4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

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What did you think of the episode ?

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  tanita_mors on 4/26/2013, 4:45 pm

you know guys, a writer on one of ryan's former shows (i think nip/tuck) write a movie inspired by him experience making that show in which there is a satirical representation of murphy as a crazy showrunner that is only interested in shock value and from what i hear it isn't all to far from the truth. but for the life of me, i can't remember the name of the movie and i don't know who to look for it. because it shows his "flavor of the month" attitude to the fullest apparently.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Glorfindel on 4/26/2013, 6:46 pm

Ryan really is a very chaotic, big moment orientated, fickle, easily distracted and crazy showrunner. I really noticed it in this episode (just as I did in 'Michael'), although I read that others found it coherent. Well, I didn't. The NY side at least had some good flow, with some individual great scenes ('At The Ballet' was beautiful), but because it was cut in pieces with very long pauses between their scenes because of the McKinley scenes interrupting them, it still felt disjointed.

Dr. She Bloggo expressed what I felt about the pacing and writing issues very well:

"Lights Out" turned out to be a poorly organized hour of nonsense featuring unexpected reality bombs of tonal dissonance and characters doing and saying whatever necessary to prop up the Glee episode checklist. Talk of dreams? Check! The pain of being different? Check! Top-heavy emotional design and sudden reveals about character backstory? Check! Oh, and let's not forget the super-serious, potentially triggering social issue. Check, and check.

I guess, if many a Glee episode has been written with these criteria fulfilled, it would make sense that a conglomeration of them would add up to a successful endeavor. In the case of "Lights Out" -- it really didn't. Instead, the episode felt carelessly assembled, with awkward commercial breaks, and horrible scene transitions. Who on earth is ready for a jam session to "We Will Rock You" right after two characters confess that they were molested as pre-teens? Why were we meant to feel the suspense of Becky possibly revealing the truth to Figgins, only for the very next scene to feature Figgins delivering monotone announcements about electricity over the loudspeaker? And why on earth would a high school still attempt to function as usual for a whole week without power?

But not much about "Lights Out" made sense, from the design, to the theme, to the character work. Every storyline had its writing issues."
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 4/27/2013, 12:10 pm

I looks like the writers are yet again inadvertently throwing shade about the treatment of Kurt this season with the dialogue between Kurt and Isabelle.

Kurt: I thought you might’ve called me in here because… um… you’re gonna fire me.

Isabelle: What? Why would I do that?

Kurt: When you gave me this internship you said it’ll be 24/7 and ever since I got accepted to NYADA…

Isabelle: You haven’t been coming in as much. We’ve noticed.

Kurt (looking worried)

Isabelle: But… quality trumps quantity.

And doesn't that say it all. That all of the Bram and Blam screen time, duets, solos, the Jarley focus that puts the audience to sleep and the endless recycling of old storylines that had been done before by far better and more capable actors are forgettable and disposable. But Kurt's minimal screen time, few vocal performances and instants when he could pull focus by tiny acts like eating a cookie or passing a judgmental look amount to so much more.

So good on you Glee writers! We all knew what was really going on, so cheers to you for confirming it. moque
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  valkeakuulas on 4/27/2013, 1:16 pm

I feel like an outcast because I loved At the Ballet and I hate how all Blainers blame that the ballet number is to blame for their Nightwing-bullying-Becky scene ending up on the cutting room floor and noobies not getting a finished story line. Well welcome to the unfair side of the Glee that Kurtsies and Santana fans have been sitting for entire season.

The first time I actually enjoy a number whole heartedly and so many say it took away from the McKinley side of the story. WTF actually! The MK side has had at least effin' 15 hours of air time this season! Do not scream that NY got a 6 minute song! F***!

I refuse to admit ATB took anything from the McKinley side...Ryder having suddenly in the eleventh hour an important SL and that not being handled well, is not the NY sides fault.

Sorry for draging this mini rant here, but I love that I can burst out in here, makes me feel better.
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Ranwing on 4/27/2013, 1:46 pm

Justifiably, the Becky interrogation scene was likely cut because in a rare instance of good taste, the showrunners recognized that after the critical lashing Shooting Star got for making Becky responsible that the audience and critics would not take a scene of two boys interrogating a developmentally disabled girl in the dark well. Just the promo was causing outrage so cutting the scene to me was a no brainer. I get that the Blarren stans are upset that they were deprived of the chance of seeing him running about in his Nightbird costume again, but you know what? Too bad, so sad. It was an awful, poorly conceived scene and rightfully, it needed to be chopped.

