Re: 3x17 "Dance with Somebody" Watch & Discussion thread

[Glorfindel]

They put 'I Have Nothing' up on GleeOnFox !

I feel like this is a cause for celebration, but I'm not sure why...

I don't know much about this practice of putting a song performance up on GleeOnFox. What is the significance of this? Do they only select one song to be put on the website for each episode?

They have put up 'Wanna Dance With Somebody', 'So Emotional' and 'INRBIO' up too. so it's not just one song per episode. But the fact that they put a Kurt song up is rare.

So it's a cause of careful celebration.

[Buenos]

I thought it was revealing how Kurt has some issues/baggage with Blaine always getting praise/gushing /attention from everyone else in any room. Kurt may not want to admit it yet, but I suspect on one level he wants to get to New York to spread his wings with Blaine not around all the time.

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

[brisallie]

Question (to all of you): would you look at your boyfriend's phone messages if it was buzzing and he was not in the room?

I haven't problem with the cellphone either, because it was there and the messages were sending one to another, actually I've done that before but with my friends, because there're not in the room and as I said before the box messages don't stop making noise so I take it, is like an instictive movement more than a rational one, I don't even think that I shouldn't I'm check my friend messages because they have gave me the truth to do it if not tell me "I don't want you to read my messages". I think is the same with the couples,but depending on how big is the trust between them if one of them says "Please don't see my messages" the other one could react aggresively or peacefully.To sum up I'd look if he's not around but I don't say anything at the moment.

They put 'I Have Nothing' up on GleeOnFox !

Yes?! That's great!!!

[tanita_mors]

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

That is the saddest thing Buenos. With Kurt and Blaine they have a very unusual situation where both members are fighting for the same spot and want the same thing. They should be in constant competition and that would have created glorious tension in their relationship and so much material for exploration and development. But they aren't because the first moment when it seamed we were going to get that conflict a million Klaine fans screamed - Kurt is so selfish and mean and how can he be against Blaine being Tony. They saw that the shippers weren't willing to handle that storyline over the stability of their wonderful Klaine and Kurt pretty much defaulted after that. He has been in Blaine's shadow ever since. THis pretty much fucked all us Kurtsies. Only reason Kurt gets any spotlight with NYADA is because Blaine isn't going to NYADA this year.

[Buenos]

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

That is the saddest thing Buenos. With Kurt and Blaine they have a very unusual situation where both members are fighting for the same spot and want the same thing. They should be in constant competition and that would have created glorious tension in their relationship and so much material for exploration and development. But they aren't because the first moment when it seamed we were going to get that conflict a million Klaine fans screamed - Kurt is so selfish and mean and how can he be against Blaine being Tony. They saw that the shippers weren't willing to handle that storyline over the stability of their wonderful Klaine and Kurt pretty much defaulted after that. He has been in Blaine's shadow ever since. THis pretty much fucked all us Kurtsies. Only reason Kurt gets any spotlight with NYADA is because Blaine isn't going to NYADA this year.

There are several things going on at the same time.

The show wanted to establish from his transition to McKinley that Blaine was going to be considered as much a talented golden boy "star" the way he was at Dalton. Only a Junior, in the year of Seniors he participated in both Sectionals and Regionals more than Kurt.

Per canon, Kurt has shown he wants competition leads/solos from day one. The irony is that both Mercedes and Santana have voiced their frustration about being not spotlighted and their situation was "corrected" this year but not Kurt. Now it's worse for Kurt because he can't *fight* for leads/solos because he then appears petty/jealous of his boyfriend getting attention. And the fact that Blaine *seems* oblivious and non ambitious (as in never having to fight for anything) simply pours salt in the wounds.

So putting all of those things together doesn't gel very well, it leaves a bad aftertaste.

Though in all fairness, I don't think the PTB are all that invested in Kurt ever having competition/solo/leads at Sectionals/Regionals/Nationals even if Blaine wasn't around. Yet since it's his boyfriend the show makes the comparison inevitable..(which is what annoyed me about "I am Unicorn"). My spin is that they think that since Chris is the best actor of the young group , giving him story lines and drama is the main focus for him, whereas the others *need* lead/solos to give some focus to them. It's not like they expect Amber to really pull her acting weight, for example. Right or wrong, that seems to be how they treat Kurt/Chris. As the one character they can afford to "not" give songs and yet still remain in focus because he is the dramatic anchor of the younger actors.

