Re: Kurt Hummel Snark & Bark Thread--Part 7

[Lottie2303]

In the long run, such behavior will only damage Darren. People will notice, dislike it and stop supporting him. His fanbase will grow up. It is a vicious cycle.

Chris however has such a genuine reputation, that will bring him far. I know why I like him .

[Jellyrolls]

Can I just say, I feel bad for Patty Duke having to put up with the Glee Fandom on twitter. She seems very sweet, responding to so many. One of my twitter friends shared this one:

"@themonchelearmy: @pattyduke_id Do you know how lucky you were to work with Darren?"//yes, I do

— Patty Duke (@pattyduke_id) April 28, 2013

Patty Duke is lucky to work with Darren? This woman who has been working in Hollywood for over 50 is lucky to work with Darren? This woman who has an Oscar, multiple Emmys, multiple Golden Globes, and a People's Choice Award is lucky to work with Darren?

This fandom can be beyond embarrassing sometimes.

I'm not a huge Patty Duke fan, but when I was a kid, I spent my summers watching reruns of the Patty Duke show, wishing I had an identical cousin (and I tweeted here that tonight, too).

Darren could learn a lot from this woman.

[AnneNeville]

Patty Duke is really nice. I met her once, when she was in Oklahoma on Broadway. She's a saint to be putting up with all of this on Twitter.

[Jellyrolls]

I've seen this video how Darren attracked interviewers because they didn't ask him for an interview. I basically started doing really strange stuff in tha background. Now I truly get your opinion about Darren looking and searching for attention. It was a really odd and strange decision to get an interview.

Darren was on the today show, and he told Kathie Lee and Hoda that he was at the correspondent's dinner because he was invited to go as the "prom date" of a friend who had an extra ticket. So he wasn't an official invited guest, which is probably why he had to make his little entrance to get the attention of the E! people--he probably wasn't even on their radar as being there.

They also made a big deal of his concerts selling out on Saturday when the tickets went on sale. I just did a quick check on the capacity of the venues, and they range from as small as about 500 to 3200 in NY. Most of them came in around 1100. For the sixteen shows he is doing, there were probably only about 25,000 seats available total.

[AnneNeville]

I've seen this video how Darren attracked interviewers because they didn't ask him for an interview. I basically started doing really strange stuff in tha background. Now I truly get your opinion about Darren looking and searching for attention. It was a really odd and strange decision to get an interview.

Darren was on the today show, and he told Kathie Lee and Hoda that he was at the correspondent's dinner because he was invited to go as the "prom date" of a friend who had an extra ticket. So he wasn't an official invited guest, which is probably why he had to make his little entrance to get the attention of the E! people--he probably wasn't even on their radar as being there.

Ugh.

[confusing]

I'll check you regulary and now want to let my POV

About the Darren tour, when you see on tumblr it's like a big tour, now looking that only 25000 places, they want to make a big buzz around it, wich is normal, it's his first tour alone and we can say he's very help with glee publicity too, have I heard there's too a free concert in the 16?, this tour is all to show how Darren is near his fans, and can I bet a thing he will be in Europe on June, betting for a "surprise" London show (remember when glee tour happened, he did this).
I read too they will be an album, (and the buzz continue) linking things one after the other is a way to confort fans.
For Paris festival, you must know that if Darren or Chris go in France in a not touristic place, there's 99% of chance to be not recognise because glee is not a big thing in France, and the festival is not a big deal too so don't hope for a big cover (exept if want to go on the discussion on egality right wich is burn subject in France).But do you think having both of them is hazard, I'm pretty sure too that their team in a way work together for each of them benefit of the publicity of the other too.

All to say that Darren close the door of starkids a little ago and now, he's like every "new celibrity" who want to makes his place and as his public is teenage girls and young women, he used the image of a goofy charming boy, who try to make buzz everywhere he gone. I've nothing against him, he has a character to go to people, his team decide to grow the thing to sell him more.