As for the McKinley storyline being negatively impacted by allowing ATB to be done in its entirety, give me a break. When the McKinley storyline and characters are excluded completely from multiple episodes, then they can whine. Otherwise they can STFU.


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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  sheny on 4/27/2013, 6:04 pm

Seriously they are complaining because of one 6 minutes long scene when they had 3 MK only episodes and gets 90% of the screen time in almost all the other episodes this season. They are very stupid if they don't realize that cutting that scene was the best thing that could have happened to Blaine. What kind of jerk threatens a girl with Down Syndrome in a dark room with the help of two other morons? Saving us from suffering through another painful Blam scene was a great bonus too.
I'm tired of dealing with immature brats. Can't they just shut up and let us enjoy one of the few Kurt scenes we got this season.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Glorfindel on 4/27/2013, 6:22 pm

Ranwing wrote:As for the McKinley storyline being negatively impacted by allowing ATB to be done in its entirety, give me a break. When the McKinley storyline and characters are excluded completely from multiple episodes, then they can whine. Otherwise they can STFU.
rooots
Seriously Blarrenstans: sit down in a dark corner and be quiet.


I just realized:
Rachel (and Kurt) called Santana the most talented person they know besides themselves. That means: more talented than other people,..... like Blaine? Oops. chuut sifflou moque

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 4/27/2013, 7:16 pm

Glorfindel wrote:...


I just realized:
Rachel (and Kurt) called Santana the most talented person they know besides themselves. That means: more talented than other people,..... like Blaine? Oops. chuut sifflou moque

When Rachel said that, I wondered what Blainers thought. I bet they said that it was only Rachel opinion, but Kurt agreed with her when he did an approval gesture with his hand. Sorry, not sorry. lol

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  AnneNeville on 4/27/2013, 7:53 pm

brisallie wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:...


I just realized:
Rachel (and Kurt) called Santana the most talented person they know besides themselves. That means: more talented than other people,..... like Blaine? Oops. chuut sifflou moque

When Rachel said that, I wondered what Blainers thought. I bet they said that it was only Rachel opinion, but Kurt agreed with her when he did an approval gesture with his hand. Sorry, not sorry. lol

Someone needs to make a blog-able graphic of this scene juxtaposed with Blaine to make the point extra-clear.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  fantastica on 4/27/2013, 8:30 pm

i finally watched the kurt edit as i was traveling cross country on thursday and friday. i can't comment on everything else. little kurt is super adorable. big kurt is good as usual except there's really not enough of him.

i think glee is very very conservative and old fashioned except for gay rights. all this slut shaming for working as cage dancer/stripper etc. is way too much. it's not like they are prostitutes, and even for Brody, he needs to pay for a very expensive school and he's not lucky enough to have a rich dad, so what? as long as he uses protection there's nothing for him to be ashamed about.

that said, i do get from the conversation that kurt and rachel wanted santana to choose her jobs carefully to maximizing her chance of "achieving her dream". that's not exactly slut shaming, but sincere career advice from caring friends. i just wish they don't make it sound like slut shaming. one day i hope they do an episode where people are not just proud of their body shape or sexual orientation, but also what they choose to do - be it prostitution or street cleaning.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Divalicious on 4/27/2013, 8:46 pm

Not dissing on Lauren, but she is just an adequate actor. Paired with another just adequate actor in Darren, perhaps the interrogation scene just came off as lame, and they didn't want Blaine looking badder than he usually does. Although I do think there is merit in Becky being thrown under the bus with the gun thing. Plus, we already had Sue in a wonderful scene supporting Becky, and did we really need to drag any more into the Lima side? Blarren stans do need to STFU, I mean really, more than ANYONE else this season he has been granted piles more than anyone else. Songs, interactions with characters we only wished for Kurt, he just walks into them. Class presidency, shit, respect alone that we wished for Kurt at McKinley is just put on a silver platter and teleported in front of his face, and they have the sheer audacity to complain that he isn't getting enough!!!

I found the episode mostly boring. Kurt goes from sexy hot to just plain adorable in 3 seconds flat, how does he do that. He also takes Santana from being a caricature of a snarky bitch character and brings a bit of charm to her. I do wish they would change Santana's outfits, though, that dress at the beginning looked like a shirt she just pulled down to her butt, and while her butt is very nice, I would like it to remain covered. Maybe they felt there should be equal dwell time on butts, because they showed Blaine's more than enough.

