Re: General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 5

[brisallie]

 

Ryan and his shameless favoritism. I wonder if he would have greeted the other characters if their birthday would have been revealed.

[sheny]

^
Kurt's birthday is on May 27th, the same as Chris'. It was revealed in season 3 episode 7, when he was writing his NYADA application. Fans make gifsets and other pretty things on Tumblr to celebrate it. But Kurt is not important enough for Ryan to acknowledge and tweet about his birthday.

[AnneNeville]

To clarify: I think it's not so much the rom com role perse but what it would represent:  that the perception of someone being gay wouldn't impact the audience or the bottom line of a project's financial viability.  It would mean a shift in how HW views things.


It's sort of how the U.S.  having a Black president was always a theoretical discussion/possibility until it actually happened.

People used to be convinced that a gay man couldn't pull a straight guy convincingly. But then there was Neil Patrick Harris as Barney Stinson.

[AnneNeville]

^
Kurt's birthday is on May 27th, the same as Chris'. It was revealed in season 3 episode 7, when he was writing his NYADA application. Fans make gifsets and other pretty things on Tumblr to celebrate it. But Kurt is not important enough for Ryan to acknowledge and tweet about his birthday.

I don't think it's about favoritism. I think it's just PR. Rachel really is the show's lead, at least in theory.

[sheny]

“Lea [Michele]’s Rachel was going to have become a big Broadway star, the role she was born to play. Finn was going to have become a teacher, settled down happily in Ohio, at peace with his choice and no longer feeling like a Lima loswer. The very last line of dialogue was to be this: Rachel comes back to Ohio, fulfilled and yet not, and walks into Finn’s glee club. “What are you doing here?” he would ask. “I’m home,” she would reply. Fade out. The end.”

 - Ryan Murphy on the Glee ending he always had planned

Entertainment Weekly: Cory Monteith by Ryan Murphy

Rachel was going to become a big Broadway star while Finn waits for her back in Lima. Wow, that's the best ending ever   . 

[Ranwing]

I'm going to stay it now (and I'm prepared to duck rocks thrown at me) - I am sick to death about hearing about Rachel being "born" to be a star. This is an absolutely absurd mythology that's been used to justify her basically having a cake walk to her "destiny". Is Rachel talented? Yes. Is the the most talented person in the universe? Not hardly and she's not at all suitable for every role that she's said that she wanted. But because the show created this idiot idea that she was born to be a star and ignore the fact that acheiving that level of success is part talent, part hard work and part sheer good luck in getting the right opportunities. Success is never a 100% certainty, no matter how talented you might be (and there are plenty of untalented hacks - *coughDarrenCrisscough* - that find success over far more talented individuals). They've made Rachel's accent so borning and trite that I just can't find it in my heart to root for her.

And can they stop trying to milk Finn's/Cory's death and how Rachel is overcoming so much? It's so damn disrespectful.

Ok... rant over.

[Lottie2303]

^ Seriously, what a bad and condescending ending.

[valkeakuulas]

I'm home! That is really cheesy option. I can go to any Harlequin selling book store and find a good romance novel which has the exact same fullfillment of life as Ryan had planned in his silly little mind. Is he going demented by revealing this "facinating" plan of his?

ETA: Just to contemplate here as well: is this kind of ending really what people still want? Can't stories be a little bit more inventive even if the girl gets the guy?

[Buenos]

I ranted over in the "Snark and Bark" but I cannot believe how self serving Ryan Murphy is pretending to be THE father figure to Cory Monteith, as if he was forced into the role by an orphan Cory who was all of 25 or 26 at the time and was a veteran of other TV roles...

And pretending that Cory was "training wheels for the father I've become" JFC, is he writing the script for for his own autobiographical movie?

[fantastica]

actually that ending is pretty much all they could do, if they wanted to keep finchel together as a couple at the end of the show. finn just diddn't look like someone who would enjoy NYC. realistically they would break up, but in gleeland, they couldn't at the end. it was meant to be a fairy tale ending anyway. now that klaine is the only fairy tale relationship it makes me cringe even more.

