General Glee Discussion Thread--Part 5

[Lottie2303]

^So, Cannonball is a very good indicator how the rest of the album looks like and it seems to be auto-tuned pop music which was never her strongest point. It is a shame, because:

A) she has an amazing voice and really doesn't need it;

B) Glee has proven many times her pop songs are not among the favorites and I actually dread the rock-song Lea will sing with Adam. "Creep" has proven to me that Lea doesn't have, and more importantly doesn't need this style of music. She has so much talent specifically for BW songs;

and

C) producing and releasing an album is expensive. In case it fails or is critically not acclaimed, it could very likely lead to Lea not getting the chance for a second album to prove herself.

I believe she will actually be successful as she is using the very safe route of female pop for the radio without a lot of substance. But I think she made the wrong choice and for the long-run her music won’t be recognized nor acknowledged as one of the great. She won’t be an Adele who  sells purely because of her voice. Sadly, with Lea’s voice, she could have gone and managed the very same route. But I get the impression Lea very badly wants the commercial music and movie career. For the short-terms, YES, but for a long lasting career I think she made some major mistakes. Especially because it is Hollywood/the music industry and they can be very unforgiving. Everything has an expiration especially because she is 27. The number of female actresses and singers over 30 is sadly very low and therefore females need to differentiate themselves. With female-commercial-pop she next young girl will come and will sell and will replace the current pop-singers.

[Ranwing]

It's a gamble either way I think, as imo Lea does not have the general appeal/appearance nor (musical) background, nor even the fanbase of a pop star, so going for the current pop 40 style might not sustain her a long term career. But OTOH doing a more Broadway or classic pop style album (a la Streisand) might have pleased her fanbase more and highlighted her background, plus make her more desirable for future Broadway productions, but it would not have put her up front in the pop charts, and that seems to be what Lea is going for in her career (pop music and movies instead of musical theatre).

I always got the impression that Lea wanted a long-term mainstream career and that seems to bear out in the choices she's made with her outside projects. Her first movie was something with a lot of good talent that had it been more commercially successful might have launched her film career. Unfortunately for Lea it did rather poorly and she really didn't gain any real focus for her acting. It didn't help that her character was too similar to the one she plays on Glee in some ways and it didn't really get her to stretch her acting chops (which are considerable). Now we have an album that again looks designed to appeal to a general audience and it can either do very well or it can be ignored.

There are times when being a niche performer works out better in the long-run. You are doing something that few other people are doing and can get a lot of critical notice for your work. The sad reality is that the number of female pop singers with very long mainstream careers are very few in number. For every Madonna, Britany, Pink and Christine, you've got hundreds of others that put out an album or two and are then gone. And then you have someone like Streisand who has been around for decades and can pretty much do what she wants and still sell out every venue that she decides to play.

[Buenos]

Lea came out in an ensemble movie with about a dozen stars because it fit her schedule. 
My own guess is that it wasn't as if Lea had the logistic/options to do dozens of better movie roles and picked  this one ; ,IMO  she was limited on options by  her Glee schedule.  It anything it probably was the best role she got under the circumstances and while the  movie was panned by critics, it was a box office success.

Dianna Agron leaving Glee and having genuine flexibility , not a coincidence that now she seem to be getting traction with getting more offers/roles.

I know Lea and Diana are apples and oranges, but just pointing out that most of the Glee actors can't cherry pick their roles.  Dianna, Cory, Jayma and Jane have all bee hit and miss in their movies during their time on Glee.

Heck, it seems Naya finished a low budget horror movie this summer, we sometimes forget that actors want to act and get some extra $$$$.

As to wanting "mainstream" success, about 99.99 percent of actors want that, even "artistic" one.  

[Lottie2303]

Personally, I think Lea has the highest chances to be commercially successful once Glee ends. Naya currently seems to try very hard to establish herself beyond Glee as well, but her approach is one I personally dislike. It is a shame as I think Naya is incredibly talented and should continue working easily. I predict she could be on a route for reality TV one day... We can always be surprised and one of the background actors suddenly has the big break (Melissa comes to mind who has booked quite a few gigs as an aspiring actress). Dianna was smart and got out of Glee she minutes she had the opportunity. With her stunning looks, she really seems to be on the right track.