About RIB and FOX overexposed him now, emmy nomination comes sooner, I think they want to push him and hoping for him to a nomination

About the use of twitter, you can notice Darren become a couple month ago, why , to promote himself it's the way Hollywood go now, you must sell yourself, depend when album come but I bet you, just after the tour finished he will not post a lot , it's how it work twitter is a promote thing, look seems that actors on glee who are in holidays now seems to be less on twitter, they will become if they have a project (like Lea) or promoting glee (that is their work). For Chris it's the same too, he used more twitter to promote himself (and say it in SBL promotion,he follow his long date friend Melissa at this time , why because she's the character of sbl, and can help to promote too ), before having his own project, he disapeared of twitter for a long time. To middle of may we certainly have here & there a tweet or instargram very Chris to not forget him but not more, at this time he will appear more for the promo of the DVD (21 May) then certainly a new silent periode to Paris SBL, as we know he will be there, I could imagine him making some Paris report. Then a silent month and an heavy end of july promo .I don't know if there will be a signing tour, depend too on glee, but if s04 finished with new spoiler, I can't imaging him missing begin of the season and one more time glee can use his promo too.

All that to say I don't know them personnaly, never meet them and certainly will never meet them (and don't want), I just know that certainly Darren is more expresif guy and Chris more contain, the rest is the polish their team want to sell us and now with social media give them many way to do it, I've learn in the past that some I idolized were completly opposite than I thought, it's for that I want to keep a barreer and try to be objective, to not have deception. I enjoy what Chris do actually on external work, buying his books, for glee he plays what they want to give him, for Darren I'm not a teenage girl anymore but I can understand because when I was, I've had crush for this kind of personnage (where they are now? even when I google no actuality for them) even if I could go to one of his date tour I won't as I say it's not my things.

[arina]

I personally think that if we wanted to we could find something on everyone. I am sure people who doesn't like Chris also hold many things against him and talk about how ridiculous is something he's done or said... They both have different teams and personalities but I am sure both of them do things that are pretty calculated like probably everyone do in showbusiness.

(cannot say I didn't laugh at these interview gifs :-D )

[Lottie2303]

I am not surprised Darrens concerts sold out. Justin Bieber, One Direction and all those teen wonders all are freaking rich and I cannot see the appeal. But Darrens fanbase will grow up and then it will get dangerous. But maybe I am wrong. However I think it is the better idea for him to focus on music instead of acting. More chances for him to be actually successful.

Not everyone likes Chris and that is fine, I also agree that Chris knows the game and also uses PR. I noticed during his LOS interview tour that he repeated the same stories (i.e. Single ladies and writing the book). That is a PR move and a deliberate plan in advance to tell a funny story on his terms. As a fan, I got annoyed after a while as I want some variety. Even Chris admitted he has a great PR team. Nonetheless, I prefer Chris approach then let's say Darren or many other HW stars/singers. He is quite certainly using Twitter for his benefit but I never get the feeling he is overstepping it. There is is still a lot of personal tidbits of his life, so I am satisfied and don't feel tooled with his PR personna. So, for me I am happy and I am also glad that Chris does not have to act like a mad men just to get noticed and an interview.

[AnneNeville]

I am not surprised Darrens concerts sold out. Justin Bieber, One Direction and all those teen wonders all are freaking rich and I cannot see the appeal. But Darrens fanbase will grow up and then it will get dangerous. But maybe I am wrong. However I think it is the better idea for him to focus on music instead of acting. More chances for him to be actually successful.

Not everyone likes Chris and that is fine, I also agree that Chris knows the game and also uses PR. I noticed during his LOS interview tour that he repeated the same stories (i.e. Single ladies and writing the book). That is a PR move and a deliberate plan in advance to tell a funny story on his terms. As a fan, I got annoyed after a while as I want some variety. Even Chris admitted he has a great PR team. Nonetheless, I prefer Chris approach then let's say Darren or many other HW stars/singers. He is quite certainly using Twitter for his benefit but I never get the feeling he is overstepping it. There is is still a lot of personal tidbits of his life, so I am satisfied and don't feel tooled with his PR personna. So, for me I am happy and I am also glad that Chris does not have to act like a mad men just to get noticed and an interview.

Yeah, I've noticed that is true. And Chris has had some bad interview moments when he's said things (sarcastic?) which come across badly.

I think the thing that bugs me the most is his books. I read Land of Stories, and skimmed Struck by Lightning, and they are badly written. They'd never get published if he weren't famous. I can't figure out whether he's publishing them fast NOW, before Glee ends and his star fades, in order to have a career, or whether he's being manipulated by a team that wants to make money off him even if it's against his own interest.

