Re: The Land of Stories 2 : The Enchantress Returns Read and Discuss thread!

[fantastica]

i totally believe that people are born either neutral or at least slightly bad, because for survivle we were all selfish. we scream and yell right out of the womb so we can harrass our mothers to give us round the clock care. later on we have to learn the concept of "sharing", "caring for others" and empathy. of course environments including one's family/cultural upbringing has a huge impact on his/her character too. just don't discount nature completely. we are all naturally selfish to some extent because it's a survival instinct.

[Lottie2303]

I will say in advance, I have no degree in psychology and only speak with a dangerous amount of half-knowledge. The famous nature vs nurture debate... However I believe there are people who are evil by nature. Sociopaths and psychopaths come to mind. They all do not end up as serial killers because they can actually be trained to understand and respect sympathy, but especially psychopaths are disconnected from feelings and empathy without any interference. Mind you, not all psychopaths are actually killers (there is a strong suggestions can many powerful CEO's and politicians are actually psychopaths), and not all (serial)-killers/criminals are sociopaths/psychopaths.

There are quite a few monsters (i.e. serial killers and rapists) who had a normal upbringing, friends, loving parents, no problems at school and still committed horrendous crimes. Not all criminals are criminals because of their history or upbringing. However I agree a larger amount of people start to be criminals because of their upbringing (i.e. the environment, parents, school etc). The names of Ted Bundy and Co are known because they thankfully are the exception, even in the world of violence and criminality.

I think we repel against the idea of nature, as it is harder to prevent. We like to think it is someones faults, someone we can blame, and the oppressor has some reasons. It is obviously very unsettling to find out how cold-hearted and malicious some criminals are and how they treat their victims. It is the biggest fear itself that I/YOU could be the victim. We like to think we can prevent it. I do believe there are ways to prevent it. But I don't believe any sufficient tools and techniques are used yet, because no parent will ever believe their little child could actually be a danger. Even though that child may need all the help to adjust to society, to love a normal life.

But overall, I believe the conception all criminals had neglecting parents/mothers, grew up in abusive households or were bullied, is not true. There are people who commit crimes because they can do and they like power. As easy and unsettling as that.

EDIT: I think I totally mixed up sociopaths and psychopaths...

[MoviesAreLife]

I'd like to believe that people are born good, and that society messes them up later on. I guess my theory is not grounded in nature, but in spirituality...what I'd like to believe. Because in nature, animals kill each other without a second thought. (and we are mammals). Children are not perfect angles and can be mean and selfish. Our id develops first (selfish, basic part of us that seeks pleasure without a thought to who were hurt), then our ego develops (mediates between id and superego), and lastly, our superego is formed (sense of morals).

I guess it's really disturbing to me that there have been a small number of "bad seed" cases in which there is no reason that this person turned psycho. It does not make logical sense to me. It does not compute. Why would someone go bad without a cause? Where is the cause and effect? In an overwhelming number of criminal cases, there are reasons (NOT EXCUSES). So those stubborn few confuse me. Why would someone do that? Then again, there have been theories of child abuse in even the "bad seed" cases, but it's all speculation. Why would someone choose this if they felt they didn't "have to"?

I want to and do believe that people are basically good and want to do the right thing, thanks to empathy and the "do unto others" golden rule. It's just the jackasses that make the most noise and that the media focuses on. To hear the news tell it, we are in shark infested waters. Are we really?

I believe most serial killers/rapists/child abusers have been abused in the past, but what about those who were not? WTF?

[MoviesAreLife]

I think this book is so much better than the first. There is more description and a better flow...not as choppy and amateurish. The "said" did not bother me or come across as jarring this time around. The chapter in which Alex has her dream and meets Alice, Lucy, Dorothy and Wendy in her mind is one of my favorites. In a world of fantasy and magic, this is a purely psychological chapter and I think it's really cool. We all have characters residing in our subconscious, don't we? Especially fanfic writers! Chris is such a big Harry Potter fan, I'm shocked he didn't include Hermione Granger in this chapter!

