5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

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What did you think of the episode ?

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Buenos on 9/27/2013, 3:00 pm

For a five year show that is bad numbers for their hyped premiere:
 
I think RM had a double strategy with all the Noob/Darren combo.   One, the original young stars were overworked so I don't doubt he wanted to give  them a break after S3. (While getting rid of some of them due to bloat)  Plus by having them "part time" with such a huge cast, RIB/FOX could justify keeping salaries down.  Jane has always worked part time, however for a five year network show, if TV guide is right and Lea, Chris, Matt and company get about close to 80K per episode  the stars are relatively underpaid.

By overworking New New Directions and making them into "stars" like the original cast , the show would make a smooth transition.  It would still follow Kurt,Rachel and Santana part time but ensure it's future by keeping the McKinley template going.  Once Darren/Blaine did his job and anchored McKinley (with Cory as new instructor) they would ship him over to NY and Glee would still thrive.

Unfortunately it hasn't worked, and by relying so much on Darren to carry McKinley, they are in a pickle because graduation is supposedly looming.  

I've said it before, my hunch is they are not going to graduate anyone anytime soon.   They might as well just extend the school year at this point because I doubt  RIB has what they feel  is a winning strategy to reboot.  

Forget the two year renewal, if the numbers dip Season Five is it.  Season 6 is not going to happen at this erosion rate of ratings/audience.   2.0 for the season premiere of Glee?  Usually the first three/four episodes are the highest for the season if I'm not mistaken.

So I'm hoping Chris/Kurt gets some fun song numbers and at least a couple of entertaining SL's  but I don't think there will be  Klaine reunion in NY.  I'm good with Kurt's SL at least resolving his career goals inbetween "wedding" plans. Rolling Eyes 
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  fantastica on 9/27/2013, 4:16 pm

i do hope season 6 doesn't happen. but they still have 5 million viewers, right? there are shows w/ much less viewers. so this isn't too bad, as long as fox doesn't have something else better in the pipe line.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 9/27/2013, 5:13 pm

The pathetic ratings are clear evidence that everything RM was gambling the show on - the noobs catching on with the audience, Darren being a huge draw and able to anchor one of the locales and sidelining the stronger characters to give the new ones a chance - has failed. Extending the school year for this cast has been the worst miscalculation the show has ever made and it just exacerbates everything that was wrong about last season. Instead of having a new year to start everything fresh, were just dragging out the storylines that failed last season into the new season.

You would think with dragging out the storylines into a second season that it would have allowed some time to properly allow the Klaine reconciliation to play out so that this engagement, while not welcome, at least would make some kind of sense. Instead we're whiplashed where Kurt goes from one episode insisting that he and Blaine were not together, to not only Kurt wanting to be back together and then almost immediately being engaged.

I have to admit that I am a hard-hearted cynic without a romantic bone in my body. But were I on the receiving end of a huge display like Kurt was, with my partner bringing out everyone that I've known for years and making that OTT vow of devotion, I'd have a hard time saying no too. Maybe later he'll have buyer's remorse and decide that he's just not ready for this level of commitment. But having the young man that he loves putting on a show like that strictly for the purpose of trying to show how much Kurt means to him? Even the cruelest cynic would have a hard time crapping all over that, no matter how justified he might be.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Georgette888 on 9/27/2013, 5:23 pm

I have been thinking about Burt and how they have been writing him since TBU. I wrote http://georgette888.tumblr.com/post/62441619702/i-was-thinking-about-the-way-glee-has-been-writing about it (which I will link here, rather than post, as it is long *g*). Needless to say the writing makes no sense.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Buenos on 9/27/2013, 5:35 pm

Georgette888 wrote:I have been thinking about Burt and how they have been writing him since TBU. I wrote http://georgette888.tumblr.com/post/62441619702/i-was-thinking-about-the-way-glee-has-been-writing about it (which I will link here, rather than post, as it is long *g*). Needless to say the writing makes no sense.

Georgette, the one thing I will say is that some of what Burt said in his speech made sense. He talked about the pitfalls of idealizing marriage, being young, but the problem was he was also presenting the premise to a 19 year old that you don't know what will happen tomorrow and appreciate/seize what you have today so you don't have regrets. Burt failed to tell Kurt it can work both ways, a rushed early marriage can make you regret your life, but it was all couched in terms of the idealized Hummel marriage with the dead mother/wife. So Burt was comparing Kurt/Blaine to his own true love.

