Re: Kurt Hummel Spoiler Thread - part 20

[fantastica]

Matt sounded like he wanted out more than anybody else so this may be good for him. He's totally wasted here playing a character that nobody likes.

[Ranwing]

Matt sounded like he wanted out more than anybody else so this may be good for him. He's totally wasted here playing a character that nobody likes.

Had the show used Matt in the same capacity as he had in season 1 (and to a slightly lesser degree season 2) when he had real storylines that were about him, his relationships and didn't all completely revolve around ND, then I don't think he would be so ready to leave. But sidelining him for as long as they have, with multiple episodes when he had barely any screen presence (and more when he had none at all) and no real storylines to speak up would be ample reason for him to want off the show. He's too talented to be spinning his wheels on Glee and if he's got other prospects for work, then more power to him.

[Buenos]

I think it's more his character doesn't really serve a purpose other than to service the kids, and that got old even by season 3.

The nail in the coffin in essence was the show( per an interview) firing Jayma, thus getting rid of Emma. By the time Cory died, for whatever the BTS reasons, Matt seemed completely distanced from the show.

If they have Will fired in 5.12/13 and Glee disbanded they could easily have Matt off the show the rest of the year. They could have a short scene next year where he's teaching in Lima at some point but if they let go the rest the McKinley faculty ( Beistie, Figgins) it just seems they are closing off that part of Glee. I think they eventually will restart the Glee choir in Lima but most of it will be offscreen and tied in to Glee's original message that the arts matter in school. However I don't think any characters will be followed in Lima anymore.

I think it was doomed ( the split narrative) once they decided to follow characters post graduation in NY

[Ranwing]

I'm going to agree that keeping any of the graduates on screen pretty much doomed the noobs. There was not chance that they would be looked upon as fondly as Rachel, Kurt, Finn, etc, but they might have had a better chance to find their own place in the Glee narrative without constantly having their performances compared to Lea's, Chris's, Naya's, etc. And they could have avoided all the complaints over the NY storyline being starved for development and screen time had they either gone with the spin off, or simply given all the graduating characters appropriate write offs. Rachel could have gone off to NYADA, Kurt could have gotten admitted to Tisch (or any of the other great acting programs). They could have left everyone with open ended conclutions, but still giving up a clear perspective that they were on their way towards fulfilling their dreams.

Having them around, and worse, having them constantly coming back to McKinley to support the noobs just kept proving that the noobs weren't up the the challenge. It had to be a sink or swim proposition in order to make the noobs work, but instead they keep using the veterans like life guards. Constantly having Lea, Chris, Naya and Amber running back to McKinely to support the noobs just kept reinforcing how weak the noobs were. The cure ended up killing the patient.

[Buenos]

In hindsight  it was all so stupid.

Playing the devil's advocate, I do see what RM planned.  He wanted to extend the show's life by a revolving cast of characters.  Fair enough.

However, say the Noobs had been unbelievably successful, were new breakout stars and even warranted getting a summer concert tour on their own, as Ryan Murphy had envisioned, then what?

It meant that as the new stars of the show, they couldn't very well cut down their screen time.   So what were they going to do with Rachel, Kurt, Santana and the graduated Blaine?  

There is no way in hell FOX was going to let them go, no studio lets young stars early out of a 7 year contract (I'm assuming the time frame).  However all their screen time would have continued to be radically reduced so unless they accepted a spin off, there was going to be major problems.

Best case scenario was that the Noobs did reboot the show, ratings went up and FOX was reinvested in a spin off. I suppose for the right amount of $$$ Lea, Chris, Naya and Dareen might have resigned for another show which restarted their contracts again.

[Ranwing]

The revolving cast of characters would have worked had they done this at the very begining. Make some of the older looking cast members from the original group (say Quinn, Puck, Finn and maybe Mike) seniors and have them graduate at the end of season one and then introduce a few new bodies. Then in season two, let a few more of the original cast graduate (let's say Santana, Artie, Brittany and Tina). Bring in a few more warm bodies to replace them. Then in season three have the last of the major original group graduate (Rachel, Kurt, Tina, Mercedes) and then repopulate with another few new faces to round out the cast. This would have allowed a natural and more organic transition to a new cast (besides getting rid of the conceit that everyone who joined ND were either freshmen or sophmores) and not allowed the audience to get some attached to any one actor that they would be resistant to seeing new faces (since they would have had that from the very start.