Chris I can see being successful while being in a niche, as Wendy so nicely pointed out. I can see him having consistent work (let it be as writer, producer, actor, BW etc.) but maybe not in the main limelight once Glee ends. I also don't believe he will sign up for another TV show anytime soon (even though I am crossing my fingers for an HBO collaboration one day). Overall, I believe Chris still has a long career ahead, but not in the commercial sense and he will never be cast as the romantic leading man. Considering those are the roles I dislike and I always prefer the meatier supporting characters, I am more then happy to follow Chris on this path.

[Ranwing]

The number of female actresses and singers over 30 is sadly very low and therefore females need to differentiate themselves. With female-commercial-pop she next young girl will come and will sell and will replace the current pop-singers.

Twenty seven in the real world is still very young and normally would leave plenty of room for professional growth. In the world of pop music, that's positively middle aged. Unlike men, who can have long-term careers and older ages, it's harder for women. Look at popular singers from the anywhere from the 60s to the 90s who are still around today and the overwhelming majority are men. The shelf-life for a female pop performer is very, very brief and the ones who are still producing music and selling out venues five and then years later are the exceptions and not the rule.

[glimmerle]

I like it. Yes, it's pretty commercial and could do with a little less layering/soundeffects, as her voice doesn't need them, but it's still a good pop-song imho. I also expect the remaining album to be a bit more diverse, so she'll have the opportunity to play more to her strengths.

I'm not surprised she chose what seems to be the most mainsteam-accessible song as her first single, since she needs to reach the biggest possible audience with it. Her old fans from Broadway and Glee will listen to her full album anyway, and then buy it because of other songs on it.

If her mainstream-career tanks she still has the chops to go for a niche. I can't blame her for at least trying to go for a bigger audience, if she wants to.

[ColferInspired]

[Glorfindel]

^That's good, for now.
Let's see if it will be able to hold a high position or if it will fall back as quickly has it has risen in the ranks.

Lea taking a shot at commercial pop is understandable, but as pointed out: she'll get only one shot and if it's not profitable enough she might not be able to get another chance at making an album in another style, like Broadway.


I think Lea could have a career like Celine Dion, not so much an Adele, although I get the comparison between her and Lea of making it with your own unique voice instead of conforming to the commercial generic stuff.
Well, we'll see. At least she's off with a good start. 

[Ranwing]

We need to keep in mind that Naya's single also shot up relatively quickly, and then plummetted after people started listening to it and saw it for what it was. Debuting at #10 is great, but these are liking her established Glee fans putting in their orders and for her album to be successful, it's got to reach a broader audience.

I'm not doing this to crap all over Lea. I might not be a huge fan of hers, but I recognize and respect talent even if they don't appeal to me. I think that Lea is wasting her talent here. Is it a decent pop number? Sure, but it's still just a pop number and pretty indistinguishable from every other song you hear on the radio nowadays. You can take prime rib and package it as a tv dinner and it just becomes a tv dinner.

After reading commings on multiple boards, I see a lot of dissapointment from the hard core Lea stans. "Generic" is a term I see used a lot to describe this song, and a general consensus that they hope this single isn't reflective of the whole album. There is nothing about this song that sets Lea apart as a performer and I can't see Lea resorting to antics like Miley Cyrus twerking her ass off to get attention - at least I seriously hope that Lea doesn't resort to those kind of cheap stunts. The one thing that Lea had to really set herself apart from every other pop singer was her voice and that seems to have been sacrificed in order to get a radio-friendly sound that runs a big risk of getting lost in the mix

[Ranwing]

Lea came out in an ensemble movie with about a dozen stars because it fit her schedule. 
My own guess is that it wasn't as if Lea had the logistic/options to do dozens of better movie roles and picked  this one ; ,IMO  she was limited on options by  her Glee schedule.  It anything it probably was the best role she got under the circumstances and while the  movie was panned by critics, it was a box office success.

The film made $154 million worldwide and only around 54 million in the US. It probably made back it's production costs, but was still considered to be a dissapointment.