On second thought, it was that bad....because I don't think Burt thought that Rachel/Finn didn't love each other but simply were not ready. Razz 
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  tanita_mors on 9/27/2013, 5:45 pm

I don't know why, but for some reason, next to all the flaws that this episodes has (and it has quite a few), i thought it was decent enough. A solid C if that can be considered a good grade. It has some mayor plot points with I hate, which, lets be honest is no surprise, but on the whole it could have been a lot worse. Still not the Glee I feel in love with thought. Rather that Glee that I feel out of love.

One of the mayor problems I had with this episode pretty much colors the basic problem with Glee the past year and probably will in the future unless big changes happen, is the terrible edits, cuts and an uneven flow that the whole episode has. The scenes just go one after another without any direction or point. it's like some one said : now we have a Rachel scenes, then an Artie scenes, then a Sue scene and so on and so forth. No natural transition what so ever. Another huge issue is the constant feeling like I'm watching two complete different shows for different audiences with totally unrelated characters. McKinley is a cute and obnoxious teen comedy/drama while New York has a complete different feel to it - 20's something friends trying to live, love and work in the big city. These two shows shouldn't be happened at the same time in the same space, but they do, and it's not good. At all.

When I stared watching the episode, i thought I was going to write that I don't hate Artie and Kitty. But that isn't true. To be quite honest, my not hatting them turned into my liking them a lot. Honestly, they were the brightest part of this episode and almost flaw free. I'm glad that my opinion that Becca Tobin was the bright light at the end of last years mediocre crop and here she continues to prove that. She and Kevin have really lovely screen chemistry and even if they don't end up together (which by the way was one of the truest lines stated in the episode and it would be great if you Blaine would take the hint, Mr "we will be together forever"). You could see Kitty really cares about Artie, so much that she wanted to be sure that the feeling was right and true and not some passing fancy like many other before. I rather liked their numbers. Fun and cute.

Rachel - I don't know what to do with you darling. I always liked Rachel, even thought I hate her type of person in real life (those people who just "need" to point out to everyone who much better they are at whatever and you are blind if you don't see it or ignore it). Honestly, I saw nothing, nothing demeaning or problematic about what those two season long professionals said about her. She has potential, but she is young, inexperienced and they aren't sure if going with the unknown is the way to go. If I was a casting director and a girl came to me with the kind of attitude Rachel showed in the diner, I would have made sure she was sorry for that kind of insolence. I'm sorry, but who the fuck is she to talk to someone who probably knows what they are doing like that. Big slap in the face for you Rachel. I'm really disappointed in you. Show some fucking humility will you.

On the positive side, i don have to say I loved her and Santana scenes in the diner. I think i really say that chemistry everyone talks about that two of them have. Her staring to work there was probably one of the best written, directed and acted scenes in the episode. I look forward to more in that dinner.

As for Sue, I rather liked Jane's work and her scenes in this one, except the last one with Figgings. went a bit too far (thought i did chuckle at the Carmina Burana callback with the music). I love that Sue wants winners. She has goals and to achieve them, buissness comes before pleasure. Honestly, if he lost Nationals, I'd fire useless Shuster as well. Good work Sue. I'm not even going mention the whole Becky thing. Deserved more then a call back, but this is Glee after all.

Tina is just a grade A bitch now. I guess it doesn't pay to constantly comp-lain about lack of screen time when you end up with the drivel that Jenna keeps getting. And Sam is right, it was all your fault Blaine. I saw her standing there doesn't feature Tina as a singer, but given that it was about her, I'm gonna be as blunt as i can be. That was one of the worst impersonations of the Beatles in my life and OMG Darren could you have shock your head more. That was embarrassing.

Here comes the most divisive part of Love, Love, Love. Kurt and Blaine. Klaine. As much as it pained me, I went throw the "lets get back together" scene quite well. Chris was fantastic, relaxed and flurthy, just enough biting and sarcastic. I didn't like that little jab at Kadam shippers even though I'm not really one. That was unnecessary and kind of a dick move. Kurt loves Blaine and they get back together. I may hate it, but It's a fact that won't change soon so I'm just going to let it go. The courtyard song was again cute and i enjoyed hearing Chris sing for the first time in a long time on this show.