Instead the show kept the same core cast for three seasons and we only one lost character (Matt - who was so silent during his tenure that his loss wasn't felt at all), a very small number of new faces (Sam, Blaine) that stuck around and a group of scene fillers (Sugar, Joe, Rory, Lauren) who would be around for a few eps primarily as background/supporting characters) and often disappeared without explaination. There was no organic transition to new cast so we get to the end of season three and the show faced with losing pretty much all of their primary cast in one fell swoop. It's no wonder that the network paniced and forced RM to figure out some way to keep at least Lea, Cory and Chris around, even if their roles were drastically reduced.

[Buenos]

Yeah, but I go back to the stupid part.

NO show other than Glee  is so staggeringly insane  as replacing their lead characters on screen after only THREE years.    Lea went from the star to a guest star as far as screentime  while still on the show as a regular .

No one does that in network TV.  
Some shows may have revolving casts but usually the core leads stay  for 5-7 years and then get transitioned off.   It doesn't happen in 3 years.

Except for Glee.

Nothing against the Noobs but I hope the ugly mess if a "lost" year and a half of failed McKinley narrative and leads is just closed off as soon as possible. The "Blee" show is dead and should remain so with a stake through that ridiculous heart narrative.

Once it's all NY we can hopefully see some SL's for the NY characters.

[sheny]

@msleamichele Singing on the #glee set tonight! So happy to work w/ the amazing @KChenoweth! I <3 her so much! #glee100thepisode 

[Glorfindel]

Lea Michele
What is Rachel up to now?? #glee100thepisode


If 'Defying Gravity' is simply another diva-off repeat.....................  

[Lottie2303]

I can see Rachel is overly-emotional again  . Also Lea is so thin and not in a natural way. I hate to say it, but in this case, she really needs to gain some weight   

[coxfire]

NO show other than Glee  is so staggeringly insane  as replacing their lead characters on screen after only THREE years.

Well, Skins did it after 2 seasons, but they replaced everyone. All characters "graduated" in a way, and the show kept following high school guys. The transition wasn't so bad, but the writing did pick up on different storylines than in S1&2, and created different characters.

Glee fucked up by not only keeping the graduates and pop them in McK at random times, but rehashed their previous SL's with V2.0 of the old characters. Perfect receipe for failure.

[Glorfindel]

I can see Rachel is overly-emotional again  . Also Lea is so thin and not in a natural way. I hate to say it, but in this case, she really needs to gain some weight   

Rachel's OTT singing (which imo increased over the seasons) is making me weary and a bit afraid about the new 'Defying Gravity' recording. She might ruin it for me.  
I hope they will release solo versions again.

And maybe it's the way those pics were taken (camera lenses shots?), but Lea does look very thin, almost too thin for her head.

[sjonnepon]

I can see Rachel is overly-emotional again  . Also Lea is so thin and not in a natural way. I hate to say it, but in this case, she really needs to gain some weight   

her head looks really big from this angle.

I don't know but she has a face like she's going to blow the note this time.

[Lottie2303]

^ But it is not just the angle. The very body-fitting clothes and high waist skirt highlight her body tremendously. I don’t know Lea personally, but I am naturally thin and a bit underweight. I see on a daily basis and I really can judge it. Lea isn’t. I am sorry, but this is not a healthy look at all. I sincerely believe her fanbase has to worry about her. I am sorry for those harsh words, but there is no way she lost weight in a natural manner. It just… no, it isn’t healthy

[Ranwing]

Rachel's OTT singing (which imo increased over the seasons) is making me weary and a bit afraid about the new 'Defying Gravity' recording. She might ruin it for me.

Taking my answer to the Snark & Bark thread...

[Jellyrolls]

I can see Rachel is overly-emotional again  . Also Lea is so thin and not in a natural way. I hate to say it, but in this case, she really needs to gain some weight   

I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw these pictures.

[Ranwing]

I can see Rachel is overly-emotional again  . Also Lea is so thin and not in a natural way. I hate to say it, but in this case, she really needs to gain some weight   

her head looks really big from this angle.

I don't know but she has a face like she's going to blow the note this time.

She is very thin. My mom noted it during the Chrismas special. I know that she had lost some weight since the begining of the show (like Chris, she got rid of the puppy fat), but now it's too much. Same with Naya. And I don't buy that it's because of what happened to Cory. Not after six months when she should be moving on and has resumed a more normal routine.

[Divalicious]

I do think Lea and Naya are too thin, but this is a funky angle, almost looks two dimensional. Hopefully after years of over the top performances, Lea can learn to dial it back, because Rachel can get wearisome. These scenes do seem to be using emotion from Finn's death, because they have Rachel in the place where she spent all her time with Finn.