No competent literary agent would have let Land of Stories pass if it weren't for Chris's fame. And no competent editor should have allowed such a freshman effort to go to press. Someday, Chris will look at those books and be embarrassed. I think he has ability and imagination, but NEEDED someone to tell him the truth--that such an early draft needed heavy revision to merit publication.

Now I roll my eyes whenever I see book stuff show up on his twitter-feed. But he isn't excessive, at least.

I just hope he isn't being used.

[ColferInspired]

I am not surprised Darrens concerts sold out. Justin Bieber, One Direction and all those teen wonders all are freaking rich and I cannot see the appeal. But Darrens fanbase will grow up and then it will get dangerous. But maybe I am wrong. However I think it is the better idea for him to focus on music instead of acting. More chances for him to be actually successful.

Not everyone likes Chris and that is fine, I also agree that Chris knows the game and also uses PR. I noticed during his LOS interview tour that he repeated the same stories (i.e. Single ladies and writing the book). That is a PR move and a deliberate plan in advance to tell a funny story on his terms. As a fan, I got annoyed after a while as I want some variety. Even Chris admitted he has a great PR team. Nonetheless, I prefer Chris approach then let's say Darren or many other HW stars/singers. He is quite certainly using Twitter for his benefit but I never get the feeling he is overstepping it. There is is still a lot of personal tidbits of his life, so I am satisfied and don't feel tooled with his PR personna. So, for me I am happy and I am also glad that Chris does not have to act like a mad men just to get noticed and an interview.

Yeah, I've noticed that is true. And Chris has had some bad interview moments when he's said things (sarcastic?) which come across badly.

I think the thing that bugs me the most is his books. I read Land of Stories, and skimmed Struck by Lightning, and they are badly written. They'd never get published if he weren't famous. I can't figure out whether he's publishing them fast NOW, before Glee ends and his star fades, in order to have a career, or whether he's being manipulated by a team that wants to make money off him even if it's against his own interest.

No competent literary agent would have let Land of Stories pass if it weren't for Chris's fame. And no competent editor should have allowed such a freshman effort to go to press. Someday, Chris will look at those books and be embarrassed. I think he has ability and imagination, but NEEDED someone to tell him the truth--that such an early draft needed heavy revision to merit publication.

Now I roll my eyes whenever I see book stuff show up on his twitter-feed. But he isn't excessive, at least.

I just hope he isn't being used.

I loved both books.

John Green an accomplished author himself loved TLOS. I agree there should have been more editing.

Writing means so much to Chris. It one of his loves. He has the talent to tell a story.

Even if I never heard of Chris I would have still enjoyed these books. TLOS made me remember my childhood when I had a book of fairytales myself. TLOS was a kids book, but still other adults bought it.

SBL: The Carson Phillips Journal, I actually could see and feel everything he has written. This book has impacted peoples lives, just like the film, I have seen this from blogs. This has inspired others to follow their dreams.

These books weren't meant to be masterpieces or works of literature. It was the storytelling that made me fall in love with them.

The publishing company wanted him to do an autobiography but he wanted to see if they would like TLOS instead.

All writers get better as they write.

Many that have not even heard of Chris Colfer as they have never watched Glee have said they have read TLOS and loved it. Granted they say that it could have had some more editing done to it, but they had fallen in love with different characters.

Chris is a talented writer, but he needs some tweaking done and some improvements.

TLOS means so much to him as does SBL.

And Chris was tweeted questions from fans about his books, it was not necessarily PR. He is on twitter alot. Just look at his tweets from 2009 and now. He likes being in touch with his fans and tries to answer as many tweets as possible.

He used to do Q & A, but he doesn't do that much anymore.

[AnneNeville]

I am not surprised Darrens concerts sold out. Justin Bieber, One Direction and all those teen wonders all are freaking rich and I cannot see the appeal. But Darrens fanbase will grow up and then it will get dangerous. But maybe I am wrong. However I think it is the better idea for him to focus on music instead of acting. More chances for him to be actually successful.

Not everyone likes Chris and that is fine, I also agree that Chris knows the game and also uses PR. I noticed during his LOS interview tour that he repeated the same stories (i.e. Single ladies and writing the book). That is a PR move and a deliberate plan in advance to tell a funny story on his terms. As a fan, I got annoyed after a while as I want some variety. Even Chris admitted he has a great PR team. Nonetheless, I prefer Chris approach then let's say Darren or many other HW stars/singers. He is quite certainly using Twitter for his benefit but I never get the feeling he is overstepping it. There is is still a lot of personal tidbits of his life, so I am satisfied and don't feel tooled with his PR personna. So, for me I am happy and I am also glad that Chris does not have to act like a mad men just to get noticed and an interview.