Now starts the problem. Blaine still wants to get married. He announces it to the Glee club and the reaction was as it should have been. Crickets. exepct for Sam but given that he is Blaine's best bro (what ever that means) and that he looks and acts like a homeless junky reject from the grunge 90's I don't count his opinion for shit. Blaine doesn't say he wants to marry Kurt because he love him and the rest of that sappy crap he utters after his proposal song, he wants to do it because it matters now, it's socially important. Really Blaine. The biggest most important decision in your life and you are making it at the spur of the moment, literary hours after the got you boyfriend back after cheating on him and you want to do it for the world. I'm speechless as to how FUCKING STUPID all of that sounded. And that is when I had all of my prior opinions on this matter confiremed. I don't care that Kurt said YES and cried from "happiness". I don't care everyone was there to cheer for them. that was the single stupidest thing this show has done and we all know how stupid Glee has gotten over the past 4 years. I'm gonna lie to myself or not (depending on the fact if I imagined it or not) that that final glance we had of Kurt before the episode ended was him regretting saying YES almost right away, because it was clear he wasn't ready just by his talk with Burt. I happen to think he was swept in the moment and will rethink his decision later in the season (if this show made any sense that is). Also, i don't care for All you need is love. Not a fan of the song or the performance.

There were two more or less bright spots in this part of the episode. Kurt and Burt. Once more Burt showed what a great dad he really is because ultimately he didn't push his opinion on his son. He told him his side of the story and you got to emphasize with a man who lost the love of his life so early on and cherish every moment you have the person you love. I see nothing wrong in that. It's honest and true. And he rightly told Kurt that his opinion doesn't matter. it was only on Kurt to say YES, NO or MAYBE. I wish he listened to his clear doubt and at least said MAYBE or told Blaine to wait, not to rush, but i guess I wouldn't be so disappointed if he did. Second part that I really enjoyed surprisingly for me features Blaine among other people. I really liked the montage of Help and the vocals on this song were his best of the episode.


PS : I haven't red anyone's opinions yet, just finished the episode half and hour ago. I can guess have 9 pages of criticism and rage to go throw. Should be fun. fanny2 

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 9/27/2013, 6:26 pm

AnneNeville wrote:I'm reading Backlot's review right now, and it's whole tone is incredibly sarcastic and critical of Klaine, unless something shifts dramatically. Are you sure what was posted reflects what the reviewer said?

ETA: The part about the proposal said it was incredibly romantic, but that doesn't really counterbalance all the heavy sarcasm from earlier in the article. It sounds like the reviewer appreciated the speech and gesture separate from the context.
I didn't see the whole the review, Klainers must be posting parts of it.

My heart breaks for Kurt. :(

Though what they have done has made Kurt more real than ever as a character. Kurt is so damaged it is just sad. :(

I do think Kurt thinks he wasn't good enough for Adam and is like a lot of abuse victims, where they always think there is a catch if they meet a nice guy, same with Kurt. A friend of mine who was a victim of abuse from her ex husband pointed this out to me yesterday. :(

I sort of feel this is leading up to something.

If they wanted to redeem Blaine to the rest of the non Blaine fans, they would not have written it as it was written. This has just resulted in more Klainers jumping ship, and now some reviewers are finding the guts to write the truth. I hope more do the same.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Buenos on 9/27/2013, 6:42 pm

Don't mean to offend anyone in particular , but I think this talk of Kurt being "abused" and  a victim is a way bit over the top.   People do  cheat in relationships and lo and behold, are sometimes  forgiven by the offended party and,  sometimes, hard as it is to believe, that is where it ends.  The relationship stands.

If nobody ever ever  forgave any infidelity, as terrible as such a transgression is, many long standing and arguably successful  relationships would not have endured.  Being able to Forgive  is also part of a committed relationship.  While many may not agree, there are reasons why people forgive such actions.  It doesn't help if they still love the offending party.   That is why it's so easy to say "I can't believe so and so hasn't dumped XYZ" when you discount if they still have feelings for the person.

The issue I have is the cheating and its aftermath were never addressed properly on the show, but that is not just problematic with Klaine. (See Finchel and WEMMA).  Some people just don't like Blaine (fair enough) and  whatever he did on the show would never be enough to compensate for the hurt he caused Kurt, but that's a different can of worms as far as I'm concerned.

However, Kurt forgiving a boyfriend who cheated on him is not "abuse" unless said boyfriend cheats repeatedly and is forgiven repeatedly.     Unlike others, I doubt the show will ever ever let Blaine stray again, if anything, they will tether him to Kurt and he will be  Kurt's lovesick puppy dog ball and chain until the end of the show's run.  Whether that is good or bad for Kurt is entirely a subjective opinion.