[tanita_mors]

I see that, but the biggest problem I have had this season and last that in episodes that Kurt has a big storyline or a lot of screen time, he doesn't get that solo/duet/musical number or he gets the one that is all wrong for him while someone else get the one he should have sung.

No music to elevate his part in The First Time, in Michel he should have been on Bad, Smooth Criminal even Scream (more so the Mike). And all this is from a pure plot relevance. Why was Blaine singing Cough Syrup in OMY - was it at all relevant to him.

As I said before, I don't need a Kurt solo in every episode but there must be a number in the ones he has the center stage. Episodes like Never Been Kissed, Silly Love Songs, Blame It On The Alcohol, Prom Queen, The First Time, maybe even in I Kissed A Girl with that election, On My Way would have been even better for it.

But I do agree that RIB is resting too much of their drama and acting on Chris. He is there to act and possibly bring them awards as well as more mature audience, Darren is there to sing and bring in the fan girls and boys. I think they are afraid to go out of their comfort zone, or simply believe that you don't fix what ain't broken. It may seam broken to us, but that is not how everyone sees it. There are people who would wish nothing more that Chris never sang a single note on this show.

[Buenos]

I see that, but the biggest problem I have had this season and last that in episodes that Kurt has a big storyline or a lot of screen time, he doesn't get that solo/duet/musical number or he gets the one that is all wrong for him while someone else get the one he should have sung.

.

This I totally agree with. Even when it makes narrative sense for Kurt to sing, he doesn't. Forget random numbers, he doesn't even sing when it makes sense for this character per the plot. The worst was the Michael Jackson episode..he got stuck with the throwaway rat song...WTF??

[Jellyrolls]

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

That is the saddest thing Buenos. With Kurt and Blaine they have a very unusual situation where both members are fighting for the same spot and want the same thing. They should be in constant competition and that would have created glorious tension in their relationship and so much material for exploration and development. But they aren't because the first moment when it seamed we were going to get that conflict a million Klaine fans screamed - Kurt is so selfish and mean and how can he be against Blaine being Tony. They saw that the shippers weren't willing to handle that storyline over the stability of their wonderful Klaine and Kurt pretty much defaulted after that. He has been in Blaine's shadow ever since. THis pretty much fucked all us Kurtsies. Only reason Kurt gets any spotlight with NYADA is because Blaine isn't going to NYADA this year.

There are several things going on at the same time.

The show wanted to establish from his transition to McKinley that Blaine was going to be considered as much a talented golden boy "star" the way he was at Dalton. Only a Junior, in the year of Seniors he participated in both Sectionals and Regionals more than Kurt.

Per canon, Kurt has shown he wants competition leads/solos from day one. The irony is that both Mercedes and Santana have voiced their frustration about being not spotlighted and their situation was "corrected" this year but not Kurt. Now it's worse for Kurt because he can't *fight* for leads/solos because he then appears petty/jealous of his boyfriend getting attention. And the fact that Blaine *seems* oblivious and non ambitious (as in never having to fight for anything) simply pours salt in the wounds.

So putting all of those things together doesn't gel very well, it leaves a bad aftertaste.

Though in all fairness, I don't think the PTB are all that invested in Kurt ever having competition/solo/leads at Sectionals/Regionals/Nationals even if Blaine wasn't around. Yet since it's his boyfriend the show makes the comparison inevitable..(which is what annoyed me about "I am Unicorn"). My spin is that they think that since Chris is the best actor of the young group , giving him story lines and drama is the main focus for him, whereas the others *need* lead/solos to give some focus to them. It's not like they expect Amber to really pull her acting weight, for example. Right or wrong, that seems to be how they treat Kurt/Chris. As the one character they can afford to "not" give songs and yet still remain in focus because he is the dramatic anchor of the younger actors.

Great post, Buenos.

Regarding the bolded, I do agree that RIB aren't erally invested in Kurt getting competion solos leads because they have bigger more important stories to tell with Kurt. And Chris, without a doubt, is the strongest actor of the kids (I'm even going to be bold and say that he is the strongest actor on the show). Chris is almost always right in the middle of every single important story arc because he has the talent to deliver the storylines with power and emotion that no other actor on the show can.