[Lottie2303]

I think this book is so much better than the first. There is more description and a better flow...not as choppy and amateurish. The "said" did not bother me or come across as jarring this time around. The chapter in which Alex has her dream and meets Alice, Lucy, Dorothy and Wendy in her mind is one of my favorites. In a world of fantasy and magic, this is a purely psychological chapter and I think it's really cool. We all have characters residing in our subconscious, don't we? Especially fanfic writers! Chris is such a big Harry Potter fan, I'm shocked he didn't include Hermione Granger in this chapter!

Copyright. Hermoine belongs to JKR, while all other characters are property of the public. Just like all the fairy tale characters  

[MoviesAreLife]

I think this book is so much better than the first. There is more description and a better flow...not as choppy and amateurish. The "said" did not bother me or come across as jarring this time around. The chapter in which Alex has her dream and meets Alice, Lucy, Dorothy and Wendy in her mind is one of my favorites. In a world of fantasy and magic, this is a purely psychological chapter and I think it's really cool. We all have characters residing in our subconscious, don't we? Especially fanfic writers! Chris is such a big Harry Potter fan, I'm shocked he didn't include Hermione Granger in this chapter!

Copyright. Hermoine belongs to JKR, while all other characters are property of the public. Just like all the fairy tale characters  

Oh!   Of course...*feels stupid* Haha!

[MoviesAreLife]

But what about Lucy? She's not a fairy tale character, is she?

[Lottie2303]

But what about Lucy? She's not a fairy tale character, is she?

No, none of the four girls are. All are from 'our' world who travel in other dimensions (Narnia, Oz, Wonderland and Neverland) and have great adventures. They basically reflect Alex journey in the Land of Stories.

[MoviesAreLife]

But what about Lucy? She's not a fairy tale character, is she?

No, none of the four girls are. All are from 'our' world who travel in other dimensions (Narnia, Oz, Wonderland and Neverland) and have great adventures. They basically reflect Alex journey in the Land of Stories.

I noticed that he used the original version of Dorothy (the silver slippers) instead of the one played by Judy Garland with those ruby slippers of hers.  

[fantastica]

just finished reading the whole thing. i read the last 1/4 in one night. i think the second book is a lot better than the first. it's less predictable, has more original plots and ties a lot of things together weaving a tight web. i really have to marvel his imagination and storytelling ability. i think his writing has also improved - certainly the more you write the better you get. overall, a great read for a kid, and a fun and interesting read for adults too.

[MoviesAreLife]

just finished reading the whole thing. i read the last 1/4 in one night. i think the second book is a lot better than the first. it's less predictable, has more original plots and ties a lot of things together weaving a tight web. i really have to marvel his imagination and storytelling ability. i think his writing has also improved - certainly the more you write the better you get. overall, a great read for a kid, and a fun and interesting read for adults too.

Agreed! Everything is just better. While he had a great imagination in the first, he had less literary tools to express himself. This book was such an improvement from the first. I can't wait to see what he does for the third book in TLOS series.

[ColdFlame96]

Omg I just finished chapter 6 and all I have to say is what the fuck is happening??? The dog is Sir Lampton? But how? Bobs the one who gave him to the twins, so how did he get a hold of him in the first place? So confused.

Also, Connors my favorite! He always has the best lines.

[Lottie2303]

Omg I just finished chapter 6 and all I have to say is what the fuck is happening??? The dog is Sir Lampton? But how? Bobs the one who gave him to the twins, so how did he get a hold of him in the first place? So confused.

Also, Connors my favorite! He always has the best lines.

I was actually so disappointed. I loved that the twins had a dog. And suddenly he turned out to be Sir Lampton  

What do you think about Bob? I really like it that Chris suggests that their is love even after the death of a very beloved person.

[ColdFlame96]

Omg I just finished chapter 6 and all I have to say is what the fuck is happening??? The dog is Sir Lampton? But how? Bobs the one who gave him to the twins, so how did he get a hold of him in the first place? So confused.

Also, Connors my favorite! He always has the best lines.

I was actually so disappointed. I loved that the twins had a dog. And suddenly he turned out to be Sir Lampton  

What do you think about Bob? I really like it that Chris suggests that their is love even after the death of a very beloved person.

Honestly, I e watched so many crime shows that I'm just waiting for him to be a bad guy of some sort. I sincerely hope that's not the case though.

[Lottie2303]

Okay, I'll remain mum. But I was totally surprised he introduced a new bf for the mother. I didn't expect that. I also was surprised when I realized the parents actually had no name in the first book.