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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 9/27/2013, 6:42 pm

tanita_mors wrote:
Rachel - I don't know what to do with you darling. I always liked Rachel, even thought I hate her type of person in real life (those people who just "need" to point out to everyone who much better they are at whatever and you are blind if you don't see it or ignore it). Honestly, I saw nothing, nothing demeaning or problematic about what those two season long professionals said about her. She has potential, but she is young, inexperienced and they aren't sure if going with the unknown is the way to go. If I was a casting director and a girl came to me with the kind of attitude Rachel showed in the diner, I would have made sure she was sorry for that kind of insolence. I'm sorry, but who the fuck is she to talk to someone who probably knows what they are doing like that. Big slap in the face for you Rachel. I'm really disappointed in you. Show some fucking humility will you.  
I don't think she's really capable of it. Not with the past season of having everyone (right down to bitchy Cassandra) going out of their way to reinforce Rachel's position as Special Snowflake. The last person who is able to make an honest assessment of where Rachel stands as a performer is Rachel herself. And when someone finds her lacking in some capacity, her focus seems to shift to proving their assessment wrong rather than working to actually improve.

The director and seasoned actor were very correct in judging Rachel as not being ready to take on a lead role in a Broadway show, least of all once as difficult as Fanny Brice. In Funny Girl, Fanny Brice is the show. If the actress playing that role is lacking, then the whole show falls apart because there's really no other character equal to Fanny in the show to hold up the slack. And if they pick the wrong actress, then you're talking about millions of dollars of investment down the tubes. Rachel has a lot going for her. She is charming and she does have presence and she looks like a young Fanny Brice. The downside - a complete lack of any practical experience that makes casting her a very risky proposition. She might be brilliant, or she might crumble under the pressure of carrying a show because she's got no track record as a performer. Being the soloist for ND or starring in a school show are not proof that she's capable because those were performing only a few times a year and not eight shows over six days a week for months at a stretch.

And then you have her reading where she showed just where her instincts were as a performer - to try to copy what Barbra did. Understandable since Barbra is the ionic performer in that role, but it highlighted how immature Rachel is as an actress. That she couldn't go beyond what her idol did and instead made herself into a cheap copy. She was handing them on a silver platter every rational not to hire her, and she knew it. She knew that she blew it the moment they cut her reading off short and basically tuned her out the moment she was dismissed.

What's unfortunate is how Rachel responded to this very logical and rational look at the pros and cons of casting her - telling the director to his face that he was wrong in how he saw her. That her poor showing at the line reading (much like her NYADA audition) needs to be overlooked because she is ready and she's a star and he's a poopy head for not seeing that. Unlike how Kurt tried to affect how he was seen by the WSS directors, by trying to show that he can play a traditionally masculine role, Rachel just tried to impress them with her star quality. Kurt tried to rise to a bar that had been set, while Rachel insisted that she met the bar even when it was several inches over her head.

Rachel isn't going to grow up as a performer until she hits the brick wall that she can't wheedle and argue her way around. She's got to lose and it's got to be definitive and not something that gets expunged a week or two later. Because until it gets hammered home in some way that there are things that Rachel just is not capable of at this moment, she's got no reason to really work to try to improve as a performer. NYADA has been a waste for Rachel because she's been lauded as so very special at nearly every turn, so why work to improve if you're already great?
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 9/27/2013, 6:53 pm

If they wanted me to start liking Blaine they  would of done the following.  Have Blaine take 100% responsibility  for  cheating on Kurt. No blaming his cheating on Kurt. in any way. Work on earning Kurt's trust back. To prove to Kurt he won't cheat on him again.Not put Kurt in a tough spot by having a public proposal ,which it would make it hard  for Kurt to say no, even if he wanted too. They would have the characters point out Blaine's flaws instead of pretending he   is perfect can to  no wrong. If they have done that I would like Blaine a lot more than do I do now.


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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Buenos on 9/27/2013, 6:59 pm

Ranwing wrote:Rachel isn't going to grow up as a performer until she hits the brick wall that she can't wheedle and argue her way around. She's got to lose and it's got to be definitive and not something that gets expunged a week or two later. Because until it gets hammered home in some way that there are things that Rachel just is not capable of at this moment, she's got no reason to really work to try to improve as a performer. NYADA has been a waste for Rachel because she's been lauded as so very special at nearly every turn, so why work to improve if you're already great?
I don't get why the writers and RIB can't figure out that Rachel as a genuine underdog with actual obstacles/hurdles would garner her more audience empathy and the ultimate end game resolution would be that much more satisfying.

Put her in an understudy role the rest of the year and just flailing would be so much more fun. Arguing with the director, cat fights with the backstage cast, meltdowns when her talent is not recognized, it could be comic gold.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 9/27/2013, 7:05 pm

Buenos wrote:Don't mean to offend anyone in particular , but I think this talk of Kurt being "abused" and  a victim is a way bit over the top.   People do  cheat in relationships and lo and behold, are sometimes  forgiven by the offended party and,  sometimes, hard as it is to believe, that is where it ends.  The relationship stands.