As much as I would love to hear Kurt/Chris sing more, at the same time, I look forward to them and enjoy them more. Every single one of his solos, and most of his duets have played a significant role in telling Kurt's story, and developing his character. You can't say that about any other character on the show--not Rachel, not Santana, not Mercedes, and certainly not Blaine. Every single one of them is significant and meaningful.

I guess I'm just grateful that I love the actor on the show who doesn't need to be given a boatload of songs to tell his story. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wouldn't give up the Burt scenes or the Karofsky storylines for more songs for Kurt. And the more I think about it, I am also grateful that Klaine is a nothing relationship instead of wasting Chris' valuable screentime on useless lame relationship drama. It's in the acting, not the songs, that we truly get to know Kurt and why he is the best developed character on the show.

[Jellyrolls]

I see that, but the biggest problem I have had this season and last that in episodes that Kurt has a big storyline or a lot of screen time, he doesn't get that solo/duet/musical number or he gets the one that is all wrong for him while someone else get the one he should have sung.

.

This I totally agree with. Even when it makes narrative sense for Kurt to sing, he doesn't. Forget random numbers, he doesn't even sing when it makes sense for this character per the plot. The worst was the Michael Jackson episode..he got stuck with the throwaway rat song...WTF??

Regarding the throwaway rat song, at the very least, it entertained the hell out of me that Kurt sang a song about a rat to his boyfriend. Blaine is a rat.

[sahhar]

I see that, but the biggest problem I have had this season and last that in episodes that Kurt has a big storyline or a lot of screen time, he doesn't get that solo/duet/musical number or he gets the one that is all wrong for him while someone else get the one he should have sung.

.

This I totally agree with. Even when it makes narrative sense for Kurt to sing, he doesn't. Forget random numbers, he doesn't even sing when it makes sense for this character per the plot. The worst was the Michael Jackson episode..he got stuck with the throwaway rat song...WTF??

Regarding the throwaway rat song, at the very least, it entertained the hell out of me that Kurt sang a song about a rat to his boyfriend. Blaine is a rat.

[Glorfindel]

I thought it was revealing how Kurt has some issues/baggage with Blaine always getting praise/gushing /attention from everyone else in any room. Kurt may not want to admit it yet, but I suspect on one level he wants to get to New York to spread his wings with Blaine not around all the time.

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

It would be if RIB was interested in it, but they are not.

Interesting dynamics between them, no?

That is the saddest thing Buenos. With Kurt and Blaine they have a very unusual situation where both members are fighting for the same spot and want the same thing. They should be in constant competition and that would have created glorious tension in their relationship and so much material for exploration and development. But they aren't because the first moment when it seamed we were going to get that conflict a million Klaine fans screamed - Kurt is so selfish and mean and how can he be against Blaine being Tony. They saw that the shippers weren't willing to handle that storyline over the stability of their wonderful Klaine and Kurt pretty much defaulted after that. He has been in Blaine's shadow ever since. THis pretty much fucked all us Kurtsies. Only reason Kurt gets any spotlight with NYADA is because Blaine isn't going to NYADA this year.

Just wait till season 5, if there is one. Blaine will come to New York (and I even heard rumors he wants to go to NYADA as well), and this will start all over again.
Kurt will be allowed one year of snarking freedom (without dating, because I think they will go for long distance with Klaine), while Blaine sings a useless song in the choir room every episode, but not bothering/tampering with Kurt's storylines with the stupid ways they try to shoe-horn Blaine solos in (like they do now).
Then Blaine will come to New York, and Kurt will sit on a stool listening to his alpha gay again.

Unless next year other shiny toys take over, of course.

[Buenos]

Personally I think season 4 will be the McKinley choir room as now Blaine and the Pips , with ironically non plot related random choir numbers featuring Blaine while the rest of the kids are struggling/working/performing in NY. It actually makes things easier, because there was no plot device needed to give the Warblers a number other than to showcase Blaine so that in essence McKinley will be the new Dalton, with Tina and Kevin being the backup singers.

It could work.

[tanita_mors]

Personally I think season 4 will be the McKinley choir room as now Blaine and the Pips , with ironically non plot related random choir numbers featuring Blaine while the rest of the kids are struggling/working/performing in NY. It actually makes things easier, because there was no plot device needed to give the Warblers a number other than to showcase Blaine so that in essence McKinley will be the new Dalton, with Tina and Kevin being the backup singers.