Heh, it was nice that Blaine was forgotten in the most talented person explanation. I also loved that while Rachel puts Kurt on the same level as her, Santana still is just below. My Kurtsie heart is liking Hummelberry in this episode. Too bad they don't keep them as partners, rather than Kurt being her constant prop usually, it's much nicer.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Delight on 4/28/2013, 2:01 am

sheny wrote:
The Backlot (AfterElton) Glee Recap

Previously on Glee, Santana finally moved to New York with Kurt and Rachel, and the family they made there — of one gay lady and one straight lady and one gay man and two boyfriend pillows and one girlfriend pillow — was exactly the kind of urban home situation that makes our hearts grow like the Grinch in the presence of Cindy Lou Who, so we were like, “Oh, finally!” And Glee was all, “So what you’re saying is you want to see more Marley and Kitty and Ryder and Jake?” And were like, “No.” And Glee was like, “So yes?” And we were all, “No, is what we said!” And Glee was all, “But what you meant was yes?” And we were like, “No!” And Glee was like, “Fuck you, too bad, here’s Ryder getting Catfished for 600 hours.”
....

That is so apt a description of what the show runners on Glee are doing to us.

I find that my tolerance for Glee had reached a point where not even the few glimpses of cute Kurt scenes are enough to tip the experience of watching the show from 'bored out of my mind' to 'worth my time'.

I wish I could like this episode more, given that there are more NYC scenes and song (note the singular). It's good to get confirmation that Kurt is still working in Vogue.com, never mind that we hardly see any of his life there; and the only time that SL of Kurt's would be explored is when RM wants SJP to sing another song. However, there is no denying that the whole NYC storyline in the episode is dedicated to Santana and answering the 'what the heck is she doing in NYC?' question. Santana's aspirations to become a ballerina came out of left field, in typical Glee fashion.

As for the 'At the Ballet' performance, I found it to be a bit too long for something that is happening in fantasy. Nice harmonies (though I don't think Naya's voice is suited for this Broadway song) and they all look glamorous on stage and all; but ultimately it meant little because the whole performance is happening inside Santana's brain (or maybe even Isabelle's, in this communal fantasy mind-meld thing they've got going). Oh, and it appears that the only Kurt solo lines in that 6-minute song seem to be 'It wasn't paradise', 'Every prince has got to have his swan' and 'I would love to'. I cherish every single one of them, but I'm tired of trying to sate my hunger with crumbs.

Let's see, what else about the episode had bugged me? Oh yes, Artie. I like his verses in 'We Will Rock You' (Your voice is criminally underused on this show, Kevin), but as a character, he is close to becoming un-salvageable. His very obnoxious preoccupation with his handphone during Ryder's performance. His temper tantrum on the piano that felt very fake and forced. His insensitive reaction to Ryder's childhood molestation confession (though Sam shares some blame too, in this).

Second thing that bugged me? Too many close ups of Blarren's anatomy in Sue's gym class. Why don't they just give the audience a full frontal of Darren/Blaine and be done with it?

The only parts of the McKinley storyline that seemed like not a complete waste of time is the Kitty/Ryder bonding at Breadstix, and the Sue/Becky scene on the bleachers. Oh, and Jane sounds good in her solo, even if the song and performance felt shoehorned in.

valkeakuulas wrote:I'm just ashtonished that some people out there apparently think that Blaine wasn't checking that guy out. For me Blaine is that type of guy that will always have wandering eyes and when he has a weak moment he might go for it, even if he is in a relationship. (And I don't think that is Blaine bashing from me, but just a statement from what I've seen: he likes to look and sometimes act on those feelings aroused from looking. Perfect example of some males in our homo sapiens species.)

I thought Blaine was falling in love with Ryder during the 'Everybody Hurts' performance. And such a development would be completely believable too, given Blaine's history and character.
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Glorfindel on 4/28/2013, 9:37 am

Delight wrote: Oh, and it appears that the only Kurt solo lines in that 6-minute song seem to be 'It wasn't paradise', 'Every prince has got to have his swan' and 'I would love to'. I cherish every single one of them, but I'm tired of trying to sate my hunger with crumbs.
Did anyone else see any foreshadowing of Blaine's proposal in these lines?
- 'It wasn't paradise' = Blaine cheating: it wasn't paradise, but it was home.
- 'Every prince has got to have his swan' = Klaine, and guess who's the prince and who's the swan (ugly duckling to 'Swan Song' anyone?).
- 'I would love to' = I guess this is obvious: "Yes, Blaine, I would love for you to propose to me."

I mean, the only reason why this probably was not foreshadowing is that I don't think these writers are capable of foreshadowing, but else.....