Yeah, I've noticed that is true. And Chris has had some bad interview moments when he's said things (sarcastic?) which come across badly.

I think the thing that bugs me the most is his books. I read Land of Stories, and skimmed Struck by Lightning, and they are badly written. They'd never get published if he weren't famous. I can't figure out whether he's publishing them fast NOW, before Glee ends and his star fades, in order to have a career, or whether he's being manipulated by a team that wants to make money off him even if it's against his own interest.

No competent literary agent would have let Land of Stories pass if it weren't for Chris's fame. And no competent editor should have allowed such a freshman effort to go to press. Someday, Chris will look at those books and be embarrassed. I think he has ability and imagination, but NEEDED someone to tell him the truth--that such an early draft needed heavy revision to merit publication.

Now I roll my eyes whenever I see book stuff show up on his twitter-feed. But he isn't excessive, at least.

I just hope he isn't being used.

I loved both books.

John Green an accomplished author himself loved TLOS. I agree there should have been more editing.

Writing means so much to Chris. It one of his loves. He has the talent to tell a story.

Even if I never heard of Chris I would have still enjoyed these books. TLOS made me remember my childhood when I had a book of fairytales myself. TLOS was a kids book, but still other adults bought it.

SBL: The Carson Phillips Journal, I actually could see and feel everything he has written. This book has impacted peoples lives, just like the film, I have seen this from blogs. This has inspired others to follow their dreams.

These books weren't meant to be masterpieces or works of literature. It was the storytelling that made me fall in love with them.

The publishing company wanted him to do an autobiography but he wanted to see if they would like TLOS instead.

All writers get better as they write.

Many that have not even heard of Chris Colfer as they have never watched Glee have said they have read TLOS and loved it. Granted they say that it could have had some more editing done to it, but they had fallen in love with different characters.

Chris is a talented writer, but he needs some tweaking done and some improvements.

TLOS means so much to him as does SBL.

I'm glad you enjoyed the books. I do not wish to denigrate Chris's ideas or basic talent.

I've worked as an editor (granted, for academic journals), though, and Chris's prose was not ready to be published yet. We enjoy fanfiction--I write fanfiction--but I know it's not ready to be converted into a novel and published.

I think Chris has talent as a writer, but he obviously wrote TLOS very fast (even if he had it outlined from age ten!). If he had any editor worth his or her salt, that book would never have made it to press with a first line like:

"The dungeon was a miserable place."

I could point out other examples in just the first few chapters. That's bad writing, and the fact that the book is for children does not excuse it.

My point is that I worry that he's being used by others to make a quick buck. It's good he's got all these side projects, and I will be pleased for every one that does well. But a book that is a hit for a few months because Chris is famous is not going to pay off long term. It's just going to be evidence that he chose to or was pushed to publish an unpolished manuscript.



Not everyone is going to care that the writing is sloppy in many places, but I do care when I see that a book has gone to press that wouldn't have made it past an intern reading through a slush pile at an literary agency. Fans are going to love it, but serious editors and writers are going to see $$$ and a cash grab, and it will be harder for him to be taken seriously when his skills improve (if they improve--which they won't if is surrounded by people who refuse to critique him).

Chris has talent, and I believe 100% that he wrote TLOS and that there was no ghostwriter. But that doesn't mean that that book should have gone to press as it is. Writing talent needs to be honed, just as a singing voice needs to be trained. Chris has not had the benefit of college, and he's probably not being supported by people who will nurture his writing abilities in a constructive fashion.

Natural talent only takes you so far. The rest is practice, rewriting, and constructive critique. It is easy to slide by when you are a naturally good writer. It is hard to find anyone who will take you to task for a bit of messiness, when you are already better than most.

Heck, it took me until I entered a PhD program before I had ANYONE give me serious feedback on how I could make my writing stronger.

I would like better for Chris.

[MoviesAreLife]

I enjoyed both TLOS and the SBL book, although I'll admit, TLOS had moments in there that made me cringe (the worst for me was "he said, she said...said,said,said,said!"). I connected more to the SBL book, and that might be because of the language in it, the witty lines...it all just appealed to me more and seemed more adult. Chris still has some very good lines, some very good concepts in both books.