It could work.

Totally.
Especially if the choir room kids are down with being just the musical entertainment.
Which I doubt.

[fantastica]

but they also have to give their adult teachers storylines. Matt Morrison is still an honorary male lead. it seems that his weeding will be held in November during the november rating sweep so they can bring back all the "graduates" in order to have a big celeratory and emotional reunion and boost the ratings. my gut feeling is that they are going w/ the mckingley centric approach w graduates as periodic guests. it's the only way to preserve the glee format but they can definitely kiss my ass goodbye for non-kurt episodes.

lately my husband has been getting bored w glee and he's more interested in Smash. Note that i mostly talk about my feelings about thi sshow online w/ you guys because hubby and I watch glee for different reasons aside from enjoying some of hte musical spectacles. Although he knows chris is my fav he usually doesn't comment on guys but only interested in girls. lately though he's been saying again and again how he was sick and tired of this blaine guy and he hated that brother episode. I see him dropping this show pretty soon, and he's trying to get me to watch Smash which I haven't watched yet and not sure if I will. my hubby is the GA (general audience, not the troll) type of guy - not at all divested in the fandom. I see more and more GA leaving the show later this season and next, especially adults.

this show has lost its soul. it will never be the same. no amount of new talents can save its fate. Its freshness has evaporated and while it's possible for RM to find a new hottie as his personal fav I doubt any can overwhelm the audience anymore. the adult GA audience are sick and tired. what's sustaining it is its rabid fans.

[mellama]

He's a cutie, IMO. I thought he was adorable as Chandler. To me, he's least attractive when he's trying to look like Justin Bieber.

Question (to all of you): would you look at your boyfriend's phone messages if it was buzzing and he was not in the room?

I wouldn't. (look at my girlfriend's phone) I wouldn't look at anyone else's phone unless they asked me to, no matter what the relationship. But I wouldn't open someone else's mail, either. It's important to define boundaries like that in a relationship.

I also wouldn't publicly sing a song to bring focus to relationship problems. But it seems to be a common thing in Glee. ( Loved Kurt's reaction shots while Blaine was singing! I was so glad he wasn't buying the guilt trip.)

It's just so clear to me that both were in the wrong about some things. IRL, if a couple wants to resolve their issues, they have to get past who's "more" wrong to get to how to solve the problem. In Glee, the relationship issues become entangled with who can pull off how much acting, who's going to bring ratings, where they want the SL to move in the future, etc. So the rightness or wrongness of the behavior becomes almost irrelevant, except as it gets fans steamed up and generating buzz, I guess.


My understanding of the Alpha Gay thing is that there's quite a hierarchy in the gay bar /party scene. The Alpha is the type of guy that most of the others want, like Brian Kinney in QAF. He also was a gay who could easily pass if he wanted to. (Interestingly enough, the actor, Gale Harold, is straight, just like Darren. He also was ~ and still is ~ considered very desirable by gay men, as indicated in After Elton, Out, etc. type media polls. There the difference ends. Harold is an excellent actor and was totally believable as a gay man.) My point is that there seems to be a bias for macho, gender normative type men, unfair and prejudiced as it is, in gay culture, perpetuated by gay men themselves. So I don't see the portrayals as unfair to Kurt per se. Instead, I see society as unfair to Kurt types. If this show makes people aware of those biases and angry about them, I think that's a good thing. Maybe it will help to change them.

Personally I think season 4 will be the McKinley choir room as now Blaine and the Pips , with ironically non plot related random choir numbers featuring Blaine while the rest of the kids are struggling/working/performing in NY. It actually makes things easier, because there was no plot device needed to give the Warblers a number other than to showcase Blaine so that in essence McKinley will be the new Dalton, with Tina and Kevin being the backup singers.

It could work.

