Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 13

[sheny]

Apparently GOBr have hinted that there will be "more Blaine (and Rachel?)" in the first episode. (I can't find the source though nor the exact wording).

Jolly, can't wait.

More Blaine? Seriously?   I'm think I'm going to cry. What did Glee fans did to Ryan Murphy to make him hate us so much? It looks like he only cares for the Blaine/Blam stans and making them happy.

[fountain]

I do dislike Darren (mainly because of his stans) but are they aware of how this over exposure is ruining Darren's career? Let's be honest, there's no way he'll be taken seriously as an actor, and with all of this exposure it'll really put a huge damper on his music career (if he can even get that far). Think about it, after Glee ends (which it will soon enough) his voice will be so overexposed most of the population (outside of his stans) won't want anything to do with his songs.

The whole TV actor moving to music thing isn't new, but the hardest part is getting the idea of the old character out of the minds of the populace and seeing Darren as an artist and not just Blaine.

I'd be surprised if anyone even buys his solo album outside of his Glee/Starkid fans.
Honestly, just look at his solo tour, there was hardly any press for it and outside his Glee fanbase no one saw it. Glee is killing the guy's career before it's even started.

[Ranwing]

another thing. a lot of klainers think that given kurt's reaction in that deleted scene for the christmas special, kurt's answer should be an automatic "yes". but back then, they were in love and a person in love might have answered "yes" without thinking, being swept in the moment of romance. this kurt has experienced something more and to go from virtually "no relationship but friendship" to "we are going to get married" is stretching every single limit of believability. at least to me.

I don't have any issues with including the box scene as canon since it was filmed, but the Kurt who would have been caught up in the idea of his much loved boyfriend proposing (and I keep in mind that this wasn't so long after they stared becoming sexually active, which would have ben a huge deal for Kurt and a sign of how committed they were) isn't the Kurt of season four, who had his hear broken because that much loved boyfriend intimate with someone else. The cheating should be, and is, a total game changer in their relationship.

Even if we want to include the cut scene of Santana commenting that Kurt still loves Blaine, I don't think it contradicts Kurt refusing Blaine's proposal or his repeated comments about them not being a couple. He hasn't hid the fact that he still have strong feelings for Blaine, which is why he's finding moving on so difficult. But just because he still loves Blaine does not mean that he thinks that they should be together, that he wants to be with Blaine or that he wants to accept a proposal. Because despite the message of the song, that love is the only thing necessary, Kurt has developed a more mature view of what it takes to sustain a relationship over the long run. Things like trust and commitment and honesty and emotional fidelity.

Blaine is doing his usual bit, substituting big grand gestures and displays for the real work that does into making a relationship work. Public song performances instead of the emotional commitment that he has refused to engage in. So even if Kurt still has feelings for Blaine at this point, he's got plenty of reasons to say no, no matter how big a display Blaine put on.

[Ranwing]

Glee is killing the guy's career before it's even started.

We were talking about how Glee has damaged Lea's career outside of Glee. That there was such a heavy handed campaign to get her the role of Fanny Brice for a planned revival that it backfired on her badly and her reputation in theater circles is pretty toxic. The same seems to be happening with Darren - right now he's getting a huge amount of exposure, but the backlash is well underway because he doesn't have the real talent to back up all this exposure. Once he no longer can be headlined as "Darren Criss from Glee" and has to stand on his own, his profile is likely to plummet dramatically.

Chris has been smart in how he's promoted himself and his outside projects in trying to maintain a wall of separation between his work on Glee and what he does outside of it. Cory did the same thing when he was promoting his outside films. He wants his works to stand alone and not be seen strictly through the prism of what he does on Glee. And in all honesty, given how he's been sidelined on Glee this past season, it's a lot easier for him to do so. But because Darren is getting so much focus right now both on Glee and outside of Glee, there is no separation. And once his time on Glee is over, the reasons for having him hosting things like the TCAs is going to be over as well.

[Georgette888]

The trouble though is that Kurt is not real nor controlled by Chris. Kurt will do whatever Ryan Murphy decides he should do. And I have no faith in Murphy.

[Ranwing]

To a point. Chris is absolutely masterful at putting his own spin on a scene or fighting when he thinks that Kurt is not behaving in a manner that he should. Chris has had such a huge part in developing Kurt's character that he knows this character better than anyone and he has a very strong viewpoint of how Kurt should respond to things. There have been complaints about the apparent disconnect between how some of Kurt's scenes were written and how Chris played them because Chris stuck to his guns (and had directors like Eric Stoltz who trusted his instincts as a performer) and we ended up with a much more complex picture of his feelings in the aftermath of the breakup than the simplistic portrayal than we get from Blaine.

