and passable singer.
Vanessa - Good actress and poor singer
Charice - Poor actress and very good singer.
Alex - Barely passable actor and good singer.

Of these, the only one who actually improves the show with her presence is Vanessa and that's because she was brought in to act, not to sing. She can play her character convincingly and is able to play off of other performers. I actually enjoy and appreciate her presence on the show. The others... they add nothing (and worst, in Damian's case, drag down the rest of the show when asked to carry a plot beyond his capabilities). Not one of these new hires other than Vanessa worked because they were hired as singers, and not as actors.

I don't know how these new characters planned for season 4 are going to play out, but unless they are as least as good actors as they are singers, we're just going to keep on this downward spiral. With the split narrative, Chris, Cory and Lea are no longer in a position where they can carry the weaker cast members. And now with so many of the Very good to passable actors graduated and having no role in ND (Amber, Diana, Mark, Naya), and after this season the rest of the better actor graduating (Kevin, Darren, Jenna), what's going to be left for future seasons is a group of very, very poor actors that have already shown that they cannot carry the plots that will keep Glee viable past season 4. Unless they are able to get some very strong actors who can at least carry a tune, the only option for Glee surviving past next season is to eliminate the McKinley location altogether and shift the focus completely onto the graduated characters.

[tanita_mors]

^^^
I would say Jenna is a Heather caliber actress (very poor) or at best just barely passable. Her stage work maybe be better, but that girl is as wooden as you can be on camera. Also, I think Matt is in the very good actor/singer category, but his material he been BADDDD. Everyone else you are spot on IMO.

[Divalicious]

I find Jenna hard to judge, because she has been given so very little, and she also mostly interacts with a somewhat weak actor, Harry. Usually she is there to gush about Rachel, or someone else, the only moments she's had in three seasons was standing up for her right to solo in season 1, girl power, season 1, and talking to Mike's parents. Her performances have good personality, and she supports the team. I'll wait to see if she actually gets a story of her own this year.

I think I would make Corey a strong actor, despite his character being douchy at times, you still buy what he does. He also has a subtle style, as opposed to Rachel's larger than life, he truly shines in his very few scenes with Chris.

The rest I agree with, especially if they are given material in their wheelhouse. Kevin does wit with great timing, but I don't really buy the angst. Mark has fairly good deadpan, and showed he is also very good at low key angst, but his out and out angry scenes ring false.

Another reason why it kills me that they don't let Chris really shine, he does humor of all types, angst of all types with equal skill. Is it so everyone else doesn't look bad? Is it all a great conspiracy to make the mediocre actors look better? Am I paranoid, hell no.

[Ranwing]

^^^
I would say Jenna is a Heather caliber actress (very poor) or at best just barely passable. Her stage work maybe be better, but that girl is as wooden as you can be on camera. Also, I think Matt is in the very good actor/singer category, but his material he been BADDDD. Everyone else you are spot on IMO.

I think that Jenna is a victim of really crap writing, especially this past season. She doesn't get enough to do under the best of circumstances, but there have been moments when FeistyTina shows up (like when she ranted at Artie for taking her for granted or playing Asian Vampire to put figgins in his place) that are really great. Unfortunately most of the time she just sits in the choir room or makes googoo eyes at Mike. That's going to make any actress look bad.

I'll agree that with the right material (like Make Them Laugh) Matt is amazing, but too often they too often give him material that just doesn't suit his voice (and he should never be allowed to sing anything in falsetto ever again). And it's really unfortunate that they write Will as such an idiot because they make it very difficult for Matt to gain real traction with his character.

With ensemble shows, there's always going to be a variance in the quality of performers. I've seen some shows where you have very evenly talented casts, and others where there is as big a gap between best and worst as you see on Glee. The biggest problem is the fact that the cast needs to be able to at least carry a tune given the show's format and with the desire to increase Itunes sales (which cannot be ignored in casting decisions), they are leaning too heavily in casting singers rather than actors. And this is where they are making a huge mistake. A passable singer can always be made to sound better with the right material and a bit of judicious autotune, but you cannot make a bad actor into an at least passable one (Damien is a perfect example of that).

I may not particularly like Rachel and Finn as characters, but Lea and Cory are pretty well matched as actors and while I can't stand their storylines, I find them entirely believeable and they often manage to elevate crap material. And I'll argue until the end of time that Chris is the single strongest actor on the show, and while I like Darren, he's not match for Chris. But at the very least, Darren doesn't completely drag the scenes he shares with Chris down. And Chris can usually elevate his scenes with Darren to make up for Darren's weaknesses as an actor.

Should add a few of my favorite non-regular performers to this list.

Max: Very good actor/unknown quality as a singer (I know he did show choir, but unfortunately he never got to sing on the show.
Grant: Good actor/passable singer (and who had far more chemistry with Chris than with Darren).
Dott: Very good actress/passable singer

[arina]

For me Cory is a good singer (maybe not in season 1 but he has got a lot of better) and very strong actor. I find Naya very good singer and actor and I actually think Mathew is very strong singer, I find him the best male singer on Glee (with Kevin). Jenna is poor actress imo. I heard Vanessa can sing but her character can't....

[Buenos]

I have to admit that with the right song Cory to me is a very good singer, the thing is his niche is narrow but within that niche he can be impressive. I thought he did a fantastic job on such numbers as "We are young" , "Dashboard Confessional" and " we are the Champions", and to me he sounds good with Lea.

Acting wise I think he's very good. Compare his "dramatic" scenes with someone like Mark or Darren and the contrast is jarring.

[fantastica]

Jenna is a VERY mediocre actress at best, not Heather bad, but still bad. She can do exagerated expressions but nothing subtle.
Matt Morison is a very decent actor. His character always feels very natural and his acting is very mature.