If nobody ever ever  forgave any infidelity, as terrible as such a transgression is, many long standing and arguably successful  relationships would not have endured.  Being able to Forgive  is also part of a committed relationship.  While many may not agree, there are reasons why people forgive such actions.  It doesn't help if they still love the offending party.   That is why it's so easy to say "I can't believe so and so hasn't dumped XYZ" when you discount if they still have feelings for the person.

The issue I have is the cheating and its aftermath were never addressed properly on the show, but that is not just problematic with Klaine. (See Finchel and WEMMA).  Some people just don't like Blaine (fair enough) and  whatever he did on the show would never be enough to compensate for the hurt he caused Kurt, but that's a different can of worms as far as I'm concerned.

However, Kurt forgiving a boyfriend who cheated on him is not "abuse" unless said boyfriend cheats repeatedly and is forgiven repeatedly.     Unlike others, I doubt the show will ever ever let Blaine stray again, if anything, they will tether him to Kurt and he will be  Kurt's lovesick puppy dog ball and chain until the end of the show's run.  Whether that is good or bad for Kurt is entirely a subjective opinion.
People say abuse because of Season 3.

TFT is one reason. Dance With Somebody is another, where Kurt was slut shamed in front of his friends. And other reasons as well.

This has nothing to do with just Blaine cheating, it has everything to do with how Blaine has treated Kurt before that as well.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Glorfindel on 9/27/2013, 7:06 pm

Buenos wrote:However, Kurt forgiving a boyfriend who cheated on him is not "abuse" unless said boyfriend cheats repeatedly and is forgiven repeatedly.     Unlike others, I doubt the show will ever ever let Blaine stray again, if anything, they will tether him to Kurt and he will be  Kurt's lovesick puppy dog ball and chain until the end of the show's run.  Whether that is good or bad for Kurt is entirely a subjective opinion.
But it's not 'just' the cheating. You have to add to that the manipulating and blaming Kurt for everything wrong with Klaine throughout their relationship. The cheating is just the ugly surface of the underlying problems, and yes: emotional abuse.

- It's Blaine multiple times telling Kurt to tone it down, even shush him when he wants to say something.
- It's Blaine dating Kurt's best friend after Kurt just expressed to him that he's in love with him, and then compares Kurt to his own bully (who forced him to flee his school!) when Kurt's upset about it.
- It's Blaine in pressuring Kurt to get educated on sex because "some day he might get drunk and do something stupid" (yeah Blaine, you're certainly someone to lecture about that), and when Kurt won't because he's uncomfortable and not ready, Blaine goes to his father.
- It's Blaine not stopping when Kurt said "no" multiple times in the car scene, and then Blaine screaming at Kurt and blaming him.
- It's Blaine not even confessing to Kurt that he wanted sex because of his Tony performance in WSS.
- It's Blaine not being aware of how often Kurt got rejected when he then got what Kurt wanted, even needed.
- It's Blaine slut-shaming Kurt in front of all his friends for a small offense he did himself too, and then did again multiplied by 10 half a year later.
- It's Blaine being okay with Sam dismissing Kurt as a friend because he's too effeminate.
- It's Blaine punishing Kurt for not being there for him fast and often enough when he is finally succesful in his new, accepting city, slipping way from Blaine's control.
- It's Blaine blaming Kurt for his own cheating, and then whine about it as if he's the victim.
- It's Blaine not respecting Kurt's boundaries and wishes when he wants to be left alone, taking it to stalkerish and insensitive levels (insensitive as in agreeing to come with Burt to NY at Christmas).
- It's Blaine having sex with Kurt while agreeing that it was just a hook-up, and then pressuring him into admitting it was more, and then blaming Kurt again for minimizing it.
- It's Blaine not respecting nor accepting how Kurt tells him he feels, even nodding happily and saying "thank you" when the lesbian couple thought they were together.
- It's Blaine having a severe crush on Sam while practically planning his wedding proposal with Kurt.
- It's Blaine excusing his cheating again only minutes before they get back together again.
- It's Blaine saying that Kurt should at least "give it a try" again and then a day later putting extreme pressure on Kurt to commit fully by organizing a wedding proposal in front of all Kurt's friends, his father and about a 100 people.

And there's probably more.

Add that up and tell me that this is not an emotionally abuse relationship.


-ETA-

ColferInspired wrote:People say abuse because of Season 3.

TFT is one reason. Dance With Somebody is another, where Kurt was slut shamed in front of his friends. And other reasons as well.