[Lottie2303]

Seriously, I could write an essay, but that ending is wrong on so many levels. Even if I would have liked Finchel and Cory would still be alive, that is one awful ending   

[AnneNeville]

I agree that it is an awful ending, but I also agree with fantastica that they kind of wrote the story so that there was only one possible way they could end it.

[Buenos]

actually that ending is pretty much all they could do,  if they wanted to keep finchel together as a couple at the end of the show. finn just diddn't look like someone who would enjoy NYC. realistically they would break up, but in gleeland, they couldn't at the end. it was meant to be a fairy tale ending anyway. now that klaine is the only fairy tale relationship it makes me cringe even more.

Goodness knows I realize Klaine has all kinds of separate issues, but I don't think you can compare Klaine ending up together in the same category as the proposed Finchel.  The problem with Finchel is that one or the other would have to suppress their dreams /goals or even comfort level.  The show pointed out that Finn did not belong in New York, he would not be happy there or in a rushed frenzied environment and Rachel would not be happy giving up her Broadway dreams/life that she worked all her life to reach for.

But because the show created this idiot idea that she was born to be a star and ignore the fact that acheiving that level of success is part talent, part hard work and part sheer good luck in getting the right opportunities.

Not true, the show pointed out as early as the  Season One pilot episode  that Rachel was among the hardest working members of ND, working constantly  to hone her talent daily.  It's one thing to argue that Rachel has gotten too many breaks too quickly, but I disagree the "hard work" element has been missing with Rachel.  She has been portrayed as determined and even comically focused to trying  to achieve stardom on Broadway, working on dancing, singing , etc.  The hard work trope has been there.

For whatever reasons, some performers do seem "star crossed" and you hear their contemporaries in HS and college saying " Oh I always knew So and so was special and was going to be a star"..It doesn't always work out that way I grant you (many dreams come crashing down) but over night successes DO  happen in show biz.   Betty Buckley in her very FIRST audition on Broadway her first few days in NY moved over from the mid west got the lead female  starring role in the musical "1776".

[Ranwing]

Not true, the show pointed out as early as Season One premeire  that Rachel was among the hardest working member of ND, working constantly  to hone her talent daily.  It's one thing to argue that Rachel has gotten too many breaks too quickly, but I disagree the "hard work" element has been missing with Rachel.  She had been portrayed  trying her best in whatever she does.

The point that I was trying to make is that working hard and being talents aren't always enough to be successful. There isn't a 100% guarantee that Rachel would achieve any of her goals just because she's talented. There are many thousands of exceptionally talented actors/singers/artists who never make it big despite working at it all their lives. Having the right opportunities and being in a position to take advantage of them, and sometimes just plain luck (being in the right place at the right moment) figure into things a great deal.

My problem with Rachel's story is that she's had no real meaningful obstacles or challenges that aren't either swiftly overcome, ignored or expunged in order to give her a rather seamless walk to her goal. She blows her NYADA audition and offends Ms. Tibideaux with her harassment, but she's given the primary focus at their Nationals performance (with the solo and lead in the group number) to negate that. She has a dance teacher who rightly points out that Rachel is not nearly as skilled a dancer as she claimed (finally bringing Rachel's talents more in line with Lea's capabilities) but she's made into a psychotic bitch who's criticisms can be ignored (until they apparently lobotomized Cassandra and she became Rachel's cheerleader). The director for Funny Girl has very real and credible reservations about signing her for the part and she completely blows her chemistry reading with the lead actor, but she gets the part anyway because she sang a song in the diner.

Rachel isn't allowed to fail. Rachel isn't given a real challenge to overcome (like not getting the part having it stick and then having to rally her determination to continue on towards her goal despite her disappointment). Rachel wants something and sooner or later she gets it, whether it makes sense in the storyline or not. It's not that I want to see Rachel fail so much as I want her story to be compelling. For the past two seasons, it's been anything but for me. It's one thing for a character to have a goal to focus on, but unless there's some real possibility that she won't get it (and let's be frank... in show business the odds are steeply against you no matter how talented or hard working you are), it's just going through the motions before she wins everything.