Watching the SBL movie, Chris may very well be more of a screenwriter than a novelist. And that's okay. Both take talent in writing, both take a passionate, dedicated artist, and both can create magic that audiences/readers will remember forever. Writing is writing, no matter what the medium. Chris will still get to do what he loves as a screenwriter.

[AnneNeville]

I enjoyed both TLOS and the SBL book, although I'll admit, TLOS had moments in there that made me cringe (the worst for me was "he said, she said...said,said,said,said!"). I connected more to the SBL book, and that might be because of the language in it, the witty lines...it all just appealed to me more and seemed more adult. Chris still has some very good lines, some very good concepts in both books.

Watching the SBL movie, Chris may very well be more of a screenwriter than a novelist. And that's okay. Both take talent in writing, both take a passionate, dedicated artist, and both can create magic that audiences/readers will remember forever. Writing is writing, no matter what the medium. Chris will still get to do what he loves as a screenwriter.

Screenwriting might be the best venue for him right now, because his strength seemed (in TLOS) to be in dialogue, and his weakness in narrative. Screenwriting also has the plus of having an actor interpret the lines, which makes a big difference. You're not seeing the words on the page.

If screenwriting works for him, I'd like to see him try his hand at a play.

I hope he keeps writing novels, too. I just also hope that he gets a mentor who helps him grow as a writer. The danger of fame is being surrounded by yes-men and sycophants.

[MoviesAreLife]

I enjoyed both TLOS and the SBL book, although I'll admit, TLOS had moments in there that made me cringe (the worst for me was "he said, she said...said,said,said,said!"). I connected more to the SBL book, and that might be because of the language in it, the witty lines...it all just appealed to me more and seemed more adult. Chris still has some very good lines, some very good concepts in both books.

Watching the SBL movie, Chris may very well be more of a screenwriter than a novelist. And that's okay. Both take talent in writing, both take a passionate, dedicated artist, and both can create magic that audiences/readers will remember forever. Writing is writing, no matter what the medium. Chris will still get to do what he loves as a screenwriter.

Screenwriting might be the best venue for him right now, because his strength seemed (in TLOS) to be in dialogue, and his weakness in narrative. Screenwriting also has the plus of having an actor interpret the lines, which makes a big difference. You're not seeing the words on the page.

If screenwriting works for him, I'd like to see him try his hand at a play.

I hope he keeps writing novels, too. I just also hope that he gets a mentor who helps him grow as a writer. The danger of fame is being surrounded by yes-men and sycophants.

A play! That would be so cool! I can't wait to see it all. Movies (of all genres), plays, even more books. But his strength is screenwriting, I think.

[tanita_mors]

i agree about chris's writing style. there is a lot of potential there and he definitely has a gift for plot development and story arcing, but his description, flow and style need a lot of work. LOS1 was definitely published too fast (editing was sloppy and god knows he needed to write a few more drafts because it came out rather amateurish), but if these are his first in a long line of books, i can excuse it for youthful zest and a wish to capitalize on his fame while it's still hot. i actually though that SBL was much more fluid and definitely better, but he knew the character and it's internal voice for a very long time so it's no wonder.

but those drawbacks conform one thing, he wrote them 100 %. had those books been much better written, i would have known that he used a ghost writer. because, i remember reading Eragon a long time ago, also written by a teenager at the time (christopher paolini i think his name was) and you could tell it as well.

chris will get better and if continues to publish and give himself more time to develop theses books, they will be fantastic. hell, even the first harry potter and the last are incomparable in a way and jk rowling took 10 years to create the first book if i'm not mistaken.

[MoviesAreLife]

I heard TLOS is a three book deal. I wonder how different the 3rd book will be from the 1st?

[AnneNeville]

I heard TLOS is a three book deal. I wonder how different the 3rd book will be from the 1st?

I don't know, but he wrote the second one mighty fast, considering there was also the novelization/diary version of Struck by Lightning in there . . .

[Glorfindel]

Erin and Ivana:

I think Chris has talent as a writer, but he obviously wrote TLOS very fast (even if he had it outlined from age ten!). If he had any editor worth his or her salt, that book would never have made it to press with a first line like:

"The dungeon was a miserable place."

I could point out other examples in just the first few chapters. That's bad writing, and the fact that the book is for children does not excuse it.