As far as writing goes, I don't get why Finn is "douchy" or Mr. Shue is a bad teacher. They are fine to me but I look at them from a general audience point of view. the only person I look at w/ a fandom glasses is Kurt. Also things like domestic violence etc., I saw so many fans say it's "offensive" but I dont get it. I think it's fine. Sorry I just don't get a lot of fandom complaints. Maybe because I find hte show mostly boring so I don't pay too much attention to everything. It neither excites me nor leads me to rage except the Kurt parts. So however they want to write the other characters, it's fine w/ me and I don't find anything offensive aside from the often offensive "jokes" that pokes fun at character's appearances. I don't really enjoy all these constant insults that glee relies on for "comedy". To me the show is 99% not funny at all.

[brisallie]

I'm agree that Jenna haven't have the opportunity to prove how much she can do as an actress. What I've seen now is that she's good doing her job, not better or worse than others, probably better than Heather.

And as Ranwing said, if Glee doesn't find good actors able to carry very well their plots, personally I gonna feel like I'm watching High School Musical 4.0. Once someone said they could hire good actors and train them to be good singers, like they have done with Cory. Although the ideal would be to have a cast as good at acting and singing.

[tanita_mors]

I have to admit that with the right song Cory to me is a very good singer, the thing is his niche is narrow but within that niche he can be impressive. I thought he did a fantastic job on such numbers as "We are young" , "Dashboard Confessional" and " we are the Champions", and to me he sounds good with Lea.

Acting wise I think he's very good. Compare his "dramatic" scenes with someone like Mark or Darren and the contrast is jarring.

I agree. Cory has a limited range and a niche, but within it he is excellent - some of my favorite solos from the show are his (I'll Stand By You, Jessie's Girl, Not the End - too bad it wasn't in the show,...)(Sort of like DC for me - good with indie rock and pop, but not much else). And yes, Cory and Lea sound great. They have fantastic vocal chemistry and I love most of their duets or group numbers together.

Also, Cory has natural timing, both comedic and dramatic. You can tell that he is an actor, first and far-most, just like you can see in DC performance's that he relay's heavily on his singing as a distinguishing characteristic. If he didn't get all those popular songs and people didn't swoon at his feet because he is so dreamy while he serenades you, he would be just another pretty, mediocre face in Hollywood.

[fantastica]

people who appreciates and demands good acting don't watch this show, at least not anymore. This show is for kids, or the kids in adults. The plots are over simplified and lack any depth whatsoever. The musical numbers are the stars. Plots are just fillers. Is it HS MUsical 4.0? Yes but a bit better, and w/ Kurt it's actually worth watching. Without Kurt, I don't care, because I would watch neither.

[tanita_mors]

Jenna is a VERY mediocre actress at best, not Heather bad, but still bad. She can do exagerated expressions but nothing subtle.
Matt Morison is a very decent actor. His character always feels very natural and his acting is very mature.

As far as writing goes, I don't get why Finn is "douchy" or Mr. Shue is a bad teacher. They are fine to me but I look at them from a general audience point of view. the only person I look at w/ a fandom glasses is Kurt. Also things like domestic violence etc., I saw so many fans say it's "offensive" but I dont get it. I think it's fine. Sorry I just don't get a lot of fandom complaints. Maybe because I find hte show mostly boring so I don't pay too much attention to everything. It neither excites me nor leads me to rage except the Kurt parts. So however they want to write the other characters, it's fine w/ me and I don't find anything offensive aside from the often offensive "jokes" that pokes fun at character's appearances. I don't really enjoy all these constant insults that glee relies on for "comedy". To me the show is 99% not funny at all.

Me either. I think far to many people forget that this is just another tv show, and not a huge life changing experience. People have built Glee so big for their effect on culture and gay content, that with expectations like that you can be nothing but disappointed. Again, maybe because I watch a lot of tv, I don't connect to Glee as deeply as some other viewers. I get upset when the character I love gets crapes on and his storyline sucks, but I don't get emotionally involved with all the PSA crap that Glee does. - I don't need tv to teach me right from wrong, that is what parents are for and I personally think mine did a good job. Not to mention, I have watched some far more politically incorrect shows and with far more questionable material. Glee is taken far to effing seriously as far as I'm concerned.

[fantastica]

I don't care them doing PSA themes. I don't care they show that texting while driving can be fatal (it often is). I don't mind they show coach bieast struggled but eventually got out of her abusive marital relationship. What I dont like is when at the end all the main character that does "wrong things" end up learning a "lesson" or turns right, such as Rachel demanding her bling bling in the xmas episode but eventually agree to give it to the Salvation Army. And Sebastian suddenly break out of his character and admit that he's been douchy all the time; or Santana and Quinn are now both great friends w/ Rachel; This is just too corny. That's when characters don't appear realistic enough to make me care.

[Buenos]

The musical numbers are the stars

Which is why it annoys me when Chris isn't highlighted in numbers; to me it's like being in a musical and not getting songs.

[Ranwing]

Which is why it annoys me when Chris isn't highlighted in numbers; to me it's like being in a musical and not getting songs.

Again, it's all Itunes sales. Chris's don't sell as well as the others and since Teenage Dream, Itunes sales seem to determine who gets the majority of the songs. There's a reason why we got inundated with Rachel, Blaine, Santana and Mercedes solos - they sell.

Of course, the fact that a lot of solos did nothing to move the plot forward?

[fantastica]

you got it backwards honey. it's the plot that moves the songs forward. the songs are chosen first, then they will write the plot to fill in the blanks. think about how blaine's "it's ok but not alright" was brought on.

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