I thought Blaine was falling in love with Ryder during the 'Everybody Hurts' performance. And such a development would be completely believable too, given Blaine's history and character.
LMAO. ptdr
Yes, Blaine was practically breathing in Ryder's face during that performance, he was sitting so close to him.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Lottie2303 on 4/28/2013, 10:14 am

We should create a RIP Kurt Hummel thread once the final aired and tell each other why and how much we loved the character. Just remind us of the positive sides and experiences. Will be easier to let him go, knowing the writers his characters will be even more assassinated for 2 more seasons.
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 4/28/2013, 10:18 am

Lottie2303 wrote:We should create a RIP Kurt Hummel thread once the final aired and tell each other why and how much we loved the character. Just remind us of the positive sides and experiences. Will be easier to let him go, knowing the writers his characters will be even more assassinated for 2 more seasons.

Agree 100%.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  tanita_mors on 4/28/2013, 11:33 am

i'm all for that idea IF blaine proposes and kurt says YES. any other situation lends itself further development and god knows what will happen in season 5. but as i said before, the only acceptable proposal from blaine for me would be the one after several years of actual dating without anymore cheating and if kurt is ready for it and not strong armed by blaine or someone else (as much as i hate to admit it, everybody and their mother knows those two are end game - GOD I HATE RIB Mad ). everything other that that, i'm officially out.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Glorfindel on 4/28/2013, 12:03 pm

The live “American Idol” Results Show on Fox finished second overall from 8-9 p.m., with an 8.0/13 in the overnights. Year-to-year, that was down by 25 percent (versus a 10.6/17 on 4/26/12). Next was just renewed “Glee,” which slipped to a distant third with a 3.3/ 5 at 9 p.m. Comparably, “Glee” was 20 percent below year year-ago occupant “Touch” (4.1/ 6 on 4/26/12), which benefited out of the then stronger “Idol” lead-in support. And the retention out of the 8:30 p.m. portion of “Idol” (8.5/14) was a mere 39 percent. That said, was it really necessary to renew fading “Glee” for two more seasons?
x
The ratings were bad: FOX Glee 1.8 5 5.24m moque

Fox – Glee
9.00PM: Viewers: 5.56 million (#3), A18-49: 1.8/ 5 (#3)

Fox – Glee
9.30PM: Viewers: 4.92 million (#3), A18-49: 1.7/ 5 (#3)


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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  Lottie2303 on 4/28/2013, 12:04 pm

Yep, lets do that threat if RIB utterly destroys Kurt. This board will be toxic for a while, so one positive threat would be nice. A reminder of our favorite scenes, outfits, moments etc. An eulogy for a character that isn't even really dead but just as might as well will be.

I just pray we actually never need one...
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  AnneNeville on 4/28/2013, 12:07 pm

I think part of the issue is the fact that Fox doesn't have much else on its slate to renew or cancel. They have to have *something* to show in the fall. What else of theirs did they renew? Especially of their new shows. The Following, right? I don't have cable, so I don't really know which shows did well.

I do know that the "death rate" of shows in their first year seems to be very high. Renewing Glee may be a better bet than canceling it (along with the other cancelled shows) and gambling on something new.

Even with the bad ratings.

I mean--look at Made in Jersey (last fall, not on Fox). Cancelled after two episodes aired. They stopped production, and burned the other six or so filmed episodes off on Saturday night. (Like Smash is doing).

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 4/28/2013, 12:28 pm

Glorfindel wrote:
Did anyone else see any foreshadowing of Blaine's proposal in these lines?
- 'It wasn't paradise' = Blaine cheating: it wasn't paradise, but it was home.
- 'Every prince has got to have his swan' = Klaine, and guess who's the prince and who's the swan (ugly duckling to 'Swan Song' anyone?).
- 'I would love to' = I guess this is obvious: "Yes, Blaine, I would love for you to propose to me."

I mean, the only reason why this probably was not foreshadowing is that I don't think these writers are capable of foreshadowing, but else.....

...

This's a good analyse Marie. But as you said yourself, the writers are incapable to foreshadow a scene, actually they have no idea what's coming in next episode until they have to shoot that episode.

And after read some comments, it seems Fox renewed Glee because is the only thing they have, besides of the Following? They should work more in creating tv shows that could last more than a season.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  AnneNeville on 4/28/2013, 12:58 pm

brisallie wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:
Did anyone else see any foreshadowing of Blaine's proposal in these lines?
- 'It wasn't paradise' = Blaine cheating: it wasn't paradise, but it was home.
- 'Every prince has got to have his swan' = Klaine, and guess who's the prince and who's the swan (ugly duckling to 'Swan Song' anyone?).
- 'I would love to' = I guess this is obvious: "Yes, Blaine, I would love for you to propose to me."