(---)

Not everyone is going to care that the writing is sloppy in many places, but I do care when I see that a book has gone to press that wouldn't have made it past an intern reading through a slush pile at an literary agency. Fans are going to love it, but serious editors and writers are going to see $$$ and a cash grab, and it will be harder for him to be taken seriously when his skills improve (if they improve--which they won't if is surrounded by people who refuse to critique him).

Chris has talent, and I believe 100% that he wrote TLOS and that there was no ghostwriter. But that doesn't mean that that book should have gone to press as it is. Writing talent needs to be honed, just as a singing voice needs to be trained. Chris has not had the benefit of college, and he's probably not being supported by people who will nurture his writing abilities in a constructive fashion.

Natural talent only takes you so far. The rest is practice, rewriting, and constructive critique. It is easy to slide by when you are a naturally good writer. It is hard to find anyone who will take you to task for a bit of messiness, when you are already better than most.

Chris didn't use a ghostwriter and didn't want too much editing because he wanted to make clear that TLoS was 100% his book. Now maybe that lessens the quality of the writing itself of the book, but it takes nothing away from the storytelling, on contrary: maybe it even adds to the storytelling, because it lives and breaths Chris. His typical and pure style adds so much, imo. You can almost hear him tell the story (not just in the audiobook, lol).

Personally I don't really mind the writing style or technical flaws: maybe because I'm not an english speaking person by nature, but I just don't see many style errors or they don't bother me. For instance: I see nothing wrong in the sentence you quote above about the dungeons. It's simple, but accurate. The only thing that bothered me in TLoS was the multiple "He said", but I only noticed this after it was pointed out to me on one of the forums.
Maybe TLoS is not Tolkien quality, but it's a children's book afteral and the story is charming (and a lot of people find Tolkien "too dry" and "boring", so.....). Although there is certainly room for improvement, Chris gets his readers engaged/involved, and he telld the story in his own charming style.

You also mention singing: that skills should be honed first. And although as an artist myself in general I agree here, I think that being able to express yourself through an art form and do it in a way that makes people understand the message you're conveying and lets them love your product, even without trained skills, emotive power trumps those skills.
When Chris sand 'Defying Gravity', 'A House is Not a Home' and even 'Rose's Turn', he wasn't properly trained yet as a singer, but still those songs resonated, and many still find 'Rose's Turn' his best song.
And then Chris' singing only got better and better technically, because of training and experience. But his emotive powers were just as strong back then as they still are now.
I think the same will be true for his books. J.K Rowling also improved over the years with her Harry Potter books.
Just like many 'normal' listeners can't really hear the lack of skills in singing (and are not even interested in it) after a certain basic level is met with, while only better trained singers and professionals can point out the flaws, it's the same with writing skills. Most people won't notice or don't care, as long as they enjoy what they are reading.

My point is that I worry that he's being used by others to make a quick buck. It's good he's got all these side projects, and I will be pleased for every one that does well. But a book that is a hit for a few months because Chris is famous is not going to pay off long term. It's just going to be evidence that he chose to or was pushed to publish an unpolished manuscript.

As said above: Chris wanted an unpolished script. It was a gamble, and hey: maybe Chris will look back on it later and facepalm (I certainly do when I reread my earliest reviews, lol), but it was pure Chris, and the way I estimate him that's his primary goal: to be pure and himself, with all his faults, take it or leave it.

It was Chris himself who wanted to get TLoS published, not his agents. He was offered an easy buck, by making a biography, probably with the 'help' of a ghostwriter, but he refused and chose to risk getting ridiculed for his 'celebrity' writing aspirations instead. And sure, if he hadn't been famous then TLoS might not even have gotten a first glance at an editor/publisher, but Chris had to send in a few chapters for approval before he got the deal. And he got a 2-3? books deal right away! If it was just for the grabs of money while he was famous, they would not have offered him 2-3 books, when the first book could have flopped/failed and his tv fame could have wained by the time the 3rd book would come out.

What's also important is to know that Chris already sold a Disney pilot screenscript before he was even well known in the industry. And he got SBL (the movie) made despite his fame as a young teen idol. Brian (the director) thought a script from a snotty young Glee star could not be good and he almost turned it down before reading.
The big studios wanted to change SBL beyond recognition, and Chris and his team turned the big bucks from them down in favor of a risky, low budget indie film (which then brought in at least 4 times the money the production cost). So I don't think that if Chris' managers were out to use Chris for big bucks here. Plus filming SBL the exact way Chris wrote and wanted it made the movie the success it is now, with many people being moved by it, even those who are not primarily Chris fans.