[ColdFlame96]

Okay, I'll remain mum. But I was totally surprised he introduced a new bf for the mother. I didn't expect that. I also was surprised when I realized the parents actually had no name in the first book.

Oh really? I didn't even notice!  

[MoviesAreLife]

Omg I just finished chapter 6 and all I have to say is what the fuck is happening??? The dog is Sir Lampton? But how? Bobs the one who gave him to the twins, so how did he get a hold of him in the first place? So confused.

Also, Connors my favorite! He always has the best lines.

Their Grandmother cast a spell on him to make sure he picked up the right "dog" so that the twins would have a babysitter at all times. But how did she cast a spell on him from the fairy tale world? Does she have a crystal ball so she can see things happening with the Bailey family at all times?

I thought she was kind of on a power trip in this chapter. She tells them the terrifying news that their only remaining parent had been kidnapped and won't give them any details?? She mutes her own grandchildren when they protest to being put on house arrest? I get why, but still. She didn't seem sympathetic to their worry and outrage at all.

I LOOOVE how long Chris portrays the real world with the twins (nine chapters!) I know it's a fantasy book and that readers expect to be swept away into the magical world straight away, but I love how he takes his time building a foundation. I adore the touching, real moments we get with the twins...the library chat, the scene where she encourages him to write about their experiences, the talk with their mother, and so on. Just them and their simple surroundings...no action, adventure, magic or fairy tale characters to worry about. I cherish these moments, because

Spoiler:

[MoviesAreLife]

Okay, I'll remain mum. But I was totally surprised he introduced a new bf for the mother. I didn't expect that. I also was surprised when I realized the parents actually had no name in the first book.

Oh really? I didn't even notice!  

Yes they did. Charlotte and John Bailey. I also like Bob! People do move on after the death of a loved one in real life, you know. I hate how some fans of a piece of fiction expect the surviving person to remain alone and lonely forever. It's not realistic.

[MoviesAreLife]

By the way, Coldflame, you look like you can be a Bailey triplet!

[Lottie2303]

Heather, let her read the book. She'll get all the information eventually  .

I agree I really like he spends so much time in our world. It is a nice connection to reality and how a fairytale world almost feels real.

ColdFlame, I also have to agree you can be part of the Bailey clan  

[Lottie2303]

Okay, I'll remain mum. But I was totally surprised he introduced a new bf for the mother. I didn't expect that. I also was surprised when I realized the parents actually had no name in the first book.

Oh really? I didn't even notice!  

Yes they did. Charlotte and John Bailey. I also like Bob! People do move on after the death of a loved one in real life, you know. I hate how some fans of a piece of fiction expect the surviving person to remain alone and lonely forever. It's not realistic.

Yup, but they weren't named (I think so.... Maybe I am totally wrong).

Agreed about the second part. I love it when it is acknowledge love can happen, even after a devastating loss. But you never know about Bob. After all this is the LoS and not everything is how it looks.

[MoviesAreLife]

Heather, let her read the book. She'll get all the information eventually  .

I agree I really like he spends so much time in our world. It is a nice connection to reality and how a fairytale world almost feels real.

ColdFlame, I also have to agree you can be part of the Bailey clan  

Sorry! LOL! I am such a spoiler whore. I get so overly excited about Chris and his projects and never want to stop talking!  

[Lottie2303]

Sorry! LOL! I am such a spoiler whore. I get so overly excited about Chris and his projects and never want to stop talking!  

I noticed. But it made my day  

[MoviesAreLife]

Yup, but they weren't named (I think so.... Maybe I am totally wrong).

Agreed about the second part. I love it when it is acknowledge love can happen, even after a devastating loss. But you never know about Bob. After all this is the LoS and not everything is how it looks.

Charlotte was mentioned by name on page 36 of TLOS1, toward the top of the page. On page 40 of the same book, she is crying to a picture of her late husband and calls him by name also...the name John. This mention is basically in the middle of the page.   (John is a boring name, BTW)

I really like him so far! But you're right....who knows what he'll turn out to be for TLOS3??

[MoviesAreLife]

Sorry! LOL! I am such a spoiler whore. I get so overly excited about Chris and his projects and never want to stop talking!  

I noticed. But it made my day  

 

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