I don't believe that the writers have any intention of having Kurt accept the proposal at this stage. Even they have to know that the audience (outside of the Blarren stans) will not accept it at this stage. I can't say what they have in mind for the future, but I think it's possible to be cautiously optimistic that at least for now, Kurt will not be accepting Blaine's proposal.

[Lottie2303]

Glee still has 2 seasons ahead of them, so I hope they actually have yet another "break-up". In best case scenario, Blaine organizes all this non-sense and Kurt is finally allowed to talk and respond. By having saying 'no', telling Blaine to stop trying, even better to finally have a say how hurt and betrayed he was after the cheating and then going back to NYC.

But this is Glee, where they happily give half the songs to Blaine, because for whatever reason they assume the entire audience loves him.

I also agree, this is hurting Darren Criss badly. I believe he will crash and burn very soon. They managed to piss off the entire Glee audience (with the exception of Blee fans). That is one massive and flabbergasting task.

[AnneNeville]

blaine can sing every single song in this episode as far as i'm concerned if kurt's answer to the proposal is : "are you effing kidding me blaine ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!" mr. anderson needs a massive public humiliation so he can be snapped out of his "i can do no wrong" attitude and finally start thinking with his head.

He will never think with the brain in his head. He isn't that intelligent.

Actually, something that occurs to me is that people have always pegged Blaine as probably smart, or reasonably smart, based on his private school, prep-boy image and his relationship with Kurt, who is clearly intended to be a good student. But honestly, there is no evidence that Blaine is particularly intelligent. In fact, his logic and understanding is pretty poor (from his evaluation of the GAP guy to his lack of understanding about why Finn might be hostile towards him when he transferred to McKinley).

Blaine is really like one of those really average guys I went to private school with. Since the education at the school was better, and the background privileged, average guys came across as brighter than they actually were. They showed well--thanks to coming from sophisticated families and having been taught to a somewhat more rigorous standard than public school.

But I don't think that, in the end, Blaine shows any more raw intelligence or direction than Finn did.

Perhaps Blaine should have been named "the New Finn" instead of "the New Rachel."

[AnneNeville]

I absolutely hate public proposals (which is what I think this performance is all about) because it puts the person that you're proposing to on the spot. There you are surrounded by all these people who turned out just to help the proposer pop the question. The pressure to say yes, since everyone went through so much trouble for this, is enormous. Because saying no just deflates all that positive energy.

If it were any other character being proposed to in such a manner, I'd be more worried. But this is Kurt and no one can push Kurt into doing something that he doesn't really want to do, no matter how much public pressure is put on him. Everyone else may have forgotten that the reason he and Blaine aren't together, but Kurt certainly hasn't. I'm imagining a scene with all these choirs gathered there (though why the Warblers would be willing to help Blaine when he got them disqualified from competition is beyond me), Blaine singing at the top of his straining lungs, and then we see the slow horror crossing Kurt's face when he realizes just what is going on. Blaine then ends the song on his knee, holding out the ring and Kurt just turns and walks away.

It would be like popping a balloon with a pin. I really hope that it plays out this way because the alternative is too awful to contemplate.

LOL. That would be epic, but the way the show is making non-Blaine stans angry, there will be no one watching to enjoy Kurt's epic gesture except for those who will hate him for it.

I agree about public proposals. They should only be done if both parties are already agreed that they want to marry, and if the asker KNOWS that the askee would *like* to be asked in public. My cousin in law proposed on a TV show (in the studio--it was filmed but not aired), but I think that everyone knew beforehand that he was going to do it (yes, including his now-wife). I wouldn't have wanted that, but they were in agreement already (they were already planning to get engaged and she didn't mind the public gesture).

The pressure of an audience--even if it is just your family or friends--is too much.

But then, it is my opinion (and others may disagree) that no proposal should ever be a surprise. IMHO, if a proposal is a total surprise, you haven't done enough talking about marriage and what you want from the future together. Or you've gotten into some manipulative, sexist relationship where the "woman" in the relationship is hinting and waiting and has handed all the power and agency over to the "man" who gets to choose where and when the relationship moves forward.

Ugh. Hate public proposals. I hate them. (Except in the narrow conditions outlined above). And they are so embarrassing to watch . . .