I would love this, so long as the NY crew gets to sing as well. I appreciate all the wonderful drama scenes Chris gets. He is a fabulous actor. But I love his voice. I'm especially treasuring his vocal performances, because I know he isn't likely to create an album. It's doubly frustrating to me when they give the songs to everyone else because I feel like I'm seeing precious opportunity missed and time running out.

but they also have to give their adult teachers storylines. Matt Morrison is still an honorary male lead. it seems that his weeding will be held in November during the november rating sweep so they can bring back all the "graduates" in order to have a big celeratory and emotional reunion and boost the ratings. my gut feeling is that they are going w/ the mckingley centric approach w graduates as periodic guests. it's the only way to preserve the glee format but they can definitely kiss my ass goodbye for non-kurt episodes.

lately my husband has been getting bored w glee and he's more interested in Smash. Note that i mostly talk about my feelings about thi sshow online w/ you guys because hubby and I watch glee for different reasons aside from enjoying some of hte musical spectacles. Although he knows chris is my fav he usually doesn't comment on guys but only interested in girls. lately though he's been saying again and again how he was sick and tired of this blaine guy and he hated that brother episode. I see him dropping this show pretty soon, and he's trying to get me to watch Smash which I haven't watched yet and not sure if I will. my hubby is the GA (general audience, not the troll) type of guy - not at all divested in the fandom. I see more and more GA leaving the show later this season and next, especially adults.

this show has lost its soul. it will never be the same. no amount of new talents can save its fate. Its freshness has evaporated and while it's possible for RM to find a new hottie as his personal fav I doubt any can overwhelm the audience anymore. the adult GA audience are sick and tired. what's sustaining it is its rabid fans.

I like Smash, too. But it shows on Mon. night, while Glee shows on Tues. I watch both shows and see no reason why one has to eclipse the other. I guess I'm one of Glee's rabid fans. As long as Kurt is on it, I'll be watching, I'm pretty sure.

[fantastica]

Question (to all of you): would you look at your boyfriend's phone messages if it was buzzing and he was not in the room?

I would not. i also would hate it if someone else does it. that said, i think most people probably would, not intentionally searching for "evidence", but accidentally discover/reading something.

[Buenos]

I think where it fails is that Blaine is being showed as a "superstar" as opposed to Kurt.

Now while Kurt is arguably too "effeminate" for some, the problem is that Chris Colfer as a performer/actor is magnetic and a "star" so that the plot clashes with what the viewer think in the case of the Kurt fans.

In a way, while I like Cory Monteith/Finn, it was hard for many to swallow that the narrative push of Glee in season 1 was that Cory was the best male singer in the group. I think Cory is an underrated singer but even to me it stretched the imagination too much to imagine him being so much better than Puck, Kurt, Artie , etc.

So where Blaine as the "alpha gay" loses people isn't so much as him being so masculine or manly, (because Blaine is in some ways more campy and girly than Kurt) but in the perception that he is this incredibly talented performer in the Rachel "stratosphere." So the show works hard to compensate for his shortcomings and limitations in singing in order to perpetuate this persona for Blaine. However since many Kurt fans think Kurt is a more magnetic performer what the show tries to push on us creates resentment and disbelief. Not a dig on Darren, because he has his fans, but just trying to explain why what the show "attempts" doesn't work with some of us.

So Kurt calling Blaine the "alpha gay" who Kurt is always in his shadow makes for strange dynamics.

[valkeakuulas]

I've been thinking this effeminate generalization longer than Glee has excisted because it was related to my studies and what makes me severely annoyed in life general and sometimes in Glee is the fact that wether you're a man behaving more effeminate or a woman behaving expressively feminine it's considered as a negative or downgrading. Then masculine behaviour in men and women (in some context, but not always) is considered admirable and/or brave. I see this as a general society issue concerning equality and gender limitations in a heteronormative society.

I also feel US tv is funny in this retrospect, the most effeminate men and masculine female characters come from american television, even more than movies, yet giving them space to act on that personality trait is seen as an impossibility because advertizing and commercial pressures. Like in Glee the horrendous imbalance of showing physical sides of same-sex relationships.

In my definition Kurt isn't really that effeminate but more flamboyant and emotionally expressive, like someone here already has pointed out. His inequality in the show relates IMO to his being "obviously" gay and not having the need to "pass" as a straight guy, at which Blaine is not "excelling" that well either. Why this is an issue at all is just a sign of society which is still putting labels and forming it's opinions on what is considered "normal" and normative.

What I think I was going for was that I'm quite proud of Glee of creating a character like Kurt and in some points Blaine who despite huge conservative pressure are allowed to be themselves. OK, that sounded a bit like a PSA but I feel this show is subtley been doing that for quite a while. (Sometimes more successfully and also with less success.) The huge success in that front in my mind is the long arc of Kurt and Finns storylines, which got a lot of crap in the Season 1 for Kurt's "predatory" behaviour which I completly did not understand or see.