[Buenos]

Have you seen ANY back stage musical?   The ingenue  in the end always gets success.       Rachel is not a Broadway star *yet* and we are already in the fifth year of Glee.

[Ranwing]

Yes, and I find those stories trite and completely lacking in imagination and originality. I don't have a real issue with Rachel becoming a big star... eventually. They've just made it such a swift and easy process for her. And I do know that there are sometimes overnight successes. But far more often there are the people who look like they became instant successes after many years of working unnoticed and in the lower rungs of the theater world.

What would I have found more interesting? Rachel not getting Funny Girl (or even getting a final callback because her complete lack of professional experience should have been a major consideration) and starting at the bottom to work her way up to the starring role that she craves so much. Let her do tiny parts in off-off Broadway productions that sometimes close immediately after opening and learning how to really be in a cast. Not for her to go from Star of ND to Star of NYADA to Star on Broadway.

Even if they really drag this storyline out (and rehersals generally last a few months before previews), the end result will be the same. Rachel gets her big debut on Broadway and likely instant stardom (because they would never allow her to have poor reviews). Unless something really bad happens and the show either loses its investors and shuts down or Rachel overreaches and gets fired, I just can't find it at all interesting.

[Buenos]

What would I have found more interesting? Rachel not getting Funny Girl (or even getting a final callback because her complete lack of professional experience should have been a major consideration) and starting at the bottom to work her way up to the starring role that she craves so much. Let her do tiny parts in off-off Broadway productions that sometimes close immediately after opening and learning how to really be in a cast. Not for her to go from Star of ND to Star of NYADA to Star on Broadway.

I completely agree that would have been much more interesting.

The one thing that show did establish well back in S1 is that Rachel is a "star" , en exceptional performer.  I think the big "moment" was when Rachel pulled out "DROMP" at Sectionals to save the day.  Whether one likes Lea's personal style or not, that number worked in showing why Rachel was the lead character in ND that the others hated, loved, envied, feared, etc.    (That is why New Directions now seems so lifeless, there are no stars in that choir.  They pretend Darren as Blaine is this fantastic choir performer but on Screen it falls apart because while he has some charm, he lacks the heft and gravitas (much less the vocal fire power) of a genuine star performer) 


The problem was the show has always had problems creating genuine obstacles for Rachel, because as you put it, they just have everyone cave in and gush she is so special. Personally I would have preferred Kurt getting into NYADA and Rachel having to sludge though months in the city until she got a second audition.  Ditto "Funny Girl".   The journey should be more interesting  so that the final payback is emotionally rewarding.  When Kurt got into NYADA with "Being Alive" it was such a triumphant moment because the audience knew what it cost him to get there.

[Ranwing]

What made Rachel's season one progression work for me (even though there were moments when I seriously disliked her behavior) was that nothing just came to her. And she lost at least as often as she won. She made huge mistakes that came back to bite her in the ass in a huge way that didn't just vanish because of the magic trap door. There were times when she had to shoulder some pretty signifigant consequences for her lapses in judgement. Which was why her performance of DROMP was such a triumph - because she's overcome so much to reach that moment.

It's such a contrast to now where she's never shown to have any real competition. Perhaps if they'd been more realistic with the Funny Girl auditions, showing very stiff competition at every level starting with Rachel nearly lost in the sea of auditioners at the open call it would have been more satisifying (even if still unrealistic) for her to land the role. But instead we saw nothing of any of the other people in contention for the part that could give her a run for her money. The only other open call auditioner we saw was the big girl who couldn't carry a tune and would never been considered. They dropped a few famous names later on who were "considered" but it's again a case of telling and not showing.

For me, as someone who is a writer, the struggle to achieve a goal is at the heart of most great stories. If the goal is achieved relatively quickly and the struggle doesn't come across as genuine, then the story falls flat and feels contrived. This is where I am with Rachel right now. And why I find Kurt's story (what little they're willing to show us) so much more compelling - because for him there is nothing certain about acheiving his goals.

[Buenos]

The show had a great opportunity in NYADA to show a world of top grade competitors and rivals even comically to Kurt and Rachel.