[AnneNeville]

^ i rather like your idea, and i'd even end the episode on that note. talk about a slap in the face and a bucket of ice water.

another thing. a lot of klainers think that given kurt's reaction in that deleted scene for the christmas special, kurt's answer should be an automatic "yes". but back then, they were in love and a person in love might have answered "yes" without thinking, being swept in the moment of romance. this kurt has experienced something more and to go from virtually "no relationship but friendship" to "we are going to get married" is stretching every single limit of believability. at least to me.

What scene? The infamous and oh-so-romantic box scene? Or was there another cut scene?

[AnneNeville]

Lets hope it ends in a big fat 'no' and a song for Kurt where he sings about his delusional ex. In case the episode ends with a proposal, I sincerely believe most Kurt stans will stop watching and the ratings in general will decrease even further.

If they end the episode with a proposal and a cliffhanger, they will have effectively ended two episodes in a row in the same way, since Season Four literally ended with Blaine holding that ring box behind his back. That would be . . . lame. Especially since the show is supposed to pick up exactly where the last episode left off, right? In the middle of the wedding party?

(Which brings me back to wondering how much they filmed at the end of last season that's going into this episode--because Heather was there, and if they are picking up right where they ended, they still need to get Brittany off the scene).

ETA: I think the actors really didn't know exactly how Season Four was going to end because they did film some of the beginning of Season Five.

[AnneNeville]

Apparently GOBr have hinted that there will be "more Blaine (and Rachel?)" in the first episode. (I can't find the source though nor the exact wording).

Jolly, can't wait.

More Blaine? Seriously?   I'm think I'm going to cry. What did Glee fans did to Ryan Murphy to make him hate us so much? It looks like he only cares for the Blaine/Blam stans and making them happy.

We exist and don't see the world the way he wants. Therefore he will punish us.

Do you think at some point he changed from considering Kurt to be his avatar to considering Blaine to be his avatar? Maybe Chris just had too many opinions and acting choices.  

[AnneNeville]

I do dislike Darren (mainly because of his stans) but are they aware of how this over exposure is ruining Darren's career? Let's be honest, there's no way he'll be taken seriously as an actor, and with all of this exposure it'll really put a huge damper on his music career (if he can even get that far). Think about it, after Glee ends (which it will soon enough) his voice will be so overexposed most of the population (outside of his stans) won't want anything to do with his songs.

The whole TV actor moving to music thing isn't new, but the hardest part is getting the idea of the old character out of the minds of the populace and seeing Darren as an artist and not just Blaine.

I'd be surprised if anyone even buys his solo album outside of his Glee/Starkid fans.
Honestly, just look at his solo tour, there was hardly any press for it and outside his Glee fanbase no one saw it. Glee is killing the guy's career before it's even started.

Yeah. Giving him so many songs just means that fewer of his Glee songs will make any impression on the charts. Teenage Dream is going to stay the high point, and everything after that is downhill. I mean--I started watching Glee right after Darren did his run on Broadway. The press from that is probably what pushed me over the edge to watching Glee (thank you, Darren Criss). Before that, I watched A Very Potter Musical and I was impressed with Darren for having helped write it, though he was one of the weaker actors and I didn't like his Too Cool For School Arrogant!Harry. At that point, I would have seen him in a theatre show (if the run had been long enough not to be full of crazy fans) or listened to him sing.

Now, after seeing his performance on Glee, hearing the limitations of his voice, and watching the half-baked performance he did in the third Starkids HP performance, I'd never consider seeing him in concert or listening to something he wrote. Plus, Girl Most Likely didn't make a good impression.

So, yeah, with me, overexposure actually led me from a place where Darren Criss inspired me to watch Glee ( ) to wanting to avoid watching him at all.

[AnneNeville]

Glee is killing the guy's career before it's even started.

We were talking about how Glee has damaged Lea's career outside of Glee. That there was such a heavy handed campaign to get her the role of Fanny Brice for a planned revival that it backfired on her badly and her reputation in theater circles is pretty toxic. The same seems to be happening with Darren - right now he's getting a huge amount of exposure, but the backlash is well underway because he doesn't have the real talent to back up all this exposure. Once he no longer can be headlined as "Darren Criss from Glee" and has to stand on his own, his profile is likely to plummet dramatically.