I recognize that Lea (like Chris) is severely limited on how much time she can devote to an outside project given her comittment to Glee, and that she certainly couldn't do a film that required a months long shooting schedule. My criticism is that she selected a part that did nothing to show her as more of a performer than we already knew she was on Glee and that the shot at getting mainstream film roles was likely hurt by doing this film. And going by a lot of the reviews that I read, she didn't distinguish herself with her performance to warrent a lot of mentions. She was just... there. And Lea doesn't have the film resume that a Robert DeNiro has where he if does a serious clunker it can just be handwaved away. This was her big film debut and it pretty well flopped. You never want your first big film to end up on multiple worst films of the year lists or to be nominated for numerous Razzie awards (including worst ensemble), which is what happened here.

She's not the only one who has this problem - Darren's film was such a stinker that they couldn't pull it from screens fast enough. It's very hard to make the jump from tv to film actor successfully and I would much rather have seen Lea's attempt fail by overreaching and trying to really stretch herself as a performer than just falling into a role that sat neatly in her comfort zone.

Lea is in same boat that Chris is in to a large degree - they don't have a long histroy of film or tv work so Glee was their big introduction to a mainstream audience. The focus they get for their own projects initially will be a result of being on Glee and they'll have an initial benefit (like Lea's album debuting at #10 on ITunes or Chris's book #1 on the NYT bestseller's list). After that, though, to sustain success the work has to be able to hold up and reach a bigger audience. Chris's first book had some serious flaws (and as much as I loved it, I'm not ashamed to acknowledge that), but it had enough merit to remain on the bestseller list for an extended period and then to retrun to the list on publication of the sequal. It has reached the point where Chris's value as a writer is no longer dependent upon his work on Glee. Lea has to reach that stage.

[Buenos]

Ranwing I'm not arguing that New Years Eve was a huge career boost for Lea as some big movie smash, it wasn't .

Just that in the context of every TV star in the middle of production who has to try to get a film role somewhere, I don't get how  it all's that revealing or conclusive about Lea's overall chances , that's all.  She may very well crash and burn for a movie career post Glee, I willingly concede that.  I'm just saying in my opinion too much is being read on a small role in an ensemble movie that Lea made with her limited schedule/options.  After Glee is permanently finished than we can talk.  George Clooney didn't exactly set the world on fire with the movies he made while still on ER and many predicted he wasn't made for movie career, just to note you can't judge everything on 1 movie.

Gary Marshall was the director, Ashton Kutcher was her co star and about a dozen legit movie stars came out in the movie.  Any of those contacts , especially Gary Marshal , could lead to another opportunity or chance, especially if they enjoyed or were personally impressed by Lea.

Just like Darren's movie, which died at the box office.  Never the less he got to work with Kristen  Whig, Annette Benning, Matt Dillon, writers, producers, directors, etc, that could be valuable down the line.

I just don't think it's all that black and white in the fluid business of HW, even unsuccessful movies can lead to something down the line.  It happens all the time.

Unfortunately in the male dominated world of movies, it is much more tougher for a woman to maintain a mainstream movie career than a man.  I don't like it, but that is something all women in HW face, not just Lea.

[Ranwing]

Just that in the context of every TV star in the middle of production who has to try to get a film role somewhere, I don't get how  it all's that revealing or conclusive about Lea's overall chances , that's all.  She may very well crash and burn for a movie career post Glee, I willingly concede that.  I'm just saying in my opinion too much is being read on a small role in an ensemble movie that Lea made with her limited schedule/options.  After Glee is permanently finished than we can talk.  George Clooney didn't exactly set the world on fire with the movies he made while still on ER and many predicted he wasn't made for movie career, just to note you can't judge everything on 1 movie.

Fair enough. I just see it as the odds already being stacked against Lea because the number of TV actors to make the jump to film successfully are pretty small. For every George Clooney and Johnny Depp, there are a few dozen David Carusos. And it's not that I don't think that Lea doesn't have the talent - she most certainly does. And it certianly is possible for an actress to be successful in both - Allison Janney is the absolute queen of jumping from tv to film and back again. And lord knows that I've sat through enough films that had great directors and great cast and the film still stunk. I don't in any way blame Lea for the film being a flop.