Now, SBL: The Carson Phillips Journal was a suggestion from Chris' team, not himself. They wanted him to write that book so it would come out around the same time as the movie. That can be considered as a money grab/quick buck. But then Chris changed the initial idea for the book (basically a rewrite of the script), and insisted on writing it in the style of a journal. That was a gamble, and if his team really was using Chris they would have advised him/persuaded him against it, but they didn't.

Long story short: I really don't think Chris is being used, or even would allow himself to be used, by the people who manage him. The fact that his new big fancy agency is working with his old PR team indicates that they are appreciated a lot, by both Chris and the bizz.

[MoviesAreLife]

^ Agreed that the flaws do add a sense of "purity" to the books. A diamond in the rough, so to speak. I cannot wait until he finally writes his autobiography.

[Lottie2303]

All the discussion is so interesting, I desperately want add my two cents but I am too tired to even manage a proper sentence with a bit of sense. Lets try...Carry on please, I'll read and follow all posts (--> ETA : )

I don't believe Chris is selling our nor is he getting used. Lets go back a few years: no one expected Chris to write and release a children book. It is so uncommon that no one can convince me someone 'used' Chris to do it. It must have been his own idea and the official version of him declining a biography and asking for LoS sounds very true. Especially because he declined very easy money and little effort. LoS instead meant him rarely sleeping, taking a very large risk and endangering he may be the laughing stock of young HW in case he fails. Why should I doubt the official version?

Did the book have flaws? Yes. I started unconsciously changing 'said' to other adjectives, because it bothered the hell out of me. I really disagree with the ending and already questioned it on this board. I also agree you can see it was his first book. But the first Harry Potter wasn't the same quality as the last Harry Potter (of course HP is still a different far superior animal but you get my gist). Also I partly blame the editor who didn't seem to bother to actually lecture and help Chris. You cannot tell me Chris wouldn't have appreciated criticism. But I am also convinced he already assessed his weaknesses, changed them and he will only get better. He has so much fantasy and LoS is a really unique idea, so I believe there is still a lot of potential for him to explore.

SBL is a journal written by a 16 year old boy and it reads like it. That was however the purpose and it fits the tone of the book. I really liked it, as he totally got my dark twisted humor, so I actually wouldn't change a lot. It gave more depth about Carson and fulfilled its trick to be a nice marketing idea for the movie. At the end it was a marketing tool and I find that idea creative and unique as well. So I approve with SBL and really can't think of anything from the top of my head what I wanted to change.

Mind you, the flaws being intentional and 'diamond in the rough' I do not agree with this and that might be more our Chris bias speaking? All mistakes he noticed in the early drafts, I am really sure he changed them. He kept the story real and was protective of them, but writing mistakes itself are still mistakes. No explanation can change that. However I accept them as it is still a children book, he is really creative (creativity thumps everything!) and I give him time to develop. I also don't blame him for taking the chance of being famous and getting a publishing deal easier. I'd do the same in a heartbeat! I also like that Chris is taking a very unique route. So, all the power to Chris, I hope he is clever enough to accept and change his mistakes (he sure is) and I only believe he will develop. I think he is on a good way.

[Glorfindel]

Mind you, the flaws being intentional and 'diamond in the rough' I do not agree with this and that might be more our Chris bias speaking? All mistakes he noticed in the early drafts, I am really sure he changed them. He kept the story real and was protective of them, but writing mistakes itself are still mistakes. No explanation can change that. However I accept them as it is still a children book, he is really creative (creativity thumps everything!) and I give him time to develop. I also don't blame him for taking the chance of being famous and getting a publishing deal easier. I'd do the same in a heartbeat! I also like that Chris is taking a very unique route. So, all the power to Chris, I hope he is clever enough to accept and change his mistakes (he sure is) and I only believe he will develop. I think he is on a good way.

But noone suggested that the flaws that remained were intentional?

The 'diamond in the rough' is a natural result of Chris still having things to learn, not a trick they manufactured deliberately.

[Lottie2303]

]But noone suggested that the flaws that remained were intentional?

The 'diamond in the rough' is a natural result of Chris still having things to learn, not a trick they manufactured deliberately.