This has nothing to do with just Blaine cheating, it has everything to do with how Blaine has treated Kurt before that as well.
Exactly.
And lol, you only needed 5 sentences to say the same I did. Smile

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 9/27/2013, 7:13 pm

ColferInspired wrote:
Buenos wrote:Don't mean to offend anyone in particular , but I think this talk of Kurt being "abused" and  a victim is a way bit over the top.   People do  cheat in relationships and lo and behold, are sometimes  forgiven by the offended party and,  sometimes, hard as it is to believe, that is where it ends.  The relationship stands.

If nobody ever ever  forgave any infidelity, as terrible as such a transgression is, many long standing and arguably successful  relationships would not have endured.  Being able to Forgive  is also part of a committed relationship.  While many may not agree, there are reasons why people forgive such actions.  It doesn't help if they still love the offending party.   That is why it's so easy to say "I can't believe so and so hasn't dumped XYZ" when you discount if they still have feelings for the person.

The issue I have is the cheating and its aftermath were never addressed properly on the show, but that is not just problematic with Klaine. (See Finchel and WEMMA).  Some people just don't like Blaine (fair enough) and  whatever he did on the show would never be enough to compensate for the hurt he caused Kurt, but that's a different can of worms as far as I'm concerned.

However, Kurt forgiving a boyfriend who cheated on him is not "abuse" unless said boyfriend cheats repeatedly and is forgiven repeatedly.     Unlike others, I doubt the show will ever ever let Blaine stray again, if anything, they will tether him to Kurt and he will be  Kurt's lovesick puppy dog ball and chain until the end of the show's run.  Whether that is good or bad for Kurt is entirely a subjective opinion.
People say abuse because of Season 3.

TFT is one reason. Dance With Somebody is another, where Kurt was slut shamed in front of his friends. And other reasons as well.

This has nothing to do with just Blaine cheating, it has everything to do with how Blaine has treated Kurt before that as well.
Good points. Some of the reasons I don't like Blaine is because of  both TFT and Dance With Somebody. TFT because of The  Car scene and To Dance with Somebody because he slut slammed  Kurt for texting Chandler  when he was doing the very same thing with Sebastian


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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Georgette888 on 9/27/2013, 7:14 pm

I think a lot of people have been seriously creeped out by Blaine's insistence they they will be together whilst never listening to Kurt's views on the matter. That combined with the way Blaine turns his mistakes back on Kurt and blames him in TBU and in this ep, even seemingly being a bit angry looking when Kurt brings it up, starts to ping with a lot of people. Is this meant? No. Blaine is supposed to be a 'good guy'. But shitty writing plus equally shitty acting from Darren means that it isn't a total reach to say this looks like a bit of an emotionally abusive dynamic.


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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ColferInspired on 9/27/2013, 7:17 pm

Glorfindel wrote:
Buenos wrote:However, Kurt forgiving a boyfriend who cheated on him is not "abuse" unless said boyfriend cheats repeatedly and is forgiven repeatedly.     Unlike others, I doubt the show will ever ever let Blaine stray again, if anything, they will tether him to Kurt and he will be  Kurt's lovesick puppy dog ball and chain until the end of the show's run.  Whether that is good or bad for Kurt is entirely a subjective opinion.
But it's not 'just' the cheating. You have to add to that the manipulating and blaming Kurt for everything wrong with Klaine throughout their relationship. The cheating is just the ugly surface of the underlying problems, and yes: emotional abuse.

- It's Blaine multiple times telling Kurt to tone it down, even shush him when he wants to say something.
- It's Blaine not stopping when Kurt said "no" multiple times in the car scene, and then Blaine screaming at Kurt and blaming him.
- It's Blaine not even confessing to Kurt that he wanted sex because of his Tony performance in WSS.
- It's Blaine not being aware of how often Kurt got rejected when he then got what Kurt wanted, even needed.
- It's Blaine slut-shaming Kurt in front of all his friends for a small offense he did himself too, and then did again multiplied by 10 half a year later.
- It's Blaine being okay with Sam dismissing Kurt as a friend because he's too effeminate.
- It's Blaine punishing Kurt for not being there for him fast and often enough when he is finally succesful in his new, accepting city, slipping way from Blaine's control.
- It's Blaine blaming Kurt for his own cheating, and then whine about it as if he's the victim.
- It's Blaine not respecting Kurt's boundaries and wishes when he wants to be left alone, taking it to stalkerish and insensitive levels (insensitive as in agreeing to come with Burt to NY at Christmas).
- It's Blaine having sex with Kurt while agreeing that it was just a hook-up, and then pressuring him into admitting it was more, and then blaming Kurt again for minimizing it.
- It's Blaine not respecting nor accepting how Kurt tells him he feels, even nodding happily and saying "thank you" when the lesbian couple thought they were together.
- It's Blaine having a severe crush on Sam while practically planning his wedding proposal with Kurt.
- It's Blaine excusing his cheating again only minutes before they get back together again.
- It's Blaine saying that Kurt should at least "give it a try" again and then a day later putting extreme pressure on Kurt to commit fully by organizing a wedding proposal in front of all Kurt's friends, his father and about a 100 people.