[Ranwing]

I brought it up in the Snark & Bark thread that an OTT performing style was a hallmark of Rachel going all the way back to the pilot. She cranks the emotional dial up to 11 and the end result is constipated faces to show Just. How. Much. She. Feels! What's lacking? Real genuine soul and emotion. We get that occasionally, but whenever Rachel is in performance headspace, we're back to the OTT stylings.

My issue is that she's supposed to be on the verge of being a professional performer and spent so many years in real training and working with a group that I would expect her to learn a bit of modulation. That not everything needs to be telegraphed so heavily. As a performer Rachel has the subltey of a rock, and hasn't shown any real improvement in the four years that we've been watching her.

[Buenos]

[quote="coxfire"]

NO show other than Glee  is so staggeringly insane  as replacing their lead characters on screen after only THREE years.

Well, Skins did it after 2 seasons, but they replaced everyone.

Yeah but   "Skins'   is not an American Major network TV show on prime time with a multimillion dollar investment/return.

[brisallie]

@Buenos, you know, Skins always came to make when it comes to think in a series that had changed its whole cast and somehow was able to go through that successfully. But even in that case, some fans have protested, but not as much as gleeks have done it. Because as you mentioned these fans grew up fond of these characters for three years, so is hard for them to accept the introduction of the 2.0 version. Speaking of that, unlike Glee, it seems to me Skins bring more original characters in all the generations, they're not copycat.

[Buenos]

@Buenos, you know, Skins always came to make when it comes to think in a series that had changed its whole cast and somehow was able to go through that successfully. But even in that case, some fans have protested, but not as much as gleeks have done it. Because as you mentioned these fans grew up fond of these characters for three years, so is hard for them to accept the introduction of the 2.0 version. Speaking of that, unlike Glee, it seems to me Skins bring more original characters in all the generations, they're not copycat.

I agree 100%, my premise is that "Skins" (not just because of the explicit content) wouldn't work on a prime time network scripted comedy/drama with fictional characters, that's all. In a scripted show, unless it's deliberately a stand alone anthology series like AHS, you can't replace your leading characters that quickly. It just doesn't happen. On Cable you could get away with something like that.

[valkeakuulas]

@Buenos, you know, Skins always came to make when it comes to think in a series that had changed its whole cast and somehow was able to go through that successfully. But even in that case, some fans have protested, but not as much as gleeks have done it. Because as you mentioned these fans grew up fond of these characters for three years, so is hard for them to accept the introduction of the 2.0 version. Speaking of that, unlike Glee, it seems to me Skins bring more original characters in all the generations, they're not copycat.

I agree 100%, my premise is that "Skins" (not just because of the explicit content) wouldn't work on a  prime time network scripted comedy/drama with fictional characters, that's all.   In a scripted show, unless it's deliberately a stand alone anthology series  like AHS, you can't replace your leading characters that quickly.  It just doesn't happen.  On Cable you could get away with something like that.

Skins had only 6 eps in a series, so we got to see the graduates for only 12 eps. For Glee I do think the main reason for the anger and dissapointment (certainly is for me) is that they gave us nearly 60 eps of the originals before threatning to take them away.

[brisallie]

Skins had only 6 eps in a series, so we got to see the graduates for only 12 eps. For Glee I do think the main reason for the anger and dissapointment (certainly is for me) is that they gave us nearly 60 eps of the originals before threatning to take them away.

I was thinking the same. And even sometimes I've wondered if Glee would had been a series with less episodes, they wouldn't have changed the cast, as it would have been easier to extend the high school years. As is not, I'm still trying to figure out what they could have done to not have the graduation gate.

[Buenos]

Skins had only 6 eps in a series, so we got to see the graduates for only 12 eps. For Glee I do think the main reason for the anger and dissapointment (certainly is for me) is that they gave us nearly 60 eps of the originals before threatning to take them away.

I was thinking the same. And even sometimes I've wondered if Glee would had been a series with less episodes, they wouldn't have changed the cast, as it would have been easier to extend the high school years. As is not, I'm still trying to figure out what they could have done to not have the graduation gate.

However shows like Beverly Hills 90210 (the original) and Buffy the Vampire Slayer did follow the lead characters though high school and beyond so it's not as if there was no precedent.  It was Ryan Murphy who was pompously  going to do something different, but then again not really as he had some characters in HS for nearly 5 years after all, so what was the point?   IF that was the case, he might as well have split up the original cast's senior year to be Seasons 3 and 4 as others have mentioned.  Just idiocy what he did do.

The other reason it was so idiotic  is that Glee was going to go into syndication.  Now they have 1 1/2 years of practically worthless episodes of Noobs that have been erased from the show that are part of the syndication package.   Again, how stupid is that?

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