I think what's frustrating me about some of the choices that Lea is making is that she is going for the mainstream gold ring is that she's deliberately doing stuff strictly to be marketable instead of things that are good. That just comes across as calculated, with her focused on being a star and not about being a really great actress (or recording artist or author). I just was hoping for more from her than just putting out a song that sounds like every other song on the radio. Sure, it'll probably get played a lot and might even be a hit but as far as her making her mark as something important (which she more than has the potential to do), I just don't see that happening. I would love to see want to take on a really challenging role acting wise that didn't default back to her being a singer and have her push outside her comfort zone. That for me is what seperates the actors that I really love - they're the ones who really try to do something special and not just what might be popular or lucrative. Right now I'm absolutely in love with Matthew McConnety and Jared Leto for their performances in Dallas Buyers Club because they both went so beyond anything I had come to expect from either one of them.

This is just my personal taste.

[Buenos]

The thing is Ranwing, Lea is still very young.  She was in 4 Broadway productions by the age of 20, and she was a TV star by the age of 23.

The kicker is that many artists don't get the opportunity Lea got to be a "mainstream" TV success at that age.   The irony is that many Broadway and "niche" artists are also striving to get that mainstream success if they can get it, so no, I don't think think their is some mystical aesthetic Lea has to strive for that she's compromising.  She is not really a song writer so like many interpretive singers she has to try to choose material that will be commercially successful.  It's a business.  It's the balance of having your persona mesh with the demands of commercial success that all artists struggle with. 

One of my favorite singers, Linda Rondstadt said she had to battle her record company for nearly a decade to put out the type of music she wanted, so I think that the recording industry is just  so brutal and pressure ridden and demanding and  the fact that a record label is willing to put out an album of Lea's and market it is a minor miracle despite her fame.  Compare with Amber, Santana, Darren, Kevin, etc, on their album efforts. 

Somehow I don't think this is Lea's only album effort to come, let's see what the whole album sounds like.

As to acting, as a broken record, post Glee let's see what choices she makes and what offers arise for her.

[fantastica]

talent doesn't determine success. there are a lot of talents in Tinseltown. even if you do everything right, there's still a big element of luck that nobody can control. let's wait and see.

[Ranwing]

Somehow I don't think this is Lea's only album effort to come, let's see what the whole album sounds like.

If it doesn't sell, it might very well be.

When Linda was recording and fighting with her label about the kind of album she put out, the recording industry was very, very different. First you had labels that were willing to nurture new talent and give them time to grow and find an build a following. You don't have that today - even for well established artists it sometimes takes a single album not performing to expectations to get cut from their label.

I think that the problem I have with Lea's choices for material for her album is that it doesn't do anything to capitalize on why she, out of everyone else on the planet putting out an album, should be listened to. I've been critical of Lea's singing but I do recognize her talent and believe that she could have a great career as a recording artist. It's her choices that I have problems. with. A singer with her talent and her background can do so much better than Cannonball (which was described by one poster on TWOP as consisting "entirely of bits and pieces of clichés that vaguely evoke the notion of empowerment". She's going in a very different direction from the music that she is known and acclaimed for and if it doesn't work, the odds are that she's not going to get another shot at recording an album. It's not that I'm being bitchy or hating on Lea. I'm just realisitic to what the music industry is today. She really doesn't have room for mistakes here.

[Buenos]

Well at least it's gotten off to a decent start it's already # 5 in the US itunes 100 album chart (and yes ,I realize it may not have any longevity there).

Matt Morrison has had 2albums out and a 3rd one coming out so I think the odds Lea may get more than one shot are good.  The difference is how much label backing/promo/ will she get.

[fantastica]

how did matt's second album do?

[Buenos]

how did matt's second album do?

Not that particularly well, however I think it did better than Glee's "Beatles" album as far as actual sales the first week as a comparison.

[glimmerle]

how did matt's second album do?

It debuted at chart position #95 (X). Don't know how it sold since then, though.