And there's probably more.

Add that up and tell me that this is not an emotionally abuse relationship.


-ETA-

ColferInspired wrote:People say abuse because of Season 3.

TFT is one reason. Dance With Somebody is another, where Kurt was slut shamed in front of his friends. And other reasons as well.

This has nothing to do with just Blaine cheating, it has everything to do with how Blaine has treated Kurt before that as well.
Exactly.
And lol, you only needed 5 sentences to say the same I did. Smile
What my friend said yesterday and thinking about Klaine made me realise her ex husband is the same as Blaine when she was married to him. :(
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  wickedwitch on 9/27/2013, 7:20 pm

I consider myself a Klaine-fan, but I hate this storyline beyond words. I wanted them to get back together after Blaine groveled and they got to know each other as friends again.

This was the complete opposite.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  fantastica on 9/27/2013, 7:21 pm

i agree "abuse" is way over done. blaine is not abusive. just an ass. to be in an abusive relationship, there has to be inbalances in the relationship - one dominates the other, over-powering the other. the abuse can be physical and/or psychological, but the abuser is always in the position of control otherwise the other side would fight back and they would just be in nasty battles which will hurt both but not exactly called "abuse". this inbalance of power is never shown in klaine. in fact, if anything, kurt seems to have a bit more saying in it. blaine just sings a lot, but that's the show runner's fault.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 9/27/2013, 7:23 pm

wickedwitch wrote:I consider myself a Klaine-fan, but I hate this storyline beyond words.  I wanted them to get back together after Blaine groveled and they got to know each other as friends again.

This was the complete opposite.
I don't consider myself a Klaine fan ,although I do enjoy some Klaine Fan Fiction. If they did it the way you wanted I might have start liking canon Klaine.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  opals on 9/27/2013, 7:26 pm

wickedwitch wrote:I consider myself a Klaine-fan, but I hate this storyline beyond words.  I wanted them to get back together after Blaine groveled and they got to know each other as friends again.

This was the complete opposite.
As much as I hate Klaine now, I could have lived with it if the writers had taken their time and rebuilt the relationship one step at a time. I actually liked them together at one time, and think I could have again if they handled the story right. As it stands the engagement feels manipulative and completely unearned from a story telling perspective.

The writers turned me off from Blaine a long time ago. Now they turned me off from Kurt, too.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 9/27/2013, 7:29 pm

Buenos wrote:
Ranwing wrote:Rachel isn't going to grow up as a performer until she hits the brick wall that she can't wheedle and argue her way around. She's got to lose and it's got to be definitive and not something that gets expunged a week or two later. Because until it gets hammered home in some way that there are things that Rachel just is not capable of at this moment, she's got no reason to really work to try to improve as a performer. NYADA has been a waste for Rachel because she's been lauded as so very special at nearly every turn, so why work to improve if you're already great?
I don't get why the writers and RIB can't figure out that Rachel as a genuine underdog with actual obstacles/hurdles would garner her  more audience empathy and the ultimate end game resolution would be that much more satisfying.

Put her in an understudy role the rest of the year and just flailing would be so much more fun.  Arguing with the director, cat fights with the backstage cast, meltdowns when her talent is not recognized, it could be comic gold.
It might be comic gold, but the reality of the theater world is that if a cast member is a trouble maker (having meltdowns, arguing, fighting with other cast members) and they aren't a marquee name, they would be promptly fired and would likely have a very hard time ever getting hired for another show. Your reputation is critical in getting in getting directors to want you in their shows. They want hard workers and team players, not prima donnas who go out of their way to make things difficult backstage.

The only way this scenario would work would be if Rachel does come within a hair's breadth of actually getting fired and realizes that her behavior is not going to get her to where she wants to be. That she learns to be gracious towards her fellow performers and understands that to be part of a cast in any role (not just the starring parts) is important and that everyone working in the theater deserves her respect. It's one thing to be ambitious, and I'll agree that Rachel's drive and ambition are some of her best qualities. But she often lets her ambition get the better of her and in the end, if she can't keep a rein on her ambition, it's going to trip her up.