I mean, the only reason why this probably was not foreshadowing is that I don't think these writers are capable of foreshadowing, but else.....

...

This's a good analyse Marie. But as you said yourself, the writers are incapable to foreshadow a scene, actually they have no idea what's coming in next episode until they have to shoot that episode.

The other option, though, is that there were very few lines they could give to Kurt because of his gender--and those were the three that worked. Funny how when I heard Kurt sing "every prince ..." I imagined him not as the swan, but as the prince--the one who does the CHOOSING. blushh I wish.

brisallie wrote:
And after read some comments, it seems Fox renewed Glee because is the only thing they have, besides of the Following? They should work more in creating tv shows that could last more than a season.

I don't think that's the only reason they renewed it. I am sure they'd have renewed it for at least long enough to get to whatever episode mark they need for syndication (that way they can keep making money on it later, even if it's just rerunning the first three seasons!). But another thing is that they have to have a fall lineup that will bring in advertising money, and a show that already has however-many-million viewers is a cushion.

Every new show is a major risk--a lot of money gets poured into getting a show started, and every new show (even when well-done) has a good chance of "not catching on" (even if it is well done).

666 Park Avenue was one such new show. It was getting mediocre ratings but fans were enthusiastic. Then Hurricane Sandy came: '666 Park Avenue' sets heavily damaged by Hurricane Sandy. The network had to decide whether to spend the money to salvage the sets. Do they want to invest another, say, $13 million in case the show catches on?

They didn't.

Honestly, I'm shocked that 666 Park Avenue was the only show that had sets and equipment destroyed during that hurricane. Steiner Studios, one of the major production sites here, is in the Brooklyn Navy Yard (it was fine). Chelsea Studios (SVU) is right on the waterfront in Manhattan. Many of the other studios are in warehouse-districts in Brooklyn (though I guess Greenpoint is far enough from the waterfront not to have suffered from the surge).

Anyway, I agree that more energy should go into making good shows, but you don't always know if a show will "work" until all the parts come together. Actors, set, writers, directors. With Glee, they already have all those pieces--and those pieces kind of still work together, kind of--plus an audience. Until Glee starts losing money with no hope of recouping it, I would think they'd balk at replacing it with something new. Financially, it doesn't make sense.

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 4/28/2013, 1:08 pm

You mentioned something related to syndication, and probably isn't the same, but once I read somewhere else that networks like FOX need to reach the 100 episodes to be able to transmit their series on national/public TV? Is true?

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  AnneNeville on 4/28/2013, 1:13 pm

brisallie wrote:You mentioned something related to syndication, and probably isn't the same, but once I read somewhere else that networks like FOX need to reach the 100 episodes to be able to transmit their series on national/public TV? Is true?

Yes, it's the 100th episode, I believe, that they need to hit. I'm not up on the details of how TV works, because most of my life I haven't even HAD a TV that worked (nor have I watched much), so I don't really understand the way reruns and syndication, etc, work. Perhaps someone who knows the business end of television can speak up?

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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  brisallie on 4/28/2013, 1:20 pm

AnneNeville wrote:
brisallie wrote:You mentioned something related to syndication, and probably isn't the same, but once I read somewhere else that networks like FOX need to reach the 100 episodes to be able to transmit their series on national/public TV? Is true?

Yes, it's the 100th episode, I believe, that they need to hit. I'm not up on the details of how TV works, because most of my life I haven't even HAD a TV that worked (nor have I watched much).

Thanks for the explanation. And I asked you this, because it was pointed as one of the reasons why Fox renewed Glee. If my calculus is right, 100th episode is usually hit it on season five.

P.S Do you usually don't watch much TV? Is fine. I met someone who doesn't watch TV at all.

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I currently obsessed with this
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

Post  ChrisColferFan1 on 4/28/2013, 2:10 pm

Lottie2303 wrote:Yep, lets do that threat if RIB utterly destroys Kurt. This board will be toxic for a while, so one positive threat would be nice. A reminder of our favorite scenes, outfits, moments etc. An eulogy for a character that isn't even really dead but just as might as well will be.

I just pray we actually never need one...


I agree.

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Both Chris C & Max A are great actors. Hope they work together again someday.

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Really enjoyed Old Dog New Tricks. The Best Glee episode in a long time.
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Re: 4x20 "Lights Out" Watch & Discussion thread

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