Sorry, that is how I remembered it and I didn't double check. I really am actually tired . Then yes, I agree with your assessment. Overall the idea of a ghost writer is really odd. The book is so obviously Chris, I cannot even get how haters would try to find legit points of Chris committing such an act .

[MoviesAreLife]

Yeah, by 'diamond in the rough', I just meant that Chris does have natural talent, but he has a long way to go in order to polish his writing skills.

[AnneNeville]

I don't believe Chris is selling our nor is he getting used. Lets go back a few years: no one expected Chris to write and release a children book. It is so uncommon that no one can convince me someone 'used' Chris to do it. It must have been his own idea and the official version of him declining a biography and asking for LoS sounds very true. Especially because he declined very easy money and little effort. LoS instead meant him rarely sleeping, taking a very large risk and endangering he may be the laughing stock of young HW in case he fails. Why should I doubt the official version?

I don't doubt the official story, either, and there was a part of me that was relieved to see that the book was obviously written by Chris and not a ghost writer. But . . .

What I was trying to communicate was that I fear that he (in all earnestness) wanted to write and did write the book he wanted to write, but then when the editors should have said "stop, wait, we need to do a few more drafts before this is ready for publication" no one stepped up.

I don't know why. That's an editor's job. That's where I worried that people might be using him for a quick buck: push the book forward fast, before it's properly edited, and make the money now. Or, conversely, for some reason people are afraid to point out his weaknesses to him (because people who are succeeding get surrounded by yes-men who wouldn't want to risk their job by angering their boss).

I hope that clarifies my meaning.

Did the book have flaws? Yes. I started unconsciously changing 'said' to other adjectives, because it bothered the hell out of me. I really disagree with the ending and already questioned it on this board. I also agree you can see it was his first book. But the first Harry Potter wasn't the same quality as the last Harry Potter (of course HP is still a different far superior animal but you get my gist). Also I partly blame the editor who didn't seem to bother to actually lecture and help Chris. You cannot tell me Chris wouldn't have appreciated criticism. But I am also convinced he already assessed his weaknesses, changed them and he will only get better. He has so much fantasy and LoS is a really unique idea, so I believe there is still a lot of potential for him to explore.

Yes, I blame the editor, too. And I suspect and hope that--delivered properly--constructive criticism would have really improved the book (and there still could have been a sweet, diamond-in-the-rough quality to it).

As for Chris assessing his own weaknesses, that is really hard to do without guidance, especially if you are working at such a fast rate. When you are writing something, you're often advised to put the first draft out of sight for months before you read it again. Otherwise, you won't see what needs to be fixed.

Mind you, the flaws being intentional and 'diamond in the rough' I do not agree with this and that might be more our Chris bias speaking? All mistakes he noticed in the early drafts, I am really sure he changed them. He kept the story real and was protective of them, but writing mistakes itself are still mistakes. No explanation can change that.

Agreed.

However I accept them as it is still a children book, he is really creative (creativity thumps everything!) and I give him time to develop.

I respectfully reject the idea that a children's book can get away with being less-well-written or poorly edited. TLOS was massive in length--really long for the target-age--and cutting it down and polishing it would make it more effective, not less. I think kid's books need to be even more succinct than books for adults.

As for your second point, I agree. He is really creative and I look forward to seeing what else he writes.

I also don't blame him for taking the chance of being famous and getting a publishing deal easier. I'd do the same in a heartbeat! I also like that Chris is taking a very unique route. So, all the power to Chris, I hope he is clever enough to accept and change his mistakes (he sure is) and I only believe he will develop. I think he is on a good way.

I admire Chris, too. And he's very brave to take such big risks--including exposing himself to criticism. I just hope that he gets the constructive criticism he needs so that he can grow--because you can't do everything alone.

I don't resent that he got a book deal on a manuscript that would have been rejected but for his fame, but I do think it is poor form that the literary agents/publishers didn't take the time to work with Chris to get his very good idea up to the level of something that would have made it out of the slush pile.

I hope that I've made myself clear . . . I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm trying to walk a fine line between admiration of the man and concern/critique of a rushed product. And TLOS2 is coming out really fast as well, so I am not anticipating much improvement in terms of editing/style. We shall see, right?

[MoviesAreLife]

^ I'm holding out hope that TLOS2 will be much better than the first! And if he drops the "said" quirk, I'll jump for joy!

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