Here is the maddening thing, Both Lea and Chris do have IMO "star " quality and  such a journey of struggle for both of them  to finally triumph would be believable to the audience.

I honestly think that Ryan Murphy is not interested in their journey at all anymore.

[brisallie]

I agree that it is an awful ending, but I also agree with fantastica that they kind of wrote the story so that there was only one possible way they could end it.

Agree.

Also I believe that ending would have been awful and kinda predictable. I personally believe these two would have take different ways, and the possibilities of being endgame were unlikely. If Rachel ever comeback to Lima, it will be years after she got her success at Broadway, and as regards Finn, I saw him getting married with another girl. A girl who has her similar lifestyle. But is true, they didn't had another way to make this work.

Oh, and count me as someone who also disliked that Ryan sees himself of Cory's 'father figure'. Is true that Glee leaded him to success, but he had started to work in the biz longtime ago.

[Glorfindel]

“Lea [Michele]’s Rachel was going to have become a big Broadway star, the role she was born to play. Finn was going to have become a teacher, settled down happily in Ohio, at peace with his choice and no longer feeling like a Lima loswer. The very last line of dialogue was to be this: Rachel comes back to Ohio, fulfilled and yet not, and walks into Finn’s glee club. “What are you doing here?” he would ask. “I’m home,” she would reply. Fade out. The end.”

 - Ryan Murphy on the Glee ending he always had planned

Entertainment Weekly: Cory Monteith by Ryan Murphy

Rachel was going to become a big Broadway star while Finn waits for her back in Lima. Wow, that's the best ending ever   . 

That ending is horrible, for both Finn and Rachel, tbh.  

And Ryan: please shut the f*ck up. You're romantisizing your (sometimes troubled) work relationship with a dead actor, making yourself the big hero and saviour in his brave story, and it's despicable.   

I'm home! That is really cheesy option. I can go to any Harlequin selling book store and find a good romance novel which has the exact same fullfillment of life as Ryan had planned in his silly little mind. Is he going demented by revealing this "facinating" plan of his?

It's basically how The Lord of the Rings trilogy ended (but it actually worked there).

Really, this was Ryans brilliant idea of Glee's ending?
Rachel would never go back to Lima like that. Once she's a star she would not look back again.
And Finn deserved a little more than never  leaving his birth town (and he wanted to get away from Lima already in the Pilot). There's nothing wrong with him eventually ending up as a teacher in his hometown after e.g. studying elsewhere, but then letting him wait with getting a real life (like family) for Rachel to come home in what... 10-15 years?
Jeez.   

I ranted over in the "Snark and Bark" but I cannot believe how self serving Ryan Murphy is pretending to be THE father figure to Cory Monteith, as if he was forced into the role by an orphan Cory who was all of 25 or 26 at the time and was a veteran of other TV roles...

And pretending that Cory was "training wheels for the father I've become" JFC, is he writing the script for for his own autobiographical movie?

Yes, basically.

He's so full of bullshit. I don't want to stereotype, but Ryan is a prime example of a drama queen.

[Ranwing]

The show had a great opportunity in NYADA to show a world of top grade competitors and rivals even comically to Kurt and Rachel.

Here is the maddening thing, Both Lea and Chris do have IMO "star " quality and  such a journey of struggle for both of them  to finally triumph would be believable to the audience.

I honestly think that Ryan Murphy is not interested in their journey at all anymore.

Especially because they don't have to be in competition with one another (though I don't think Rachel will ever completely lose this competitive streak she has even with her friends). They could both have chances to excel and have things that they struggle with. For Kurt we know that his uniqueness can offer challenges in being cast and Rachel can be given the opposite issue - being talented but too much like a lot of big voiced girls. That would have been interesting.

I'm sorry that they drained all the drama out of Rachel's story because they did make it boring. And it leaves Lea with little to do. We've gotten one real rehearsal scene and unless they show some real tension (such as Rachel being in a battle of wills with the director and possibly coming out on the wrong end of their fights), it really is dull. Which is a shame since we're supposed to root for her and it's hard for me to bring myself to root for something that they've been telegraphing is a sure thing.