This was a case of Rachel biting off more than she can chew. She would be better off focusing on her studies at NYADA to hone her skills as a performer while taking small parts and looking at off Broadway productions. Building her skill sets as well as her body of experience will do far more for getting her to that Tony award than all the "I am too a star!" displays, even if we as an audience find those displays entertaining.

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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 9/27/2013, 7:35 pm

opals wrote:As much as I hate Klaine now, I could have lived with it if the writers had taken their time and rebuilt the relationship one step at a time. I actually liked them together at one time, and think I could have again if they handled the story right.  As it stands the engagement feels manipulative and completely unearned from a story telling perspective.
BINGO! We have a winner.

No matter how much I might dislike Blaine, I could have handled and even supported a reconciliation and eventually an engagement if they'd actually done the groundwork and built up to each stage, allowing time in between each step. Getting back together is only the very first step.

The writers turned me off from Blaine a long time ago. Now they turned me off from Kurt, too.
I might be disappointed with Kurt making this choice, but I actually sympathize with him rather than feel any real anger that he accepted Blaine's proposal. I understand his perspective, his fear of being alone and possibly missing out on his best chance for love as well as how pressured he must have felt during that display. I can only love Kurt and hope that either he comes to his senses, or that Blaine proves himself worthy of this second chance that he in no way deserves.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Georgette888 on 9/27/2013, 7:39 pm

Ah, but then if our dear writers had any, er, writerly instincts, we'd have have Buenos' scenario, then yours, Ranwing, and then even more comic gold as Rachel Berry tried valiantly to button her lip (background reactions would be classic) and then ranted when she got home. And then we'd have nigh chats and drunken confessions of our NYC 3 and... sigh.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Buenos on 9/27/2013, 7:46 pm

Georgette888 wrote:I think a lot of people have been seriously creeped out by Blaine's insistence they they will be together whilst never listening to Kurt's views on the matter. That combined with the way  Blaine turns his mistakes back on Kurt and blames him in TBUT and in this ep, even seemingly being a bit angry looking when Kurt brings it up, starts to ping with a lot of people. Is this meant? No. Blaine is supposed to be a 'good guy'. But shitty writing plus equally shitty acting from Darren means that it isn't a total reach to say this looks like a bit of an emotionally abusive dynamic.
Yes, I've even mentioned that Darren's bad acting and horrible line readings make Blaine sound even more petulant, whiny and childish.   Darren himself has described Blaine as an attention whore who has had it too easy.

Yet much as we don't like it, the show makes the point that Kurt and Blaine genuinely love each other, flaws and all.  It's the same thing with Rachel and Finn, the show thought it was presenting a star crossed couple whereas after awhile a lot of the fans just thought they were incompatible.  My only point is that Blaine's "actions" per the script are not  intentionally put across by the screen writers as "abusive" or intentionally harmful.  It goes back to the writers' fail with their characterizations and dynamics, but that's not just with Klaine.   Brittana had tons of problems, along with Wemma, Finchel, Artie/Brittany, etc.   Finn trying to be the "leader" would put some fans into fits of rage but the writers thought they were presenting a bumbling guy whose heart was in the right place.  The difference between Finn and Blaine is really the difference of the acting gravitas/skills  of Cory Monteith, who could somewhat sell even the worse shit (but not always ) of Finn whereas Darren can't  do that with Blaine.   Yet nobody would say that the  writers deliberately wrote the actions of Finn as being abusive and emotionally controlling.  (Ok, Ok, the "my future wife" scene comes creepily close.) Razz 

My own personal issues with Kurt and Blaine go more to the characterization of Blaine as the golden passing gay who Kurt suffers in comparison with because of how they wrote Kurt as the victim/loser in Lima during Season 3.   It's sort of the same issues I have at times with Kurt and Rachel.   It's hard to pair Kurt with either of them because the writers can't make those other two lose at anything.  I just don't think the writers are smart enough to realize how unbalanced they sometimes make these pairings.

Oh well, different courses for different horses as they say.
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Re: 5x01 "Love, Love, Love" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Georgette888 on 9/27/2013, 7:55 pm

Well, I don't think people are saying that they are writing it like it intentionally. They obviously think they are writing love's fucking young dream. But it doesnt mean that the unintended consequences of their writing is that this is what it looks like. Just like "my future wife"made Finn seem controlling and the writing of the boys makes them not the intended heroes but sexist pigs quite often and the writing of Santana's outing... You get my drift.
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