And I'm so glad that this issue of "gayness" was brought up in the last episode but like so many times in Glee it was left hanging in the air. But even then I saw Kurts line of Blaine being alpha-gay more relating to Kurts status as a lesser member of the group after Blaine took over than a sexual orientation remark, as was also pointed out here before me. I still don't know why it has to be alpha-GAY and not just MALE...POINTING to get the message through? Has the whole writing team taken advise from Cooper?

Anyway, sorry for babbling. This episode has left me in tatters.

[mellama]

I think where it fails is that Blaine is being showed as a "superstar" as opposed to Kurt.

Now while Kurt is arguably too "effeminate" for some, the problem is that Chris Colfer as a performer/actor is magnetic and a "star" so that the plot clashes with what the viewer think in the case of the Kurt fans.

In a way, while I like Cory Monteith/Finn, it was hard for many to swallow that the narrative push of Glee in season 1 was that Cory was the best male singer in the group. I think Cory is an underrated singer but even to me it stretched the imagination too much to imagine him being so much better than Puck, Kurt, Artie , etc.

So where Blaine as the "alpha gay" loses people isn't so much as him being so masculine or manly, (because Blaine is in some ways more campy and girly than Kurt) but in the perception that he is this incredibly talented performer in the Rachel "stratosphere." So the show works hard to compensate for his shortcomings and limitations in singing in order to perpetuate this persona for Blaine. However since many Kurt fans think Kurt is a more magnetic performer what the show tries to push on us creates resentment and disbelief. Not a dig on Darren, because he has his fans, but just trying to explain why what the show "attempts" doesn't work with some of us.

So Kurt calling Blaine the "alpha gay" who Kurt is always in his shadow makes for strange dynamics.

Outstanding points. That's absolutely where the dissonance is for me. The talents and qualities of the actors don't match up with the talents and qualities of the characters. They can make attractive actors look dorky and less attractive. A good singer can fake singing badly. But they can't make a clumsy dancer look really graceful, nor can they make him or her a better singer. They need to adjust canon to match the actors' abilities, like they did with Finn and dancing.

Speaking of Darren's campy portrayal: I find it almost offensive sometimes. It almost feels like he's mocking Kurt. It's a cheap way to portray gay, but not necessary with a good actor. I again refer to the actors, both gay and straight, who portrayed gay men in QAF. A couple were the Alpha gay type, a couple were campy, most were neither. Pretty much like RL.

[fantastica]

you guys write great posts!

[sahhar]

I think where it fails is that Blaine is being showed as a "superstar" as opposed to Kurt.

Now while Kurt is arguably too "effeminate" for some, the problem is that Chris Colfer as a performer/actor is magnetic and a "star" so that the plot clashes with what the viewer think in the case of the Kurt fans.

In a way, while I like Cory Monteith/Finn, it was hard for many to swallow that the narrative push of Glee in season 1 was that Cory was the best male singer in the group. I think Cory is an underrated singer but even to me it stretched the imagination too much to imagine him being so much better than Puck, Kurt, Artie , etc.

So where Blaine as the "alpha gay" loses people isn't so much as him being so masculine or manly, (because Blaine is in some ways more campy and girly than Kurt) but in the perception that he is this incredibly talented performer in the Rachel "stratosphere." So the show works hard to compensate for his shortcomings and limitations in singing in order to perpetuate this persona for Blaine. However since many Kurt fans think Kurt is a more magnetic performer what the show tries to push on us creates resentment and disbelief. Not a dig on Darren, because he has his fans, but just trying to explain why what the show "attempts" doesn't work with some of us.

So Kurt calling Blaine the "alpha gay" who Kurt is always in his shadow makes for strange dynamics.

Outstanding points. That's absolutely where the dissonance is for me. The talents and qualities of the actors don't match up with the talents and qualities of the characters. They can make attractive actors look dorky and less attractive. A good singer can fake singing badly. But they can't make a clumsy dancer look really graceful, nor can they make him or her a better singer. They need to adjust canon to match the actors' abilities, like they did with Finn and dancing.