[Buenos]

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2013/12/20/lea-micheles-cannonball-outsells-every-2013-glee-single/

It did not begin its run as a monster, but Lea Michele’s “Cannonball” definitely impressed within the context of the “Glee” universe.

And thanks to that impressive opening week, Michele becomes the first “Glee” cast member to land on Billboard’s Hot 100 as a solo artist.

Written by Sia, Benny Blanco and Stargate, “Cannonball” moved 51,000 digital copies in its first week to rank at number 22 on the Billboard Digital Songs chart and number 75 on the Hot 100.

While “Cannonball” represents Lea Michele’s first big music move outside of the “Glee” walls, it would be impossible not to compare its performance against recent “Glee” releases.

And it is a very pleasant flavor of comparison.

The “Cannonball” opening week sales count of 51,000 exceeds that of any “Glee” single from 2013.

The show’s covers of “Let Me Love You” and “Make You Feel My Love,” the latter of which was performed by Michele, moved 48,000 and 46,000 opening week copies, respectively, ranked as the hottest 2013 sellers.

They charted at 91 and 84 on the Hot 100, respectively.

One would, in fact, have to go all the way back to May 2012 to find a “Glee” single that charted higher than “Cannonball.” The cover of “Shake It Out,” that single, opened at number 71 following its inclusion in the “Choke” episode.

[ColferInspired]

http://headlineplanet.com/home/2013/12/20/lea-micheles-cannonball-outsells-every-2013-glee-single/

It did not begin its run as a monster, but Lea Michele’s “Cannonball” definitely impressed within the context of the “Glee” universe.

And thanks to that impressive opening week, Michele becomes the first “Glee” cast member to land on Billboard’s Hot 100 as a solo artist.

Written by Sia, Benny Blanco and Stargate, “Cannonball” moved 51,000 digital copies in its first week to rank at number 22 on the Billboard Digital Songs chart and number 75 on the Hot 100.

While “Cannonball” represents Lea Michele’s first big music move outside of the “Glee” walls, it would be impossible not to compare its performance against recent “Glee” releases.

And it is a very pleasant flavor of comparison.

The “Cannonball” opening week sales count of 51,000 exceeds that of any “Glee” single from 2013.

The show’s covers of “Let Me Love You” and “Make You Feel My Love,” the latter of which was performed by Michele, moved 48,000 and 46,000 opening week copies, respectively, ranked as the hottest 2013 sellers.

They charted at 91 and 84 on the Hot 100, respectively.

One would, in fact, have to go all the way back to May 2012 to find a “Glee” single that charted higher than “Cannonball.” The cover of “Shake It Out,” that single, opened at number 71 following its inclusion in the “Choke” episode.

This is wonderful news.  

I am so happy for her.

Well, her and Chris do have the biggest fanbases, so that is one reason why it is selling so well.

And like Chris she is probably getting more newer fans that just love the album and song.

[ColferInspired]

“
Best Episode: ”The Quarterback”

Erin Strecker: ”The episode did two very smart things right off the bat: First of all, Glee picked up three weeks after Finn’s funeral, so viewers were spared the uncomfortable, too-close-to-home realness of watching the cast act out a funeral of a friend. Secondly, the show didn’t say how exactly Finn died; instead, Kurt stated that it isn’t important how someone dies, but instead how they lived their life. And so the focus of the episode was on how exactly football-star-turned-national-singing-champ Finn Hudson lived his all-too-short life: Kindly, sweetly and compassionately.”



Worst Episode: ”The Puppet Master”

Samantha Highfill: ”I love Blaine’s voice as much as the next person, but this was just too much. The cheesy puppets and the bubbly feel-good song? If I could have fast-forwarded, I probably would have. I love Queen and a fun, happy-go-lucky performance, but I already wasn’t feeling Blaine’s narcissism, and I just couldn’t handle this [performance of ‘You’re My Best Friend.’]”
”

—	EW: 50 TV Series’ Best and Worst Episodes of 2013 (via heyerchick)

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