Yes. That's true. I think Lea's reputation in NYC is worse, though, and earned over many years. Darren is still new to the scene, so I doubt that the backlash is going to be nearly as bad for him. He may be annoying, but he hasn't got over 15 years of very bad reputation to overcome. His behavior at the stagedoor for H2$ may have been inconsiderate, but I don't have the impression that there is anywhere near the violent dislike that Lea has. Just . . . that he's stunt casting. As far as I heard, he did work hard as Finch. I think he'll have an easier time crossing back into theatre, if his voice can hold up to it.

Chris will probably actually have a harder time than Darren in terms of getting a Broadway show, because there are fewer roles that he can easily be slotted into.

Chris has been smart in how he's promoted himself and his outside projects in trying to maintain a wall of separation between his work on Glee and what he does outside of it. Cory did the same thing when he was promoting his outside films. He wants his works to stand alone and not be seen strictly through the prism of what he does on Glee. And in all honesty, given how he's been sidelined on Glee this past season, it's a lot easier for him to do so. But because Darren is getting so much focus right now both on Glee and outside of Glee, there is no separation. And once his time on Glee is over, the reasons for having him hosting things like the TCAs is going to be over as well.

Yes, Chris has been very smart about how he's handling things. I really would like to see what he does in a theatre role. I'd like to see how his charisma translates onto the stage.

[AnneNeville]

To a point. Chris is absolutely masterful at putting his own spin on a scene or fighting when he thinks that Kurt is not behaving in a manner that he should. Chris has had such a huge part in developing Kurt's character that he knows this character better than anyone and he has a very strong viewpoint of how Kurt should respond to things. There have been complaints about the apparent disconnect between how some of Kurt's scenes were written and how Chris played them because Chris stuck to his guns (and had directors like Eric Stoltz who trusted his instincts as a performer) and we ended up with a much more complex picture of his feelings in the aftermath of the breakup than the simplistic portrayal than we get from Blaine.

I don't believe that the writers have any intention of having Kurt accept the proposal at this stage. Even they have to know that the audience (outside of the Blarren stans) will not accept it at this stage. I can't say what they have in mind for the future, but I think it's possible to be cautiously optimistic that at least for now, Kurt will not be accepting Blaine's proposal.

I LOVE ERIC STOLTZ. I would be on any set with Eric Stoltz. I hope he directs something Kurt-centric.

No matter what happens, Chris will put his spin on it. And I hold to the opinion I stated earlier, that his recent interviews are revealing about what will happen in the first episode. He wouldn't have phrased his response to the question about Klaine the way he did (that he knew but couldn't say and that they were probably going to "tease" with it) if Kurt said yes. I think that sort of thing is an unconscious or semi-conscious "tell" (like in poker).

If Kurt says yes, there is no more story. And, frankly, the bigger Blaine's proposal, the more imperative it is that Kurt says no. If there is a huge build-up to a proposal (which, taking the last two episodes of Season Four, there has been) and then Kurt says yes, there is no more story. In a way, him saying yes will be a let-down that does nothing to set up the season. If Kurt was going to say yes, they should have a much smaller lead-up.

[AnneNeville]

From ontd_glee:

wowthatisminty

August 10 2013, 13:13:26
Someone over at GF (I know, I know) pointed out that all the choirs are from Ohio and there was a casting notice for a school board member, so it might be about budget cuts and they're staging a sit-in. Budget cuts might change the minimum size of a show choir, allowing them to continue without Sugar or Joe, or it might limit how many teams a state can send to nationals, since in the past both VA and ND have gone and both are from Ohio.

===
xchrismx

August 10 2013, 14:57:22
Yes, and of course Blaine would be the one to bring all of the groups together and lead them... Ugh, I hate to say this, but I have a feeling that if you're right about this storyline, the leader would have been Finn... : ( ... which means the writers gave his song(s) to the worst fucking character/actor.

===
slytherindream

August 10 2013, 19:17:40
Yes, I have wondered whether some of the over-abundance of Blaine was redistribution of Finn songs. I wonder if "Help!" would have been a Puck/Finn duet (I remember they were loading in Finn's dorm room before Cory passed) instead of a Blaine/Sam one.

(I am slytherindream.)

This is, perhaps, a valid non-proposal interpretation. I don't know why all those choirs would be singing "All You Need is Love," though.

Alternate explanation--but prob too complex--could be someone objecting to Unique. Since Unique was in Vocal Adrenaline, Dalton has that no-bullying policy, and the Deaf Choir would already be made up of outsiders, then them uniting under the song "All You Need is Love" would make sense.

ETA: They do somehow have to deal with the Unique/Ryder situation, and a sit-in to protect Unique could bring Ryder back into the fold.

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