Speaking of Darren's campy portrayal: I find it almost offensive sometimes. It almost feels like he's mocking Kurt. It's a cheap way to portray gay, but not necessary with a good actor. I again refer to the actors, both gay and straight, who portrayed gay men in QAF. A couple were the Alpha gay type, a couple were campy, most were neither. Pretty much like RL.

Darren was for the most part fine with his portrayal of Blaine in Season 2. Then everything just went to hell in Season 3.

[brisallie]

You know what's my problem with this alpha gay issue is as buenos said they're portraying Blaine as he was a perfection, somone who's very talented and also attract not only boys but also girls- as Kurt said "Even Rachel wanted to make out with you"- but one thing is canon and other thing is reality or what people is perceiving and that's that Kurt is as (or more) talented as Blaine and despite they try to portary Kurt as the "effeminate" and less atracctive boy, there's a problem: the actor who portrays Kurt doesn't represent that anymore, maybe it was at the beginning but now So still don't understand why they're keeping this unequality between Klaine? Is a mandatory that one has to be the "male" and the other one the "female"?

[sahhar]

You know what's my problem with this alpha gay issue is as buenos said they're portraying Blaine as he was a perfection, somone who's very talented and also attract not only boys but also girls- as Kurt said "Even Rachel wanted to make out with you"- but one thing is canon and other thing is reality or what people is perceiving and that's that Kurt is as (or more) talented as Blaine and despite they try to portary Kurt as the "effeminate" and less atracctive boy, there's a problem: the actor who portrays Kurt doesn't represent that anymore, maybe it was at the beginning but now So still don't understand why they're keeping this unequality between Klaine? Is a mandatory that one has to be the "male" and the other one the "female"?

Especially since tons of girls will give their right arm to make out with Chris or even Kurt for that matter. Tumblr doesn't lie.

[mellama]

I've been thinking this effeminate generalization longer than Glee has excisted because it was related to my studies and what makes me severely annoyed in life general and sometimes in Glee is the fact that wether you're a man behaving more effeminate or a woman behaving expressively feminine it's considered as a negative or downgrading. Then masculine behaviour in men and women (in some context, but not always) is considered admirable and/or brave. I see this as a general society issue concerning equality and gender limitations in a heteronormative society.

I also feel US tv is funny in this retrospect, the most effeminate men and masculine female characters come from american television, even more than movies, yet giving them space to act on that personality trait is seen as an impossibility because advertizing and commercial pressures. Like in Glee the horrendous imbalance of showing physical sides of same-sex relationships.

In my definition Kurt isn't really that effeminate but more flamboyant and emotionally expressive, like someone here already has pointed out. His inequality in the show relates IMO to his being "obviously" gay and not having the need to "pass" as a straight guy, at which Blaine is not "excelling" that well either. Why this is an issue at all is just a sign of society which is still putting labels and forming it's opinions on what is considered "normal" and normative.

What I think I was going for was that I'm quite proud of Glee of creating a character like Kurt and in some points Blaine who despite huge conservative pressure are allowed to be themselves. OK, that sounded a bit like a PSA but I feel this show is subtley been doing that for quite a while. (Sometimes more successfully and also with less success.) The huge success in that front in my mind is the long arc of Kurt and Finns storylines, which got a lot of crap in the Season 1 for Kurt's "predatory" behaviour which I completly did not understand or see.

And I'm so glad that this issue of "gayness" was brought up in the last episode but like so many times in Glee it was left hanging in the air. But even then I saw Kurts line of Blaine being alpha-gay more relating to Kurts status as a lesser member of the group after Blaine took over than a sexual orientation remark, as was also pointed out here before me. I still don't know why it has to be alpha-GAY and not just MALE...POINTING to get the message through? Has the whole writing team taken advise from Cooper?

Anyway, sorry for babbling. This episode has left me in tatters.

I love this post, too. If this show helps portray how people label, and limit through labels and expectations of "normal," then I guess it's worth the aggravation. Statistically, normal means average. Most people would be at least somewhat insulted if they were described as average.

[fantastica]

I agree w/ Ivana's previous post that within klaine relationship kurt seems to have more of a dominant hand, athough he's not THAT dominant, just slightly. but outside their relationship blaine is portrayed in canon (and by certain fraction of the fandom) as more attractive, more talented, less obviously gay (he's always w/ hte "bros" and swooned by girls) so as he gets all the praises, all the solos, the school musical lead, lead in competitions, etc.

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