[Ranwing]

I think that a lot of people have a big misconception of just how much help being on a big tv show is in selling albums. American Idol is a great example - you would expect that even with the depressed ratings that the winners would be an automatic boost in record sales and that hasn't been the case. Most of the winners the past 5 years have not sold particuarly well. Even Adam Lambert's sales of his second album weren't fantastic (though it ended up being creative differences and not sales that were a factor for Adam to dissolve his contract with RCA).

Being on Glee, we would expect, would help in album sales but for the most part, the albums put out by cast members have not sold well (I think that Mark's was bought only by his family). There was a lot of excitment about Naya's album for a time, then it faded, got rekindled when she released her single and then crashed when her single turned out to be pretty much garbage. I think of all the cast, there is the most interest and excitment about Lea's album, but it's going to all hinge on getting her songs played and moving units. Right now buzz is going to be critical in getting people outside of the Glee fandom bubble to pay attention.

[Buenos]

I think that a lot of people have a big misconception of just how much help being on a big tv show is in selling albums.

Yes and no, the Nickleodeon Disney family franchise has had success with their marketing/promoting a certain type of built in demographics. They get tweeners and teenagers and there has been considerable success with TV "stars" such as the Jonas Brothers, Hannah Montana, Selena Gomez, Hillary Duff, etc, etc.

The longevity is open to debate but in that genre the Disney Family stars have had crossover success.

"The Voice" so far has not landed any stars on American record charts despite being the top music competition show, nor has the US "X factor".  I do think American Idol is hit and miss and is the only one who if someone has talent and appeal can at least get decent sales their first album out the door here and there.  I think the Philps Philips guy from last year sold well, his album went gold.   So "AI" is still a better platform overall.

On American Idol I can think of Kelly Clarkson, Carrie Underwood, Jordin Spars, Clay Aiken, Scott McCreery, Admam Lambert, off the top of my head...

[brisallie]

I've listened to the song, and I sincerely I like it. But there's something that it doesn't make me to say what such an awesome song. Overall, they have done a good job trying to fits her Broadway voice into a pop song, but still sounds to me like I had heard this kind of song previously. And I'm afraid people could say that, hey is a good song, but it not so much different from other pop songs I've heard.

I don't know, when it comes to Lea, I think lots of people expect the best from her and genuinly want her album being amazing, an album in which she could be able to prove what an strong singer she's. So, I simple wish her the best, and as I've mentioned before, lets wait and see what happen.

[Lottie2303]

Aaaaaand it has started. Lea is using Cory's death to promote her single. Tell me whatever you want, Chris would never ever do the same, no matter how much he wants to sell his project. At least Lea is making it very easy once again for me to dislike her. So much about her mourning privately... only when it benefits her career   

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1718830/lea-michele-cannonball-helped-deal-with-loss-cory-monteith.jhtml

[ColferInspired]

Aaaaaand it has started. Lea is using Cory's death to promote her single. Tell me whatever you want, Chris would never ever do the same, no matter how much he wants to sell his project. At least Lea is making it very easy once again for me to dislike her. So much about her mourning privately... only when it benefits her career   

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1718830/lea-michele-cannonball-helped-deal-with-loss-cory-monteith.jhtml

Darren tweeted about her album, so did Chord and Amber.

Lauren was tweeted about it by a fan and she tweeted back about it.

Others haven't as far as know tweeted anything about it.

[Lottie2303]

I don't care who promotes/helps to promote the album and I get Lea wants to sell it. That is all square and fair.

But for Christ sake, really, for the first song she is already using Cory's death? I am shocked I didn't expect it an advance, because it fits Lea's personality perfectly. Also, it makes me even madder because Cannonball is just a generic pop song! If she really wants to dedicate a song to Cory and use it for promotion, at least give the impression you put more effort into it instead of "how to commercialize a single successfully without any personality whatsoever".

That was one of the main arguments many used just hours ago: it is her first single and she needs to sell it. But even hardcore fans agree it is not her strongest song and it is heavily autotuned. Now she claims it was specifically written because of Cory's death... Yeah, sure.

Like it or not, Lea is using Cory's death to start her career and as PR tool. Bad taste, in my humble opinion.

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